VN Shocking! You won't believe what he said about minigames!

[mypossiblepasts]

How much gameplay in classical game sense - like minigames for example - do you like mixed in with your Visual Novels?

Let's not get too specific, just your personal estimate with your Mark I Eyeball device.

Let's focus on Visual Novels specifically.
For the sake of poll, I assume that:
Story = standard RenPy scene of dialogue, narration or choices, that can be played on AUTO
Gameplay = sandbox exploration, items management, grinding stats, minigames - anything that you can't progress through by pressing spacebar key

 

[WICKEDp4th]

None.

 

[mypossiblepasts]

I don't mind sandbox exploration if it's actually done correctly (so pretty much never).

Preach! (sadly)

 

[coffeeaddicted]

How much gameplay in classical game sense - like minigames for example - do you like mixed in with your Visual Novels?

Let's not get too specific, just your personal estimate with your Mark I Eyeball device.

Let's focus on Visual Novels specifically.
For the sake of poll, I assume that Story = classical RenPy scene with dialouges and choices, while Gameplay is things like sandbox exploration, grinding stats or minigames. Basically anything that's not progressable by simple space/arrow keys+space.

Very hard to concentrate on game play, when the sole reason to play it is the sex part.
But, different minds have different needs. So some play it for the actual story. Wow.

I prefer limited story as in game mechanics but with what i want to see anyway in that game.
Since most are novellas with D scripts of dialogs, i just want the interesting part.

I am surprised by the poll results which indicates that most that did the poll, rather have game play vs. action. Maybe people aren't perverted after all.

 

[mypossiblepasts]

I am surprised by the poll results which indicates that most that did the poll, rather have game play vs. action. Maybe people aren't perverted after all.

Not sure where you get that from. Care to expand on that?

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

How much gameplay in classical game sense - like minigames for example - do you like mixed in with your Visual Novels?

You're masterfully skirting the Cunningham's law.
The best way to get the right answer on the internet is to post the wrong answer
You're asking a question, but it so wrong: minigames are not classic gameplay; visual novels are a form of gameplay.

Visual novels are puzzles, with all the formal attributes of such. You have a decision tree, and you must solve for a desirable outcome in a limited number of turns (decision points). What makes them unusual puzzles is the enormous difficulty gap between creating and solving one, compared to other puzzles. An author must handcraft all the nodes and descriptions, which are informal and verbose (in other words, it's prose), and the bigger the number of choices, the bigger the workload.

Minigames are, in essence, an attempt to shore up a lacking main gameplay loop with some extras. Most of the time they SUCK, because they don't match the tone and the genre of the main game (VN=puzzle, and a reaction-based minigame is the opposite of that), and they are likely not tied into the main systems of a game. That's not a classic gameplay pattern. And even if they don't suck... the main loop is still bad, adding fishing does nothing to fix it.

A great game has both gameplay and rich storytelling, and these elements don't stand in opposition. On the contrary, they can be used to enhance each other. Any CRPG of note will prove that.

 

[Goeffel]

Wut?

You ask how much gameplay we want, and then somehow that gets tied to minigames?
yeah, right, LOL.

I DO want gameplay, but NOT minigames.
-------------------

gameplay involves, and sort of creates "expectation of reward", so rewards (be it sex scene, relationship advance, new area open, new chapter, new outfit, whatever) then feel good, better than from just clicking "next".
minigames instead get in the way more often than not, in particular if they are timed and/or need skills in controls or some such. some even get tighter with each instance.

When I want some sex scene NOW then I load some game that offers that, little- or no gameplay nukige, or plain watch video.

 

[woody554]

edit: reread the OP, didn't notice it defined the choices in the way it did. which explains the results but is a really weird way to define gameplay.

the all story no gameplay would mean a kinetic novel. knowing how hated KNs are I highly doubt the people voting for story ONLY understood the choice. they probably meant a VN with choices and maybe even relationship points (because that's been the most popular game type). also when we know sandboxes are usually super popular in polls the results are strange.

maybe people thought 'gameplay' means minigames?

