You are massively overthinking this. The answer to Rowan's status as a commoner who somehow became a man with advanced knowledge in military tactics, combat, and so on is the fact that this is a fantasy game. It does not have to be accurate to how things work real world, it is not intended to be accurate to the real world. Rowan showed natural talent when fighting against Kharnas' forces, he was elevated to higher ranks over time, he learned as he went, and became a legendary hero. It does not need to be any more complicated than that and as far as we know it isn't.
Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.05 Dev] [Vénus Noire]
- Mar 21, 2021
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I don't see Alexia or Rowan's love for her as a weakness. Sure it made him vulnerable, but all great leaders have weaknesses because being human is what makes them great. They remain connected enough with their own humanity to value the lives of their armies and know how to inspire and motivate. The way I'm playing Rowan is that he's cooperating only enough to keep himself and Alexia safe while he works to ultimately undermine and overthrow the twins. My Rowan will hopefully reach the point where his righteous justice is fully realized. Keeping him as good as possible has been a lot of fun. I look forward to seeing where the game goes and what Rowan is allowed to do.If Rowan has a weakness and flaw it's Alexia and his willingness to be subservient to preserve her life. He should have let her and himself die but there's not much of a game if he does that. If Rowan is a fake he's doing an extraordinary job because the two things he was set against Karnas and Rosaria didn't last very long.
- Sep 1, 2017
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Ahh, great to see the place hasn't changed!
"massively overthinking this" sounds about right. By the way, it should be reminded that the starting point of the game was the idea of exploring 'what happens after': you are a hero after defeating the boss, you came back to your normal life, now what?
In this optics, the details on how Rowan got his hero status are not that essential (although for me they are pretty clear, all things considered). Rowan is basically
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after he went back to be a farmer. The focus is the next step, not what happened before.Out of curiosity, does anyone has a walkthrough for the events of the game? I admit that I tend to get confused by the story progress.
Most of gear/soldier/castle management is either broken or not implemented at all. Am guessing since it's not actually used for anything (other than one of possible paths early in the game, and to minimal extent, i.e. the broken upgrades don't make any difference) there's little incentive to fix this mess.For some reason the forge says that it's producing 4 equipment per week but it never does that, i still have the orcs without equipment
edit: for the equipment production specifically, iirc it can initially take a few days for the equipment to make it to the soldiers, after the forge is built. Perhaps it's intentional, hard to tell.
It could be, but as far as i know during Feudalism was enforced the idea of Class or States in Society were in some form like sacred, so you wouldn't be allow to do another thing in life if your origin (were you were born, like family, social status...) isn't according to it, even the most low of the minor nobleman starving wouldn't be allow to work in the fields so the same for any commoner, none of them would have never the same rights and privileges as the noblemen. If it wasn't any mention of this in Seed of Chaos, it would be mostly normal that Rowan who came from a peasant origin could make great achievments during his service in the army during the War, unfortunately this isn't the case. Besides, the time Achilles lived was way long before feudalism, and he was the son of the King of the Myrmidons with a Goddess which make of him a Demigod, Rowan is good but isn't told so fucking good (yet because this is Act I ;v ). William Marshall was the son of a minor nobleman, so...
I can't tell if it is shared by other players of this game or just me, i can't even talk for the people that like my post here pointing this, i just can talk for myself, i unfortunately didn't search for other post with similar critics, but from time to time there are post with critics or praise for the character. So in a way, if you need to classify if this theory is shared or not by others, you can at least known that is in your words my "head canon". With that established, the game not, the story, the narrative, the how it's build, Rowan live in a society that enforce Feudalism, during that period, all the people known well their rights according to their social status, no one would just slip from commoner to nobleman or vice-versa just easy, this was a way of thinking of the society as a whole and was enforced. Rowan in that condition would just had a bad time if he were catch doing something not according to his status.Is that an actual theory from players or your head canon? Because absolutely nothing in game hints Rowan is lying. Everyone would also have to be wrong from Jezera, Tue-Row to even Werden to the other heroes that seen him as a peer enough to fight Karnas, Rowans ability to get things done rarely seems in doubt. In game the twins recruiting him also well works. Bloodmeen is operational, they have an orc and soon goblin army, Rosaria falls and Rowan is an important part in it all. After a defeat he ended up in charge where he learnt to command and got very good at it very quickly. There isn't any ambiguity that I've seen that hints Rowan isn't a good war leader. His personal combat abilities are what shade is thrown at, he was not as formidable a combatant as the other heroes. That is literally the hold the twins have on him, they have Alexia and he can't kill them in combat. He can't even try without Alexia becoming a head shorter over it. They have him by the bollocks and he knows it he's options are suicide or service.
