It's taking a while for the same reason every independent, poorly funded game takes a long time: not enough people. As ridiculous as the amount of cash some of these projects make around here may be, they don't pull in anywhere near enough to fund an actual team of experienced game designers and developers. So you've got a couple of artists, maybe a composer, a couple of writers, a few coders at best... and many of them may wear multiple hats. This is a game made by a team of amateurs, working on money that is not necessarily enough for all of them to work on the project full time, doing work they're not necessarily suited for because that's just how things work on projects like this.
Ren'Py Seeds of Chaos [v0.4.08] [Vénus Noire]
- Apr 26, 2021
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I'm always surprised how little SoC makes compared to its contemporaries.
I recognize it is still a pretty high earning in the porn game demographics- but the writing quality, art quality, consistency and production volume is significantly higher than almost every other game in its earning bracket.
Doesn't hit the right range of fetishes. If Alexia was a decade and a half older, a milf, and Rowan was her "tenant", then it might do better.
- Apr 26, 2021
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"Doesn't hit the right range of fetishes"Doesn't hit the right range of fetishes. If Alexia was a decade and a half older, a milf, and Rowan was her "tenant", then it might do better.
I know you're joking- but I think you might actually be right about that. Very minimal mff harem for the protag, weak romance content b/t the two MCs, MC doesn't have a giga-cock, MC is kinda weak, Netorare. It doesn't really fit the kink profile of the big earning games.
That or people just cannot be bothered to read
.Concerning Milfs:
Don't forget about best girl Cla-min. She is milf dialed up to max volume. Admittedly, I'd like her a lot better if she wasn't married / 50% tit-flesh; but her other qualities win out.
Cilonia has a gilf-tier age, but no kids as far as we know.
Rowan better get busy and figure out his virility issues so he can make some milfs in this bitch to help the game's numbers up
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It' s too spread out. Few people will be looking at a wide range of the content provided so for most people this will only provide 1-2 relevant encounters per update if at that."Doesn't hit the right range of fetishes"
I know you're joking- but I think you might actually be right about that. Very minimal mff harem for the protag, weak romance content b/t the two MCs, MC doesn't have a giga-cock, MC is kinda weak, Netorare. It doesn't really fit the kink profile of the big earning games.
That or people just cannot be bothered to read
Concerning Milfs:
Don't forget about best girl Cla-min. She is milf dialed up to max volume. Admittedly, I'd like her a lot better if she wasn't married / 50% tit-flesh; but her other qualities win out.
Cilonia has a gilf-tier age, but no kids as far as we know.
Rowan better get busy and figure out his virility issues so he can make some milfs in this bitch to help the game's numbers go up
If only she wasn't a dirty goblin shortstack. (I don't like goblins)
- Feb 25, 2019
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Everyone complaining about how long it’s taking:
I'm not actually joking. I softened the blow with a"Doesn't hit the right range of fetishes"
I know you're joking- but I think you might actually be right about that. Very minimal mff harem for the protag, weak romance content b/t the two MCs, MC doesn't have a giga-cock, MC is kinda weak, Netorare. It doesn't really fit the kink profile of the big earning games.
That or people just cannot be bothered to read
Concerning Milfs:
Don't forget about best girl Cla-min. She is milf dialed up to max volume. Admittedly, I'd like her a lot better if she wasn't married / 50% tit-flesh; but her other qualities win out.
Cilonia has a gilf-tier age, but no kids as far as we know.
Rowan better get busy and figure out his virility issues so he can make some milfs in this bitch to help the game's numbers up
, but Seeds of Chaos is not a product that's going to appeal to the demos that a lot of the more successful porn games do. It's a quality product, but it's not the usual daz 3D model milfs with disturbingly unrealistic body dimensions and a violent thirst for her son's dick. SoC ain't Milfy City. It doesn't hit virtually every core fetish with an extremely inviting art style like Summertime Saga. It's not Innocent Witches that trades entirely upon a stolen intellectual property to get support. It also does not try to be anything like those games. SoC is a more hardcore experience, and not just because it's more violent, has a potentially darker and more twisting storyline, and a more detailed and complex art style, but because it has an actual video game component to it that doesn't just hand you scenes.Also I don't think the virility issues are on Rowan since the climax of Cla-Min's first act plot line is knocking her up.
- Apr 26, 2021
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Till we see our goblin mami with physics defying pregnant milkers- all of the pregnancy play stuff is just noise.I'm not actually joking. I softened the blow with a
Also I don't think the virility issues are on Rowan since the climax of Cla-Min's first act plot line is knocking her up.
The fact that Helenya isn't pregnant after 50 weeks of basically constant unprotected sex with Rowan is rather indicative of something going on.
Liurial isn't pregnant, Deleane isn't pregnant, Shaya isn't pregnant.
Tarish / Jez not being preg makes sense. Since it is hard to conceive half-orcs / Demons. Maybe half-elves are hard to conceive as well so no Liu pregnancy.
Almost everyone else is either a one off character or you fuck them too late in the game (Maud/Juliett/Patricia) to find out.
