TheGabbaGhoul
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- Nov 24, 2018
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Wall jump feels incredibly unintuitive and clunky with how it's used. Make it easier, please.
RainbowStarry
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- Dec 20, 2024
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uuh... this game name is Rogue Princess and not peak. there no mountain to climb to
jkjk. but yeah, this game is really interestingWhile I find your previous points reasonable, this one here makes no sense to me. If it's practically a requirement to remap all the controls after downloading the game, that's an issue. Though I'm willing to give demos a pass since they're demos, it's doesn't change the fact it's an issue. How big of an issue it is, is another story. Though it should probably at least be mentioned in the game's description so people know ahead of time.
I might be reading this wrong, but how I'm reading it is, you're saying it's all on the player to do everything they possibly can to make the game easier except for using bugs and exploits. If they don't, any problems with the game is entirely the player's fault. The player is only allowed to call things issues if there's no possible way for the player to deal with it. Which is... what? Not to mention, you didn't say solve the issue, but make it easier. So for example, if there's a RNG check required to progress the storyline but it's 99% failure chance, and if you fail your save gets deleted. BUT since you can get an item that drops it to 90% failure chance, that means it's not an issue and players aren't allowed to complain about it. Because there's a thing they can do to "make it easier".
Also I did remap the controls for this game. The example I used in my comment was from using the base controls. Which are screwed.
Supreme Dumbass of Thyme
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My bad, I look at the images wrong. That said, I feel like just making a new sign would probably fix the issue rather than an entire phrasing change. I can see how the phrasing would be confusing, but it really depends on how you're reading it.
Supreme Dumbass of Thyme
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...You twisted my words a lot here, which is really annoying, but I'll explain a bit clearer. I'm not saying that you have no right to complain about any given mechanic or aspect of the game if you the player have control over how easy it is to deal with. What I said is that if you're going to bring it up as a flaw, make sure that the flaw's extent is entirely on the game and not you. If there were an RNG check for story progression, it would not be fair to complain about the 99% failure chance if there were an item to make it easier that you needed to get. If that item was the only one you could get and only brought your chances of success up to 10%, then you'd still be able to complain about the issue at that extent, because there's nothing that could be done to possibly make that easier or more fair from that point on. Basically, if the problem is at all exacerbated because of your own negligence or ignorance, then that part of the flaw is not fair to factor into your opinion of the game.
(As another example, going over two different examples in the same instance this time, it would not be justified to say that a game doesn't teach you how to play if there's a tutorial, but it would be justified to complain if the tutorial suddenly became unavailable if you passed a certain point by accident, you only had a few seconds to click "yes" before it vanished off of the screen, or you could only ever do it once and never review what it taught you.)
Now, a part of why I've been going so hard on this is because the controls are extremely subjective. The default controls felt fine to me, Dingus playtests their own games ON keyboard with default controls, and many other people outside of this thread in particular have expressed minimal issues with the base keybinds. So it's hard to take "the default controls are screwed" with any less than a few grains of salt. Not everyone's gonna be comfortable with every control scheme, so the only reasonable solution IS a way to change the keybinds. Conforming to something that you personally are used to as a default wouldn't fix anything, but instead it would just shift where the problem lies.
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I'm honestly not sure how I'm "twisting your words a lot here". Because the impression I got from your comment was you blaming everything on the player. I even straight up admitted your comment didn't make sense to me, and it might be cause I read it wrong.
Yes, that's reasonable. I understand that and never said the default controls should be changed into what's best for me. My issue is... I think I found a better way to word it? The base combinations, and how the tutorial teaches you to play. Specifically, these two aspects together.
I start the game, go into the tutorial, I read the signs and experiment. What it says is hold v to pickup and release to toss, hold down arrow and release v to double jump, etc. It does say keys are rebindable in options, but I figured they're default controls for a reason. So I enter the levels, first minute was meh, then I adjusted and got better. Pretty fun. Then I enter the next room and suddenly jumps needs 4 or 5 keys pressed/released at almost the same time, but it's doable. For one jump. Not for multiple jumps in a row unless I plan it all out beforehand and pray to 12 different gods that Athena actually goes downwards instead of forwards. Which obviously, did not work out.
So then, I remember the tutorial and open up the options to maybe rebind the keybinds. At that point, I notice and read the options Grab Throw and Up to grab. Up arrow to grab? Cool, pretty useful. Sucks that the tutorial didn't mention it, but alright. But GRAB THROW??? And it's on by default?? Also another player just mentioned throwing with the attack key, which is also very useful.
Now, if I switch from what the tutorial teaches me and just use up arrow, or turn off grab throw and use the attack key to throw... suddenly it goes from needing 5 keys at the same time for hard jumps to just 3. So yeah, at that point, the game was completely playable and there's no issues with the controls. Even managed to clear the spike fracture room in two attempts, mainly because my hp was low from previous rooms. Didn't even need to rebind the keys, but I swapped jump to Z anyways because it feels better to me.
So my point is, without rebinding keys or changing options, there's already 2 ways to move. One requiring 5 key combos and one requiring 3 key combos. And the tutorial leads you down the path of 5 keys combos, basically. Which is... frustrating.
I'm curious, did they trust the tutorial and step on the path of 5 key combos, or did they know about the up arrow?
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I double checked the tutorial, seems like I remembered "hold v to pickup and release to toss" wrong. The tutorial does say Attack to throw, but the issue is the Grab Throw setting is on by default, so letting go of V to press C just throws her before I even get to C. I guess at the time, I figured it was a typo and moved on?
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Has anyone managed to get on top of this building in the tutorial? The closest I got was where I circled, I doubled jumped, wall jumped, got lucky with catching Athena on the bounce up and managed a second double jump.
Supreme Dumbass of Thyme
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I meant that you read horrendously wrong, as well as implied that complaining about a game is nigh impossible by my standards, which is not what I was saying at all. I forgive it partially because you said you misread, but it still seemed a bit too far out to be as simple as a misunderstanding, which is why I was a bit more annoyed. But regardless, the point I was making is that any specific aspect that could be a flaw should be tested by the player before complaining about it to ensure that the issue is the game and not something they could have avoided. Hence the tutorial example: you can avoid going into a game blind if there's a tutorial available, but you can't avoid the way you get to the tutorial being unfair. It is not always the player's fault for any given inconvenience or flaw with the game, but the player should make sure that there's no feasible way for the issue to be blamed on them.
Some knew, some didn't. It was a about a 50/50 in that aspect. As for the sign...that probably should be told to Dingus, that's something everyone missed apparently.
Supreme Dumbass of Thyme
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I uhhh, don't think that's possible. Solid roof and wall here. Button just opens floor into tutorial's exit door.
Supreme Dumbass of Thyme
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Quick note: Dingus knows apparently. It's being fixed.
Supreme Dumbass of Thyme
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...Okay, hold on, I may be remembering a previous version of the tutorial, gimme a second.
I made it. Unfortunately, Athena did not make it.
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Supreme Dumbass of Thyme
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I see what you meant now, but chances are that was specifically designed to be unclimbable. Someone's gonna try though-
I uhhh, might have done an oopsie. So you know how the edge of the screen is climbable? I was gonna try to see if I could touch the sky, but turns out the right side screen in tutorial room is NOT climbable. And I'm now one with the void. I've fallen into the abyss beneath the map. You can't see it in the screenshot, but Athena's spazzing back and forth as she tries to follow me. She's really panicking.
Supreme Dumbass of Thyme
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...From now on, from this situation alone, I'm nicknaming you Icarus-