 

[mypossiblepasts]

I love gameplay, but I loathe minigames—especially genre mismatching ones—for reasons stated earlier. So... which option do you suppose reflects that, when you piled both of these together in your 'definitions'?

10$ it's another case of ua education...

So many redundant words just to share that you haven't grasped the difference between AND and OR quite yet.

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Now please go out and never come back, fine?
You'll never be able to compete in cuteness with my IRL dogs and your barking doesn't really reach high enough levels of intelligence for you to have a chance. So 'woof woof' and skidaddle.

You ask how much gameplay we want, and then somehow that gets tied to minigames?
I DO want gameplay, but NOT minigames.
-------------------
When I want some sex scene NOW then I load some game that offers that, little- or no gameplay nukige, or plain watch video.

Again, what's so hard to understand - is beyond me. You refuse to answer question, only to write in detail reasons for your answer.

"Let's say that "drivers" becomes umbrella term for both car and bike users. Are you a driver?"
Yes, yes you are, even though you don't have license. Doesn't matter. You ride bike to work every day, just say "yes" and move on.
No need to write essays on differences between cars and bicycles. The point is that you're not using sidewalk.

the all story no gameplay would mean a kinetic novel. knowing how hated KNs are I highly doubt the people voting for story ONLY understood the choice.

Intention was for pure KN to be outside the scale, as the right edge, but in general - yes, that was the design I meant.

KN are hated btw? Haven't seen signs of that tbh.

And sandboxes are popular?! I think we are on different websites xD

 

[Ogrexin]

How much gameplay in classical game sense - like minigames for example - do you like mixed in with your Visual Novels?

Let's not get too specific, just your personal estimate with your Mark I Eyeball device.

Let's focus on Visual Novels specifically.
For the sake of poll, I assume that Story = classical RenPy scene with dialouges and choices, while Gameplay is things like sandbox exploration, grinding stats or minigames. Basically anything that's not progressable by simple space/arrow keys+space.

If it's done well, i totally support gameplay
Unless a story is REALLY good you wont really be entertained by it, and perhaps even get bored
That's why big gaming invented dopamine harvesters such as levels and stats, for an almost insignifcant inscrease in "ability" (somehow they always make it insignificant to the story) your brain has an orgasmic rush of happiness

so in the matter of sandbox exploration, it'd have to be easily navigatable - Devs really dont understand the difference between "challenging to explore" and "tedious to explore" a game shouldnt waste your time by making you run across the map for some stupid fucking collectibles which you will NOT find unless you find a youtube video of people doing the same thing, they were simply far more luckier than you and accidentally found some stuff
Fast travel is definitely a must if locations are unlocked

In regards to stats it's very much dependant on gameplay loop and the significance of them. Wasting your time grinding away a charisma stat for basically insignificant effect isnt appealing, and not only that, the sstats should cause differences in gameplay, almost like dnd rolls, a nat 20 should lead to a different result compared to a 10 or 15, even though they could technically be considered successes
This way the player is rewarded for actually bothering to grind their stats out
Then there's the matter of how you get those stats
it can be mini games, but it's not recommended imo. For VN something along the lines of simply gainnig experience once you make a certain choice which requires a certain stat, success or not, you simply get xp, you could add some repeatable scenarios where stats can be easily grinded, add books and perhaps trainers and that should be enough, make those accessible and not a chore to do, so making exponentially higher ceilings for higher stats is not recommended
It could also be a conditional thing, experience (actual experience, not like rpg experience, basically you try to be charismatic in conversation, if you have like 10 successes, you fit the condition for experience) knowledge and an actual teacher like i said in my examples
Time is the most important factor, it should not become expontentially longer for you to increase your stats, it makes you bored

As for mini games, massive hit or miss, depending on how high quality they actually are they can actually be fun as a neat little thing, but if they start getting overused or they inhibit quick progress then they should just be removed entirely

 

[mypossiblepasts]

Unless a story is REALLY good you wont really be entertained by it, and perhaps even get bored

Devs really dont understand

a nat 20 should lead to a different result compared to a 10 or 15

As for mini games, massive hit or miss

Oh boy, I was reaching back for my war gear, thanks for a suprise!