I guess everyone could be taking contraceptives and it just isn't talked about- Hel's ring might also be a contraceptive.
But Rowan is bangin a lot of humans- you'd think if he wasn't shooting banks at least one of those gals would have taken.
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Do people really like Summertime Saga art style better than SoC? What's more, do people really think Summertime Saga style is good? I honestly find it quite ugly.
- Feb 25, 2019
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I just looked it up. I'd say it's a very accessible style, just not done particularly well.
I didn't say that Summertime Saga has a better art style than SoC. I said it has an "extremely inviting" art style, biiiig difference. Summertime Saga, for better or worse, is extremely consistent, well drawn, has a lot of variety in character design, and it's bright, cheerful, and fun. Whether you like it or not is irrelevant because it is objectively good, it's just not complex or particularly detailed. It's also a completely different genre. Using manga as a comparison point, Summertime Saga is One Piece and Seeds of Chaos is Monster. Both have very different art styles, but if someone told me Oda's art style is bad I would laugh... and not in a way that indicates I think what they said is funny. They would be the object of my laughter, it would be cruel, derisive, and insulting laughter. If you told me that Naoki Urasawa is a poor artist I probably wouldn't laugh at you, but I would certainly dismiss your opinion on pretty much everything. SoC's art style is not better than SS's, it's just different.
In terms of patrons* both Innocent Witches and Milfy City get blown out of the water by TiTS and CoC2, 3.7k-3.9k to 6.6k-6.7k, which have exceedingly minimal art and are almost completely just text. They also get beaten by Being a DIK (12.8k) Harem Hotel (5.4k), Hardcoded (5.1k), Cloud Meadow (4.4k) and various others I didn't recognize the names of or that don't mention the project names. And if this ranking/graph site is to be believed (And the other numbers all check out) they're also beaten by Monster Girl Island a game that last updated nearly two years ago and that is currently marked Abandoned here. ...I can't verify because their Patreon is also currently under review. I selected those games in particular because none include incest as far as I'm aware (At least, of the MC-is-related-to-someone variety.) I tried to get a smattering of different types of games.
Meanwhile, there are plenty of games with 3dcg, Incest, and Harem tags to go with great reviews that get smoked by Seeds of Chaos. Mist at 675 (And I'll note a particularly low per-month-per-patrons. Average for SoC is $6.18, Mist makes $3.88 per patron.) The Awakening at 1,412. Waifu Academy at 1,377. Midlife Crisis at 495. My New Family at 1,181.
There are extenuating circumstances in some of those cases (Hello, Waifu Academy's update issues!) but the point is that it's a lot more complex than just "Seeds of Chaos has/lacks x." Sometimes it's the creator getting the word out or not, prior good will, other games of the genre before/after it launches, or seemingly just blind bloody luck. Along with various other factors.
If I had to pin two things above all others I'd say that SoC is dense as all getout in terms of lore and worldbuilding. Which I certainly love, but there's a lot of people out there that seem to look for fire-and-forget porn and SoC certainly ain't that. And second, well.
*Per-month money can't fully be gauged because some Patreons hide it. This can make a big difference because some projects engender a higher level of support among fewer supporters, but I used the only complete method I could.
**I'll also note as an addendum to this that going after niche markets can be absurdly lucrative. "Harem Incest" is about as non-niche as it gets in porn.
Meanwhile, there are plenty of games with 3dcg, Incest, and Harem tags to go with great reviews that get smoked by Seeds of Chaos. Mist at 675 (And I'll note a particularly low per-month-per-patrons. Average for SoC is $6.18, Mist makes $3.88 per patron.) The Awakening at 1,412. Waifu Academy at 1,377. Midlife Crisis at 495. My New Family at 1,181.
There are extenuating circumstances in some of those cases (Hello, Waifu Academy's update issues!) but the point is that it's a lot more complex than just "Seeds of Chaos has/lacks x." Sometimes it's the creator getting the word out or not, prior good will, other games of the genre before/after it launches, or seemingly just blind bloody luck. Along with various other factors.
If I had to pin two things above all others I'd say that SoC is dense as all getout in terms of lore and worldbuilding. Which I certainly love, but there's a lot of people out there that seem to look for fire-and-forget porn and SoC certainly ain't that. And second, well.
This. There's a reason they reworked the old stat/skill system and Cla-min's shop. SoC had those old systems in it for almost the entirety of its lifespan thus far. And even reworked to be much better, some people still don't want that level of gameplay in their porn.
*Per-month money can't fully be gauged because some Patreons hide it. This can make a big difference because some projects engender a higher level of support among fewer supporters, but I used the only complete method I could.
**I'll also note as an addendum to this that going after niche markets can be absurdly lucrative. "Harem Incest" is about as non-niche as it gets in porn.
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The thing with TiTS and CoC2 is that they come from the team that made CoC. I don't know about you but first porn game I put any time in was CoC and I honestly believe that is true for the majority of the western audience. Plus both of those games pump out content at a crazy pace (multiple content patches in a month) but most importantly also have very clear niche kinks, namely transformation and futanari. The first excuses them from not having artwork; how could they? And having a niche you serve more than others means that people into that kink are most likely to follow you.
