NTR unavoidable!
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I mean, it has been like a month since the Patreon release and as far as I know there's no info on Ch. 5 at all yet, which is kind of odd.
First pre-alpha dropping soon, but you might not be part of that particular we.
Pre alpha chat on Discord suggests a first drop is imminent. At least that's what dev is claiming.
NTR unavoidable!
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Full chapter release was on october 14th followed by hotfixes on 15th.
I would be happy if the ch.5 (full) drops on december at least.
Was someone here able to use the "online mod browser"? I tried to but it always returned a error when trying to download any mod...
Orangepocalypse
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I feel like the hinge between NTR and NTS isn't so much awareness of what's going on as it is consent to what's going on. Telling the story through the medium of MCs phone definitely presents some challenges with respect to an NTR path, one of them being the question of how you're going to deal with the MCs awareness of Mel's activities "behind his back" yet having them continue anyway without MC intervening in some way . . . that is something that can still be addressed of course due to the fact that the NTR path hasn't really escalated too far beyond the drunken mistake in the club that set the path in motion.
Since MC is aware of Mel's activities through somewhat nefarious means (Injector), MC *should* be struggling with how to confront Mel without revealing that he himself has at the very least violated her trust if not the law in general (I'd imagine that MC will have dialog with Jen that will help flesh out this particular element of the story). As a writer I'd expect to see that issue fleshed out while the NTR path develops, and if that particular challenge is met artfully then I think you'll see a story that reveals that the developer has a good handle on how NTR *should* work.
You might be jumping to an unwarranted conclusion here.
No fullscreen option? Alt+Enter does nothing, nor F11 or anything else I tried...
Edit: Played through the game so far on the NTRS/NTR paths until current version, and I have to say, I'm surprised by how much I like the game. It's one of the best examples of this genre I've seen so far. What I like best, from the programming + writing side of things, is how many flags you attempt to incorporate that actually affect dialogue. Seeing "BF from text support" later on in a conversation made me smirk, but then not seeing it in a replay made me shocked. It's a seemingly small thing, but effective. I can only imagine that later scenes may incorporate even more of a "you did X but not Y", though you also my sympathies for having to write so many variables for it lol.
(For lurkers, other games basically just have a [message] -> [unique reply] that ends immediately after, unless it's a route branching option)
From the graphics side of things, I know it's AI, but you picked a great model / lora. Better than some of the others, which is amusing since everyone has basically all the same stuff. If I can ask what did you use? (Not reading through the entire thread, sorry if it's been asked before). Feel free to throw in rejected images you couldn't work into the story as bonuses, I know at least two others are doing that so they don't feel like they wasted gens.
Two things I would love to see:
1) a NTRS path where she doesn't actually do anything with anyone else outside of flashing and groping. Dunno what's all planned so idk how viable this would be. Most games blend NTRS routes with NTR so that once you start it, some "cheating" is inevitable, or even not give the MC the ability to say no. I guess that would a blend of NTRS + Love path(?).
2) At least one instance of her uploading boobs to the insta app, going full public exposure. Sure, you can ignore basically everyone already having pics of her naked anyway due to everyone sharing it lol (unless you keep it to yourself), but it's different if she shares it herself...! It's basically one step further from the semi-nude modeling.
If she does do the onlyfans thing that I see will / might be added in a future update, then it could serve as promotional content even; basically having at least one fully nude public pic.
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>cucked out of the NTR route
Meta.
Obviously it remains to be seen, but one thing to keep in mind is a sort of... idk, I guess headcanon aspect to things. Just because you have access to something, doesn't mean you're aware of all the information in it. It's like being aware of your gf's insta account but not checking it because you're not a social media minded person so you ignore that stuff.
Yeah it's a bit of mental gymnastics but shrug.
I didn't see that text exhange on the NTRS path, what flags do you have? I got to the end of the update with her only having a single exchange with Chloe.
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edit: I found it, you had to basically go full balls to the wall sharing everything with Ben from the get go it seems.
MC: "Here are 17 pics from all the girls I know bro"
MC" "Also here's some nudes from a girl who I KNOW CAN HACK PHONES AND SEE PEOPLE'S PHOTOS, so don't tell her I sent it to you lol"
Ben" "Bro, nice, wanna see my cock"
MC: "Hell yeah bro"
Ben: "Now let's see yours"
MC: "Here, no homo"
Ben: "You have a cute cock bro"
MC: "Bro..."
Ben: "Bro..."
MC:"I love you bro..."
Ben: "I love you too bro..."
Which is like... okay? But surprised that it took so many flags to set off the pic exchange.
I like the flag set up, but I don't think they should be as harsh in their criteria. Ah well.
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Are you two sure you're remembering that scene correctly? I had to replay the route to find it.
