Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.05 Dev] [Vénus Noire]

[rivon]

Whoever compiles ever single post from the last FIVE FUCKING YEARS saying we'll obviously abandond this game AT ANY MOMENT NOW, I will make your self-insert get cucked by Andras in a one-off map event.

Just a few lines of reference. No art. You don't get sommy for this.

No no! Sommelier absolutely HAVE to illustrate those. You can't leave us hanging over there.

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

While I agree that the slow rate of story progress combined with the small team size opens the game up more to the always present possibility of “shit happens,” I’m curious if anyone’s actually aware of any large scale smut games that have had a more organized, more efficient team outside of the Japanese market? Or for that matter, any smut games that have produced more content in a similar period of time?

I’m honestly curious, I don’t play a lot of western porn games, and a lot of people accuse this game of a lack of progress. I understand most of them are just looking at the version number and making assumptions based on that, and I already granted that main story progression is really slow, but in terms of the amount of work being done and the content that’s been added, I’m actually curious what western porn games are out there that compare favorably.

Medieval fantasy, heavy on dialogue choices and with 2D art instead of 3D renders? None come to my mind.

 

[Deleted member 3378174]

Oh, you deceitful cretin you shall not deceive us!

Stay strong my brothers and sisters in faith, as the good book says: "The devil is a temptress and it will try to lead you astray."

Fortunately for us I have caught this devil red-handed...!



Look at the evil creature known as Rein as he gleefully milks his supporters...what the fuck am I writing? lol

I was just screwing around because no one posted a link for the new update and you people went on a holy war against Patreon porn developers lol

 

[Nightmare800]

Whoever compiles ever single post from the last FIVE FUCKING YEARS saying we'll obviously abandond this game AT ANY MOMENT NOW, I will make your self-insert get cucked by Andras in a one-off map event.

Just a few lines of reference. No art. You don't get sommy for this.

I didn't say you abandoned it, I'm saying that from the look of things you are taking your supporters for a ride in a worst way possible and that abandoning it is how it will surely end. Nice grammar by the way, I'd expect more eloquent language skills from someone who writes for living.

Well I agree, I bought this game on steam randomly and then supported them on patreon to make development bc I wanted this game to finish fast (how foolish I am ) but tho I love the quality and all updates, the content is too little for the amount of support they get. So I quitted the patreon and support other smaller developers on patreon.

Btw can anyone tell me when they will share new content link ? or update steam version?

Jesus they are actually SELLING this game on top of taking patreon monies for FIVE years and still haven't attained anything resembling a half completed product? Man if they were as obsessed with delivering as they are with milking their audience this game would have been completed in three years, no biggie.

 

[T51bwinterized]

same here. but based on what I read here, we're in the minority. People love to hate Andras. I don't care about him myself, but can't wait to see more major corruption events for Alexia, especially if he is the focus there

btw is there any chance we get to know more about the original Demon Lord? Andras and Jezara's father? or their mother? I would like to at least know how much each of them represents their father's methods. was he a cunning schemer? A ruthless conqueror? or a mix of both?

There's going to be more details within reason, especially as Rowan meets more characters related to the war.

I love you but I respectfully disagree.

The best NTR route is Greyhide, because he is adorable and deserves to have 2 new cockleeves/cumdumps.

That doesn't really much count as NTR, does it? Everyone is part of that fun.

Would just like to point out it's actually better to not let Cliohna and Shaya dominate you, turning the tables on them to make you an equal has better overall results. 100% with Shaya and definitely will with Cliohna too it may be important later on.

Depends on your goals and what kind of Rowan you want. But getting enthralled by the castle's spymaster if you want to plot a rebellion is perhaps not wise.

In times like these when the update has dropped and the thread is barren of links I ask myself...

View attachment 1332137

Where Booba indeed

You are right. If we look at things from the perspective of 'what actions can strenghthen Rowan's position and give him advantage for eventual future rebellion' then it's definitely worth to stand on even grounds with Cliohna and Shaya. In my previous message I just wanted to point out that Jezera as a castle spymaster is ignorant of these matters. She probably doesn't even know that both Cliohna and Shaya play their own game with Rowan and doesn't intervene in their efforts to subdue Rowan.

