Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5258] [Kompas Productions]

[RedGlow]

Better question is why you think reality is drama ?

Most people who've ever touched a keyboard to program know that every bug they fix introduces the chance for more elements to break. It's the rule 0 of programming.

Reality? OK.
Bugfix is a task along with others. Just because it takes longer than other tasks doesn't decrease the whole progress bar to 90%.
Do you know why sometimes loading goes to 99 fast but takes more time to finish that 1%? I am being realistic here.
As for drama, you are right, people are trying to create drama here with giving false information about progress.

 

[Jerghaal]

They will wait for Nov before they release it. It's not been 6 months yet (that's how long it takes for a patch to come out) and 2, they'll wait till the first so money comes in before they release 0.19.

 

[ZTex]

Reality? OK.
Bugfix is a task along with others. Just because it takes longer than other tasks doesn't decrease the whole progress bar to 90%.
Do you know why sometimes loading goes to 99 fast but takes more time to finish that 1%? I am being realistic here.
As for drama, you are right, people are trying to create drama here with giving false information about progress.

You do realize there's a massive difference between the precalculated nature of loading which happens in chunks often quickly loading frequently used assets first then storing in memory before passing the data for the executable and talking about "Bug fixes" right ?

Oh no, you probably didn't. You just wanted to pretend and that's fine. But we're talking about bug fixing here so try not to goalpost shift.

Literally everyone knows that while a bugfixing task list might say 75/99 now it can quite easily balloon to 76/300 because as i already stated fixing something more often than not leads to breaking a chain of something else that has to then itself be fixed and tested.

 

[RedGlow]

You do realize there's a massive difference between the precalculated nature of loading which happens in chunks often quickly loading frequently used assets first then storing in memory before passing the data for the executable and talking about "Bug fixes" right ?

Oh no, you probably didn't. You just wanted to pretend and that's fine. But we're talking about bug fixing here so try not to goalpost shift.

Literally everyone knows that while a bugfixing task list might say 75/99 now it can quite easily balloon to 76/300 because as i already stated fixing something more often than not leads to breaking a chain of something else that has to then itself be fixed and tested.

It can happen 76/100000. But this does not change that bugfix progress is just a task. It won't decrease whole progress bar to the 90% mathematically.
You should understand that progress bar shows the tasks not the time.
Keep attacking me man. Oh, BTW, why don't you share your brilliant idea with DC? Say that bug fixing takes a week so you should decrease bar to 90%?
I am not pretending. Passing the data to the executable is the last task of process that's why 99% - 100% takes a little longer. It is the same process. Bug fixing is the last task that takes more time.

 

[Zkorey]

Reality? OK.
Bugfix is a task along with others. Just because it takes longer than other tasks doesn't decrease the whole progress bar to 90%.
Do you know why sometimes loading goes to 99 fast but takes more time to finish that 1%? I am being realistic here.
As for drama, you are right, people are trying to create drama here with giving false information about progress.

I do not know about the others, but I did not provide any false information, just expressed what many think about this delay, you do not need to agree with us, for me there is no difference between the tracker of 99.34, for 90%, the bugs were Almost at the end, out of nowhere more 20 and I think that after it is close again will continue to appear more and more bugs, it was so in the last update if I remember, just not delayed more than this one to be released

 

[ZTex]

It can happen 76/100000. But this does not change that bugfix progress is just a task. It won't decrease whole progress bar to the 90% mathematically.
You should understand that progress bar shows the tasks not the time.
Keep attacking me man. Oh, BTW, why don't you share your brilliant idea with DC? Say that bug fixing takes a week so you should decrease bar to 90%?
I am not pretending. Passing the data to the executable is the last task of process that's why 99% - 100% takes a little longer. It is the same process. Bug fixing is the last task that takes more time.

Not only is your math bad, you're just wrong.
It is entirely possible for the total progress tracker which states it's at 99% to become less than that and even regress to 90% and that would be the introduction of roughly 140 bugs that need to be fixed.

 

[Zkorey]

You do realize there's a massive difference between the precalculated nature of loading which happens in chunks often quickly loading frequently used assets first then storing in memory before passing the data for the executable and talking about "Bug fixes" right ?

Oh no, you probably didn't. You just wanted to pretend and that's fine. But we're talking about bug fixing here so try not to goalpost shift.

Literally everyone knows that while a bugfixing task list might say 75/99 now it can quite easily balloon to 76/300 because as i already stated fixing something more often than not leads to breaking a chain of something else that has to then itself be fixed and tested.

yeah dude, 100% with you on this... totally agree.

