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And then what? People will notice the sudden change when they move from chapter 5 to chapter 6 and start asking. What exactly will change then?
- Apr 23, 2019
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I don't think any game gets ruined by a few change of terms, specially when they are included to make the game even more unique and original.
Demon also doesn't fit the Sayna of the game. They have no interest in sin nor want to drag your soul to hell.
But you are, of course, entitled to your opinion.
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- Jun 21, 2017
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It's the witch hunter who gave you the mission to kill the witch. Just return to the bloody jaw tribe and there will be an event circle where the witch hunter was standing.
never mind, the problem was that I didn't see the hunter's event circle after talking to the witch, thx for the help
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Altough i don't appreciate babykeem honesty i understand what he means to some extend. Maybe the new names could have a different sound to match the race in question. Or it's just us that are not used to the sound of it. With time we can get used to it.
I do agree 100% with the vision of Zion of Olympus of distance the game from the concept of demons and angels and make the 2 factions unique without being link with the Universal idea of good and evil figures.
How do you get the dream stone, I have been trying to get it to acess the Angel Magical Ruin.
is there i way to download or find the succubus busts in HD ??? please D:
- Jun 21, 2017
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Oooh, boy.
I think this might be the right decision. Part of the contention you have currently is that a lot of your lore is influenced by Greek figures, both fictional and historical. It's hard to intertwine multiple cultures into a singular narrative without having a "dividing line" a la national borders or whichever. In this case, your biggest problem is having a mostly Greek influence spread across multiple nations(?) which runs against the concept of primarily-Christian forces affecting the world.
Traditionally, succubi fed off emotional energy and were careful to not cause a victim to expire too quickly. We'll get to that part after this.
One of the things that I saw some of your critics point out was that the narrative at the beginning of the game makes no sense. What highly-advanced civilization would have been pushed to the brink of extinction against the succubi? One of the main contradictions comes near the end of chapter 3, wherein a dwarven construct basically one-shots a succubus. Disregarding how much damage it actually did, the fact that succubi magic has zero influence on constructs basically undermines the entirety of the threat. If a construct is just better-suited for combat against succubi, why even have people fight them? Wouldn't an engineering guild operating on a global scale be better qualified overall?
The next issue is the logistics of the succubi as a whole. Even in nature, parasites aren't keen on letting a host expire too quickly. Their own survival relies heavily on the longevity of their host. If a host perishes too quickly, the parasite is at risk of expiration, too. That's why, in terms of logistics and survivability, it makes zero sense for the succubi to be so ruthless and blood-thirsty. I could even see it as, the lower ranks are more aggressive, yes, but only so blood-thirsty because they're so low in the pecking order. The higher ranks are clearly where they are for a reason.
Also, the succubi population would inevitably hit a critical mass given how they operate. Re-forming in Hell means no succubi ever truly "perish" and thusly there is never a power vacuum for the non-cosmic beings to exploit. This also means that, since succubi don't truly die, the heat-death of the universe will occur that much quicker. See: Halo for what happens when a parasite has no food source. Inevitably, that parasite has to either risk expiration, or go into a state of non-functioning akin to hibernation in order to continue existing.
"Monster girl" and "vampire" would also be applicable here. Or "evil female executive" for our Pixiv-savvy populace.
See, Abrahamic lore has been way too diluted by "Christian" morality. "Demons" and "Devils" were by and large more focused on turning people away from God than collecting points and full-blown corruption. A lot of Abrahamic lore has to do more with a power struggle on a cosmic scale more than anything.
I'm not a fan of "magical cosmic" anything. I think the issue is your disconnect from the larger narrative when it comes to your two opposing forces. We're presented the notion of science triumphs over "magic," yet largely told that "also, magic triumphs over magic." Power Rangers (the Zordon era, mainly) can get away with it because they still fall back on a meta-narrative of science vs magic, with science often winning. I don't need an in-depth lore read about how the morphing grid operates. I just need to understand how Rita makes monsters and how the technology the power rangers employ can be used to defeat said monsters.
