Separating Futa/Trans and Futa/Trans protagonist tags

[OrphanOrphan]

I really don't understand why the mixed tags for futanari and trans exist, as those are quite different contents, and would like to request the separation of both the tags, knowing than there aren't too many games of this kind in the server, and would be relatively simple to sort the existing ones into one or the other tag.

 

[Bev_]

Yes, trans and futa should be seperate, however there will be nothing done about it untill tag system rework. Which won't be anytime soon.
https://f95zone.to/threads/tag-suggestions.91089/
https://f95zone.to/threads/user-based-tag-suggestions.28900/

 

[Meaning Less]

Because they are usually created the exact same way, you take a female character and add a dick...

People would be fighting over which one was which otherwise and if the game was not explicit about it chances are that noone would be sure.

 

[letmefapit]

One is a made up fantasy such as furry etc. the other exists in the real world. Going by that logic let's just lump all games that involve a vagina into one category

 

[nulnil]

Because they are usually created the exact same way, you take a female character and add a dick...

People would be fighting over which one was which otherwise and if the game was not explicit about it chances are that noone would be sure.

"Because one is a (generally) dominant female with a female personality, form, and voice, and the other is a male turned into a (generally) submissive female with a male personality, form, and voice, it is litteraly the same thing!"

It's like if all games that had gameplay had only a "gameplay" tag to represent them.

 

[Meaning Less]

It's like if all games that had gameplay had only a "gameplay" tag to represent them.

Care to go a bit deeper? How exactly could I go on about to distinguish a 2D/3D female trans from a 2D/3D futa in a virtual game?

I'm really curious about it.

Spoiler: futa or trans?

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[nulnil]

A trans person goes from male (dick and balls) to a female (pussy and boobs, no dick or balls). Futas/Herms have at least the penis boobs and pussy.

 

[Meaning Less]

A trans person goes from male (dick and balls) to a female (pussy and boobs, no dick or balls). Futas/Herms have at least the penis boobs and pussy.

But we are talking about games, noone actually transitions. Except in sissification games maybe...

I mean take the image I've shared in my previous post, is it futa or trans?

 

[nulnil]

But we are talking about games, noone actually transitions. Except in sissification games...

That's.. exactly what trans means. People transition from one gender to another.

I mean take the image I've shared, is it futa or trans?

Here you can only see breasts and the penis. However:

• The body and head are feminine
• There isn't much body hair except the y'know, head hair.

Thus, futa/herm

 

[Meaning Less]

That's.. exactly what trans means. People transition from one gender to another.

But games are fantasy, so it is impossible to know whenever a design is a futa or trans...

• The body and head are feminine
• There isn't much body hair except the y'know, head hair.

Thus, futa/herm

Wait, so to you if the features are feminine then it is always futa? But by that logic wouldn't everything be futa? There are zero trans characters in games if that is your definition. Because they are literally all made from a girl model, even the ones that some devs call trans.

 

[Count Morado]

That's.. exactly what trans means. People transition from one gender to another.



Here you can only see breasts and the penis. However:

• The body and head are feminine
• There isn't much body hair except the y'know, head hair.

Thus, futa/herm

Because you are attempting to define the two... it would be good if we get it correct.
While somewhat correct with one you're somewhat wrong with the other.

A transsexual person does not need to undergo surgery to remove/add genitals and glands. There are some who do, there are some who don't. The person may also have times in their life when they do not associate with any socially recognized gender and/or fluid - see comedienne Eddie Izzard as an example. It's not that they have a final sexual identity that defines them, it can be in transition in perpetuity.

A hermaphrodite has some form of both genitalia (partially or fully formed) of the predominantly accepted male and female sexes. The term futanari is a Japanese term which has become a sexually fetishized definition, in the past 30+ years, of either a person who exhibits both male and female sex traits with both genitalia (partially or fully formed) or a person who is considered a female with a magical/biological/supernatural element which enables the clitoris to grow to a greater size. Enlarged mammaries (boobs) are not required of either.

As for the image that Meaning Less provided - Unless there is further art to make aware if the character also has a vagina, they could be considered transsexual. If other art shows the character has a vagina, as well, then they could be considered a hermaphrodite. If you wish to sexualize them, you could then say they are futanari.

 

[Meaning Less]

As for the image that Meaning Less provided - Unless there is further art to make aware if the character also has a vagina, they could be considered transsexual. If other art shows the character has a vagina, as well, then they could be considered a hermaphrodite. If you wish to sexualize them, you could then say they are futanari.

But you see the issue with this statement is that futas aren't all designed equally as well. Some have balls, some have pussies, some don't have either.

Which makes this even more complex because yeah you could start calling all futas that don't have pussy simply as trans, but that would be very unfair because many explicit futanari art does not depict pussy. And in many games they are born that way so there was no gender transition per say.

Which is what results in both tags being mashed together at the end of the day. To avoid more trouble.

 

[Count Morado]

But you see the issue with this statement is that futas aren't all designed equally as well. Some have balls, some have pussies, some don't have either.

Which makes this even more complex because yeah you could start calling all futas that don't have pussy simply as trans, but that would be very unfair because many explicit futanari art does not depict pussy. And in many games they are born that way so there was no transition per say.

I stated in my comment that the genitalia could be partially or fully formed. All futanari (which are fictional creations) have some form of vagina, and again as I previously stated, plus either a penis (with or without balls) or a clitoris which is able to grow to a size which may resemble a penis.

