Archived Summertime Saga: Incest mod(s). Solutions?

[robertj]

The only thing that i can think is that if there was some way to have the scrip not in renpy format us can help to read and change all the text in there. And then update it here where they can how to say modifie for let ranpy read it again.

Ren'py files are just text files with a .rpy extension, you can even open them with the Windows Notepad. Anyone that knows how to unpack an rpa file and then decompile the rpyc's(easier than it sounds) could contribute for future updates. Breaking up the work where everyone only had to look through their own small portion of the files would speed things up significantly.

 

[j4yj4m]

Sorry, but I totally reject the idea that incest wasn't the main focus of this game. Yes, there are more non-related characters that the MC will end up having sex with, but who were the first characters to be given sex scenes in this game? The Aunt, the sister and the Mom. If the main focus wasn't incest, then surely characters like Roxxy, Mia, Eve, and maybe Mrs Johnson as the MC's milf next door would've been the first to receive sex scenes. Also, who were the first characters to receive pregnancy updates, albeit by public vote? Diane and Jenny, a.k.a. Aunt and sister.

Well, you may reject it, but that doesn't make it anymore true in my opinion. The game was never meant to be like DMD, BigBrother and others where it's basically just about the incest. I mean, alone the fact that you won't be able to date neither Diane nor Jenny or take them to prom shows that. It was always meant to be a virtual novel/dating sim, where you can basically fuck the whole town (which obviously would include relatives) and that's how it has been advertised from day one.

What you are describing are the necessary developments for a boy who still goes to school and who still lives with his familie, loses his dad, etc. but it never was meant to be "the end game". Yes, Incest is a part of the story but it's not what the story is about. It has never been like for example SnowDaze where the player knew he'd have to conquer his house and that's it.

Or to put if differently, the game could have been in the current, slightly adapted setting from the start and things would have been fine. Of course, incest was a major fetish at the time and every devs wants to include it (especially when it's in a school setting) but that doesn't make every game which has incest somewhere "about" incest. As said, DMD for example doesn't make any sense without the incest, which is the complete opposite of SummertimeSaga.

Else it's not true that other characters will have smaller stories. Roxxy's story for example is quite a bit bigger than Diane's and the other schoolgirls will follow, especially once the dating system actually works and MC can go to dates and start his harem in the beach house. There are basically 9 main girls in the game who will have more or less equal amount of content once it's finished. We've got Debbie, Jenny, Diane as family and Roxxy, Eve, Mia, Ronda, Annie and Judith as other girls. Else there are some intermediate characters like June, Mrs. Johnson, Helen and the teachers, etc. who'll get more content than just one scene but not as much as the main cast. To me that's a vast range which dwarfs the incest, especially since one will actually be able to finish the game without having sex with family members (at least as things stand now).

Also, who were the first characters to receive pregnancy updates, albeit by public vote? Diane and Jenny, a.k.a. Aunt and sister.

Well, that's partly for "technical"reasons. Their stories where the first to start, their stories will be the first to finish (I mean, you can't introcude pregnancy until a character's story is done,right?) and their stories have to be reworked now because the code base has to be changed and because they cause bugs and problems (like the odd reliance on Jenny/Somrak for Dex,which will be changed). I mean, it's not like DC gaves us any options, so it wasn't really a public vote, but a poll solely between Diane and Jenny. That said, I still think they would have won somewhat close, simply because people always liked to conitue characters who already had some content and yes, because there are people who like incest.

 

[rommeltje]

To get back to the incest mod topic: once all the old code has been replaced by the new one, and old saves will stay compatible with subsequent versions, will making the patch become easier as well?

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Well, you may reject it, but that doesn't make it anymore true in my opinion. The game was never meant to be like DMD, BigBrother and others where it's basically just about the incest. I mean, alone the fact that you won't be able to date neither Diane nor Jenny or take them to prom shows that. It was always meant to be a virtual novel/dating sim, where you can basically fuck the whole town (which obviously would include relatives) and that's how it has been advertised from day one.

