Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.05 Dev] [Vénus Noire]

[Oriandu]

I did not understand this. Are you saying based on the perspective of the image Rowan looks physically small: meaning short and without muscles?

Usually when someone is referred to as such it's less about being short and lacking muscles and being feminine. Having not seen the image myself, it may have something to do with Rowan looking more slender and having softer features. Dunno, also don't really care considering the word "twink" was used as a descriptor. Typically such language leads me to ignore the opinion of the person using it.

 

[NewTricks]

Rowan's build is something of a delicate subject because he has to kind of be a cipher that would be found attractive as both a dominant and submissive straight/gay love interest. This means that he has a tendency to be drawn as Joe Average compared to more exaggerated characters around him. Alexia suffers from much of the same aesthetic choices, which makes them appear to be familiarly related. Well, they both came from the same small village so they are probably at least 2nd cousins.

 

[monk_56]

He is so fucking tiny and boring looking. With the exception of a hand full of scenes that portray him more positvely- the only times his scenes are consistently hot is when he is paired up with some miniature race like goblins or elves. Most of men in the game make him look like Pee-Wee fuckin' Herman. I don't see why he needs to be small in his hetero scenes with his wife- why can't he look good? It is to serve the cuckold plots? Fuck....leave that shit for him getting topped or fem-dom or whatever.

Its the main protagonist- but there is so little in the game that actually feels like "winning" unless you like losing, getting shit on, being degraded, being small and weak, and being a sub.

Will we ever get content that feels like an actual overlord path? Where he feels powerful? In control? Large? Virile? Dominant?

Or will he be this pedestrian, undersized, compromised, cucked bitch until the end of game 3? My wallet demands to know.

 

[NewTricks]

Rowan's fragility fits the story. He was basically the party rogue in a D&D adventuring company that was full of super-buff warriors and powerful magic users. He was targeted by the twins because he was physically the weak link but hung with the big dogs because of his cunning. If he looked like Conan the Barbarian he wouldn't fit the mold of his own story because he is more like Phillippe the Mouse from Ladyhawke.

 

[monk_56]

Enhance your calm, dude. We understand where you are coming from, but Rowan's fragility fits the story. He was basically the party rogue in a D&D adventuring company that was full of super-buff warriors and powerful magic users. He was targeted by the twins because he was physically the weak link but hung with the big dogs because of his cunning. If he looked like Conan the Barbarian he wouldn't fit the mold of his own story because he is more like Phillippe the Mouse from Ladyhawke.

Your point is obviously right- Rowan should not look like Conan- but it is a hyperbolic straw-man argument vs the concept that Rowan is portrayed too weakly.

There is a TON of wiggle room between how Rowan is portrayed and Conan the Barbarian.

Rowan could easily be portrayed as larger and more powerful and still suit the vibe of the SoC plot just as well.
There is no reason for him to look smaller or the same size as his wife (who is supposed to be quite petite herself) in CGS.

Secondly, the plot isn't stagnant. Why should Rowan wallow in weakness, smallness, cuckoldry, and being dominated for most of the entire story just because it is "what made sense" at the beginning of the story. This is a magical world, full of strange things, body changes, miracles, magics ect ect.

The one and only reason Rowan stays a pedestrian, undersized, compromised, cucked bitch until the end of game 3 is because the Devs choose for that to be the plot or how to artistically represent Rowan. People were complaining about this 5 years ago and they mostly seemed to lose interest in the game- guess I'm carrying the torch.

 

[Zero1994]

There are thousands of other games to play the 2m rabid "alpha male" with a horse's dick

This game is unique of its kind


Greetings

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

I can understand the complaints about Rowans appearance, even if I don't fully agree with them. I won't link the latest pictures until the update is released out of respect for the Patreon exclusivity. but I think I can make my point with existing art just as well.

First things first as much as I love the art of this game, I must admit that characters are not always super consistent scene to scene. However generally speaking once Rowan has his shirt off you can see he is actually fairly buff.


But when he is clothed he often looks skinnier.


