Short games vs long but never ending in early access

[FAXz]

Hello there

A lot of devs trying to create dream-game with as many features as possible. But once the enthusiasm is gone they abandon the game. This is the usual situation for most indie game developers. Sometimes it happens even with successful games because devs trying to make the game more suitable for wider gamers auditory or just don't know what to do next.

Never-ending early access games are a common thing nowadays and I believe it's better to make a short but interesting game (something like an episodic model) than a long one.

What do you think guys? Looking forward to your opinion!

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

Don't most games statistically get abandoned after the initial release? Unless by short game you literally mean that you should finish it all in one go and put it out, there would be plenty of abandoned short games as well.

Even if short games magically never get abandoned, I don't think it's a reality I would prefer. I like long form storytelling, I prefer a good TV show to most movies. Trying to cram good characterization and story into a "short game" sounds like a recipe for disaster. Maybe it can work if it's just a pure fap game or if the dev is super talented, but meh.

 

[Droid Productions]

A lot of devs trying to create dream-game with as many features as possible. But once the enthusiasm is gone they abandon the game. This is the usual situation for most indie game developers. Sometimes it happens even with successful games because devs trying to make the game more suitable for wider gamers auditory or just don't know what to do next.

A lot of games here are soap-operas; they were *never* planned to *finish*. I'm reasonably certain that once I finish Love of Magic, there will be some people who leave my Patreon going "yeah, I was here for LoM, that next thing isn't my thing". Will the next one do better? I don't know. But if I was making 50K/month, I could certainly see the motivation to *not* end it.

A lot of times it's not really a conscious decision to abandon these games. Love of Magic was started in Oct 2019, as a hobby project on this site. It's been... some time since then. My life's changed, especially considering the minor speed bump in the middle. A lot of people change jobs, get married, get kids, or die.

A lot of people get burned out; it does happen. From the player point of view these games seem easy, especially compared to AssCreed or GTA, or whatever AAA game developed by a team of 2,500 people. But you CAN still burn out. Especially if you see a lot of negativity, or you're working long hours and nobody cares. I actually think cash is not the biggest element there (people with lively and happy communities, and lackluster patreons, are more likely to continue than someone with an okay-ish patreon and a toxic community).

In the end, I do think it's worth planning for an ending; it gives you an overall arch, it lets you plan ahead and it gives you a goal. But it's worth remembering that most of the best-performing games on Patreon has absolutely no stated plans of finishing

 

[Deleted member 5732714]

Hello there

A lot of devs trying to create dream-game with as many features as possible. But once the enthusiasm is gone they abandon the game. This is the usual situation for most indie game developers. Sometimes it happens even with successful games because devs trying to make the game more suitable for wider gamers auditory or just don't know what to do next.

Never-ending early access games are a common thing nowadays and I believe it's better to make a short but interesting game (something like an episodic model) than a long one.

What do you think guys? Looking forward to your opinion!

Because most of devs are not have any clear idea about their project. They need to start small, and try to optimize project in every aspect. They need to create fast and quality pipeline for their Story, Code, Graphic and Sound creation.

But generally they are ended up with downloading Daz and Ren'Py. Trying to find assets for their project. And you are just seeing the same vibe in every game ( This is also reason why we don't have unique themes). They need to create their own assets in proper modelling/animation programs like Max/May/Blender/Zbrush and need to use proper render engines like Octane/Redshift/etc...

My advice is start small, sell your game, make money, make bigger game, sell your game...

 

[Doorknob22]

I don't understand people's fury over "never ending games". As long as you get pussy in regular intervals, what do you care if the game ends or not? What is it that people yearn for? The closing titles? If the sex is hot and the intervals are good the game can go on forever, for all I care.

If the quality drops in later updates or developer perpetually increases the time between updates, I get the frustration but that doesn't have anything to do with the length of the game.

 

[Deleted member 5732714]

I don't understand people's fury over "never ending games". As long as you get pussy in regular intervals, what do you care if the game ends or not? What is it that people yearn for? The closing titles? If the sex is hot and the intervals are good the game can go on forever, for all I care.

If the quality drops in later updates or developer perpetually increases the time between updates, I get the frustration but that doesn't have anything to do with the length of the game.

IMO, there is huge difference between adult games and fap material games. Never ending games are literally no difference from porn, lewd pictures, etc... They are only for fap don't make any sense in other directions. If I want quick fap, I will probably go for high quality animations, not never ending mess.

Otherwise, adult games are ( IMO ) always have more than sex. Also they have some kind of structure like movies.
Never ending porn games are like Doom while Adult games are like Mafia ( Game by Rockstar ).

