perles75

Active Member
May 16, 2020
852
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Last time I played the game was quite a long time ago, maybe 1 and a half years or 2. I wanted to see how it had evolved so I played it again from beginning to end.

First of all, the general structure is definitely improved: it is more cohesive and it makes more sense as a story.
There is a bit of an empty space in the mid-late game between the takeover of the orcs and the final part when you go back to Rastedel for the second time and all the conquest arc: I finished the orcs pretty quickly so several weeks passed and I was afraid I had missed something to trigger the final part, but it was just waiting for the right week in the end.
I guess the still missing parts will help filling the void a bit (I'm particularly curious to see what the role of the fae will be, the intro was intriguing so I was disappointed that it led nowhere).

The rather unique mix of management, exploration and story, which attracted me to the game the first time, is still well done: not too deep but enough to keep you busy and provide variety. Also here, I finished the research and the buildings towards the three quarters of the game so it dried up a bit in the end, but I guess that's just a buffer to accommodate the less management-inclined players. Cla-Min's shop is still underused, though.
By the way, the devs must be commended for the random events, both on the map and in the castle, there is a nice variety and you meet various minor characters that tickled my curiosity and I would have been glad to meet again.

Something I was quite impressed of is how much the game gives you the possibility to shape the Rowan you're interested in playing: I played him as a sort-of closeted guy that starts in love with his wife but then discovers progressively he's interested in other things, becoming progressively more distant from Alexia, indulging more in his desires and becoming more corrupt and prone to power-play (in both directions), using the occasional straight sex for advantage... and it worked really well, it felt very natural, not forced at all.

The characters are globally pretty good (the cast is huge) and, like I remember, nicely sculpted and interesting -especially the main ones, just with more events (those who have them). There are some slight disappointments (e.g. Greyhide's story ends somehow abruptly without any followup or recurring events) and one might like a bit more or a bit less this or that character but in general it works. I'm looking forward to the development of the stories for those who haven't got that already.
Alexia is a bit of an accessory (at least in my case, where for story reasons I limited the contact between Rowan and Alexia as much as I could), but you can see that she "makes sense".
A suggestion: the work events are nice but, towards the end, I didn't know if I had exhausted all of them for a specific job; as the weekly Alexia events are for character building but mostly to collect scenes, it could be nice to have a counter that tells you how many you have unlocked for a specific job, so you can eventually move on.

Most of the things I would like to see are either in the plans or are probably due to limitations of what you can put in (for example, there are plenty of recurring things with Cla-Min but none involving her brother -but I guess it's not much of a priority), so it definitely looks like they did a good job with their plan of working through the to-do list in a more planned fashion and with a systematic approach.
 

Heliophorus

Member
Jan 6, 2018
316
376
Even in a scenario where Delane doesn’t escape, Tarish seems like the weakest leader candidate with the least respect. She may be a manipulator, but she’s hardly a master of the craft, so without direct support from Rowan or the twins, it does feel like she’s the leader under whom the main body of the orc army is most likely to mutiny.
Btw, I think your map needs update, some things seem to be different now.
Also, just noticed that the scene list/walktrough thing seems to be outdated too, sadly.
 

Jynx_lucky_j

Member
May 1, 2021
388
944
Are the fae scenes still blacked out or not?
The fae scenes (apart from their arrival) are currently removed from the game pending an upcoming complete rewrite of their scenes. Their early scenes were written at a time when the dev team wasn't certain where the story was going. The rewrites should integrate them better into the story and give them more plot relevance.

The characters are globally pretty good (the cast is huge) and, like I remember, nicely sculpted and interesting -especially the main ones, just with more events (those who have them). There are some slight disappointments (e.g. Greyhide's story ends somehow abruptly without any followup or recurring events) and one might like a bit more or a bit less this or that character but in general it works. I'm looking forward to the development of the stories for those who haven't got that already.
Alexia is a bit of an accessory (at least in my case, where for story reasons I limited the contact between Rowan and Alexia as much as I could), but you can see that she "makes sense".
A suggestion: the work events are nice but, towards the end, I didn't know if I had exhausted all of them for a specific job; as the weekly Alexia events are for character building but mostly to collect scenes, it could be nice to have a counter that tells you how many you have unlocked for a specific job, so you can eventually move on.

