Stylized 3D

[Douve]

I like both 3D and 2D games, but I think 2D offers more creativity and possibilities with art. And I'm not talking about art style only but also about what it offers, like I find it easier to do things like ahegao, sperm, facial expressions, wetness, and some more... (well basically fluids and expressions mostly) with 2D art.

The thing is 2D is limited by the talent of the artist while 3D seems to be limited by the software he uses (Daz, Honey select or idk what) and only the quality of the models and renders will change.
We can find things like :

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or even things like Arcane or Disney...
So why do we only have similar 3D style ? (I guess it's money and/or skill)
Also it would be great to have games that uses 3D but increase it with 2D details (like in spider-man next gen or The Witness from LD&R) or even something different.

So here's the thing why 3D games seems to be so limited and why no one try to mix 2D with 3D (I mean maybe it's done but idk about it) and wouldn't it be really cool ?

What do you think about that ? Do you think 3D have something that doesn't have 2D (in erotic games) ? And is there anyone willing to do something different (or has tried to do) ?

(To clarify things I'm only talking about art in ero-games here and not about cinema or art in general.)

 

[OsamiWorks]

I like both 3D and 2D games, but I think 2D offers more creativity and possibilities with art. And I'm not talking about art style only but also about what it offers, like I find it easier to do things like ahegao, sperm, facial expressions, wetness, and some more... (well basically fluids and expressions mostly) with 2D art.

The thing is 2D is limited by the talent of the artist while 3D seems to be limited by the software he uses (Daz, Honey select or idk what) and only the quality of the models and renders will change.
We can find things like :

Spoiler: This

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or

Spoiler: this

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or

Spoiler: this

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or even things like Arcane or Disney...
So why do we only have similar 3D style ? (I guess it's money and/or skill)
Also it would be great to have games that uses 3D but increase it with 2D details (like in spider-man next gen or The Witness from LD&R) or even something different.

So here's the thing why 3D games seems to be so limited and why no one try to mix 2D with 3D (I mean maybe it's done but idk about it) and wouldn't it be really cool ?

What do you think about that ? Do you think 3D have something that doesn't have 2D (in erotic games) ? And is there anyone willing to do something different (or has tried to do) ?

(To clarify things I'm only talking about art in ero-games here and not about cinema or art in general.)

The technical knowledge here is something youre really not seeing. 2d and 3d are already mixed and its not as easy as you make it out to be. Sculpting and texturing your 3d mesh like in the third pic is one thing, writing shaders to get effects like in the second pic is another. In animation, koikatsu looking models are used in anime, then things are animated out before they are finally sent to digital artists to draw over them and even then, its really uncommon with how much effort all of that takes.

Spoiler: This is an example of that

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Even if you have amazing 2d skills, think about how much you need to learn betweeen the basics like sketching, up through coloring, light and shadow, environment vs character design, just to even reach a point where you can make acceptable paintings or digital art with all of its post processing. There are very few people that know how to make maps for 3d models, which is something that requires all of those 2d skills, there are very few technical artists that know about shader programming alongside 2d skills, and when it comes to sculpting meshes you'll be hard pressed to find someone that really knows about animation and only a small subset of that know how to rig. A textured sculpt that you might see someone make doesnt move, and its drastically different than a rigged model that does. 3d art isnt limited by the software, but the amount of specialized knowledge and time it takes.

Then after all that imagine moving between multiple platforms to put something like a game together.

 

[Droid Productions]

OsamiWorks which anime is that? Looks fun.

 

[Meaning Less]

OsamiWorks which anime is that? Looks fun.

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[Douve]

The technical knowledge here is something youre really not seeing. 2d and 3d are already mixed and its not as easy as you make it out to be. Sculpting and texturing your 3d mesh like in the third pic is one thing, writing shaders to get effects like in the second pic is another. In animation, koikatsu looking models are used in anime, then things are animated out before they are finally sent to digital artists to draw over them and even then, its really uncommon with how much effort all of that takes.

Spoiler: This is an example of that

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Even if you have amazing 2d skills, think about how much you need to learn betweeen the basics like sketching, up through coloring, light and shadow, environment vs character design, just to even reach a point where you can make acceptable paintings or digital art with all of its post processing. There are very few people that know how to make maps for 3d models, which is something that requires all of those 2d skills, there are very few technical artists that know about shader programming alongside 2d skills, and when it comes to sculpting meshes you'll be hard pressed to find someone that really knows about animation and only a small subset of that know how to rig. A textured sculpt that you might see someone make doesnt move, and its drastically different than a rigged model that does. 3d art isnt limited by the software, but the amount of specialized knowledge and time it takes.

Then after all that imagine moving between multiple platforms to put something like a game together.

Yes but for the rig Daz already offers a rigged character (if i'm not wrong), so ofc you can't go for sculpted things but still can do something different with the basic character.

