That will be wayy too subtle for some people. we need something like big red warning button.
Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.05 Dev] [Vénus Noire]
- Jan 7, 2021
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That would be fascinating, almost like dueling mind-control. You'd have to be on your toes to keep Alexia from getting so mind broken by being pulled in two directions that she leaps off the outer wall.
Well, that's a bit darker than what I was thinking XD ! I was just imagining her tricking Rowan and Alexia into some romantic dinners, using her succubus powers to dispel their grumpiness long enough to remember that they did genuinely love each other before all of... This. At least in the case of her marriage breaking down; interfering with the NTR routes would probably involve more disrupting the plans of the Twin responsible rather than marriage repair.
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Haha, that too. Mine was more the bad end version but yeah, I could totally see that.
Alexia, black lingerie version: Rowan, what are you doing in Jezera's room?
Rowan: Oh, X'zaratl asked me to come here.
Alexia: X'zaratal, where is Jezera?
X'zaratl: Oh, she's ... Indisposed. *Hides laxatives*
- May 8, 2017
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I have plans for events I like to call xzaratl NTRdetox - one for jezera/alexia route, one for Andras/alexia. Xzaratl in general is planned to be more reactive to what's going on with alexia and rowan than any other character. It's one of the reasons her introduction is so weighty - so more attention could be put into optional reaction events than a linear xzaratl progression plotline.
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- Apr 26, 2017
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- Aug 14, 2018
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Oh, that sounds pretty neat! One question, though...
What if the detox "fails"? Because I do like Alexia and Rowan together, but... I'm not inclined to give up Jezera for it, considering how it broadens Alexia's horizons. Will that lock off future X'Zaratl content, or will she still do her best to enjoy Alexia/Rowan so long as they're otherwise still together and happy? Alexia has to dip below 50 relationship to start the NTR route, but she doesn't have to stay there currently, nor does it prevent their relationship from recovering, so you can enjoy the best of both worlds. Though, I understand if that's more of a "It's a rare situation that's too much trouble to prevent from happening" thing rather than an "intended behavior" thing, and so not worth designing around.
(Also, was the "below 50 relationship" condition always there? If so, I totally forgot about it this time around...)
- Jan 7, 2021
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- May 13, 2018
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So, this has probably been talked about already back when the route was first released, but... Is it just me, or is Werden's route kind of the worst of all worlds? It seems like it could be the best for the Goddess, but nobody else.
The incompetent nobility, who starve the peasantry during the famine, allowed bandits to run unchecked, let the Duke become a Prothean puppet, and allowed you to spend a year conquering the kingdom, are the primary ones who escape. The peasants too unlucky to be born to blue blood or to serve them are left behind for a serious sacking, before being left to the wise guidance of Duke Raeve - a man who was a gutless coward before Jereza graced him with her presence, and who has the mind of a particularly bright turnip now. Patricia wasn't exactly a "people person", but she at least had administrative experience and a vision for how to redesign the city.
Duke Werden, the man who is quite literally responsible for the events of the game (had the Baron given Rowan his keep like he planned, the twins could never have kidnapped him like this) gets out pretty much consequence-free, the only "harm" done to him being that he's forced to bend his pride rather than condemn everyone to death. Marianne, the woman who is likely the one most responsible for the dismal state of kingdom, considering that she was the one making all the real decisions (including sending their only army to its death) also escapes, albeit not likely in a position of power anymore. Jacques, the best hope for change, dies, as does your staunchest non-demonic ally.
And at the end of it all, the hardliners have the best proof possible that any deviation from Solansia's order can't be tolerated; the greatest dirt general did betray them for demons, and their fiercest advocate, Werden, will be a primary figure in cleaning up your mess. How does this end with any chance for fixing any of the dire problems that plagued the kingdom before you set it on fire? It seems that any regime that arises from this will inevitably be a thoroughly reactionary one.
The route might be best for restoring Solansia's order, but I don't really see any way it could end up good, no matter how badly it screws with the Twins. Jacques still seems like the better choice for "good", even if it means you're going to have to do all the heavy lifting to tear down the Twin's new empire.
The incompetent nobility, who starve the peasantry during the famine, allowed bandits to run unchecked, let the Duke become a Prothean puppet, and allowed you to spend a year conquering the kingdom, are the primary ones who escape. The peasants too unlucky to be born to blue blood or to serve them are left behind for a serious sacking, before being left to the wise guidance of Duke Raeve - a man who was a gutless coward before Jereza graced him with her presence, and who has the mind of a particularly bright turnip now. Patricia wasn't exactly a "people person", but she at least had administrative experience and a vision for how to redesign the city.
Duke Werden, the man who is quite literally responsible for the events of the game (had the Baron given Rowan his keep like he planned, the twins could never have kidnapped him like this) gets out pretty much consequence-free, the only "harm" done to him being that he's forced to bend his pride rather than condemn everyone to death. Marianne, the woman who is likely the one most responsible for the dismal state of kingdom, considering that she was the one making all the real decisions (including sending their only army to its death) also escapes, albeit not likely in a position of power anymore. Jacques, the best hope for change, dies, as does your staunchest non-demonic ally.
And at the end of it all, the hardliners have the best proof possible that any deviation from Solansia's order can't be tolerated; the greatest dirt general did betray them for demons, and their fiercest advocate, Werden, will be a primary figure in cleaning up your mess. How does this end with any chance for fixing any of the dire problems that plagued the kingdom before you set it on fire? It seems that any regime that arises from this will inevitably be a thoroughly reactionary one.
