VN Ren'Py Supermodel: Defenders of Desire [v1.0.0] [Belle]

[sigvar]

The game's structure was specifically designed with this in mind. I write the chapters so that they should take no more than about 10 minutes to play through for the longer ones, 15 minutes tops if you're a slow reader. Say what you want, you're going to play the game for at least 10 minutes before you have to shut it down. If something IRL pops up that forces you to shut down the game ahead of time, then hey, no biggie! Just start the same chapter the next time you have the time and hold down Ctrl (or press the Skip button on Android). You'll be back where you left off in seconds.

Okay, you don't get saves. I argue that you don't need them for this game under any circumstance. But if you still disagree on principle for some bizarre reason, allow me to offer you this little tidbit to make the pill easier to swallow: Due to the way this game is structured, I guarantee, as long as you still have your Persistent file, that you will be able to pick up and continue your old game regardless of what you did before you quit the last time and regardless of how many versions have passed since then (until the final version, anyway). That's more than any Ren'py dev who uses saves can offer. Despite my technical skills and being careful with how I wrote Long Live the Princess, people's saves still broke from time to time through no fault of my own. That will never happen in Supermodel.

Besides the version compatibility issue, there is also the problem of making saves work in a game that has a collectible card game aspect and the card game itself. Saves are simply incompatible with that game genre and cannot be used at all. At best, I might be able to offer multiple profiles, but never saves. This is not only because of the nature of the genre itself but also because, to make this game, I had to implement an enormous amount of highly complex Python code, more than you've likely ever encountered in a Ren'py game on this site (though I'd be very interested in hearing about games that might go further than this one. That stuff fascinates me). Python variables and (in particular) objects can play havoc on Ren'py saves. By using the persistent chapter save structure I implemented for this game, I also guarantee that the Python code will play nice with Ren'py.

Heck, I'll do you a better. If you're a backer of mine and I somehow break your Persistent save by accident through my fault, I'll refund you, sigvar.

This game couldn't have been made in this style without the current persistent structure. You may complain about that as much as you like; it changes nothing. I don't make design choices like that without a damn good reason.

And my reasons are damn good.

I am a quick reader so having content that is engaging enough to get involved with usually doesn't equate to 10 - 15 minute chunks for me. That being said, I don't save every 10 minutes either, so it will be interesting to see how your system works then. Thanks for the reply.

 

[0000000nowhere]

So I just played the game, read this whole thread, and am still left with a couple of questions:

1. Will there be any real incentives to play on higher difficulties at some point, or is it just about bragging rights? Because as it stands, you can unlock everything using the Beginner Deck on Warmup, whereas I kinda expected that difficulty to only be available for the first couple of matches.

2. Are the multiple phases really necessary? It feels like you could easily merge them without dumbing down the gameplay, but I'm also aware that some mechanics haven't been implemented yet.

I was also going to talk about rollback, but it's already been explained why it was disabled in the first place and that the History feature would be re-enabled, so I'm only mentioning it for anyone who might have missed that.

Overall, this game definitely has potential, I just hope Belle doesn't get discouraged by people criticizing a game they haven't even downloaded or that they failed to understand because they couldn't be bothered to read its instructions properly (although the interactive tutorial will probably help).

 

[Belle]

1. Will there be any real incentives to play on higher difficulties at some point, or is it just about bragging rights? Because as it stands, you can unlock everything using the Beginner Deck on Warmup, whereas I kinda expected that difficulty to only be available for the first couple of matches.

I don't have plans for any story-based incentives. The current reward system for matches (including the booster pack purchase screen) is something I had to temporarily implement because of the crowdfunding and early access nature of the game, but I have plans for it to look quite different by the time we reach the end. In particular, I want each difficulty to offer awards once. After that one-time reward, you either have to seek out new scenarios to play or push yourself up to higher difficulties where you still haven't unlocked the rewards. Obviously, there aren't anywhere near enough matches to support something like this at the moment.

The current system rewards grinding, which isn't something I like to encourage. When this game is done, grinding should not be something you ever need to do.

2. Are the multiple phases really necessary? It feels like you could easily merge them without dumbing down the gameplay, but I'm also aware that some mechanics haven't been implemented yet.