Also Rowan doesn't generally have a super masculine face. Personally I would describe him a boyish, but I can see how someone would say effeminate instead.


I can't remember the other artist besides Sommlier but his art definitely depicted a very different looking Rowan which may contribute to some of the more long term player's opinions of him looking like a "bitch"

These older artworks are gradually being reworked to give the game a consistent aesthetic, and there are not many left.

----

As for Rowan taking control of his situation... This is still the first Act. If this was a movie we would still be in the fist 30 minutes. Even Conan the Barbarian was still a slave with no hope for escape at this point in his movie. I expect to see Rowan start to gain more control and take action in the second act. I understand that it can be frustrating because due to poor planning in the past, the devs have a lot of catching up to do before they can really advance anything meaningful for our main characters. But understand that until the main story progresses past Reastedel none of the new side content can progress Rowan past the point he is currently at. If it gets too frustrating in might be worth considering taking an extended break rather than playing every new update.

 

[monk_56]

There are thousands of other games to play the 2m rabid "alpha male" with a horse's dick

This game is unique of its kind


Greetings

Greetings to you as well!

That is just false. There are thousands of games where you play a 175cm luffy looking kid who is skinny as a rail and lives with his mom; who is also somehow an "alpha male" with a horses dick.

The game is definitely unique- but very little of its uniqueness hinges on how Rowan looks.

Rowan's build is not unique- there are plenty of games where you play as some average looking / sized dude

He basically looks like every anime protagonist of the modern Era. Except drawn in a more realistic way.

 

[Zero1994]

I mean the games on this website

The anime aims at a very young audience, it is not surprising that they are short

1.75 m is quite tall in other regions of the world

Greetings

 

[diebesgrab]

Greetings to you as well!

That is just false. There are thousands of games where you play a 175cm luffy looking kid who is skinny as a rail and lives with his mom; who is also somehow an "alpha male" with a horses dick.

I was staying out of this, but I’m sorry, are you implying 175cm is small? Bruce Lee was 172cm. Humphrey Bogart was 173. Chuck Norris is 175cm.

Regardless of height concerns, my image of Rowan is a lean, tough, rangy man. His muscles aren’t big, but they’re dense and well developed—he has the frame of a swimmer or a long distance runner, lots of slow-twitch muscle fiber. He’s built more like a wolf than a lion. I think you’d find that most common soldiers in the pre-modern world tended more towards that kind of build than a body-builder type—the day to day work of a campaigning soldier before engine-driven transit would generally have been medium intensity over long periods, not high intensity over short periods, which is what tends to build muscle volume.

As to how that’s depicted in the art... like Jynx said, the art is fairly inconsistent in how it depicts the characters, unfortunately, even discounting the multiple art styles. Sommy’s tends to be a bit on the buff side, and momdadno’s tends to be on the skinny side, but neither tends to draw every piece entirely on model, even to their own visions of the characters—which is fine, considering how much art they’re both putting out every month for the game.

As for giving the player the option to make a change to his build going forward? That seems pretty phenomenally unlikely due to the fact that not only would this introduce more states for the writers and coders to keep track of, it would also increase the number of CG variations that would be necessary for virtually every event. This is why, for instance, persistent pregnant and futa states for some characters, despite being highly requested, are also unlikely.

It’s fine if you’re not into Rowan’s appearance, but I think his being skinnier than Andras and the orcs is entirely intentional, and very unlikely to change. I think the best you can reasonably hope for is more consistent depictions going forward. If you dislike momdadno’s skinnier depictions, since Sommy is now responsible for finishing all the art, we won’t be seeing more of them. If you think Sommy’s depictions of Rowan are still too small, then I suppose you can either ignore them or stay unhappy.

 

[monk_56]

I was staying out of this, but I’m sorry, are you implying 175cm is small? Bruce Lee was 172cm. Humphrey Bogart was 173. Chuck Norris is 175cm.