 

[j4yj4m]

One should simply view the whole thing as two seperate trackers and it'll be fine. One that's for development and goes up to 99% once the testing starts (since 100% at that point will make people expect the release any minute, we've been there before) and the other one that's for the bugs and shows the progress in that department. Once all the bugs are done, we are at 100% and the release will happen within hours. In my opinion it's the most reasonable way which causes the least confusion for the average user. Including everything and having the percentage number shift back and forth between 90 and 99% for two weeks may technically be more precise but will only lead to complaints and tons of salt.

That said, no matter which way you choose, there'll always be ways to get it wrong. No tracker? People complain. Tracker without bugtesting? People complain. Tracker with testing? People complain. There's always someone.

 

[Oriandu]

Reality? OK.
Bugfix is a task along with others. Just because it takes longer than other tasks doesn't decrease the whole progress bar to 90%.
Do you know why sometimes loading goes to 99 fast but takes more time to finish that 1%? I am being realistic here.
As for drama, you are right, people are trying to create drama here with giving false information about progress.

Bug fixing is a lot like the game kerplunk. Pull the wrong stick and a fuck ton of marbles fall down and you lose. Losing in this scenario is a whooole bunch of new game breaking bugs popping up. QA testing can very, very easily go very, very wrong and could very well drop that completion bar down by a few percentage points due to the sheer volume of bugs that could pop up. Is it likely? No, as it's not like Summertime Saga is a complicated project that implements consistent and radical change between updates. But is it possible for the bug list to balloon out of control? You bet your ass it is. I've been involved in projects where the standard six weeks of QA testing grew into nearly four months.

 

[RedGlow]

Not only is your math bad, you're just wrong.
It is entirely possible for the total progress tracker which states it's at 99% to become less than that and even regress to 90% and that would be the introduction of roughly 140 bugs that need to be fixed.

Now my math? Yeah, keep attacking me. I will try to explain very basically. Try to think 100 tasks that each of them presents some work to be done. Now, let's say that 99 of these tasks are completed and there is one left but this little guy takes a bit more time than others. But percentage shows 99% :O what a shocking thing, right? But this last task takes more time it should be 90%, you say? The thing you skip is that progress bar does not care about length of tasks. It just cares about number.
BTW, if you hate it from progress bar then why don't you write a pm to dev?

 

[ZTex]

Now my math? Yeah, keep attacking me. I will try to explain very basically. Try to think 100 tasks that each of them presents some work to be done. Now, let's say that 99 of these tasks are completed and there is one left but this little guy takes a bit more time than others. But percentage shows 99% :O what a shocking thing, right? But this last task takes more time it should be 90%, you say? The thing you skip is that progress bar does not care about length of tasks. It just cares about number.
BTW, if you hate it from progress bar then why don't you write a pm to dev?

Bro...or Lady, frankly i don't care.
But if you don't understand how a task tracker works don't claim i'm attacking you.

On the last posted tracker there's 151 task and 21 remaining. That's technically not 99% but the dev chose to say it's virutally 99% and i wont fault them for it.
But for you to claim as you did in your post that

It can happen 76/100000. But this does not change that bugfix progress is just a task. It won't decrease whole progress bar to the 90% mathematically.

Is mathmatically wrong. If you actually added 100,000 task the overall percentage of the tracker would be less than 1%. Hence your math is WRONG. That's not personal that's math.

Also again stop trying to goalpost shift. I've never taken umbrage at the tracker or it's use.
I have however grown annoyed that people have boundless optimism that 99%=100% and keep acting as if they've already dropped the update when that's far from the case. Meanwhile when people use their brains and tell you all to chill you gotta get your panties in a wad.

 

[Zkorey]

Bro...or Lady, frankly i don't care.
But if you don't understand how a task tracker works don't claim i'm attacking you.

On the last posted tracker there's 151 task and 21 remaining. That's technically not 99% but the dev chose to say it's virutally 99% and i wont fault them for it.
But for you to claim as you did in your post that

Is mathmatically wrong. If you actually added 100,000 task the overall percentage of the tracker would be less than 1%. Hence your math is WRONG. That's not personal that's math.

Also again stop trying to goalpost shift. I've never taken umbrage at the tracker or it's use.
I have however grown annoyed that people have boundless optimism that 99%=100% and keep acting as if they've already dropped the update when that's far from the case. Meanwhile when people use their brains and tell you all to chill you gotta get your panties in a wad.

relax ... according to him we have to conclude that because the bar is at 99% is practically ready and will be released in 30 minutes ... obviously he doesn't know how a tasks tracker works
I don't even know why we're wasting time talking about it, too, it's not going to change anything, from progress bar still going to be at 99.34% by the end of the year, let's wait until these and pretend by the time the update is delivered, we're Just blind to see.