SOC seems medieval. Kingdoms for the majority of the dark ages and medieval times had no formalized structure to produce high level officers and generalship, that kind of system is something you mainly see in strong, very well organised and centralised states. From the fall of Rome it took Europe a long time to get back to that point. Rome especially the empire turned citizens whether city poor, farmers or nobles into skilled soldiers, centurions and generals regularly. Medieval Europe did not. Most medieval generals learnt to be good commanders during conflicts not before. They literally brought them to war young specifically to teach them how to command and get experience fighting. Someone learning how to command during a war is realistic. A peasant doing so also isn't that out there. It's not like been born a farmer means you're somehow incapable of learning war. That is quite literally the point, Rowan a common born man learnt how to command better than the nobles did which is the root of their dislike. A peasant doing that undermines the need for the nobility at all because if an exclusive warrior class can be matched by experience and training then why do it's privileges exist at all? Which is accurate, today's armies aren't commanded exclusively by knights after all.
If Rowan has a weakness and flaw it's Alexia and his willingness to be subservient to preserve her life. He should have let her and himself die but there's not much of a game if he does that
With a social systems like that, it would just be impossible for a commoner to command any army of knights, even if his words in the battlefield just make sense for them of what to do against the enemy. And was told of Rowan during the war, isn't exactly according to a commoner, it would have much sense if comes from at least a minor nobleman house because being a commoner trying to learn by just seeing and acting while fighting, surviving taking orders wouldn't exactly enough to understand details of how weapons are used, the way of fighting with them, how to defend a position, how to attack under some conditions, you know, that would overwhelm anyone without any knowledge at all about the ways of war, and even the best generals through history became overwhelm, just think in a peasant trying to learn that in the battlefield without any guidance at all while do other things, like not being killed.
Yes, there wasn't formal structures to teach military knowledge, that's another point against Rowan the peasant in a Feudal fuck up society, many of military knowledge was just passed or instructed by the noblemen to their sons or the sons of others noblemen by instruction or tutelage, not only during a real war, that was for experience, but not all nobles was just thrown into a war without any formal instruction. Thanks to the plague, the print, the America discovery and destruction of Lisbon the people left far behind that way of thinking about a warrior class making the war and the only ones that can protect the society.
About your last comment, well, that's another issue in game, because in all those weeks (iirc like 60 weeks that are like 1 year and two months) the noblemen in a practical sense did nothing and they appear to known nothing about the villages and churches being conquered, raid, destroyed, burned, with people enslaved and raped, and a plethora of etc.
Do you really think that all the time Bloodmeen had visitors, recruits, arrival of resources and other merchandise was by just by the use of The Portal?. Let me refreshed memory:
* In Bloodmeen there were new orc recruits, ok that pass, to get them without noticing they have need to make use of the portal.
* In Bloodmeen there were traders selling slaves, how would they know how to get to the portal and make use of it without notice?.
* In Bloodmeen there were a human that was noticed by Cla-min by his potential, being new in the Castle, how he get there?.
* In Bloodmeen every week that pass it gets the income of the villages and mines taken by Rowan and his orcs, how all that tribute pass to the portal without being noticed?.
* During Rowan's expeditions, there was one i remember were he can recruit some bandits, Rowan need to fulfilled his expedition before get back to Bloodmeen, so, how this bandits get into the Castle?.
* We can't forget that in some villages, the orcs are in charge, as happened during the quest were an Orc was fighting for his right about a village he owns by the rights of conquer in Bloodmeen by Might Makes Right against a human mercenary who born in that village and could just served to improve the peasants in working for the Twins without the use of force. So, in essence, they not only send the tribute but at the same time they enforce The Twins Laws and as any other administration, do reports, there is a way to do all that without being noticed?.