Regardless of height concerns, my image of Rowan is a lean, tough, rangy man. His muscles aren’t big, but they’re dense and well developed—he has the frame of a swimmer or a long distance runner, lots of slow-twitch muscle fiber. He’s built more like a wolf than a lion. I think you’d find that most common soldiers in the pre-modern world tended more towards that kind of build than a body-builder type—the day to day work of a campaigning soldier before engine-driven transit would generally have been medium intensity over long periods, not high intensity over short periods, which is what tends to build muscle volume.

As to how that’s depicted in the art... like Jynx said, the art is fairly inconsistent in how it depicts the characters, unfortunately, even discounting the multiple art styles. Sommy’s tends to be a bit on the buff side, and momdadno’s tends to be on the skinny side, but neither tends to draw every piece entirely on model, even to their own visions of the characters—which is fine, considering how much art they’re both putting out every month for the game.

As for giving the player the option to make a change to his build going forward? That seems pretty phenomenally unlikely due to the fact that not only would this introduce more states for the writers and coders to keep track of, it would also increase the number of CG variations that would be necessary for virtually every event. This is why, for instance, persistent pregnant and futa states for some characters, despite being highly requested, are also unlikely.

It’s fine if you’re not into Rowan’s appearance, but I think his being skinnier than Andras and the orcs is entirely intentional, and very unlikely to change. I think the best you can reasonably hope for is more consistent depictions going forward. If you dislike momdadno’s skinnier depictions, since Sommy is now responsible for finishing all the art, we won’t be seeing more of them. If you think Sommy’s depictions of Rowan are still too small, then I suppose you can either ignore them or stay unhappy.

What we think is tall is rather relative to where you are from- but yeah; where I am 175 cm is quite a bit under the average male height and I would say it is short.

But I think its relational height that is more relevant to scene enjoyment for me- It'd be cool if Rowan wasn't like basically the same size as a lot of the gals.

I'm well aware permanent changes are unlikely for the reasons you listed- but I can hope / maybe there could be some one off events like for the other characters where he got a power-up or something.

I'll hope for more in general- despite knowing you are basically right. I do like Sommliers work much better than MDMs. Maybe Sommlier will throw me some bones. My guess is I'll just have to stay disappointed though.

 

[T51bwinterized]

Most of the pieces cited are collaborations between MDN and Sommy. This is a drum beat I return to a lot, but the majority of art in the game works on something akin to a comic book, where MDN does the first black and white piece with the composition and Sommy turns that into the finished product.

Regarding Rowan acting more domininant, I plan for a pretty significant dominant story path for the Liurial finale. For obvious reasons.

 

[monk_56]

Most of the pieces cited are collaborations between MDN and Sommy. This is a drum beat I return to a lot, but the majority of art in the game works on something akin to a comic book, where MDN does the first black and white piece with the composition and Sommy turns that into the finished product.

Regarding Rowan acting more domininant, I plan for a pretty significant dominant story path for the Liurial finale. For obvious reasons.

Right...its a great arc. But like....sadly after this months release Liurial is done. Then what. A full year of Rowan mostly getting dommed by everything and cuckoldry plots? We all know how both of those twins arcs will go. Shit is getting a little old.

 

[Jynx_lucky_j]

175 cm (or 5 ft 8.8) in seems to be pretty close to average in the English speaking world.

You must be registered to see the links	175.6 cm (5 ft 9 in)
You must be registered to see the links	175.1 cm (5 ft 9 in)
You must be registered to see the links – You must be registered to see the links	175.3 cm (5 ft 9 in)
You must be registered to see the links – You must be registered to see the links	175 cm (5 ft 9 in)
You must be registered to see the links – You must be registered to see the links	177 cm (5 ft 10 in)
You must be registered to see the links	175.3 cm (5 ft 9 in)

I suspect that Rowan was designed to generally to be very average in appearance.