Even then, PR has a weird relationship with technology on both sides. A lot Rita's monsters were the combination of bio-engineering and what we can only assume was mid-tier "magic" which could easily be explained as "her staff emits a signal specific to each monster to cause a rapid expansion of their biological mass," among other things. Again, I think "magic vs science" is fine as long as you can resolve the inconsistencies that such a narrative presents.
I would rather a narrative more focused on explaining the issues of logistics, arriving at critical mass in terms of succubi population, how some of the "magic" we've seen would actually operate on a more logical scale, etc. I feel like the narrative has a lot of potential, but has also been hampered by a lack of focus.
See, those are all really neat names for races rather than trying to play the more "magical" aspect up. I would say keep the idea of "magic" going forward until we get to a more modern era, and have it transition more towards "actually, the angel-women and demon-women are just aliens engaging in a galaxies-wide power struggle." Again, I point towards Halo for lore as to how several thousand years of conflict is feasible for two highly advanced races.
- Apr 23, 2019
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I answered a lot of these questions when I was discussing with another guys, specially about the "how can a advanced human race be fighting and struggling against the Sayna.
Unfortunately I don't have much time these days due to the dozens of projects we have under way. You can scroll a few pages back and you will get all your answers.
But basically, succubi did also evolved over time and they were being led by the Seven Deadly Sins, which not only empower them, but also act like goddesses/champions.
For more detailed explanation, please, start here:
Edit: There is a reason why the Dwarves ceased to exist. But that's a big spoiler for the series as a whole. Yes, the Dwarves were OP against magic, but something else is at work. I can't explain everything in 3 chapters. Some might even take Eras to explain.
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Honestly i think this a poor decision if I understand this. A succubus is going to be referred to as sayna in all cases now? Why create more work for your self revising the script? Why make the world harder to get into? The name of the series is succubus covenant, and if your trying to attract people who have this niche fetish they're not going to google sayna. Most fantasy worlds barrow existing concepts and put their own spins on them to make them unique. Nothing in this world is to weird that it doesn't fit existing fantasy terms. It just seems like a bizarre decision on many fronts.
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Another reason to change it. Like you said, many series use these terms.
"Succubi" might be used later by humans. But the race itself will call themselves Sayna/Saynas.
I remember that a friend of mine hated the fact that the angels in SC don't have bird-like wings. But for me, it couldn't have been better. They have this metallic wing that makes them original in appearance compared to other series.
I want to do that with the terms as well.
People that will pay attention to the story/lore will be rewarded for understanding. Those who do not will float around lost.
Not everyone will like this change. It is what it is.
Yeah but putting a spin on an existing fantasy creature doesn't mean you need to create a new term for them. A demon in Warcraft works different from a demon in christian mythology, but they are thematically the same so the guys who came up with Warcraft's lore borrowed that term to make the world easier to understand.
But whats the reasoning for making the world more obtuse on purpose. If you know people who casually follow the story will have a harder time understanding, what are you gaining in exchange for that? A large source of criticism in the reviews for the game is that the story is to convoluted.
I mean you have agency in this. You could not change it. I don't think this change is the biggest deal in the world, it's just I don't see any benefits to doing this.
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- May 3, 2018
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To clarify, I am only quoting the answers to another user. Those seeking context, see post #4,777.
Your narrative hasn't rely given us too much insight into the future era, so I won't harp on the tactics of either side. What I will say is, if the succubi haven't prepared a similar strategy, then they're going to inevitably lose, and it's a bit weird that Humanity hasn't simply figured out how to deal with them by this point. Heck, in DS9, the ability of the Founders was ultimately dealt with (temporarily) by taking blood samples. it's not improbable that Humanity could figure out a way to resist the temptation or whatever off-shoot was bred for.
It's way too many hoops to justify Humanity not simply focusing their development on the capture and exploitation of succubi as an energy source.