What you are describing are the necessary developments for a boy who still goes to school and who still lives with his familie, loses his dad, etc. but it never was meant to be "the end game". Yes, Incest is a part of the story but it's not what the story is about. It has never been like for example SnowDaze where the player knew he'd have to conquer his house and that's it.

Or to put if differently, the game could have been in the current, slightly adapted setting from the start and things would have been fine. Of course, incest was a major fetish at the time and every devs wants to include it (especially when it's in a school setting) but that doesn't make every game which has incest somewhere "about" incest. As said, DMD for example doesn't make any sense without the incest, which is the complete opposite of SummertimeSaga.

Else it's not true that other characters will have smaller stories. Roxxy's story for example is quite a bit bigger than Diane's and the other schoolgirls will follow, especially once the dating system actually works and MC can go to dates and start his harem in the beach house. There are basically 9 main girls in the game who will have more or less equal amount of content once it's finished. We've got Debbie, Jenny, Diane as family and Roxxy, Eve, Mia, Ronda, Annie and Judith as other girls. Else there are some intermediate characters like June, Mrs. Johnson, Helen and the teachers, etc. who'll get more content than just one scene but not as much as the main cast. To me that's a vast range which dwarfs the incest, especially since one will actually be able to finish the game without having sex with family members (at least as things stand now).


Well, that's partly for "technical"reasons. Their stories where the first to start, their stories will be the first to finish (I mean, you can't introcude pregnancy until a character's story is done,right?) and their stories have to be reworked now because the code base has to be changed and because they cause bugs and problems (like the odd reliance on Jenny/Somrak for Dex,which will be changed). I mean, it's not like DC gaves us any options, so it wasn't really a public vote, but a poll solely between Diane and Jenny. That said, I still think they would have won somewhat close, simply because people always liked to conitue characters who already had some content and yes, because there are people who like incest.

Whether a game is solely about incest or incest is part of a larger game with multiple characters, it is still typically linked to or forms the basis of the main story. The family members that the playable character has sex with are invariably the main characters of their story and every other character is a side character that they meet along the way. Yes, Roxxy has a large story arc in the game, but I did say she was the exception to this general rule of thumb for incest games.

Summertime Saga does have a large cast of fuckable characters, larger than most other games, and we don't yet know what the "endgame" is for the MC and all these characters, but who's to say that he won't be able to take his Mom (Debbie) and sister (Jenny) out on dates in this promised dating system? After all, since they're not related anymore in the official version of the game, there's nothing to stop the MC from wanting to go on dates with them, right? And even in an incest version, this would just be the MC trying to do something nice for his Mom and sister in his role as "man of the house". For all we know, the "endgame" could see the MC in a polygamous relationship with his Mom, sister, and Roxxy.

The only way this game could not be considered an incest game is if it becomes so user-controlled as to allow players to choose who they do and don't pursue ultimately leading to players not needing to engage in relations with their family members in order to advance through the story. As it stands right now, the game forces you into sexual situations with family members in order to advance the story and these moments often play pivotal roles in the overall story. There's also the fact that the MC makes a declaration of romantic love for his Mom which is reciprocated and he attempts to do the same with his sister who, despite cutting him off, seems receptive to it. Not even Roxxy has had this declaration of love which is, again, a typical aspect of incest games where the MC and his family members develop romantic feelings for one another.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

To get back to the incest mod topic: once all the old code has been replaced by the new one, and old saves will stay compatible with subsequent versions, will making the patch become easier as well?

No, because it's not about saves it's about the script which has to be rewritten in every new version since it's not possible to make an adaptive script that simply changes names like Debbie, Jenny and Diane to Mom, sister, and Aunt Diane respectively for each new update. Much of the dialogue in this game is situational and not as generic as most other games, so just replacing names will not make sense in certain parts of the dialogue. Knowing what parts to change with each new update does, in theory make it somewhat easy when you know what to replace and where it is, but you still have to do this manually as well as checking all the new dialogue in case parts of it need changing too.