The multiple phases are there to create a strong separation between Engines and Instants (particularly by delaying rewards from Engines), but they are also meant to support creative card designs later down the line. To name two concepts enabled by the two-phase system, imagine cards that can be played directly on challenge cards in the action phase, or cards that have different effects depending on which phase you play them in. I like options, and the current structure was part of my design from the beginning. You start each turn by defending against challenge cards and end it by building up your engines.

 

[thanks for the demos]

So I just played the game, read this whole thread, and am still left with a couple of questions:

1. Will there be any real incentives to play on higher difficulties at some point, or is it just about bragging rights? Because as it stands, you can unlock everything using the Beginner Deck on Warmup, whereas I kinda expected that difficulty to only be available for the first couple of matches.

2. Are the multiple phases really necessary? It feels like you could easily merge them without dumbing down the gameplay, but I'm also aware that some mechanics haven't been implemented yet.

to 1) Yeah, the tutorial exaggerates how you should play on the easiest difficulty. But remember the tutorial had to make sense for people whose first language isn't english and who have never played a deck-builder in their life. If you have played a deckbuilder before, you shoul be perfectly fine on easy (="Serious") with the starter deck.

You won't miss anything storywise but you will miss content if you play on Warm-Up. Packs drop up to (rarity +1), so you'll only get commons and uncommons.

To get a chance to see everything in terms of content you'll have to play at least on normal (="Challenging") which drops a rare pack.

to 2) a good chunk of the overall difficulty stems from the phase order (Challenge first, then Actions). As Belle has indicated, many of the best cards currently in the game (like Encouragement, Backup Plan, Burst of Inspiration / No Questions Asked) allow you to circumvent that and give you some way to draw in the challenge phase.



Belle Finished the initial release and enjoyed it. Also kudos for making a deckbuilder in which card draw is not the be-all and end-all. Looking forward to what else is planned.

A few minor points:
Bug: -Handsize does not affect your first draw, but DOES affect your Mulligan.

2 rare packs have a good chance to be worth more than 1 epic pack in terms of Booster points. With only 4 epic cards in the current version there is little to incentivize you to play on Insane, other than the challenge itself.

Clarification: the CC Mishap says it discards a random engine/upgrade from play. However it always discards the lowest tier engine/upgrade and is only random when tied. This is good, but should be mentioned.

 

[Belle]

Bug: -Handsize does not affect your first draw, but DOES affect your Mulligan.

Do you mean if you draw a challenge card with Hand Size -1?

2 rare packs have a good chance to be worth more than 1 epic pack in terms of Booster points. With only 4 epic cards in the current version there is little to incentivize you to play on Insane, other than the challenge itself.

These things are hardly balanced right now, and as mentioned above, this system is temporary anyway. I expect to tune down the chance to draw higher rarity cards as more stages get added in the time to come, and eventually this whole booster system will get scrapped/revised completely.

Clarification: the CC Mishap says it discards a random engine/upgrade from play. However it always discards the lowest tier engine/upgrade and is only random when tied. This is good, but should be mentioned.

It will always discard Engines if it can. This is by design. Imagine if you had, say, a level 3 Upgrade and a level 1 Engine on the table and you suffered from the effect of this challenge card. A dice roll would basically decide the outcome of the game at that point. The card goes for your least valuable cards (in theory. Engines might sometimes be super-powerful and not designed to be upgraded, but that's a risk you choose to take as a player) so that it doesn't become a randomized kingmaker.

I'm pretty sure it tells you this if you double-click it.

 

[professorx10]

MINIReview: I'll make this as short as I can as everybody has an opinion on this amazing project with its unusual approach.

Bottom line, I don't think this game is for me...at this point. (always open to new evidence) Why.

First I was incredibly impressed with the starting introduction story with its music, sound effects, mystery and build up action. WOW, I thought. Man, This is gonna be GOOD! I accepted the automatic save and no rollback choice if I clicked too fast as I felt the menu system well thought out and guiding me in developing the story. I read through all the possibilities with interest and anticipation. Belle is obviously a pro and has exceeded his earlier game in quality and planning. My sincerest admiration and respect, sir, and incredible start for a Ren'py game!