I have looked at the reviews, by the way. The reviews which issue fair criticisms and speculation are largely ignored by you, but have a large majority of approval from other users. Those reviews that say nothing and are rife with empty praise from people who probably haven't played since 0.1, you've personally given favour to. I'm not going to insult you, but it doesn't take someone with an above average intelligence to speculate your approach to criticism.
I won't say anymore, since this is already plenty long-winded. I will say that, going forward, I do hope a lot of the seeds you've planted in your narrative grow to be sturdy trees. I can see the roots of potential that your narrative possesses. Just don't get caught up in the praise.
“The trouble with most of us is that we'd rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism.”
– Norman Vincent Peale
Your main contention at that point is, again, a logistical one. If evolution makes them basically unstoppable to any advanced civilization, they basically run into the issue of being too dominant a hunter. For example, the spinosaurus was the perfect predator on an evolutionary scale. It also relied heavily on consuming meat-based prey. Once that option diminished significantly, the spinosaurus was among the first dinosaur species to face extinction. It's a similar case with different species nowadays, too. A lack of livable habitat, diminishing prey, etc are factors that can result in a species extinction. Succubi might even feel inclined to revert to a more bronze age mindset solely to enable their preferred prey a chance at longevity.
The main difference between the Reapers and the Citadel races was, there was no argument as to who was technologically-superior. We were also told during a cutscene what they were up to. You could write out bad fanfiction about their true intent, but with what the first game gave us, it would only be that. You say the DNA thingy might not be Human, even. That's fine. We've seen in Halo and even Mass Effect that the adoption of technology by those who discovered it is a thing. The problem with your argument is that, in ME, the Reaper's had planted the relays in order to make their task easier. We also learn that using the relays for such a massive fleet movement would be woefully long and likely give a sufficiently-advanced race time to prepare, hence the Citadel relay. Being able to drop in on your presumed prey without time for them to prepare is strategically-sound.
Your narrative hasn't rely given us too much insight into the future era, so I won't harp on the tactics of either side. What I will say is, if the succubi haven't prepared a similar strategy, then they're going to inevitably lose, and it's a bit weird that Humanity hasn't simply figured out how to deal with them by this point. Heck, in DS9, the ability of the Founders was ultimately dealt with (temporarily) by taking blood samples. it's not improbable that Humanity could figure out a way to resist the temptation or whatever off-shoot was bred for.
I can't speak too much to future plans, but let's say that the succubi are energy-based beings who drain the energy of "lesser" races to sustain themselves. Manifesting an avatar a la Kyubey's whole "I have millions of bodies" trick would be cool. As you have it now, we're told that the succubi are just kind of... there. They're a bad joke on the (presumed) primordial nature of the WG, who, on his own, is basically a bad Nyarlathotep cosplay. Putting that aside, if Succubi could be killed, wouldn't it make sense that the Angel's had figured out how by now? Why keep Humanity nerfed? What race creates a "sacred relic" that can be turned on them by the people who they charge with doing their "dirty work." Heck, we hear nothing of why the Angel's and Succubi hate each other, or are warring.
That kind of defeats the purpose of trying to defeat them, then. You're trying to starve out a species via denial that will inevitably return. Heck, even the Angel's know as much, which I could feasibly see causing discontent among their ranks. It's basically saying that, rather than develop methods of keeping the succubi from manifesting or something, you're content to let the non-cosmic races engage in a losing war of attrition. Seems like a really bad way to keep everyone on the same team.
This in itself is a major plot error without anyone realizing it. We assume that curses require substantial amounts of energy, and succubi seem capable of using them on a whim. Why would Humanity not develop succubus-capture technology to harness the energy of succubi? You could argue that the succubi developing at the same rate as Humanity keeps this from happening. The issue there, though, once again stems from hitting a singularity among the succubi. Queen Domina can only stay in power as long as a direct equivalent (or better) to her power doesn't emerge. And, assuming that the Succubus Hierarchy is thrown into chaos due to that, what keeps Humanity from working with certain succubi factions to develop said technology? Sure, you could argue that the succubi would ensure failsafes. But, the Angel's might see fit to dismantle said failsafes.