Most of the things I would like to see are either in the plans or are probably due to limitations of what you can put in (for example, there are plenty of recurring things with Cla-Min but none involving her brother -but I guess it's not much of a priority), so it definitely looks like they did a good job with their plan of working through the to-do list in a more planned fashion and with a systematic approach.
Just a note if you were not yet aware, the the dev team is currently in the process of writing arcs for each of the major characters, and they have said that they want to give Alexia a separate arc for each of her potential jobs. You can check out their progress on their development road map here:
1647140109201.png
Highlighted items are things they are currently focused on, crossed-out items are completed. Please note: as of the last update Cla-min's arc is now complete.
 

mehGusta

Member
Aug 28, 2017
344
496
TL/DR
The major way the plot diverges in Rastdel concerns which characters live and die, who ends up running the city, and which sections of the city are left....unmolested.

It is reasonable to think who is left in charge will have major ramifications later- they just haven't been borne out yet.
The specific outcomes of how the the battle went and the city is are very minor considerations at this point- but there is some code for it.


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Moving to talking about how things diverge.

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it's a shame that there isn't a way for rowan to not get the short stick in rastedel. and i don't mean the heroic "save everyone" mentality. i think there should be choice to not rebel against the twins before the siege, because as the great tactican that rowan is supposed to be, he sure tries to fight a lost cause. the chaos forces will slaughter and enact brutality, so instead of making it worse, just pick the fights worth fighting.
so far the werden route is the best one, even though it won't be my true playthrough. you try to trick the twins, you get punished for it. that's cool. but there is no option to appease the twins. choosing any other route besides werden seem to be inconsequential.

also i think the orcciad has a "canon" route, being the "help tarish" one. but i think lots of fans want to see the delane route continue. so it's gonna split into "help tarish and serve the twins, or start your own scheme" and "help delane, as the righteous hero you are". i guess the writers still gonna keep ulcro and batri stories in check, but won't spend too much time on them.
 
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Jynx_lucky_j

Member
May 1, 2021
388
944
it's a shame that there isn't a way for rowan to not get the short stick in rastedel. and i don't mean the heroic "save everyone" mentality. i think there should be choice to not rebel against the twins before the siege, because as the great tactican that rowan is supposed to be, he sure tries to fight a lost cause. the chaos forces will slaughter and enact brutality, so instead of making it worse, just pick the fights worth fighting.
so far the werden route is the best one, even though it won't be my true playthrough. you try to trick the twins, you get punished for it. that's cool. but there is no option to appease the twins. choosing any other route besides werden seem to be inconsequential.

also i think the orcciad has a "canon" route, being the "help tarish" one. but i think lots of fans want to see the delane route continue. so it's gonna split into "help tarish and serve the twins, or start your own scheme" and "help delane, as the righteous hero you are". i guess the writers still gonna keep ulcro and batri stories in check, but won't spend too much time on them.
I think that the Jaques and Patricia paths are the "not rebelling against the twins" paths. Apart from possibly choosing to control Patricia's mind yourself, you are ostensibly doing exactly what the twins asked you to do. The plan was going perfectly until the Baron commits suicide which was something that there was know way to predict would happen therefore no chance to stop it. The barons death then causes an unstoppable chain reaction that throws the whole city in chaos. The end result of going from that state of chaos to managing to take control of about half the city in just one night is a direct result of of his great tactics and choosing his battles. If anyone else was trying to restore order it would have likely taken a week to reach the same point. If given a couple more days he would likely have had everything under control again. Jezera even acknowledges that Rowan did the best that could possibly be done given the circumstances. And the twin could have easily given him that extra time to fully establish control again. Just march their troops in and occupy the city and tell Rowan he has 2 days to get it under control or they'll do it their way. But the thing is they WANTED to sack the city. Going through with this plan at all was already a concession to Rowan in the first place. In the end they decide to split the difference and only sack the areas that Rowan doesn't currently control.
 