There aren't really that many places that are "signifgantly" taller on average. (I'm defining significant as at least 2 inches taller)

You must be registered to see the links	185.6 cm (6 ft 1 in)
You must be registered to see the links	183.9 cm (6 ft 1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	183.8 cm (6 ft 1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	182.9 cm (6 ft 0 in)
You must be registered to see the links – You must be registered to see the links	182 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	182 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	181.5 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	181.3 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	181.2 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	181.2 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	181 cm (5 ft 11+1⁄2 in)
You must be registered to see the links	180.7 cm (5 ft 11 in)
You must be registered to see the links – You must be registered to see the links You must be registered to see the links	180.6 cm (5 ft 11 in)
You must be registered to see the links	180.4 cm (5 ft 11 in)
You must be registered to see the links	180.4 cm (5 ft 11 in)
You must be registered to see the links	180.3 cm (5 ft 11 in)
You must be registered to see the links – You must be registered to see the links	180.3 cm (5 ft 11 in)
You must be registered to see the links	179.9 cm (5 ft 11 in)

You must be registered to see the links

 

[SpoiledPrince]

Some people apparently need Rowan to be a raging roidbeast to have a complete power (fantasy) trip. Thing is, muscles nowadays are merely for showing off and don't translate into practicality. If you have ever seen any documentaries about hunting-gathering tribes living on their own, none of their men (or women, for what it matters) look anything like the gym-exhibition crew.
They chase prey, throw javelins, carry immense weight on their head, back and/or shoulders... They get to do a lot of physical work and consume calories efficiently, covering their daily needs, and don't look like a bunch of skinned gorillas, but rather achieve graceful, harmonious bodies that fulfill a purpose. Something natural and beautiful.

There's also a misconception about the kind of physique you need to move an armor, as it's designed to distribute its weight all over the man wearing it, and being articulated offers great freedom of movement. Those 20, 23 kilos move like a breeze. The main issue comes with the under armor padded protection, that it's often kind of thick and tends to get wet and uncomfortable with sweat. That's what fills the armor, not ox-like muscles.
Even with the 40 kilos armor+supplies package that some of the Roman legionaries had to endure for 20 km a day under some emperors, people were not grunting macho behemoths, just average-Joes with stamina built from resignation, duty, and ordinary ranch, not protein shakes.

Then we've got the other thing. You can be a perfectly good Dom without looking like a bodybuilder. Seriously. I'd even go the extra mile and say that those who rely on mere imposing physicality are often taken for unrefined, boring cavemen in the scene. The "me strong, you weak. Submit grrrowl!" gets old in a couple of sessions. It's not primal, but basic... And basic always means "easily replaceable", pal.
You don't build a pack/harem like that.

Rowan is a versatile character in every sense of the word, and that is perfect

 

[monk_56]

Some people apparently need Rowan to be a raging roidbeast to have a complete power (fantasy) trip. Thing is, muscles nowadays are merely for showing off and don't translate into practicality. If you have ever seen any documentaries about hunting-gathering tribes living on their own, none of their men (or women, for what it matters) look anything like the gym-exhibition crew.
They chase prey, throw javelins, carry immense weight on their head, back and/or shoulders... They get to do a lot of physical work and consume calories efficiently, covering their daily needs, and don't look like a bunch of skinned gorillas, but rather achieve graceful, harmonious bodies that fulfill a purpose. Something natural and beautiful.

There's also a misconception about the kind of physique you need to move an armor, as it's designed to distribute its weight all over the man wearing it, and being articulated offers great freedom of movement. Those 20, 23 kilos move like a breeze. The main issue comes with the under armor padded protection, that it's often kind of thick and tends to get wet and uncomfortable with sweat. That's what fills the armor, not ox-like muscles.
Even with the 40 kilos armor+supplies package that some of the Roman legionaries had to endure for 20 km a day under some emperors, people were not grunting macho behemoths, just average-Joes with stamina built from resignation, duty, and ordinary ranch, not protein shakes.

Then we've got the other thing. You can be a perfectly good Dom without looking like a bodybuilder. Seriously. I'd even go the extra mile and say that those who rely on mere imposing physicality are often taken for unrefined, boring cavemen in the scene. The "me strong, you weak. Submit grrrowl!" gets old in a couple of sessions. It's not primal, but basic... And basic always means "easily replaceable", pal.
You don't build a pack/harem like that.