Basically, there is no easy way to do it as a modder.

 

[rommeltje]

No, because it's not about saves it's about the script which has to be rewritten in every new version since it's not possible to make an adaptive script that simply changes names like Debbie, Jenny and Diane to Mom, sister, and Aunt Diane respectively for each new update. Much of the dialogue in this game is situational and not as generic as most other games, so just replacing names will not make sense in certain parts of the dialogue. Knowing what parts to change with each new update does, in theory make it somewhat easy when you know what to replace and where it is, but you still have to do this manually as well as checking all the new dialogue in case parts of it need changing too.

Basically, there is no easy way to do it as a modder.

Oh, I thought the difficulty was that not only the dialogue had to be rewritten, but part of the code as well. And that that was what made it extra hard, because the code keeps changing with every update.

Good to know.

 

[j4yj4m]

Whether a game is solely about incest or incest is part of a larger game with multiple characters, it is still typically linked to or forms the basis of the main story. The family members that the playable character has sex with are invariably the main characters of their story and every other character is a side character that they meet along the way. Yes, Roxxy has a large story arc in the game, but I did say she was the exception to this general rule of thumb for incest games.

Well, according to DC the other girls I mentioned will get content similar to Roxxy's, wether you like it or not. So she won't be the exception. If you don't believe me, you may ask DC while he's streaming.

Summertime Saga does have a large cast of fuckable characters, larger than most other games, and we don't yet know what the "endgame" is for the MC and all these characters, but who's to say that he won't be able to take his Mom (Debbie) and sister (Jenny) out on dates in this promised dating system? After all, since they're not related anymore in the official version of the game, there's nothing to stop the MC from wanting to go on dates with them, right? And even in an incest version, this would just be the MC trying to do something nice for his Mom and sister in his role as "man of the house". For all we know, the "endgame" could see the MC in a polygamous relationship with his Mom, sister, and Roxxy.

DC talks a lot on streams, about what's going to happen and what's not going to happen. The dating system will be for schoolgirls only, at least that's what he's been saying for quite some time now. Of course there's always the possibility that he'll change his plans but I don't see any indication for that. Else it's true that MC will probably be able to take Debbie as "mom" to prom (likely when he "fails" to get another girl), but not Diane or Jenny. That may or may not change, but that's what DC said.

The only way this game could not be considered an incest game is if it becomes so user-controlled as to allow players to choose who they do and don't pursue ultimately leading to players not needing to engage in relations with their family members in order to advance through the story. As it stands right now, the game forces you into sexual situations with family members in order to advance the story and these moments often play pivotal roles in the overall story. There's also the fact that the MC makes a declaration of romantic love for his Mom which is reciprocated and he attempts to do the same with his sister who, despite cutting him off, seems receptive to it. Not even Roxxy has had this declaration of love which is, again, a typical aspect of incest games where the MC and his family members develop romantic feelings for one another.

No, the game really doesn't force you and it will force you even less in the future. You can play the game without finishing Debbie's or Diane's story and as soon as Jenny's update drops and the Dex connection is removed you likely won't have engage with her either.

And yes, there's a lot of incest, but it'll become less and less of the overall content and it's certainly not mandatory.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Oh, I thought the difficulty was that not only the dialogue had to be rewritten, but part of the code as well. And that that was what made it extra hard, because the code keeps changing with every update.

Good to know.

The difficulty comes in decompiling the rpa files to turn them into an editable format so that the script can be altered which, according to @robertj. is spread over several files and then you have to recompile these back into a rpa file. I think a small amount of code is needed to make this patch file overwrite the original one, but mainly it's the decompiling and going through all the different files to change every relevant piece of dialogue.

 

[robertj]

The difficulty comes in decompiling the rpa files to turn them into an editable format so that the script can be altered which, according to @robertj. is spread over several files and then you have to recompile these back into a rpa file. I think a small amount of code is needed to make this patch file overwrite the original one, but mainly it's the decompiling and going through all the different files to change every relevant piece of dialogue.