And otherwise 3D have one good point wich is when it's done it's done. So you can also hire someone to do the rig or whatever then use it after. Or even just a base character and then you customize it to have multiples characters.
I know 3D isn't limited by the software but here people seems to be.
I'm sure there are some really good 2D and 3D artists here (we can see it with some games) then I was just wondering why 3D games always looks the "same".
Even without going full artistic and creating your own game from scratch I'm pretty sure it's not impossible to do something that looks like, at least a bit, more diferent/original. (Not complaining I do really like some games here, just wondering. And i'd find it really cool. But I can understand it might be too hard or expensive.)

 

[Droid Productions]

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And onto the viewing cue it goes... first episode down, thx!

Having said that, I now totally want to recreate that scene in Love of Magic. I could totally see MC doing something like that (not in an accidental way, but just as a way to emphasize power in a single shot confrontation).

Damnit... down into the rabbit hole we go.
View attachment 2022-04-20 23-18-23.mp4

 

[Meaning Less]

I was just wondering why 3D games always looks the "same".

Quite simple actually, most adult devs aren't 3D nor 2D artists, because of that they are very limited in what they can do and in most cases they end up just downloading/buying the models and posing them around, that's why so many DAZ games look similar.

Same thing happens with many HS/KK devs, even though you can create a character with sliders there (a lot easier) for some reason many devs still skip this process and instead just use slightly edited version of default characters...

In short, because it is easier that way.

 

[Doorknob22]

Quite simple actually, most adult devs aren't 3D nor 2D artists, because of that they are very limited in what they can do and in most cases they end up just downloading/buying the models and posing them around, that's why so many DAZ games look similar.

Same thing happens with many HS/KK devs, even though you can create a character with sliders there (a lot easier) for some reason many devs still skip this process and instead just use slightly edited version of default characters...

In short, because it is easier that way.

This. We are amateurs who need to become story tellers, programmers, artists and marketeers in order to produce a decent porn game, more often than not in our spare time while juggling careers and family.

Just be thankful if the 3d artist whose game you're playing has a basic grasp of lighting and cares enough to ensure that the characters' feet are neither floating off the ground nor stuck two inches deep in it...

 

[OsamiWorks]

Yes but for the rig Daz already offers a rigged character (if i'm not wrong), so ofc you can't go for sculpted things but still can do something different with the basic character.

And otherwise 3D have one good point wich is when it's done it's done. So you can also hire someone to do the rig or whatever then use it after. Or even just a base character and then you customize it to have multiples characters.
I know 3D isn't limited by the software but here people seems to be.
I'm sure there are some really good 2D and 3D artists here (we can see it with some games) then I was just wondering why 3D games always looks the "same".
Even without going full artistic and creating your own game from scratch I'm pretty sure it's not impossible to do something that looks like, at least a bit, more diferent/original. (Not complaining I do really like some games here, just wondering. And i'd find it really cool. But I can understand it might be too hard or expensive.)

I'd disagree on the rigs, from what I've seen of the ones I've pulled out of games, they really are the bare minimum and often pretty bad. These are all things I've been spending time learning about recently so I figured I'd answer. It all comes down to a lack of time and knowledge across a number of skills. If you want to see changes and think you have an idea that would work, you should put in the effort to see it happen, if that means becoming an expert in making maps for your 3d models then you have a place too start with that much information.

 

[Douve]

We are amateurs who need to become story tellers, programmers, artists and marketeers in order to produce a decent porn game, more often than not in our spare time while juggling careers and family.

Yeah ofc I wasn't asking for small prods like you but more for games like AOA, Being a Dick or other "big" prods like this which I believe are teams and get more money (but ofc since they are teams it also means less money).

Just be thankful if the 3d artist whose game you're playing has a basic grasp of lighting and cares enough to ensure that the characters' feet are neither floating off the ground nor stuck two inches deep in it...

For sure I am !, don't get me wrong I wan't saying "wtf are you doing you lazy dev" I just wanted to know why there is no real diversity in therm of visuals.

I'd disagree on the rigs, from what I've seen of the ones I've pulled out of games, they really are the bare minimum and often pretty bad.

Ok got it !

If you want to see changes

Well no, I mean would be cool but I most likely wanted to know why about that and share my opinion which is : could be great to see something a bit original in an artistic way, something diferent don't you think ? But I do like how games are right now !

Thanks for the answers !

 

[aura95]

Here's a simple reason why we don't see more stylized 3D art in these games:

Because not only do you need the artistic talent to create that artstyle in the first place, but then you also need to build a whole coherent world based on that style.

DAZ is so popular because from the humans to facial expressions to cars and buildings you can buy (or pirate) basically everything you need as ready made packages and slot those right into your scenes. That's possible because there are literally thousands of individuals who built this asset pool up over time. And the reason all these assets fit (more or less) to one another is because they are all built in the same stlye, the one called realism.

But if you want to use your own unique artstyle this doesn't work anymore. Maybe you're lucky and you find a small handfull of pieces that kinda fit, but most won't. So then you need to make everything that's missing yourself.

And as a professional 3D artist I can only repeat what has been said already: That's a shit ton of work.
Even for a whole team of people (which you'll all have to pay).
And when fleshy, organic bits get involved that's easily quadrupel the shit ton of work.
Because even making something 'simple' like a knee behave the way it should can be an absolute nightmare in 3D...