Jezera may not know everything, but she definitely isn't that dumb. And in the Shaya case, she does genuinely trust her (for reasons discussed in the plot).

What, you think I know the exact progress rate of every smut VN around? What I know is that this is a classic case of Patreon milking that has unfortunately became a staple of smut games nowadays unless they are japanese titles. I concede the art style is pretty good but for a VN to move to 0.2 in FIVE years stinks of either greed or laziness, or both. I can guarantee you that if patreon would work on the basis of pay-per-update (say six bucks per one tenth of the game) this wouldn't have happened.

Sure, it may sound awful rude for me to say this, considering I got the game for free, but this abhorrent practice of lazy assholes milking their patrons for meagre updates with endless development cycles is something I cannot simply agree with. To me it's betrayal of their trust and it's ultimately causing the donators to be cynical about donating at all, which hurts people who actually deserve it.

Hem hem. The rest aside, a clarifying detail. We're on build 2.65. which means we're on our 65th full build after the prologue. Not our second.

I think a big part of the problem with SoC is that the development team is somewhat unprofessional in both capability and attitude. They don't know how to design a video game. They may have the technical and artistic skill but they are completely lacking in an understanding of how to put that ability together in a coherent and functional way. As evidenced by the fact that progress is basically nonexistent in terms of the ongoing structure of the game, and the presence of so many scenes with no completed artwork, and the semi-regular reworking of systems that never seem to actually get finished. This should be expected as most of the people who work via patreon are amateurs and it shouldn't be held against them. However SoC would greatly benefit from bringing on a staffer with actual experience in game design, the only problem there is to bring someone like that in you would have to match salary and an experienced game designer would eat up half of their income.

Of course the catch 22 of them going the standard route of designing the game before development starts and then sticking to that design document would likely lead to a project lacking in imagination since there is always a certain level of things changing as they go and that usually has an even greater impact on people who are not as well versed in game development. SoC is, for better and worse, an amateur project. Expect things to take a while and that doesn't necessarily mean we're getting milked, but at the same time patreon more or less encourages slow development of content.

We've never been shy about the fact that yes are original pretentions didn't quite meet our vision. As time as has gone on, different team members have come in to work on different aspects and rework them. It's not a scam, it's a consequence of ground up development based on excitement about a project instead of capital.

But, I think you're too harsh by a bit on our ability to design. Rein has been handling our systems redesign and he's quite talented. I think the amount of complaining about game systems will drop in a substantial way (though definitely not entirely, we didn't change everything).

 

[Nightmare800]

This is most certainly not a "classic case of Patreon milking". Ignoring the overall quality of presentation that is lacking in most of the titles here, the game has gone through several changes in story, art and is currently going through an overhaul of the mechanics which is significant since this is NOT just a VN.

I understand not being happy with the amount of progress but the fact is that even the development of small indie games can stretch on for years and looking at the consistency of the devs in recent years i really don't think that they are just lazy .
Also, i think they are working simultaneously on a second game if i'm not mistaken .

With the money they are raking in they could easily employ professionals or at least part-timers yet apparently, profit is more important. The fact I'm not the first person to raise this concern and the way the developer reacted tells me my arguments aren't just some idle fancies of mine.

 

[T51bwinterized]

With the money they are raking in they could easily employ professionals or at least part-timers yet apparently, profit is more important. The fact I'm not the first person to raise this concern and the way the developer reacted tells me my arguments aren't just some idle fancies of mine.

Question. Have you played the game before?

 

[Nightmare800]

Hem hem. The rest aside, a clarifying detail. We're on build 2.65. which means we're on our 65th full build after the prologue. Not our second.

So how far along is the project in terms of development currently? A mere rough percentage approximation would suffice. Number of updates means nothing because by that logic, mount and blade bannerlord is already a completed game. But when an update amounts to three bugfixes and an updated texture a month, bugfixes for the bugs you have introduced with the last patch no less (not saying this is the case here), the end result is basically, and excuse my language here, fuck all for years to an end.

Question. Have you played the game before?