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

I don't understand people's fury over "never ending games". As long as you get pussy in regular intervals, what do you care if the game ends or not? What is it that people yearn for? The closing titles? If the sex is hot and the intervals are good the game can go on forever, for all I care.

This obviously only applies to story-heavy games, but if a game gets dragged out for years the narrative usually becomes a muddled mess, much like a TV show that went on too long without some great plan. And if a bunch of highly paid Hollywood writers aren't able to plot out 8 years of satisfying TV material in advance I doubt some retard in his bedroom can.

At some point a story kind of needs to reach a climax and if it doesn't it's either because you are dragging it out with bullshit and turn your story into a soap opera or you actually do reach the climax but don't want to stop the game so you decide to tack on new weird shit. So, after the MC in your game conquers the whole world he might magically find a new continent of more bitches to conquer. Or turn into a jet and bomb the Russians.

 

[kzaazul]

Because most of devs are not have any clear idea about their project. They need to start small, and try to optimize project in every aspect. They need to create fast and quality pipeline for their Story, Code, Graphic and Sound creation.

But generally they are ended up with downloading Daz and Ren'Py. Trying to find assets for their project. And you are just seeing the same vibe in every game ( This is also reason why we don't have unique themes). They need to create their own assets in proper modelling/animation programs like Max/May/Blender/Zbrush and need to use proper render engines like Octane/Redshift/etc...

My advice is start small, sell your game, make money, make bigger game, sell your game...

The subscription model incentivizes developers to keep working on the same game with regular releases, as explained by Droid Productions. On the other hand, developing a game takes time, effort and resources, so it must be really hard to keep at it if you won't see the money until the final release.

 

[trex999999]

I would rather an abandoned game with great content the whole way through than to get a "complete" game which feels rushed or decreases in quality towards the end.

People seem to be fine calling something complete if it has the "completed" tag, but how many games really have a full narrative arc and satisfying story ending? I feel as though those can be counted on one hand one this site, even if there are hundreds of "completed" VNs and games. Most of the time the dev gets bored, or hastily releases a "fuck you, the end." final update just to avoid an abandoned tag.

In general, these VNs are (slice of life?) day-to-day stories with limited use of time jumps. Should a dev spend months or years writing out a full narrative arc for their story detailing every single day for their character for a full month? For a full year? Where is the logical end point for these sorts of stories? It seems to me they are meant to be ongoing.

Where is the logical end for a sitcom? There isn't really any point where you need to stop Seinfeld or Friends - endings come out of nowhere, are rushed, and don't play into a greater narrative arc. Its the same deal with these VNs.

I would also ask: Why would you want it to be done? If you like the story, if you like the characters, if you like the render style and animations, then why do you want the story to be over? Eventually people will probably lose interest, but I think long running games like BaDIK prove that people do like this model of long and seemingly never ending stories with the same characters.

 

[haksaw]

What is it that people yearn for? The closing titles?

Yes? I don't watch shows untill all the seasons are out and don't play games that are early access\episodic untill all the episodes are out. What is the point in playing a game knowing you won't reach the end? I better play some other games and play this one 3 years later when it's done. If it's never done - well, that saves me from one dissapointment

how many games really have a full narrative arc and satisfying story ending?

Almost all japanese ones. They know how to make stories that differ from Santa Barbara

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

First thing first, game development is business like all other things and game devs can choose their own business plan.
But I don't agree with your argument. Most devs ( in the all genres, not only adult/eroge) are selling their games when it's done.
If they can find some motivation, adult game devs can also find.

So why exactly would they choose a business plan where they make less money? Also, I don't know where you've been the last 10+ years but lots of big game devs use early access or Kickstarter these days. Baldur's Gate 3 is one of the most anticipated RPGs and it's been in early access for like two years.

Yes? I don't watch shows untill all the seasons are out and don't play games that are early access\episodic untill all the episodes are out. What is the point in playing a game knowing you won't reach the end? I better play some other games and play this one 3 years later when it's done. If it's never done - well, that saves me from one dissapointment

That's a weird way to view things. I've played a bunch of games that got abandoned or games that were already abandoned when I got to them and I enjoyed the content that was there. I also watched plenty of TV shows that got cancelled. Does it suck that they didn't get an ending? Sure, but I still enjoyed what was there.

 

[Meaning Less]

As long as you get pussy in regular intervals

See this is exactly another big problem caused by neverending stories.

As opposed to sex progressing gradually and slowly building up to a climaxing finale many western games work on a premise of "quickfaps", because people hate when an update drops without new sex scenes in it.