Then I got to the card game point and thought, well I should read the instructions to get started. Here it totally lost me. This sure ain't no poker game. With multiple tiers, two points systems (stars and heat?) and unclear objectives of what you're doing /rewards for 'winning' a hand and not being able to retrace my last check without starting the instructions over again I have no idea what ...or WHY I would want to play this card game. No I did not try playing, I still don't understand the rules.

Then I realized this whole set up story was just to get a guy trapped and being a photographer for only these super-girls and then you have to play a card game to see if...how...where...or maybe...you get to have a relationship with each one? And that's it?! Wait. He can't go anywhere, do anything but focus on taking pictures and 'getting the super girls'? I really felt let down. Although I expect the Super girls will have some adventures I see no reason why the MC will get much story 'action' with this setup. Perhaps Belle has some other well thought out plans for later?

However, right now it feels like a "learn how to date and seduce women" tutorial introduced like a VN but really just covering for a gambling type card game including a points buying system (for $$?) where the MC is just a bystander....card player.
With great reluctance, I'll put this one aside. I have no interest in that kind of game.

 

[Belle]

MINIReview: I'll make this as short as I can as everybody has an opinion on this amazing project with its unusual approach.

Bottom line, I don't think this game is for me...at this point. (always open to new evidence) Why.

First I was incredibly impressed with the starting introduction story with its music, sound effects, mystery and build up action. WOW, I thought. Man, This is gonna be GOOD! I accepted the automatic save and no rollback choice if I clicked too fast as I felt the menu system well thought out and guiding me in developing the story. I read through all the possibilities with interest and anticipation. Belle is obviously a pro and has exceeded his earlier game in quality and planning. My sincerest admiration and respect, sir, and incredible start for a Ren'py game!

Then I got to the card game point and thought, well I should read the instructions to get started. Here it totally lost me. This sure ain't no poker game. With multiple tiers, two points systems (stars and heat?) and unclear objectives of what you're doing /rewards for 'winning' a hand and not being able to retrace my last check without starting the instructions over again I have no idea what ...or WHY I would want to play this card game. No I did not try playing, I still don't understand the rules.

Then I realized this whole set up story was just to get a guy trapped and being a photographer for only these super-girls and then you have to play a card game to see if...how...where...or maybe...you get to have a relationship with each one? And that's it?! Wait. He can't go anywhere, do anything but focus on taking pictures and 'getting the super girls'? I really felt let down. Although I expect the Super girls will have some adventures I see no reason why the MC will get much story 'action' with this setup. Perhaps Belle has some other well thought out plans for later?

However, right now it feels like a "learn how to date and seduce women" tutorial introduced like a VN but really just covering for a gambling type card game including a points buying system (for $$?) where the MC is just a bystander....card player.
With great reluctance, I'll put this one aside. I have no interest in that kind of game.

Let me just make it short: you're wrong about where the story is heading and what the setup is trying to do. Yes, there's *part* of that that's true, but there's much more going on here. It's probably also helpful if you don't think of Michael Sharpe as "the MC." Both him and Anna Morgenstern are MCs here. You will definitely not be confined to STALWART for this story.

As for the card game, I know it won't be for everyone. That's why there's a toggle in the preferences called "Pure VN Mode." Just activate that, and you won't have to see the card game again and can focus on the story.

Also, this game will never have microtransactions. I'm almost insulted that you would think so low of me. If I was doing all of this for money, making a game as niche as Supermodel would be near the bottom of my list of options.

Edit: Re-reading my reply, I sound a bit curt and annoyed. That wasn't my intention. Your feedback is welcome.

 

[Gato21]

Hi Belle! First, let me just say I really enjoyed your previous game and I am having a lot of fun with the card game. One quick question, and sorry if it's mentioned somewhere, but I seem to lose total heat at the first couple of turns. I didn't see any cards with heat loss mechanics in play. Also, I when I discard I received two total heat and not two usable heat as per the tutorial. Am I missing something and this working as intended? Also, I think people complaining about grind are silly; I think the card game is a nice balance to the story part of the game.

