Ren'Py Sprites vs complete scenes in 2D games?

[Selek]

I know there's an older thread on sprites vs complete scenes when using Daz. I've started working on 2D art for a game of my own, and I need to decide now whether I'll be using sprites or not. (Or whether to give up and use Daz, but that means upgrading my ancient system, including its GTX 980.) Sprites certainly save time. But do players increasingly prefer full scenes, even for 2D games?

My impression is that the Daz world is trending toward complete scenes, at least for H games, but I could be mistaken. Certainly games like Being a DIK have added impact because each screen is fully posed, with no vertical sprites in front of the scene. I know other Daz games still do use sprites (e.g., Love of Magic), and I enjoy those as well, but I wonder whether sprites will be much of a thing in Daz games a decade from now.

How about in 2D games? Games like What a Legend and Summertime Saga still use sprites interspersed with CG (full scenes). I really enjoy both those games. Do users cut 2D games more slack when it comes to sprites? Do any Renpy users actually prefer sprites?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts you might have.

 

[anne O'nymous]

How about in 2D games? Games like What a Legend and Summertime Saga still use sprites interspersed with CG (full scenes). I really enjoy both those games. Do users cut 2D games more slack when it comes to sprites? Do any Renpy users actually prefer sprites?

I think it totally depend of how it's done and the story itself.

By default, sprites fit better in 2D games than 3D ones, mostly because of a cognitive bias. You expect a 2D game to not looks realistic, so it don't feel odd that the sprite don't effectively fit the scene (not the right size, in top of a furniture, no shadow, and things like that). But for 3D games, you expect them to looks more like a photography, what make the proportion and position in regard of the background, really important. Bonus point if the background have shadows, but the sprite don't cast its own shadow.
But there's few, really few, 3D games where the sprites don't feel too odd. These games tend more on the pure entertainment side than on the "you'll like this story" one, and their game mechanism complete this. A striping game by example wouldn't feel odd with sprites, even if it's 3D one. But a more story based game would have difficulties if done with 3D sprites.

But in the end, even for 2D games it mostly depend of what the game will be. As you noticed yourself, nowadays, most 2D games rely on sprite only for the interaction parts. This mostly because it permit to goes further than 3D games, by example in term of customization of the characters. But once they goes on the story, therefore once the scene will be fully scripted, they tend to use full images, because it provide a better experience.

 

[Selek]

Thanks for that really thoughtful reply. You mentioned several considerations I hadn't thought of. Good food for thought.

FYI, I have in mind a story-based game, not just a stripping game or such. My main character is joining an institution that is full of rather assertive women...

Anyway, so far I find that even when I'm not trying to make a sprite, I tend to make scenes that have one or at most two characters standing right in front of the "camera." This often seems necessary to make clear who is speaking. This means the characters are not really affecting the background -- not casting shadows into it, for example. If this keeps up, I might as well use sprites. (I've been drawing my characters on separate layers, so I could easily save them out separately as sprites.)

That said, I have made one boudoir scene with a woman sitting on a bed, casting a shadow on it, and that certainly works better than a sprite for that situation. Obviously the same would be true of a full-on H scene.

Maybe the answer will be a compromise -- some sprites, but as many fully-rendered scenes as I can manage without my hand falling off from fatigue. Anyway, thanks again for the reply.

 

[KiaAzad]

Using sprites is more cost effective for those whom have to pay for each render. It all comes to the amount of time or money you're willing to spend on the game's assets.

 

[DuniX]

Full Scenes are an Incredibly Bad Habit in the Adult Game Market, especially since they are usually "story games".

Just because you can do it and you are working with Daz by necessity doesn't mean you need to make everything a rendered scene.

Visual Novel style Sprites can work well with 90% of the written content.
Developers need to treat it like writing a novel, completely worthless if it's not completed and doesn't go anywhere in years.
The only scenes should be when they start fucking or when it is something really important and impactful to the story that you emphasize .

 

[Eezergoode]

One nice thing about Daz is that you can basically do a fully rendered scene... but with sprites. As long as your camera doesn't move, and you either aren't worried about shadows, or have the lights/cameras set up in a way that you don't see the character shadows interacting with the background, you can render the whole background once, then just render the characters in the scene, but with most of the environment hidden. Saves a ton of render time, then you can composite the images together to make you scene. Using the one background render you did, and overlaying your "sprites" to make a final image. Granted, it isn't quite the same as using regular sprites, but it does allow for much faster scene creation, and if it is done right, looks as good, or almost as good, as fully rendering the scene with all the characters in it.

 

[DuniX]

One nice thing about Daz is that you can basically do a fully rendered scene... but with sprites.

The thing about sprites is you can reuse them in multiple spaces.
The difference between scene and sprites is not the images themselves.
It is whether they are unique to the scene or not.

 

[Eezergoode]

Oh I totally agree, and each have their place. I'm by no means 'experienced' in any visual form or art, but i prefer the Daz look for myself and my own venture. I like the "Fully rendered scene" look, but you can use Daz to make sprites and put them in a scene, and, if you do it right, it kind of LOOKS like a fully rendered scene, where, in fact, the background is only rendered once, and the characters and foreground items are rendered separately, and used as sprites. Or, you can render the sprites in Daz, and just use them as sprites without going for that particular look. I believe Lab Rats did it, although it's been ages since i played that, and I know there are a few more that I can't recall off the top of my head. If I didn't suck at Daz, I would be using it for my own game, creating my own graphics. As it is, I suck less at Daz than I suck at drawing. But I still suck at it.