I may not have explained it well enough. Ripping it out of an rpa file and decompiling the rpyc's is fairly easy, it's literally two commands inside a dos prompt.

The hard part is the ten of thousands of lines of code you have to look over. There are(currently) 1,556 files in 234 folders in the game's scripts folder, of which a large portion contain dialogue that has to be checked.

The only way patching this would ever be easy is if the dev's gave us a list of files they modified with each patch. If we had that then we'd most likely be able to patch on the same day as release because we'd know exactly where to go to make corrections to the previous patch.

 

[rommeltje]

The hard part is the tens of thousands of lines of code you have to look over. There are (currently) 1,556 files in 234 folders in the game's scripts folder, of which a large portion contain dialogue that has to be checked.

Ah, that makes sense. Thanks for explaining that.

And I just noticed you've

You must be registered to see the links

! Why didn't you say so? Thanks for your hard work! Going to try it tonight.

 

[manneychin]

I may not have explained it well enough. Ripping it out of an rpa file and decompiling the rpyc's is fairly easy, it's literally two commands inside a dos prompt.

The hard part is the ten of thousands of lines of code you have to look over. There are(currently) 1,556 files in 234 folders in the game's scripts folder, of which a large portion contain dialogue that has to be checked.

The only way patching this would ever be easy is if the dev's gave us a list of files they modified with each patch. If we had that then we'd most likely be able to patch on the same day as release because we'd know exactly where to go to make corrections to the previous patch.

I see 2 major problems:

1) I haven't looked at a source diff of v0.16.1 vs. v0.17.5 but it's obvious the latter doesn't just add content on top of the former. v0.17.5 changes screenplay from v0.16.1 a LOT, shuffling many lines around, moving them between files, rewriting lines, etc. This makes it difficult or impossible to just do a diff between the 2 versions and pay attention only to new content in how it needs to be patched. This work would be doable in a few days. Instead, one needs to reread the whole game screenplay embedded in source files which is extremely time consuming and 100% not worth doing for free for every release.

2) SS is actually no longer an incest game in a very deep sense. To have an incest game you need the screenplay to be built around this premise, dragging along artwork and player choices/interactions. You need the buildups, you need the kinks, the awkwardness, the taboo, etc. etc. When DC removed incest from SS he did more than just rename the characters, he butchered the screenplay so that it's now largely a bad fit with the initial incest premise both around MC's family and around other families in game. To get SS to be an decently good incest game again you would need some kind of a wizard fan that is willing to rewrite the story as best as possible and try to fit incest in, all while NOT altering artwork or most of the existent choices. This is realistically impossible.

1 + 2 = Everyone must tune their expectations. If we don't find a way to pay for a good incest mod then SS will never be a good incest game again simply because it's obviously monumentally difficult for any one fan to make it so.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I may not have explained it well enough. Ripping it out of an rpa file and decompiling the rpyc's is fairly easy, it's literally two commands inside a dos prompt.

The hard part is the ten of thousands of lines of code you have to look over. There are(currently) 1,556 files in 234 folders in the game's scripts folder, of which a large portion contain dialogue that has to be checked.

The only way patching this would ever be easy is if the dev's gave us a list of files they modified with each patch. If we had that then we'd most likely be able to patch on the same day as release because we'd know exactly where to go to make corrections to the previous patch.

Ah, OK, I though both parts were hard. But seriously, that is a shit tonne of files to spread the dialogue across, so kudos to you and anyone else willing to go through all that. Now I'm not so sure I'd have the patience for that.

 

[robertj]

I see 2 major problems:

1) I haven't looked at a source diff of v0.16.1 vs. v0.17.5 but it's obvious the latter doesn't just add content on top of the former. v0.17.5 changes screenplay from v0.16.1 a LOT, shuffling many lines around, moving them between files, rewriting lines, etc. This makes it difficult or impossible to just do a diff between the 2 versions and pay attention only to new content in how it needs to be patched. This work would be doable in a few days. Instead, one needs to reread the whole game screenplay embedded in source files which is extremely time consuming and 100% not worth doing for free for every release.