Being a Dick

That one's actually made by a single guy, just fyi.
And the last time I looked he said he wants it to stay this way so he can keep the full creative control over the project.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

>Daz3D is popular> is a PBR engine with a all in one PBR shader> Can't make stylized (NPR) render.



Wow I'm shocked. (you wa shock in japanese)

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

That being said that iray toon renderer never been implemented in Daz (no outlines for you) :

 

[woody554]

along with others said, I have to question if it's even worth it to stylize 3d in 99% of porn games. I'm a graphics engineer, but still I'd far rather just paint over 3d than actually use/waste the time to model/render something significantly different than basic daz renders. and even then it's questionable if it adds to the game rather than adding another layer to exhaust yourself and make sure the game is abandoned early. it's not even close to the top of improvements our games desperately need. quality of art is the least of our problems.

all that said, running everything through some AI filter with little to no additional effort might be a good way to go. you see that a lot in 3d comics but almost never here. or even just basic color grading LUT to get everything look like kodak 2383. our 3d scenes never change significantly from render to another unlike real world, so you'd only have to color correct the first image in scene and then copy the grading over rest on the images.

 

[Douve]

I'd far rather just paint over 3d

Why not, can do great things just by doing that.

exhaust yourself and make sure the game is abandoned early.

But yeah, true...

 

[shabadu]

It's kind of the same reason why everyone uses some form of pre-built game engine like Renpy or Unity instead of writing their own from scratch. It takes a very specific set of skills to do, and requires a certain level of experience that you can't just get by watching some youtube tutorials. It is also a huge amount of time, effort, and potentially money spent on something that will by no means guarantee you'll end up with something good that people enjoy.

To give you more of an example of how hard and time consuming it can be to do what you're talking about, check out the thread here for a game called Afterglow. From what I can tell, the artist GaussianFracture took something like 3 years to develop and hone the style used for the game's characters, and that was on top of whatever experience they already had. Even then, from what I remember of the initial release, there were only something like 6 characters and no animations.

 

[fidless]

or even things like Arcane or Disney...
So why do we only have similar 3D style ? (I guess it's money and/or skill)

To answer your question. Most 3D devs use the same Daz3D software which accesses its environment and characters store. It's a poser software and its assets are mostly made for realism. The most used lightning technique (iray) also has little customization in how it lights the scene making scenes look similar without Photoshop post-production (realistic cast shadows and light).
Why does everyone use it? To save time and cost. Very few people care how a game is made. More work on dev side is not equal to more appreciation. Hiring someone to do is out of pocket for most devs too (consider that simple vtuber avatar and rigging cost around ~4-6k$)
But it is possible to customize characters a lot as there are hundreds/thousands of simple face sliders. It's not complicated.

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Why do most look the same?
Laziness (I see a lot of plug&play store characters in games. All it takes 30min or 1-2hours to make a somewhat unique character, but most devs ignore that part) or lack of artistic vision? Or just realism preference. Also, stylistic does not equal sexiness. I don't really imagine myself being aroused by some telltale-style graphics (like your #2 example and I think the majority would agree with that).

 

[Droid Productions]

I blame you, OsamiWorks I was supposed to be writing porn, not rendering a cutscene for Book 3.
View attachment not_just_because.mp4

 

[IronManFolgore]

I like both 3D and 2D games, but I think 2D offers more creativity and possibilities with art. And I'm not talking about art style only but also about what it offers, like I find it easier to do things like ahegao, sperm, facial expressions, wetness, and some more... (well basically fluids and expressions mostly) with 2D art.

The thing is 2D is limited by the talent of the artist while 3D seems to be limited by the software he uses (Daz, Honey select or idk what) and only the quality of the models and renders will change.
We can find things like :

Spoiler: This

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Spoiler: this

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Spoiler: this

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or even things like Arcane or Disney...
So why do we only have similar 3D style ? (I guess it's money and/or skill)
Also it would be great to have games that uses 3D but increase it with 2D details (like in spider-man next gen or The Witness from LD&R) or even something different.

So here's the thing why 3D games seems to be so limited and why no one try to mix 2D with 3D (I mean maybe it's done but idk about it) and wouldn't it be really cool ?

What do you think about that ? Do you think 3D have something that doesn't have 2D (in erotic games) ? And is there anyone willing to do something different (or has tried to do) ?

(To clarify things I'm only talking about art in ero-games here and not about cinema or art in general.)

Isn't stylized 3d art really hard to make since you're both making the 3d art and drawing over them with 2d art?

 

[shabadu]

Isn't stylized 3d art really hard to make since you're both making the 3d art and drawing over them with 2d art?

Yes, you're right on the money. If you check out the full credits for The Witness from Love, Death & Robots, which LileathMia specifically referenced, you'll see that there were 29 people working on the art, visual effects, and animation alone. Even with all those people, the end result was a 12 minute one-off animation.

That isn't to say that it was wasted effort - the episode won something like 3 Emmys for its animation - but to compare something like that with the amateur work of porn games where the development team typically consists of one person, and usually no more than a few, is imo asking for too much. I can understand not liking the samey look of the majority of 3DCG games, but with the current state of production tools and available assets, it's just one of those things that we have to live with.