Skill checks in games

[MarkesOrelies]

Is it a good idea to add skill checks (d20 dice, like dnd), to a game, even thou most players are just going to save scum, to get a success?
How would players feel if you use a set seed for the rng (random number generator), so they can't save scum. Will that detract from there enjoyment?
I wonder even thou players save scum, you should still have the skill checks, because they feel like they beat the system? The question then is how much effort should you spend on making the fleshing out the failure path, if only a small portion of players are going to see that route?

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

This about sums up how I feel about RNG when it comes to making choices.


The game doesn't have to be deterministic, but player actions should be 100% RNG-free.

As for whether it's worth developing failures, is the fail content something that player might want to see? For example in a ryona-type game where MC losing would lead to seeing an H-scene.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Is it a good idea to add skill checks (d20 dice, like dnd), to a game, even thou most players are just going to save scum, to get a success?

Well, there's few games using randomization, either as pure one or in part of skill check, and some of them do it to know if a choice will works or not. Most of the last ones have a successful mod getting rid of that randomization...
It make sense in a combat system and a real RPG game, but yet not regarding story choices. This is annoying and most players would see it as a way to hide a cheap story and a lack of content.

How would players feel if you use a set seed for the rng (random number generator), so they can't save scum.

Even more betrayed.

 

[RandyTyr]

Whether there is any place for this at all depends on the structure of the game. In a game with linear flow, randomization doesn't really have any place. Rolling a D20 to determine whether the MCs pickup line is smooth enough to get a potential LI to have a night full of sex with all the best fetishes involved, or whether MC never sees her again? Well, either that kills your game or everyone uses a mod to get rid of that. Similarly, in a linear game rolling the die to see whether you get the pregnant or the non-pregnant ending is just a bad, bad, bad idea. If the game flow is linear, choices should be due to either the dev or the player.

If the game flow is a loop (ie interactions can generally repeat), randomness can (sometimes) add judge the smidgeon of unpredictability to make it more interesting. Reusing the examples above, if you are meant to make multiple attempts before succeeding, making this random can be nicer than pre-determining that the 7th attempt will work. However, a pure "does it work today"-roll of course means that a few players may need unreasonably many attempts. Certainly I'd stay away from small success chances altogether. Rolling D20s will feel more appropriate if there is an accompanying skill mechanic (eg the player can improve the MCs "seduction"-skill, success if seduction_skill + D20 > 15).

Something I've actually done myself is using die for impregnation success. In some cases, it works best for the plot of my game if the couple succeeds on the first try, and then that is what happens. But sometimes I want to convey more the feeling of "these people have a habit of unprotected sex, so eventually someone gets pregnant", and for that rolling die seems the best option.

 

[tomcire]

Why is there a need of RNG? I think that the gameplay should be functional to the story and viceversa, they should have a synergy to form a non contraddictory experience.
RNG means uncertainty. Is that a mood for your story? Will you create hours of scenes that a player could skip for a bad roll?
A game with a lot of replaybility could benefit from that, every run it will seem like a new game (maybe).

Predetermined set or values to add to their "roll" means a "deterministic" universe. How much is important fate in your story? You could represent these values as cards, maybe an hand of cards, and why not, minor tarots. Thats a cool idea if it makes sense to your story. Still, you should have a lot of replaybility for a game like that, and it should not last 30+ hours.

 

[F4C430]

Is it a good idea to add skill checks (d20 dice, like dnd), to a game, even thou most players are just going to save scum, to get a success?

RNG-based skill checks can be fine for routine and repeatable events such as combat, looting, or working a shift for a job. I don't think it's a good idea for important events or one-time only events that will directly affect the rest of the player's playthrough. Failing solely because of RNG will always feel unfair. I think skill checks without RNG are still fine in those cases though as long as the player is given plenty of opportunity to improve the skills beforehand.

How would players feel if you use a set seed for the rng (random number generator), so they can't save scum. Will that detract from there enjoyment?

Is it really better for the player experience to not only be helpless against RNG but to also be locked into that bad RNG when loading a previous save? Of course it's going to detract from their enjoyment. Instead you should ask yourself what's wrong with your game design that you're considering locking players into a single RNG seed per playthrough to prevent a legitmate gameplay tactic?

I wonder even thou players save scum, you should still have the skill checks, because they feel like they beat the system? The question then is how much effort should you spend on making the fleshing out the failure path, if only a small portion of players are going to see that route?

No one else can answer this except the game architect who knows the overall game design because the rest of us don't know what's being made. Save scumming is not cheating. We do it either to save time (skipping a lot of tedious gameplay to get to the same point) or because the game isn't fair (bad RNG that the player has no control over or the game isn't fully transparent about decisions).

 

[nulnil]

The reason why D&D even uses dice rolls is because it's a table-top game. There's not much else to determine outcomes of actions.

Whatever you're doing, the answer is not adding RNG to whether an action succeeds or fails. The most likely issue is that the game doesn't have enough depth for success to feel 'deserved'.

If you're dead set on a quick and easy solution, use a QTE. It's shallow, but it's much more fair than facing off against RNGesus.

 

[Rafster]

I have something like the skill checks on the battles of my game (rather simple, it's made on each turn of the battle when the MC attacks). I like it, but some of my players would like to auto-win them.

This kind of mechanics are not for everyone. I like the random chance of failing even if your skill matches the condition, it keeps players on their toes. Of course, I had to dumb them down (the first version of my battles were hard, I had to readjust them to make them more accesible) to not make them frustrating.