2) SS is actually no longer an incest game in a very deep sense. To have an incest game you need the screenplay to be built around this premise, dragging along artwork and player choices/interactions. You need the buildups, you need the kinks, the awkwardness, the taboo, etc. etc. When DC removed incest from SS he did more than just rename the characters, he butchered the screenplay so that it's now largely a bad fit with the initial incest premise both around MC's family and around other families in game. To get SS to be an decently good incest game again you would need some kind of a wizard fan that is willing to rewrite the story as best as possible and try to fit incest in, all while NOT altering artwork or most of the existent choices. This is realistically impossible.

1 + 2 = Everyone must tune their expectations. If we don't find a way to pay for a good incest mod then SS will never be a good incest game again simply because it's obviously monumentally difficult for any one fan to make it so.

In regards to 1, this is why a list of modified files would be useful. They have dialogue in both location and character folders, so if you know they've only modified specific files, you only have to look at those files, nothing else changed. So instead of having to look over 1,500 some files, you'd only have to look at 240 for example. Getting a list like that is a pipe dream though, making the whole discussion a moot point.

As for 2, you're right up to a point that it's realistically impossible. It would be possible once a final version is out to get a writer and coder together to fix it since no more changes would be coming. Until then I wouldn't touch it, though.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

I see 2 major problems:

1) I haven't looked at a source diff of v0.16.1 vs. v0.17.5 but it's obvious the latter doesn't just add content on top of the former. v0.17.5 changes screenplay from v0.16.1 a LOT, shuffling many lines around, moving them between files, rewriting lines, etc. This makes it difficult or impossible to just do a diff between the 2 versions and pay attention only to new content in how it needs to be patched. This work would be doable in a few days. Instead, one needs to reread the whole game screenplay embedded in source files which is extremely time consuming and 100% not worth doing for free for every release.

2) SS is actually no longer an incest game in a very deep sense. To have an incest game you need the screenplay to be built around this premise, dragging along artwork and player choices/interactions. You need the buildups, you need the kinks, the awkwardness, the taboo, etc. etc. When DC removed incest from SS he did more than just rename the characters, he butchered the screenplay so that it's now largely a bad fit with the initial incest premise both around MC's family and around other families in game. To get SS to be an decently good incest game again you would need some kind of a wizard fan that is willing to rewrite the story as best as possible and try to fit incest in, all while NOT altering artwork or most of the existent choices. This is realistically impossible.

1 + 2 = Everyone must tune their expectations. If we don't find a way to pay for a good incest mod then SS will never be a good incest game again simply because it's obviously monumentally difficult for any one fan to make it so.

For number 2, I feel like going back to the version before the rule changes were put in place would at least allow a modder to know what certain dialogue lines were before the change and then just re-enter them via the patch. New lines would, of course, have to be altered if they don't make much sense in an incest context, but newer updates should hopefully have fewer of them to change than doing the entire game all at once.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

In regards to 1, this is why a list of modified files would be useful. They have dialogue in both location and character folders, so if you know they've only modified specific files, you only have to look at those files, nothing else changed. So instead of having to look over 1,500 some files, you'd only have to look at 240 for example. Getting a list like that is a pipe dream though, making the whole discussion a moot point.

As for 2, you're right up to a point that it's realistically impossible. It would be possible once a final version is out to get a writer and coder together to fix it since no more changes would be coming. Until then I wouldn't touch it, though.

I feel like DC could easily include a Changelog.txt file in every new update which notes the changed files and maybe even which number the lines of code are on.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

Serious question here: is it really against Patreon's TOS for a game creator to create their own incest patch and then release it on a site like this? Even though the main game on their site would have no incest, would it maybe be to do with the fact that a patch such as this could be seen as something that was funded through Patreon and thus violates TOS even though the primary game doesn't have this content?