 

[RedGlow]

Bro...or Lady, frankly i don't care.
But if you don't understand how a task tracker works don't claim i'm attacking you.

On the last posted tracker there's 151 task and 21 remaining. That's technically not 99% but the dev chose to say it's virutally 99% and i wont fault them for it.
But for you to claim as you did in your post that

Is mathmatically wrong. If you actually added 100,000 task the overall percentage of the tracker would be less than 1%. Hence your math is WRONG. That's not personal that's math.

Also again stop trying to goalpost shift. I've never taken umbrage at the tracker or it's use.
I have however grown annoyed that people have boundless optimism that 99%=100% and keep acting as if they've already dropped the update when that's far from the case. Meanwhile when people use their brains and tell you all to chill you gotta get your panties in a wad.

Update can take months. I am not being optimistic, i am being realistic here. I am more calm than you are. You are doing nothing but to attack me personally. You are not mature enough to discuss. I made my point. But you are still imagining things. Where did i say 100k task? I said that bug fixing can be 76/100k. Bug fixing is one task. In order to complete that 'last(one) task', 76/100k should be completed. I hope you know that every task has works to be completed.
Oh man, this is getting interesting, pls do read and understand what i wrote first.

 

[ZTex]

Update can take months. I am not being optimistic, i am being realistic here. I am more calm than you are. You are doing nothing but to attack me personally. You are not mature enough to discuss. I made my point. But you are still imagining things. Where did i say 100k task? I said that bug fixing can be 76/100k. Bug fixing is one task. In order to complete that 'last(one) task', 76/100k should be completed. I hope you know that every task has works to be completed.
Oh man, this is getting interesting, pls do read and understand what i wrote first.

I did read and i quoted you, and quoted exactly where you said it could be 100k.
It's not personal it's math and you're not being realistic if you deny how math works.

Also, it's funny how you're the one to talk about others maturation. I never once attacked you, i attacked your premises and points. But you're trying to take it to a state of my character. Interesting attempt #3 to goalpost shift.

I'd like you to actually address the topic at hand some time.
Please explain to us how adding 100k to the tracker doesn't lower the total percentage. I'll wait.

 

[Fiddledeedee]

I think this would be the time that someone, aka me, will have to ask you to take your pissing match somewhere else, so us that are searching for actuall information about the game won´t have to rummage trough your, may i say rather pointless, bickering? Please just stick to PM´s instead of flooding the forum

 

[RedGlow]

I did read and i quoted you, and quoted exactly where you said it could be 100k.
It's not personal it's math and you're not being realistic if you deny how math works.

Also, it's funny how you're the one to talk about others maturation. I never once attacked you, i attacked your premises and points. But you're trying to take it to a state of my character. Interesting attempt #3 to goalpost shift.

I'd like you to actually address the topic at hand some time.
Please explain to us how adding 100k to the tracker doesn't lower the total percentage. I'll wait.

It increases the time but percentage stays same because that 100k bug belongs to 1 task. 1 out of 100 (i know there's more than 100 task. This number is example). This is the 3rd time i explained.

 

[bambam25]

Please explain to us how adding 100k to the tracker doesn't lower the total percentage. I'll wait.

His whole "76/100k " point is talking about bugs (76 bugs fixed/100k bugs total). He believes that bug fixing should be seen as one task. Since the amount of tasks hasn't changed, the percentage shouldn't change. That logic makes sense to me at least since the progress bar is a measure of the percentage of tasks completed instead of actual progress.

 

[Deleted member 435]

To everyone in this thread for the last few pages:

 

[ZTex]

His whole "76/100k " point is talking about bugs (76 bugs fixed/100k bugs total). He believes that bug fixing should be seen as one task. Since the amount of tasks hasn't changed, the percentage shouldn't change. That logic makes sense to me at least since the progress bar is a measure of the percentage of tasks completed instead of actual progress.

That logic is also wrong.
If we were to use that logic then it is 1 of 5 task. Now i hope i don't have to explain how 1 of 5 being incomplete isn't 99%.

The progress tracker is based on the total number of task. Not each subsection of the tracker and not weighting each subsection with an arbitrary value. It's simple math.

 

[RedGlow]

ZTex , the actual progress bar is in the DC's page. If you know things better, go pm him and explain your opinions. I made my point and i am done with you. Enjoy the forum.