 

[Belle]

Hi Belle! First, let me just say I really enjoyed your previous game and I am having a lot of fun with the card game. One quick question, and sorry if it's mentioned somewhere, but I seem to lose total heat at the first couple of turns. I didn't see any cards with heat loss mechanics in play. Also, I when I discard I received two total heat and not two usable heat as per the tutorial. Am I missing something and this working as intended? Also, I think people complaining about grind are silly; I think the card game is a nice balance to the story part of the game.

It seems you're confused by the way Usable Heat vs Heat is presented. I've received enough feedback on this to realize that I need to change something here.

What's happening is that Usable Heat can actually go above your Heat... temporarily. What you think is Heat in your example is actually Usable Heat. Once the turn ends, you lose any Usable Heat in excess of your Heat. So you're not losing any Heat; you're losing Usable Heat.

The graphics need to look different depending on which of these two values is higher, so I will look into this for future updates.

 

[thanks for the demos]

Do you mean if you draw a challenge card with Hand Size -1?

Yeah, when the first CC is Unhelpful Advice it consistently affects your Mulligan, redrawing only to 4. If you don't Mulligan any cards you'd ignore the effect and have 5 cards on turn 1.

It will always discard Engines if it can. This is by design. Imagine if you had, say, a level 3 Upgrade and a level 1 Engine on the table and you suffered from the effect of this challenge card. A dice roll would basically decide the outcome of the game at that point. The card goes for your least valuable cards (in theory. Engines might sometimes be super-powerful and not designed to be upgraded, but that's a risk you choose to take as a player) so that it doesn't become a randomized kingmaker.

I'm pretty sure it tells you this if you double-click it.

Hadn't actually double-clicked to make sure, just noticed how it works and wanted to point out that the effect listed on the card is slightly misleading. If it's already clarified on double click, feel free to ignore that point.

Hi Belle! First, let me just say I really enjoyed your previous game and I am having a lot of fun with the card game. One quick question, and sorry if it's mentioned somewhere, but I seem to lose total heat at the first couple of turns. I didn't see any cards with heat loss mechanics in play. Also, I when I discard I received two total heat and not two usable heat as per the tutorial. Am I missing something and this working as intended? Also, I think people complaining about grind are silly; I think the card game is a nice balance to the story part of the game.

My guess is you temporarily had more usable heat than your current max heat (by manually discarding cards or playing Ready When You Are, which gives 1 Heat and 3 (temporary) usable Heat), which is lost after you end your turn.

Order is: first you lose excess heat, then you gain (max) Heat and usable Heat from engines/upgrades start of turn effect. So it could look like your Heat value drops before you gain more.

Could also have been the CC Insecurity, which reduces your Heat (total and usable) by 3 if on turn 5+
or some 'damage vs all CC' effects that explicitly mention reducing Heat after dealing damage.

 

[tha]

hey! i've been looking forward to this game since it was announced. i really enjoyed your last game and been excited for this one since its announcement. card games are one of my favorite genres. i just finished the initial version and have a few thought.

firstly, the game makes a great first impression with great graphics, interesting story hooks, and top sound. it got its hooks in me pretty quick. i also really enjoyed seeing stuff from multiple perspectives, especially the little vanguard vignette.

second, the cardgame aspect is really fun. it seems relatively easy, but that makes sense at this point. very fun and, importantly, original take on the concept. i really enjoy the multiple ways to use each card.

some suggestions/questions:

1. any chance of the music being published elsewhere? maybe on youtube or bandcamp? it was nice and it's great to hear some original music in a game on here for once.

2. i would love to see maybe a checkmark or something similar on the character select screen for if you finished a character's currently available story. (or maybe some kinda mark for if new story is available for a character instead)

3. re:rollback. i get why you disabled it, but i would also request it be added. personally i'm a very fast reader which leads to me sometimes skipping lines by clicking too fast (which admittedly history would solve), but I also sometimes miss stuff happening in the graphical scene because of it. or sometimes it's just nice to scroll back to a previous line with the context of a later one. it is not a dealbreaker either way, but it's just a nice QoL feature.