* I almost forget, near all what left of Liurial kind get into Bloodmeen, all of them knew about the portal too?.
What i mean is, some of the vital things for Bloodmeen were entirely obfuscated, but some others were completely unexpected, and difficult to think that all of them pass just by the portal. So, The Twins were very carefully to be in low, but wasn't precisely like an abandoned place that no one visited doing the travel by road.
I'll put you in perspective, if you see the army of the neighbor country next to you assault the city were you lived, they take hostage your wife, will you not report that to the authorities of your country and just trow out to save your wife Rowan's Style? In my case i'll just report, later, if the authorities move, i join them to search for her, but going all alone is in a sense madness and desperate, more considering the lack of any preparation. Moreover, Rowan isn't exactly loved by all the nobility and i don't remember he could just prove his words to them, as far i can remember, the kingdom was apparently in a very poor condition, just think about it, villages and churches conquered in a year and they nobles did nothing, there must be something we can't see or there is another issue.
Pal, the reality for Rowan in those times he was in the low food chain in contrast to the nobleman, no other army of knights would follow him knowing his origin for sure, not even if his words during the very same course of a siege and the need of regroup or armed a defense position would just make sense to them, and even this last thing would just be difficult to achieve by a man, specially a peasant without any formal education most than how to use properly a bow (that was the most common knowledge to all the commoners that serve during a War), if we take Rowan as a mercenary that was part of a mercenary army, he would just still lack in combat training and any strategy.
It's truth, but that doesn't stop people with some knowledge to give their tiny insignificant non monetary support for this game, because independently of all flaws it's still still enjoyable, just there are things that could help in getting the game more immersive.
It could be said, yes, if you enjoy the game as it is there's no problem. But there are people like me or like the other user far before me who explain to us in this thread how Raeve Keep must be constructed and how the handle of Rowan's Sword must be, because that help in the immersion. It's like remember GoT and the famous scene were the sword of Valyrian Steel just blend while John Snow mount a horse. Hilarious, yes, but kicks you out of the immersion. Another thing, Cincinnatus was more like nobleman of his time, he was in opposition to make the laws equal for all the people, specially for the commoners. While Rowan was a peasant that works in the land of a nobleman, Cincinnatus was a nobleman of his time who owns a farm in which he worked. What both have in common is about being great generals and both after the war came back to their normal activities, but Rowan did not by choice.
I had experimented that and others bugs without advice, i remember a time were i just had to replay because something goes wrong every time i successfully make a village to trade with Bloodmeen instead of conquer them or destroy them, the panel never update the number of villages and resources...
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Hey everyone. I just reached the beginning of Week 4 and I'm being offered the choice or staying the same room with the wife or to keep separate rooms. I have NTR turned on. What H-scenes does this effect and does it change any other important choices later on? Also can you change this decision later?
Whatever you decide, the relation Rowan have with his wife can fuck up later if you choose to save someone when you need to do an important conquer you'll see...
No, this is a common misconception. Until the high middle ages (and in many countries even deep into the early modern period) any knight could make any other man a knight. Most of the privileges and rights that a knight had were only as enforceable as his sword was sharp. Another common misconception you have is that you are conflating knighthood with nobility. Every noble was a knight, but not every knight was a noble. What made a man a noble varied from kingdom to kingdom, country to country. In some it was relation to the king, in others it was the lands one owned and in some lands nobility could be bought with gold or piety (taking the clothe and becoming a priest). What made a man a knight mostly meant that he rode a horse, wore armor and carried a sword and lance proficiently. And the other knights had to recognize him as such. This was very important and it meant that if a man knighted himself he would have to defeat his naysayers in combat. A large part of why the knights did not dilute themselves to accolade just about anybody who they liked was that you were expected to fight, you were a warrior and it didn't matter how badly you were going to lose, your name was only as good as you gave in battle.
I brought up Achilles primarly for the reason that he is heroic and well known. Although he himself was a king, he was not the king leading the Acheans against the Trojans though all the Acheans looked to him for leadership. I brought up William Marshall because he started with nothing but a sword and with that sword he won himself a castle almost single-handedly. I could have brought up a number of men-at-arms or some of the members of the White Company that started in a similar position to Rowan were accoladed and enobled but they aren't well known.