GroupSession

Member
Sep 28, 2021
235
318
Just reached the end and i gotta say. That cultist has got one of the best characters designs I've ever seen here that plus the goofy personality reminds me of Toby/obito before his reveal
 
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Heliophorus

Member
Jan 6, 2018
316
376
Also, thanks to whoever made the scene replay mode. This should be part of the game already.

Also, would like to see more of that slave of Andra's - Zahira. See her backstory maybe. And maybe have Rowan steal her from Andras eventually.
 
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Heliophorus

Member
Jan 6, 2018
316
376
and we can speculate which actions best serve which route, while I see Ulcro possibly worth turning as a likely ally I'd rather not take the chance plus I like Delane(she's in my top 5 ) so I'm biased XD.
I might try to keep her. Delane, Helayna, and Patricia so far are in my top 5 too. I have a noblewoman fetish.
 
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perles75

Active Member
May 16, 2020
852
1,306
Just a note if you were not yet aware, the the dev team is currently in the process of writing arcs for each of the major characters, and they have said that they want to give Alexia a separate arc for each of her potential jobs. You can check out their progress on their development road map here:
View attachment 1701084
Highlighted items are things they are currently focused on, crossed-out items are completed. Please note: as of the last update Cla-min's arc is now complete.
thanks! I remembered that roadmap but I couldn't find it in the thread (I didn't look too much back tbh). I knew they had the plan to make the character arcs but I didn't know it also involved Alexia, Jezera and Andras, interesting!

As I mentioned, I did find Greyhide's (one of the completed ones) a bit abrupt, in the sense that I finished it quite early and so there was a large part of the game where I had no contact whatsoever with him except for random events, which felt a bit strange after all the things that happened. I suppose that, when all the paths are active, you'll feel this discrepancy less because there will always be something new happening, but maybe it could be a good idea if the various parts of each story are more spaced across part 1.
 

Ano85

Member
May 21, 2018
221
871
I mean, Greyhide’s a bit passive (not in bed), and I’m not sure how ambitious Skordred is, but I’d say both of them could probably crush Rowan’s head in one hand if they wanted to.

Not to mention that you basically just described Andras, other than the fact that he’s bi. Of course he doesn’t really see Rowan as a romantic partner so much as a fleshlight.
Greyhide is passive through and through. The only time he isn't is when you explicitly select him to not be himself in one of the threesome scenes.

The reason why there's an illusion around him being active is because Rowan in his scenes automatically tries to "serve him". He's treated merely as a character with a big dick instead of a the lovesick minotaur he is, and that's the writers' fault, unless this is all planned to be a source of conflict later on. And I mean a conflict specifically between him and Rowan.

I still remember the scene where Rowan walks into his forge, sucks him off and then leaves, and Greyhide is both happy that someone seems to care for him and also disappointed because he couldn't do anything for them.

On the other hand, Alexia leads Greyhide effortlessly, especially in their job events together and he's grateful for it.

Conclusion:
Rowan is a cuck, and Alexia did more to help Greyhide try and repair his distorted, confused self-image than Rowan ever have.
 

monk_56

Active Member
Apr 26, 2021
654
2,647
Ya think Rowan will find a way to give Shaya her old face back?
Wondered that myself. It would be deeply symbolic as a tone shift on the Shaya route.

Prior to encountering the chaos priest character post Rastdel I would have said it might organically happen over time if she started strongly believing her new look wasn't the real her- and accepting her old look as Rowan encouraged her to accept herself for herself. Most of the plots concerning form changing and chaos magic require the person changed to deeply believe their body should be a certain way it isn't- and become undone quite quickly after the magic was no longer being applied.
 