No, I have not, but the development cycle lenght and version numberthis project is currently sitting on tells me a lot. You will have to excuse my cynicism, this act of stringing along donators with breadcrumbs for updates is not only all too common, but shows a deep flaw in what patreon is supposed to be. The fact is a lot of developers just mooch off their patrons doing nothing but throwing in a tiny occasional update, merely to keep up hope for something that they have no intention of delivering. In fact vast majority of patreon crowd funded games end up like this.

 

[Nightmare800]

Whoever compiles ever single post from the last FIVE FUCKING YEARS saying we'll obviously abandond this game AT ANY MOMENT NOW, I will make your self-insert get cucked by Andras in a one-off map event.

Just a few lines of reference. No art. You don't get sommy for this.

I didn't say you abandoned it, I'm saying that from the look of things you are taking your supporters for a ride in a worst way possible and that abandoning it is how it will surely end. Nice grammar by the way, I'd expect more eloquent typing skills from someone who basically types for living.

 

[Mount Parnassus]

I believe the game's problem is having to many paths. Maybe it should be more focused in the main plots. However, I can't complain, as Seeds of Chaos is still the best fantasy game nowadays. The writting is exceptional and the character's design is the best I've ever seen. What, ironically, just makes me more anxious to seeing the main story evolve and frustrated with it's slow progress.

 

[T51bwinterized]

So how far along is the project in terms of development currently? A mere rough percentage approximation would suffice. Number of updates means nothing because by that logic, mount and blade bannerlord is already a completed game. But when an update amounts to three bugfixes and an updated texture a month, bugfixes for the bugs you have introduced with the last patch no less (not saying this is the case here), the end result is basically, and excuse my language here, fuck all for years to an end.

Difficult to say. The first game is about 85%-90% complete, but we realized our scope was too big so we're doing sequels. The main plot is 99% done and ready to move into the sequel, but we're taking out time to give the sidecast lavish plotlines.

In terms of completed content:

More then 1.2 million words, which is a lot and longer then many entire novel series.

At present about 1000 unique CGs or substantial variants in our very detailed style.

Haven't kept count of the animations but right now there's over 50.

Backgrounds is somewhere close to 100.

This is a herculean amount, and very few other games in our genre have a similar size and scale.

I've played Our Red String by EvaKiss. Good game. Probably has about 200 CGs. In a much lower detail and quality. Granted, we've been working longer on it, but we (Read: Sommy and his crew) produce more then 200 a year.

 

[Nightmare800]

Difficult to say. The first game is about 85%-90% complete, but we realized our scope was too big so we're doing sequels. The main plot is 99% done and ready to move into the sequel, but we're taking out time to give the sidecast lavish plotlines.

In terms of completed content:

More then 1.2 million words, which is a lot and longer then many entire novel series.

At present about 1000 unique CGs or substantial variants in our very detailed style.

Haven't kept count of the animations but right now there's over 50.

Backgrounds is somewhere close to 100.

This is a herculean amount, and very few other games in our genre have a similar size and scale.

I've played Our Red String by EvaKiss. Good game. Probably has about 200 CGs. In a much lower detail and quality. Granted, she's been working longer on it, but we (Read: Sommy and his crew) produce more then 200 a year.

Interesting, what's up with the version number then? Is it intentionally misleading because frankly, sitting on what you call version 0.265 after FIVE years when the game is almost actually done is something that will invite the exact kind of cynism I have shown towards your game.

Nevertheless if that is the case then I take back what I said apologize for my accusations, I hope you will understand that my claims are not fueled by malice but merely by exhaustion of how these patreon projects usually end up. In fact the behavior I have talked about is rampant everywhere, not just patreon but also on steam.

 

[Rein]

I'm saying that from the look of things you are taking your supporters for a ride in a worst way possible and that abandoning it is how it will surely end.

This time of the year I suppose.

Everyone who think they can make a better game is invited to try.

 

[T51bwinterized]

Wait, I checked with design and Mechanics and they said I'm an idiot.

Actual answer:

The game's technical current release is 0.2.65. the 0 refers to finished or not finished. A 1 means finished and a 0eans unfinished. The 2 refers to major technical build. And the 65 refers to patch within the major tech build.