Order goes from left to right, the green squiggles are a break where she asks to see Ben's cock.
It's possible there is a variant I missed (and would have to play again...)
If you have something different please share.
Orangepocalypse
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Why do you think Jon can't see it? Do you have a reference to something in the game that suggests that?
I'm under the impression that Jon *can* see the injector conversations and that how he reacts to/deals with it is going to be something that will be fleshed out in the story.
If you're basing your analysis on the assumption that Jon can't see the injector conversations, then at least one of us is operating under a pretty significant error in analysis.
Sheltercat
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These are the messages that can be interpreted in various ways. When Jennifer says you will get just bits and pieces, it can mean that the MC will only get random pieces of texts and even not full photos from the information the app catches. So we as players can interpret this two ways: the MC doesn't see the same as us, he sees way much less of the information; or the MC sees exactly what we see and somehow he doesn't even react to anything. Based on MC reaction I choose to think is the first option.
Orangepocalypse
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If it is that first option, then to me that's a significant problem in game design. "Jon doesn't actually see all this stuff" isn't a fundamental gameplay premise that should just be there without being explained/justified somehow.
Time will tell, but there's a lot of really interesting potential in examining how Jon deals with the information that he sees while knowing that he can't reveal how he knows. One particular storyline that I think would be really interesting on an NTR path is that Jon knows that Mel is starting a romantic involvement with Dave (that's how Dave presents it to Mel) and that Dave is playing Mel (Jon knows this through Dave's Injector conversations with Ben). Jon tries to figure out how to warn Mel about Dave's true character (while Jon is trying to change his own behaviors that have caused Mel to stray in the first place), but Mel reads Jon's actions as Jon's jealous attempts to control Mel because to Mel "Dave is a nice guy who cares about me and has time for me". Jon's efforts to "save" Mel backfire and push her further into the trap.
If the game is premised on "you can see this stuff, but Jon doesn't" and that isn't made clear, then what's the point of the initial injector conversation with Jen? If it's a game device that doesn't actually exist in the universe of the game, then just make that clear to the player and put the feature in so that the player can track the story. In the universe of the game world, Injector doesn't exist at all.
Sheltercat
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Time may tell, sure. Or we can just make interpretations. One thing is certain, it would be really difficult for the dev to make Jon react to the bits and pieces because as players we can even ignore them. So thinking outside the box, outside the game, for the dev this is not something should happen because it would be really difficult. I choose to think it is still the first option and the MC just receives traces of what we see, why? Because the dev just wanted to give us "the player" a way to see things better, but it is widely known that this is something normal in any of these games, even it happens with movies and theather shows. We as players are not the same as the MC. And usually devs gives us "the player" a way to see things the MC couldn't see and magically the MC may see them and even forgets them, like when it happens in some MC dreams in other games. So at this point it would be harder to explain why Jon doesn't react to the info, rather than just chill and think that this was implemented for the player. I do understand if you need the dev to explain that, and that the app then might lose the value if it can only catches bits and pieces, but it wouldn't be mad to think that's truly happening, and the MC just sees portions of what we see as players. The day Jon reacts to these bits and pieces, if it happens, then we may could understand better, for sure.
Edit: Also, we shouldn't think Jon sees the exact same as us, why? Because if that would be the case, then Jon will have the Fappy app on his cellphone to see weird photos of his GF. Also Jon will have a Mods app on his phone that install sex mods... Also Jon would even have the Patreon link for the game that is about he and his GF. So we need to understand that not everything that is on the game is something Jon also sees, on the other hand, we as players can see everything the dev wants to show us because it is a game.
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Orangepocalypse
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There's a difference between the Fappy app/Mods app/Patreon link/Game Save File and Injector in that Injector is introduced as part of the story via a conversation between Jon and Jen. Injector clearly exists as part of the universe of the story, and Jen gives a description of what it does and how it's limited. The Patreon link is not part of the story, and it would be silly to not treat those different things differently in spite of the fact that they both exist in the UI.
Now *if* Injector were included on the phone with the Mods app and the FB app and never mentioned in the story, then I think your point would have a great deal of validity. It would be crystal clear that Injector was a storytelling tool that Jon didn't know about (it doesn't exist in Jon's world).
Further, *if* there is Injector content that Jon doesn't see, perhaps it would be useful for the developer to use a font style/color to distinguish between the two. How else would I be able to discern the difference between Injector content that Jon sees and chooses not to react to and Injector content that Jon doesn't see at all? These are different things that clearly ought to be treated differently.
You made a fair point that the player (as Jon) doesn't necessarily have to open the Injector conversations and as such it creates a substantial obstacle for the developer. I suppose the one premise I've been carrying is that Jon opens all injector conversations and sees them, because it seemed pretty clear to me from the conversation between Jon and Jen that this was going to be a major driver of the story. It's like going to see one of the Star Wars movies with an understanding that I need to accept that there's such a thing as the Force . . . it's a major story driver, so just go with it.