Yes, it's how the Alexia x Andras path is at the moment. Once Alexia submits to Andras, the NTR path will start and you will get consecutive events one right after another. I also don't like it and I hope it will be changed once the whole route for Act I is finished.
Or you could just turn off the ntr like anyother sane person would
Ok so I've pretty much accepted that corruption is an invisible stat. Is there a way to lower corruption through events? Just to know to avoid them. Because I've gotten the random traveling monk in the past and just got the forests blessing and I have no idea if that just helps Rowan's guilt or lowers corruption as well.
As the nobles that were Knights were "True Knights" Milites Nobiles and the commoners who were mostly mercenaries that known how to battle mounting a horse were "Calvarymen" Milites Gregarii (making some of them called later as "man-at-arms"), this weren't so common between mercenaries, specially because the horse usually to see in the battlefield wasn't precisely raised by every farmer around all Kingdoms, this kind of horses, now common to us when we see police officers mounted or horse races were specially raised and trained for War, something that wasn't cheap... Think in this mercenaries is like to think in any card game style with characters type SSR and you bought a pack of cards expecting to have at least one, this was more or less when the nobles hired mercenaries, because if he needed to had them as Calvarymen then they had must be trained and equipped in the basics, something that needed time and again, expensive; but even all that consideration, during the Crusades some companies like that existed at serve of Military Orders. The primary reason i discard why Rowan couldn't be a mercenary before the War it's because of his youth during Act I in Seeds of Chaos, i imagine a Rowan who came from a farm at a very young age, recruited as soldier knowing how a bow work properly from his passed Father, wanting revenge for the lost of his family and home by the Demon Armies, the Rowan showed to us looks too young to be a man with so exceptional skills and mastery of the war.
Similar no... Exact please, it must came from the commoners and must be situated during Feudalism, because the examples you gave doesn't help me to get out of my "misconception", it isn't a complete misconception the impossibility to change from a Social State (more considering if the Kingdom lacked from this), even the conditions in a Kingdom that had that tradition was hard to achieve and needed to considerations and patronage of other nobleman, consider that not all Kingdoms in Europe had the Ennoblement as tradition (as you mentioned The White Company now called by historians Navarrese Company formed by mercenaries in the late 14th century in the Kingdom of Navarre, which in fact this Kingdom or at least in Spain had it) and only during the Feudalism decadence in some Kingdoms (like France) it was possible for rich merchants families to buy Patents of Nobility. Nonetheless, the Mastery in the War told in game of Rowan doesn't sound properly from a person who came from the commoners, even the White Company i mentioned had as a leader Louis of Navarre, who was precisely a nobleman. So even if we talk of people like Juan de Urtubia who was a mercenary that commands a group of men under Peter IV of Aragon, a man considered man-at-arms, a properly trained as Calvaryman, being chosen to lead men into an expedition to recover the Kingdom of Albany and later lead an army to fought and conquered Thebes and Boeotia, he was taken as Royal Squire of The King and was more closely to learn from the nobles the mastery in the art of war before going to any campaign (and more importantly a mercenary before the recruitment to form The Navarrese Company in the first place), something like that unfortunately isn't mentioned in Rowan's Backstory because it seems that any form of Ennoblement isnt existed as Rowan himself told during the quest in which we must choose for The Twin Feudalism bullshit or Might Makes Right, at least a commoner like Juan had the chance, but Rowan?.
PS: One thing i almost forgot...
Being Accoladed isn't the same as being Ennobled. An Accoladed while is considered as the same as "Praised" or "Award" or "Honorable" as a Knight, they still aren't nobles. To be a noble need more to be Accoladed by recognition of your work and services to the Kingdom, need to be given a Title and the acceptance of the King and The Court, for his merits, his manners corresponds to those in the nobility and the support of at least one nobleman.
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I think the commentors were disliking the pacing of the events, not the NTR-route existing.
- May 8, 2017
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I am aware of the NTR pacing problem and have a fix prepared, it will be part of a more comprehensive adjustments of how Alexia centric events work, to allow them to trigger independently from the ruler event where possible.