I really enjoy SoC, the story is solid and I really want to find out what will happen (well I am lying, I really just hope what I want to see happen will be an option
) later on. But the scope of the game is too large for the team and at the same time the support is not broad enough to expand the team. People need to realize how large teams in gaming companies can be. SoC would need far more work hours put into it and I don't mean the team is not working but they'd either need to have people work full time which may not be possible depending on where they live and what the cost of living there is and ofc hire more people. It's really a classic enterprise issue were what you can do is limited by the budget you have but far worse when the need is a long term variable cash outflow instead of some one time investmentAnd honestly it's not even project management. Backtracking and fleshing out side stories is not a problem. ALL teams do that. Most games will get large parts scrapped and back to concept (I mean if the rumors are true, Diablo 4 was scrapped ENTIRELY, artwork and all, and send back to concept twice! ).
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I just have to say I don't even think it's cheating when the main characters have sex with other people anymore. I want them to stay together, and using sex to gain influence is just the way they do it. Like a loyal power couple that can prevail in the end by sticking together and forging alliances, while the demons keep bickering among themselves. Like, Rowan can be happy for Alexia when she enjoys fucking Greyhide, just like he enjoys fucking Cla-Min, but at the end of the day they go to bed together and talk about how they are gonna be free from the twins and get their happy ending together.
My perfect ending would be Rowan and Alexia on the throne, getting demons and humans to live peacefully together. Cliohna can keep her library, Cla-Min her trading empire. Andras can die for all I care lol. But Jezera is cool, I just don't see how she can stay alive in this situation. Maybe Rowan turns Shaya to their side, and she convinces Jezera to forget about conquest and live with her...
I haven't got too far into the story yet, I still have to take Rastedel after the field battle, but from what I've seen so far, I wish Alexia had more impactful things to do. I see both of them as main characters and I while I understand why it's like this, I'm not a fan of how whenever Alexia has sex with people other than Rowan it's treated as cheating/cucking, but when he fools around it's fine.
What brought me to this game was the art style, but I'm glad it covers a lot of my, erm, fetishes. Where I live paying for Patreon is a bit too expensive, but I'm gonna get this on Steam to support development however I can.
My perfect ending would be Rowan and Alexia on the throne, getting demons and humans to live peacefully together. Cliohna can keep her library, Cla-Min her trading empire. Andras can die for all I care lol. But Jezera is cool, I just don't see how she can stay alive in this situation. Maybe Rowan turns Shaya to their side, and she convinces Jezera to forget about conquest and live with her...
I haven't got too far into the story yet, I still have to take Rastedel after the field battle, but from what I've seen so far, I wish Alexia had more impactful things to do. I see both of them as main characters and I while I understand why it's like this, I'm not a fan of how whenever Alexia has sex with people other than Rowan it's treated as cheating/cucking, but when he fools around it's fine.
What brought me to this game was the art style, but I'm glad it covers a lot of my, erm, fetishes. Where I live paying for Patreon is a bit too expensive, but I'm gonna get this on Steam to support development however I can.
I mean that would work if polyamory was an explicit choice. But I think in most routes the couple just stumbles on polyamory and the other person just . . . accepts their fate.
Really it usually feels as either "Oh well you do you, our marriage is already a disaster locked in this castle" or "Well I am already fucking half the castle as well, do what you want and maybe I can join in?" It definitely would be interesting to see either of them use sex as a tool.
Really it usually feels as either "Oh well you do you, our marriage is already a disaster locked in this castle" or "Well I am already fucking half the castle as well, do what you want and maybe I can join in?" It definitely would be interesting to see either of them use sex as a tool.
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I chose the spread of games pretty precisely, honestly, including CoC/TiTS. (Though I'd imagine CoC being western players' first game might not be as large a percentage as you think. Keep in mind that most people in their 30s were 20+ before CoC existed - I think, it's hard to pin down an exact age for the game's start.) Those factors were part of my overall point (And previous completed games was part of what I meant when I said "prior good will"), that there's a lot more that goes into how much a game gets than "Incest, Harem, 3dcg: profit." There are a bevy of reasons each of the games mentioned earn the amounts they do, along with a fair bit of luck.
I think far too often people joke (Or seriously suggest) that you can just combine popular fetishes, good 3dcg, and Ren'py and boom, you've got a big-earning game. It's a lot more complex than that. If the devs gave Rowan some serious heat to pack, a mother and sister, and leaned a bit more into harem territory (Which, honestly, this game should already have the harem tag) SoC would not automatically out-earn most of the games listed above. It might not even get all that large of a bump. The equation's a lot more complex than that. Sadly, games don't always get the amount of money their quality "deserves," even when the content "merits" it.
(Also, CoC2 - not sure about TiTS - does have artwork. That's why I said "minimal." They solved the issue you bring up by simply having the art be PoV so the MC isn't shown, something I'm honestly surprised they didn't do sooner. There just isn't that much of it. And TiTS hasn't pushed out large amounts of new content for a while now due to the Javascript rebuild and resulting storm of bugs.)