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Jynx_lucky_j

Member
May 1, 2021
388
944
well hopefully during one of the paths i hope you can take over their kingdom by killing that asshole brother and by either enslaving the sister or by seducing her
While I would be surprised if that was an option by the end of the game, but I think it would lead to a "bad end." Jezera is clever and savvy enough to play along like a she's a good pet as long as you have the advantage, but she would turn the table at the first opportunity. Rowan would have to remain hyper vigilant and always be monitoring her for as long as he kept her around.

Ya think Rowan will find a way to give Shaya her old face back?
Maybe near the end of the story, but certainly not before she is truly ready to turn on Jezera. Changing her face would be a clear sign that she is no longer fully under Jezera's sway and alert Jezera that there is something going on. Funny enough I suspect Shaya would be more accepting of the transformation if Jezera acknowledged that Shaya made a big sacrifice for her and didn't just treat her as a tool/toy.

Wondered that myself. It would be deeply symbolic as a tone shift on the Shaya route.

Prior to encountering the chaos priest character post Rastdel I would have said it might organically happen over time if she started strongly believing her new look wasn't the real her- and accepting her old look as Rowan encouraged her to accept herself for herself. Most of the plots concerning form changing and chaos magic require the person changed to deeply believe their body should be a certain way it isn't- and become undone quite quickly after the magic was no longer being applied.
It is worth mentioning that Nasim mentions that the traditional manner of making permanent trasmutations is by investing a great deal of magic to create a "seed of chaos" (oh hello title, what are you doing here?) inside the subject that continually fuels the magic of the transmutation. This is likely what happened in Shaya's magic pool. Nasims breakthrough field of study of altering the subjects mental image of themselves as a alternate method of making the changes permanent is still far from perfected as we can see from the his test subject in the dungeons.

The chaos priest's magic we don't know enough about to draw any conclusions. However I would suspect that it isn't as limited as it may initially seem. I suspect there was at very least some prep work involved in what he does do Marianne. Considering that if Delane is the victim instead he doesn't just cast a different transmutation spell, but uses some kind of artifact instead, suggests to me that he can't just change whoever he wants, however he wants, whenever he wants.
 
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perles75

Active Member
May 16, 2020
852
1,306
well hopefully during one of the paths i hope you can take over their kingdom by killing that asshole brother and by either enslaving the sister or by seducing her
the sentence could work similarly well by inverting the words 'brother' and 'sister' )
 

monk_56

Active Member
Apr 26, 2021
654
2,647
While I would be surprised if that was an option by the end of the game, but I think it would lead to a "bad end." Jezera is clever and savvy enough to play along like a she's a good pet as long as you have the advantage, but she would turn the table at the first opportunity. Rowan would have to remain hyper vigilant and always be monitoring her for as long as he kept her around.


Maybe near the end of the story, but certainly not before she is truly ready to turn on Jezera. Changing her face would be a clear sign that she is no longer fully under Jezera's sway and alert Jezera that there is something going on. Funny enough I suspect Shaya would be more accepting of the transformation if Jezera acknowledged that Shaya made a big sacrifice for her and didn't just treat her as a tool/toy.


It is worth mentioning that Nasim mentions that the traditional manner of making permanent trasmutations is by investing a great deal of magic to create a "seed of chaos" (oh hello title, what are you doing here?) inside the subject that continually fuels the magic of the transmutation. This is likely what happened in Shaya's magic pool. Nasims breakthrough field of study of altering the subjects mental image of themselves as a alternate method of making the changes permanent is still far from perfected as we can see from the his test subject in the dungeons.

The chaos priest's magic we don't know enough about to draw any conclusions. However I would suspect that it isn't as limited as it may initially seem. I suspect there was at very least some prep work involved in what he does do Marianne. Considering that if Delane is the victim instead he doesn't just cast a different transmutation spell, but uses some kind of artifact instead, suggests to me that he can't just change whoever he wants, however he wants, whenever he wants.
You make some good points about the meta-magic. There is just an incredible amount to speculate concerning the subject. I wonder, which plot arc will end up answering some of these major questions first. I'm betting on the post Rastdel epilogue resolutions- guess we will find out.
 
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