What forces many devs to sprinkle sex all around at every second, this messes up the entire pace of the story to anyone playing it in one go, western games are getting closer and closer to western porn where characters find an excuse to have sex at every corner and unfortunetely it affects the story quality.

TV shows work in small episodes because they are not bound by sex or other silly gimmicks like that, then you can have multiple episodes all building up a single arc, something that is getting harder and harder to find in western games.

Probably one of the main reasons why I stick to Jap games or Western devs that don't release frequently but take as much time it needs before each release.

 

[haksaw]

I still enjoyed what was there.

Sure you can enjoy it, but why spend your time on half done stuff when there're tons of complete things around? There are enough books, shows, movies and games already out to last several lifetimes, why not enjoy one of them?

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

Sure you can enjoy it, but why spend your time on half done stuff when there're tons of complete things around? There are enough books, shows, movies and games already out to last several lifetimes, why not enjoy one of them?

Because "being completed" isn't a mark of quality. There are plenty of completed movies, TV shows and games that are complete dog shit. Contrarily, there are plenty of abandoned games, cancelled TV shows etc that are better than most completed things.

 

[haksaw]

Contrarily, there are plenty of abandoned games, cancelled TV shows etc that are better than most completed things.

Better at what? For example, author of Berserk manga died not long ago. Many say that it's one of the better mangas out there. But what is the point reading it now? Sure you can look at pretty pictures I guess and have some fun out of it, but that's it. How can you invest in story and characters knowing they will never get any conclusion?

 

[Meaning Less]

Contrarily, there are plenty of abandoned games, cancelled TV shows etc that are better than most completed things.

I don't believe OP was talking about abandoned games, people after him added abandoned to the discussion out of nowhere.

The comparison here is neverending vs not as long but finished ones.

Would you rather watch a complete series with only one season or a series that is officially never going to end but has way more episodes?

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

Better at what? For example, author of Berserk manga died not long ago. Many say that it's one of the better mangas out there. But what is the point reading it now? Sure you can look at pretty pictures I guess and have some fun out of it, but that's it. How can you invest in story and characters knowing they will never get any conclusion?

I never got this way of looking at things. It's like people who say that a TV show or game is "ruined" because it had a bad ending. Yeah, maybe it was shit, but that doesn't invalidate everything that came before it and how much I enjoyed it up to that point. It's the same for unfinished works. Would I prefer there was a satisfying conclusion? Sure, but it not being there doesn't mean I can't enjoy what is there and then make an ending up in my head.

"Its the not the destination, it's the journey."

Would you rather watch a complete series with only one season or a series that is officially never going to end but has way more episodes?

For me it's more about quality than quantity or "being finished." It also depends on what I want to get out of it. Maybe there's a dev who's great at writing sex scenes and he's just making an open-ended game that only has a plot that's barely enough to hang sex scenes on, but it's great and I want him to keep pumping that shit out. Or maybe there's a dev who's a great storyteller and knows exactly what story he wants to tell and how to get there (haha, yeah right.) Those are different types of games, but they both might be exactly what they want to be.

 

[trex999999]

Almost all japanese ones. They know how to make stories that differ from Santa Barbara

ah yes, japanese porn games. Known for their narrative depth and definitely not a wall-to-wall recycled trope story as a vehicle for loli/rape/piss/scat content..... There are great japanese porn games, but please don't make this "thing - japanese thing" nonesense.

For example, Miel games encapsulate exactly what I mean by "technically complete". Same reskinned garbage story over and over again. Delivered technically finished. MC fucks all of the women and they get pregnant, the end. If this is a satisfying narrative arc, then I think you are really making my case for me.

If you like that kind of art and content, more power to you but it's exactly the kind of stuff that I'd rather have less of.

 

[haksaw]

If you like that kind of art and content

I'm mostly talking about Nitro+, Liar soft, Eushully, Alicesoft and so on. But I'll take those 2hour trash games over some incomplete Odyssey any day if I just need a quick fap. Though I'll better fap to Black Lilith or Bishop stuff, they are good for mindless fapping.

 

[Meaning Less]

For me it's more about quality than quantity or "being finished."

Exactly, but chances of something with no plans to end not affecting the overall quality is very low.

The best games I've played usually have multiple story arcs that slowly build into a full climax much later.

Unfortunetely this concept is lost in many neverending games that have no idea where the story climax will fit, how to build it or even if there will be one.

Also there are only so many character and sex interactions you can cram into the same story before it starts feeling repetitive and people get tired of it.

Which is why even if the perfect game could go on forever I would just get bored with it after some point and move on to something new.

Focus on a complete game first, and if your story ends up being THAT good, just make a sequel, spinoff or similar. Don't drag it for no reason...