We've been mostly focused on art and writing content and haven't done a tech build inawhile. This the 0.2.65

I am being informed our upcoming major rework will be classified as 0.3.0

 

[RC-1138 Boss]

No, I have not, but the development cycle lenght and version numberthis project is currently sitting on tells me a lot. You will have to excuse my cynicism, this act of stringing along donators with breadcrumbs for updates is not only all too common, but shows a deep flaw in what patreon is supposed to be. The fact is a lot of developers just mooch off their patrons doing nothing but throwing in a tiny occasional update, merely to keep up hope for something that they have no intention of delivering. In fact vast majority of patreon crowd funded games end up like this.

Then next time actually try to inform yourself about the game and its developers before acusing them of milking.

Also your facts are BS. Most game here are done as a part time project, just a small minority get to receive dozens of thousands of euros/dolars as support per month while delivering regular updates and becoming a full time project.

If what you claim were true there would be hundreds of Icstors around here, delivering one update every year and half while getting more than 20 thousand per month.

 

[T51bwinterized]

Citation:

 

[T51bwinterized]

Then next time actually try to inform yourself about the game and its developers before acusing them of milking.

Also your facts are BS. Most game here are done as a part time project, just a small minority get to receive dozens of thousands of euros/dolars as support per month while delivering regular updates and becoming a full time project.

If what you claim were true there would be hundreds of Icstors around here, delivering one update every year and half while getting more than 20 thousand per month.

He dropped it. Let it go. Mistaken assumptions. It happens.

 

[andybc]

I wouldn't say they don't work hard enough, or that it is a scam. They are investing a lot of time into reworks and rewriting, which won't result in tangible results now, but would be worth the investment in the long run. If they wanted to abandon the game, why rework everything? My only criticism with the devs is maybe more frequent dev updates on patreon, such as future plans, screenshots system reworks, more detailed wip, etc. It's hard to tell what the future vision of the devs are sometimes.

 

[Nightmare800]

Then next time actually try to inform yourself about the game and its developers before acusing them of milking.

Also your facts are BS. Most game here are done as a part time project, just a small minority get to receive dozens of thousands of euros/dolars as support per month while delivering regular updates and becoming a full time project.

If what you claim were true there would be hundreds of Icstors around here, delivering one update every year and half while getting more than 20 thousand per month.

I've seen more titles than I care to remember meet the exact fate I was mentioning, patreon itself is rife with such garbage, so excuse me if I ignore your suggestion because an exception doesn't disprove a rule.

 

[Oriandu]

There's going to be more details within reason, especially as Rowan meets more characters related to the war.



That doesn't really much count as NTR, does it? Everyone is part of that fun.



Depends on your goals and what kind of Rowan you want. But getting enthralled by the castle's spymaster if you want to plot a rebellion is perhaps not wise.



Where Booba indeed



Jezera may not know everything, but she definitely isn't that dumb. And in the Shaya case, she does genuinely trust her (for reasons discussed in the plot).



Hem hem. The rest aside, a clarifying detail. We're on build 2.65. which means we're on our 65th full build after the prologue. Not our second.



We've never been shy about the fact that yes are original pretentions didn't quite meet our vision. As time as has gone on, different team members have come in to work on different aspects and rework them. It's not a scam, it's a consequence of ground up development based on excitement about a project instead of capital.

But, I think you're too harsh by a bit on our ability to design. Rein has been handling our systems redesign and he's quite talented. I think the amount of complaining about game systems will drop in a substantial way (though definitely not entirely, we didn't change everything).

No, I'm not too harsh on your ability to design. I come from a game development background, it crushed my desire to work in game development out of me. It was dreadful, but my armchair is an informed armchair. Based on the product you put out month to month your design is a mess. There's little to no coherent direction or focus which is the difference between designing a game and making one. If you were working on a properly designed game there would be no scenes without artwork, there would be no asking what patreons want you to focus on next, there would be no mechanics that need major changes, there would be no going back and changing certain scenes because they don't fit with what you're making anymore. Game design is the tempered form of a video game. It also means you typically have a very specific route to follow because you're dealing with a detailed design document that is typically hundreds, sometimes thousands of pages long dictating what needs to be done to build the game. Proper game design is knowing what you're going to build before a single line of code is even typed.