Intriguing first paragraph, I never really felt that way? Taste diff I assume. I feel like quite often I had to shoot a VN in the back of the head with a tear in corner of my eye, because I wanted to see where this mediocre story goes, but the shitbox deterred me successfully.

Shitbox. That's what I'll call them from now on.

Devs don't understand indeed. No need to specify even for that to hold true.

Stats insight is great! So simple and obvious, yet unseen... And it could be JUST flavour text, without even influencing path.
I guess Devoured or however that dragon one is called had something at least in that spirit.

Curious of even one hit minigame, honestly. I can't think of single one that I welcomed instead of pressing skip button/wishing for it to exist.

 

[mypossiblepasts]

... and making observations. Yes, most popular titles on this site have either sanbox or rpg tags, i.e. they are gameplay rich, or at least try to be. Kinetic novels are closer to an order magnitude lower in engagement metrics, and there's fewer of them as well (2,5k sanboxes, 2k rpgs, but less than 1k KNs)

Yeah, it's just education diff, that or some brain damage/disability which makes you immune to logic.
Sandbox are common, not popular.
KNs aren't hated but just not popular.

Is there some ban/blacklist or other way to put him to sleep in my thread?

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

Sandbox are common, not popular.

Dev earnings, f95 likes, f95 downloads, f95 comments, all say you're dead wrong. But keep up your denial of reality, it's amusing.

KNs aren't hated but just not popular.

Both for a dev and a player, there's no functional difference in outcome. People are equally less likely to play and pay for a game they actively hate and a game they just fail to like.

Is there some ban/blacklist or other way to put him to sleep in my thread?

Mods! Mods! Mommy! Waaaaa~! Yeah, you can ignore me and hide my posts. That won't prevent me from posting, because it's not your tread. It's a public forum after all.

OUR THREAD, COMRADE.

OUR THREAD.

 

[mypossiblepasts]

there's no functional difference in outcome

Oh, so just like between gameplay elements in RenPy VN's and mini-games!

Nice of you to complete the exodia of your trolling with that moving goalpost alongside sharing such an obnoxiously stupid thought as "niche = hated".

 

[lolzorzs]

That 1 vote for 100% gameplay is me by the way. You guys are disgusting. Most of you don't even read literature and know proper English and you want story? YOU CAN'T HANDLE REAL STORY.

 

[mypossiblepasts]

That 1 vote for 100% gameplay is me by the way.

Ignoring the shitpost, while creating the poll, by 100% gameplay I meant this game.

 

[Goeffel]

Maybe actually read the first message of the tread?

Oh, I did. How could I have reacted to the discrepancy in poll-question and OP-question if not for reading OP?
That's the problem - now nobody knows which of the two questions voters answered, so the poll results became sort of useless.
(hence me not voting)

That's all there is, a poor poll setup - not the end of the world.
Maybe if OP would try to understand where critique is coming from, it could help them setting up a less misleading/ confusing poll next time.

 

[mypossiblepasts]

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I am pretty sure you're on some kind of crack cocaine right now.

 

[NeonSelf]

Worst type of story is plain text.

If you can show a story in short dialogs, facial expressions, animations - its great.
If your "story" is 100 pages of boring text that I should skip to get to action - Its a waste of my time (Sweet Affection).

Worst type of gameplay is the one to waste your time:

if minigame is based on situation in game: fighting or groping\undressing a girl - its great.
if you have to repeat same action X times or rely on random event to progress - its a waste of your time.


The quality of story\minigames varies in all games I've played. Thats why I'm not sure what to vote for.

 

[lolzorzs]

I am pretty sure you're on some kind of crack cocaine right now.

Yeah baby/infant, it's called having a high IQ or at least trying to. You should try it sometime.