Every definition of futanari I have every found over the past two decades states both genitals (or some form of such). The word Futanari ふたなり translates into English as hermaphrodite and/or androgyny (which comes from the Greeks andro- 'man' and gyne- 'woman'). If you have some other definition to point to that is different, please share because I am always open to learning.

As for hermaphroditism - there is no record of any actual person to fit the definition, they are also creations of fiction. Real people who are intersex are not hermaphrodites.

 

[Meaning Less]

Every definition of futanari I have every found over the past two decades states both genitals (or some form of such). The word Futanari ふたなり translates into English as hermaphrodite and/or androgyny (which comes from the Greeks andro- 'man' and gyne- 'woman'). If you have some other definition to point to that is different, please share because I am always open to learning.

You can't really directly translate something to english and then use the english etymology on it... It has nothing to do with greece.

The japanese word is 二形(ふた なり) -> 二(two) + 形(shape/form). Which implies two forms in one, which is then interpreted as male and female together.

And this term is extensively used in japan for dickgirl in general, even those without pussy. Which is why it is not that simple as calling it hermaphrodite only.

 

[Count Morado]

First you can't really directly translate something to english and then use the english etymology on it... It has nothing to do with greece.

The japanese word is 二形(ふた なり) -> 二(two) + 形(shape/form). Which implies male and female together.

And this term is extensively used in japan for dickgirl in general, even those without pussy. Which is why it is not that simple.

Dude - don't 'actually' me. Please. I did not do a literal translation of futanari from japanese to english. Also, no futanari has nothing to do with greece. However the words futanari and androgyny are synonymous because of their shared etymology and definitions within their own language families. Your definition matches what I have already stated. You're arguing your own personal semantics and preference, not with an objective lens. You haven't proved your point. You have provided the same definition that I have.

Look up the accepted definitions and translations for ふたなり or 二形 or 双形 or 二成 or 双成 --- you will find they continue to point being of two sexes, dimorphism, hermaphrotism, androgyny, etc. Being of two forms... Being dual formed.. being of both (accepted) sexes.

The fictional characters known as dickgirls (penis without a vagina) are not futanari. Weebs may have decided to call them as such, but they do so incorrectly.

 

[Meaning Less]

Your definition with the translation means what I have already stated.

That's the thing with languages, it doesn't. Which is why you can never directly translate words.

Words always have slight variations and meanings in different languages which is why the nuances I have given are important to distinguish between what people in the west call hermaphrodites, and what people in the east call futanari.

In fact if you wanted to go biologically, it would be impossible to have pussy+balls because balls are a reverse pussy.
So the two together are already implied fantasy.

Which is why people call both of those futa. Calling the one in the right trans would be very disingenuous especially to trans people in my opinion since that character did not go through any transition.

 

[Count Morado]

That's the thing with languages, it doesn't. Which is why you can never directly translate words.

Words always have slight variations and meanings in different languages which is why the nuances I have given are important to distinguish between what people in the west call hermaphrodites, and what people in the east call futanari.

In fact if you wanted to go biologically, it would be impossible to have pussy+balls because balls are a reverse pussy.
So the two together are already implied fantasy.
View attachment 2050059
Which is why people call both of those futa. Calling the one in the right trans would be very disingenuous especially to trans people in my opinion since that character did not go through any transition.

You are still only providing your own person perspective without using any accepted information to support your position. I have provided definitions, I have stated you can go see for yourself the translations and definitions that I have found for the original japanese words to. You, instead, have provided nothing but heresay.

I'm out.

 

[Meaning Less]

WRONG! I remember there was game (I think it was called transex education something like that) that had what I can best describe as "tranny" characters. They were not feminine looking AT ALL.

I certainly agree that in those cases the exclusive trans tag would apply, but the issue is that like I mentioned very few games depict poorly transitioned characters. So the tag would be useless except in those rare cases.

Most games even those depicting character that technically transitioned model them from a perfect woman so you wouldn't be able to distinguish them from a futa.

Sticking to "definitions" is dumb as fuck in this case cuz those got lost a long time ago, nobody adheres to that anymore.

But that's the thing, unless there is a proper definition that can separate one from the other, it would be impossible to tag games properly which is why both tags are together.

The only place where we can be sure it is one or the other it is with "real porn". Because in those cases futas don't exist, so they are obviously all trans.

 

[Meaning Less]

You are still only providing your own person perspective without using any accepted information to support your position.

Well my only position is that those terms are not as black and white as some people believe it to be.

And since we can't even agree on a definition here that just goes back to my initial post, that separating those tags would create these same discussions and arguments about if X game should be tagged with trans or futa into every dickgirl game thread.

 

[anne O'nymous]

A transsexual person does not need to undergo surgery to remove/add genitals and glands. There are some who do, there are some who don't.

It's definition also imply that you are a transgender only after you started your transition. It's obviously totally wrong. It's the opposite, you start, or not (because there's a really small minority of transgenders who don't really suffer from dysphoria and accept their body), your transition because you are transgender.
By the way, transsexuals and transgenders aren't the same thing. Thai ladyboys are transsexuals, but really few among them are transgenders.

And, as you said, the same goes for his definition of futa. Whatever the western translation of the word, in the ecchi/porn scene it now cover any character that will have both boobs and dick, indiferently of what they are. Therefore it goes from hermaphrodites to shemale, passing by all possible variation including mid transition MtF transgenders.

As for the image that Meaning Less provided - Unless there is further art to make aware if the character also has a vagina, they could be considered transsexual.

Why ? They can be either ladyboys or mid transition transgenders. Like Meaning Less said, only the story can tell what they effectively are, and if the story say nothing we can only assume according of our totally biased criteria.