Rowan is a versatile character in every sense of the word, and that is perfect

I mean- sure. I'd like to have a power fantasy where Rowan is larger than his partners and looks powerful in bed- just like you'd like to have whatever fantasy you'd like; feels like that is pretty fair. A lithe average joe by the sounds of it.

I was talking about what I find hot- not what helps you be a good back-packer or soldier or what-not. Lets be candid, realism is only a cursory concern in SoC.

I'll admit my post was a bit word-vomity about my general frustrations with Rowan as the MC; so it'd be easy to think I meant being dominant and size were intrinsically linked. But as you said, obviously, you can be a good Dom while still being small- though a larger stronger body can help; or hurt apparently.

Talking about domination was more related to how submissive his content generally is- not his stature. I can't remember the last time they added an event where Rowan tried to fight back against the twins even the tiniest bit past just trying to deal with their general bullshit when they harass him. He is so fucking passive. Feels like he isn't even trying sometimes. Doesn't try to fight back, doesn't try to protect his wife. Just rolls over and takes it. I guess we can count the intro rework; its something- that was pretty badass; until he got bitch slapped .

 

[Oriandu]

Some people apparently need Rowan to be a raging roidbeast to have a complete power (fantasy) trip. Thing is, muscles nowadays are merely for showing off and don't translate into practicality. If you have ever seen any documentaries about hunting-gathering tribes living on their own, none of their men (or women, for what it matters) look anything like the gym-exhibition crew.
They chase prey, throw javelins, carry immense weight on their head, back and/or shoulders... They get to do a lot of physical work and consume calories efficiently, covering their daily needs, and don't look like a bunch of skinned gorillas, but rather achieve graceful, harmonious bodies that fulfill a purpose. Something natural and beautiful.

There's also a misconception about the kind of physique you need to move an armor, as it's designed to distribute its weight all over the man wearing it, and being articulated offers great freedom of movement. Those 20, 23 kilos move like a breeze. The main issue comes with the under armor padded protection, that it's often kind of thick and tends to get wet and uncomfortable with sweat. That's what fills the armor, not ox-like muscles.
Even with the 40 kilos armor+supplies package that some of the Roman legionaries had to endure for 20 km a day under some emperors, people were not grunting macho behemoths, just average-Joes with stamina built from resignation, duty, and ordinary ranch, not protein shakes.

Then we've got the other thing. You can be a perfectly good Dom without looking like a bodybuilder. Seriously. I'd even go the extra mile and say that those who rely on mere imposing physicality are often taken for unrefined, boring cavemen in the scene. The "me strong, you weak. Submit grrrowl!" gets old in a couple of sessions. It's not primal, but basic... And basic always means "easily replaceable", pal.
You don't build a pack/harem like that.

Rowan is a versatile character in every sense of the word, and that is perfect

Yeah, ironically enough the most "replaceable" male character in the game would probably be Andras. Of course he won't be, but he doesn't exactly seem very... imaginative when it comes to his prowess in the sack.

 

[monk_56]

Yeah, ironically enough the most "replaceable" male character in the game would probably be Andras. Of course he won't be, but he doesn't exactly seem very... imaginative when it comes to his prowess in the sack.

Just go down to the Barracks and find another Orc and its done. Simple as that.

That said; he is very attractive- unlike Rowan... and that means a lot when you are trying to enjoy a porn game. Too bad I hate NTR....

 

[Oriandu]

I don't know what universe you're living in, dude, but Rowan is about as perfect a male specimen as you're going to find. Calling him unattractive is laughable. Rowan is in great physical shape, has a nice face, and good dick. I don't know what you're looking for in your men, but Rowan would be considered gorgeous by traditional standards.

 

[T51bwinterized]

Right...its a great arc. But like....sadly after this months release Liurial is done. Then what. A full year of Rowan mostly getting dommed by everything and cuckoldry plots? We all know how both of those twins arcs will go. Shit is getting a little old.

I'm doing Helayna next. There will be some expansions on the Rowan doesn't Claim Helayna story variant.

But, if you like Rowan-dom and "Rowan builds a powerbase" story beats, I can't imagine Helayna would be your issue.