It's way too many hoops to justify Humanity not simply focusing their development on the capture and exploitation of succubi as an energy source.
This is incredibly unfair and patronizing. He can't draw any conclusions from anything he doesn't know, sure. The issue you draw from his review is that you know things that he doesn't. Rather than view things from the perspective of the player, you presume that when all is said and done, the brilliance of your narrative will dismantle any derision. That's not how this works. Your game is still in-development, so his speculation is actually fully justified. Rather than punching down those who don't post favourable reviews, you should be taking cues and giving their criticisms a bit more weight.
I have looked at the reviews, by the way. The reviews which issue fair criticisms and speculation are largely ignored by you, but have a large majority of approval from other users. Those reviews that say nothing and are rife with empty praise from people who probably haven't played since 0.1, you've personally given favour to. I'm not going to insult you, but it doesn't take someone with an above average intelligence to speculate your approach to criticism.
I won't say anymore, since this is already plenty long-winded. I will say that, going forward, I do hope a lot of the seeds you've planted in your narrative grow to be sturdy trees. I can see the roots of potential that your narrative possesses. Just don't get caught up in the praise.
“The trouble with most of us is that we'd rather be ruined by praise than saved by criticism.”
– Norman Vincent Peale
- Apr 23, 2019
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I wish I had the time to go all over this again, but I don't. There are other comments after this one. It was a long discussion.
All I can say is: Please, wait for the series to unfold. You and him are drawing conclusions for the 20th game with only 3 chapters of the first game available for the series as a whole.
I apologize if I can't fit all the answers you seek in 3 chapters for a series that is intended to have 100. Perhaps I'm simply incompetent, even though people complain that there is already too much information per chapter.
Some points might even take Eras to explain. It is what it is.
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The thing is, it shouldn't take 20 games to establish an overarching narrative. As someone who struggled to get his own novel figured out, your story and world should be relatively simple to figure out within the first handful of chapters. In Naruto, for example, we understand how the power system operates, the world at large, and the stakes of each encounter. Life is fleeting, unless you know an Uchiha.
I've seen that the main complaint is that you force us to endure the cut-scenes after wading through an over-abundance of generic enemies that don't further the endgame, but feel more like an excuse to drag the game out. I understand the why for generic enemies, even if I think you're doing yourself a disservice in using them at all. The larger problem isn't a lack of competence, but a lack of focus on what's important. You want to tell this sprawling narrative and, while I admire the obvious Greek influences, I also feel like between the unskippable cut-scenes and lackluster gameplay, the porn is the only real thing going for the game at this point. That really sucks to say, but yeah.
I think that's a bit too defeatist. As someone who has written his own novel, one of the things I noticed is that too often in my early drafts, I got caught up on trying to convey something in multiple ways while also doing little to further the narrative. It's fine to shift focus every now and then, but that's just it. Every now and then. I'm assuming this is going to 5 chapters long, with the first era occupying 5 games. Why not have the first 4 games focus on each individual Hunter's experience rather than forcing us out of the current Hunter's narrative? It allows each story time to develop and gives the player time to breath before you bring everything together for the final game in that era.
Something else I noticed is that, in one cut-scene, you treat us to the largely impotent trappings of democratic discourse. What purpose does this discourse serve? Why should we care enough to see politicians argue about whether they should do something or not? Couldn't the outcome of that entire debate been instead relegated to a mention in the following cut-scene? In fact, that entire part of the story could have been fine with a single cut-scene. There is a lot of narrative "chaff" that doesn't really serve the story as a whole, except to pad it out. I think something you need to consider is either hiring an editor, or getting a few of your supporters to go through your script and help you find the parts that could either be shortened, or cut altogether. It would simultaneously serve your narrative better and reduce the frustration a lot of us feel towards the cut-scenes.
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Thank you for your interest in the game. I'll take some of your points into consideration and will use them the best I can.
I wish you the best.