EDIT: This might just be an issue of how consistent the developer wants to be with his narrative POV. The whole transition to a messenger app based game is to shift from a third person POV to a first person POV. If Injector is shifting its narrative point of view back and forth between the two, shouldn't there be a way of knowing when this is happening?
Now *if* Injector were included on the phone with the Mods app and the FB app and never mentioned in the story, then I think your point would have a great deal of validity. It would be crystal clear that Injector was a storytelling tool that Jon didn't know about (it doesn't exist in Jon's world).
Further, *if* there is Injector content that Jon doesn't see, perhaps it would be useful for the developer to use a font style/color to distinguish between the two. How else would I be able to discern the difference between Injector content that Jon sees and chooses not to react to and Injector content that Jon doesn't see at all? These are different things that clearly ought to be treated differently.
You made a fair point that the player (as Jon) doesn't necessarily have to open the Injector conversations and as such it creates a substantial obstacle for the developer. I suppose the one premise I've been carrying is that Jon opens all injector conversations and sees them, because it seemed pretty clear to me from the conversation between Jon and Jen that this was going to be a major driver of the story. It's like going to see one of the Star Wars movies with an understanding that I need to accept that there's such a thing as the Force . . . it's a major story driver, so just go with it.
EDIT: This might just be an issue of how consistent the developer wants to be with his narrative POV. The whole transition to a messenger app based game is to shift from a third person POV to a first person POV. If Injector is shifting its narrative point of view back and forth between the two, shouldn't there be a way of knowing when this is happening?
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Sheltercat
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I understand your point. Especially because in the future Jon might or not talk again about Injector app and in a NTR route it would be something really important in the story. And we don't know if he sees it all or if he just sees traces of it. I mean, the message where Jennifer says "But it does NOT get everything... just bits and pieces" can mean that he doesn't get the full chat or gallery, or also could prove my hypothesis that Jon just gets random letters, words and pieces of images.
I propose this option because it is a normal thing that happens in games (so the player can see more, but the MC don't) and it does have sustent with Jen explanation and by seeing that the MC doesn't react to it. It would be very interesting if the dev at one point brings this to the table.
Also there's other games that would prove it different, because these "hack" apps affect almost inmediately the MC reaction. But I get that some other devs just let it slips and doesn't even mention it again, like if the MC is just oblivious of it.
And I put the example of the Patreon link inside Jon's phone because we can clearly see there's always a difference between what the player sees and what the MC sees, just some things are more evident than others. It would be hilarious if Jon ever mentions there's a weird Patreon link on his phone.
Orangepocalypse
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It's funny, I read Jen's comment that "you only get bits and pieces, you don't get everything" as a narrative trick that keeps you from seeing Injector conversations like Tom's wife asking him to pick up eggs on the way home. It would be a giant pain in the ass to see every conversation from every phone and have to sift through them all to pick out the "clues" that are relevant to the narrative . . . I'm not saying that wouldn't be fun for some population of players, but I can see why one might want to streamline that particular possibility.
The one place where I found the "Injector picks things up in pieces" narrative applied really well was the instance on NTR where a picture is picked up from Chloe's phone at some point well after the nightclub trip. It opened my mind to the idea that things could just appear at random points without being explained because that's the imperfect nature of how Injector works. It could even pick up half truths that might create misunderstanding on Jon's part, and that to me is another reason why you'd want to be crystal clear about when you're in first versus third person POV.
I wrapped my head around the difference between the UI screen being dressed up as Jon's phone screen because I don't want to be going in and out of one to get to the other (the utility of the effective UI was more important than the utility of keeping the player phone and the Jon phone as completely separate entities). I see Injector as being part of Jon's phone screen because there's story elements that suggest that it's there, but where we may differ in perspective is that I see all the goings on within Injector as being available to Jon's eyes because I see Injector as 100% existing in Jon's phone. If that's wrong, then the narrative POV is shifting in a way between first person and third person in a way that hasn't been made at all clear, and I don't see the narrative purpose behind that lack of clarity.
EDIT: There's a whole other conversation that could be had about renders in that the kinds of renders that players want to see aren't always logically available if characters are behaving as one might expect them to behave. A third person POV can just produce whatever from the perspective of an omnipresent invisible observer, but once you get into a first person narrative POV you might start asking about how/whether a picture would be taken (most recent pictures of Jen being an example). Those might be questions a player doesn't want to be thinking about when his primary objective is to wax his carrot.
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TRickJames
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I'm pretty sure they specifically changed the dialogue in this part in an update