 

[manneychin]

Serious question here: is it really against Patreon's TOS for a game creator to create their own incest patch and then release it on a site like this? Even though the main game on their site would have no incest, would it maybe be to do with the fact that a patch such as this could be seen as something that was funded through Patreon and thus violates TOS even though the primary game doesn't have this content?

Yes, it is, but please stop debating it in this thread because it inflates the thread with replies that are not about this thread's topic, which is how to solve the problem with a 3rd party mod.

 

[manneychin]

In regards to 1, this is why a list of modified files would be useful. They have dialogue in both location and character folders, so if you know they've only modified specific files, you only have to look at those files, nothing else changed. So instead of having to look over 1,500 some files, you'd only have to look at 240 for example. Getting a list like that is a pipe dream though, making the whole discussion a moot point.

As for 2, you're right up to a point that it's realistically impossible. It would be possible once a final version is out to get a writer and coder together to fix it since no more changes would be coming. Until then I wouldn't touch it, though.

I don't know if you're a dev but there is no need for a list of files that changed because a tool can tell you that.

Take a look below. I happen to have v0.4 and v0.5 of "Jessie: Mother's Sins" which uses the same tech as SS except SS needs to be unpacked and decompiled while Jessie already comes like that.

A 5 second comparison of the 2 releases tells you which files are the same and which changed (v0.5 on the left, v0.4 on the right):



You can see immediately:
- Dev changed image format from .png to .jpg for main game images
- Dev adds content in v0.5 primarily via script2.rpy (which references artwork and all other props), which is missing from v0.4
- Dev made some changes to screenplay for previous version in script1.rpy but diving into a comparison of the two you can see the changes are very minimal (usually it's bug fixes or small rephrasing/screenplay corrections but in this case he just added a bit at the end):



The problem with SS is DC doesn't have a coherent vision that is built across multiple releases by adding content. Instead, he keeps going back and changing what was already shipped which is greatly aggravated by the fact that SS source files (*.rpy) are a lot more and a lot more complex than in my example, leading to an extremely difficult comparison between releases, I think.

 

[robertj]

I don't know if you're a dev but there is no need for a list of files that changed because a tool can tell you that.

Hah, that's how fried my brain is from looking through all that code that I didn't think of that. Good catch.

The problem with SS is DC doesn't have a coherent vision that is built across multiple releases by adding content. Instead, he keeps going back and changing what was already shipped which is greatly aggravated by the fact that SS source files (*.rpy) are a lot more and a lot more complex than in my example, leading to an extremely difficult comparison between releases, I think.

I believe that Jenny is the last one still on the old code base?(I skipped characters that had no interaction with incest so not 100% on that) If so, update v0.18 should be the last hard one to deal with since Jenny's the focus of it, meaning future updates should bring fewer changes to existing code. DC didn't write his code in a very modular fashion, the new team seems to be doing a better job of that - The location dialogue is broken up to those specific rooms, and the character menu dialogue is set to each person now for the most part.

 

[Ying Ko]

I don't know if you're a dev but there is no need for a list of files that changed because a tool can tell you that.

Take a look below. I happen to have v0.4 and v0.5 of "Jessie: Mother's Sins" which uses the same tech as SS except SS needs to be unpacked and decompiled while Jessie already comes like that.

A 5 second comparison of the 2 releases tells you which files are the same and which changed (v0.5 on the left, v0.4 on the right):

View attachment 204664

You can see immediately:
- Dev changed image format from .png to .jpg for main game images
- Dev adds content in v0.5 primarily via script2.rpy (which references artwork and all other props), which is missing from v0.4
- Dev made some changes to screenplay for previous version in script1.rpy but diving into a comparison of the two you can see the changes are very minimal (usually it's bug fixes or small rephrasing/screenplay corrections but in this case he just added a bit at the end):

View attachment 204676

The problem with SS is DC doesn't have a coherent vision that is built across multiple releases by adding content. Instead, he keeps going back and changing what was already shipped which is greatly aggravated by the fact that SS source files (*.rpy) are a lot more and a lot more complex than in my example, leading to an extremely difficult comparison between releases, I think.

What tool are you using here?