The route might be best for restoring Solansia's order, but I don't really see any way it could end up good, no matter how badly it screws with the Twins. Jacques still seems like the better choice for "good", even if it means you're going to have to do all the heavy lifting to tear down the Twin's new empire.
Has one of the commenters who comented to much in this matter, its not just you, the Werden´s route, in the way it is, is a masochistic choice that relies in promises of what it might change in the future, its the one route Rowan gains nothing , the twins are set up has basicly untouchable and all knowing, and it ends with only having things taken away and effort wasted. Excluding things like saying "Rowan weakened the orcs by taking the noble woman", since its not an exclusive of the route, the only result it brings its, all potential allies Rowan made are either dead, worse than dead (Delane) , or hate him (Werden and his people).
It was commented before i think, unless it leads to some great stuff in the future, Werden's route is only there to show that in seeds of chaos, trying to be overly heroic will only leave you beaten and alone where even going lesser "evil" will leave the city in better hands, get you in better graces with the twins, and give you a new girl. You can even save Delane from her fate worse than death by simply not going with Werden and letting her go. Will we ever find her again has a allie? Probably not but she at least gets out of danger for now.
Now, i am sure that some interesting plot will come from werden's route..eventually , i do not know what will it be or if it will be the type of thing i personaly will prefer, but the writers have showed that they know what they are doing.
This isn't quite what I mean; I don't mind Rowan getting less than nothing out of this. A "Sacrifice everything for the Greater Good" option seems perfectly in theme with the game to me.
But...
Werden is, frankly, a total ass who will think nothing of the sacrifices needed to uphold Solansia's order, even if it means entombing everyone in cement made from the bones of peasants. He can win the war, sure. But what about what comes after? He's going to be one of the leading voices in answering that question, by virtue of leading the kingdom's nobility, and the man couldn't even make an allowance for a bonafide hero. I don't see that changing when said hero goes and proves his point.
If instead of Werden we were instead siding with, say, a very holy priest who was very compassionate to peasants but very opposed to demons - that would be different. It would be clear as to why this was the "Good" option, even if it still turned Rowan's life to ash to pursue; such a person would be embodying the positive aspects of Solansia's rule. But Werden demonstrates everything wrong with it, from what we've seen so far.
Plus, like, the one good thing from the sack was that all of the old nobility were dead, impoverished, or bending the knee. In Werden's route, that doesn't happen (except for titular nobles who no longer had holdings outside the city); all of them get out, despite the fact that they had already let the kingdom rot to this extent. They're running from the consequences of their own actions, while it's the people they leave behind who pay the price. Why, precisely, shouldn't we expect them to end up in the exact same place a decade after the Twin's fall? Heck, it only took them eight years to ruin the kingdom after Karnas died!
It feels like we're making a great sacrifice to save all of the worst things of the kingdom, is what stands out to me. It's the most defiant route, to be sure, but doing this just to spite the Twins just seems like... A remarkably bad idea. There were better people to save.
That.. is actualy a good point , and looking at it, its true enough, the people get quite literaly fucked while the ones that are responsible for the problem go on to be la resistance. Nothing good will come out of that
I just wish Rowan could made Werden suffer more... He got off easy dying too soon
If Rowan tells him he fucked his precious daughter Werden gets really agitated and later starts crying. I think it is quite miserable end for someone like him
I have made similar complaints in the past and I still hold the opinion Werden's route currently feels like it is either for those seeking maximum dramatic emotional angst or prizing an inability to compromise as if it was some kind of meaningful moral virtue. But I believe the devs said they will eventually rework and polish some aspects of the Rastedel sack, including making it possible for Werden's route to get better results during the sack, so for now I will instead focus on the arguments of why Werden's route could still be worthwhile.
First, like you yourself admitted, both Werden and Marianne are huge assets for any coming war, you may not like them as people, but you'd still be happy to see them come at first light on the fifth day. The horrors that are inflicted upon Rastedel are terrible, but these character surviving have the potential of helping prevent something even worse in the future.
Second, regarding the point about Werden's leadership after the war, the man is old and ill, he still has the spirit to give it all in one more war, but I don't see him living to perpetuate his rigid ideals. And even then, I think that Rowan managed to get to him, even if just a little bit. Even if he is obsessed with order, by now I think he must be realizing an order ruled by a decadent nobility is unsustainable, I definitely expect him to lead the resistance with an iron fist and trim the fat with any nobility that doesn't recognize their duty to their people.
Third, even if most likely Werden's resistance will be holed up in some mountainous duchy, that is still one less place the Twins' corruption will not touch, rather than them taking the entire kingdom unopposed.
Of course, like I said at the start, I still think Werden's route isn't very attractive even for what it is, if I want to do the most good, a well administered Jacques or controlled Patricia routes, at least for the time being, seem to have the potential of letting Rowan smoothen the transition as much as possible and reduce the total suffering.
I think if nothing else, Werden's route should have more symbolic victories, even if those don't imediatelly add to more than what you can get from the other routes. I think something analogous to "the girl in red" from Schindler's list would work amazingly with the themes at play (as in, regardless of how well the sack goes, "she" would only not be there if Rowan did Werden's route).