4. i don't know if this is feasible, but i found myself missing the photoshoot renders in the background during the card game. maybe a button to hide all the cards to see whats going on back there? or some kind of gallery would work maybe.

5. do you have any idea how fast the update cycle for this game will be? i'm clamoring for more

thanks and goodluck on future development!

 

[professorx10]

Edit: Re-reading my reply, I sound a bit curt and annoyed. That wasn't my intention. Your feedback is welcome.

Belle Thank you for reading my impressions of your game. (yes, you did sound upset, so thanks for noticing, I sometimes piss people off unintentionally and don't realize I've done it. No problemo)

" you're wrong about where the story is heading and what the setup is trying to do" I'm so glad to hear this. However, it was my honest impression upon my first play through so I reported it that way. It is honestly what the story feels like to me at this point.

Your suggestion to not think of Michael as the only MC goes over my head as the way the story starts, he is most definitely foremost in my mind as the MC. While Anna is introduced as a powerful executive type character, the way she was turned on by her photo shoot left me with serious concerns about her character. I was under the impression she would be a supporting character at best. (it seems to me that there is something mysterious or seriously wrong/strange here in her)

However, knowing that Michael will not be confined to Stalwart as we proceed takes a serious concern of mine off the table...he sure seems to be at this point. So, maybe there is more to this story?

About the Micro-transactions suggestion I made, again it came from my read of the game instructions and I was confused about it as that is what it seemed to suggest, which is why I mentioned it. I'm glad that's cleared up, I intended no insult. It goes to show that sometimes the written word comes across differently than we expect.

I see I failed to mention that I sincerely appreciate the VN button as I didn't want to play the strange card game. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
I was surprised that I'd already unexpectedly finished the story after Anna's photo shoot. When the game is updated, I will be using it to check and see if there is any story development other than just the instructions Anna gave Michael. Y'see, knowing the success of his main purpose is mostly influenced/controlled by how well you play the card game took a lot out of it for me. I look for the MC's actions/decisions to be the main variable in that development, rather than my card skills...which are unrelated to the story. Does that make sense?

Ok so I'd just like to close by once again saying how much I admire your beautiful opening production and cinematic development of Ren'py in creating Supermodel. You've done a magnificent job, far above the typical game found on F95. I know you put a lot of sweat and time into it. And knowing how well you wrote & produced 'the Princess' I probably shouldn't worry that there is a lot of good things to come. Cheers.

 

[Belle]

Yeah, when the first CC is Unhelpful Advice it consistently affects your Mulligan, redrawing only to 4. If you don't Mulligan any cards you'd ignore the effect and have 5 cards on turn 1.

I don't think that's the intended behavior. I'll look into it.

1. any chance of the music being published elsewhere? maybe on youtube or bandcamp? it was nice and it's great to hear some original music in a game on here for once.

Since I'm the composer, I'm free to do whatever I want with the soundtrack, and one of things I want to do is to publish it separately. However, in the early goings, I want the soundtrack to be an exclusive perk to Patreon/SS supporters. I haven't released it for them yet either, but I don't think it will take long.

2. i would love to see maybe a checkmark or something similar on the character select screen for if you finished a character's currently available story. (or maybe some kinda mark for if new story is available for a character instead)

I have considered adding a "new" tag on the character select screen if a character has unplayed chapters, but I don't think the game is crowded enough yet to warrant it. It will likely appear at some point.

4. i don't know if this is feasible, but i found myself missing the photoshoot renders in the background during the card game. maybe a button to hide all the cards to see whats going on back there? or some kind of gallery would work maybe.

There will be a photo gallery available from the main menu at some point. Its purpose will be to let you browse the pictures you've taken during the card game.

5. do you have any idea how fast the update cycle for this game will be? i'm clamoring for more

It should be fast. I'm planning small and frequent updates. The next update will be focused on the card game and add Blink as a new model.

However, knowing that Michael will not be confined to Stalwart as we proceed takes a serious concern of mine off the table...he sure seems to be at this point. So, maybe there is more to this story?

I said "you" won't be confined to STALWART.

Your suggestion to not think of Michael as the only MC goes over my head as the way the story starts, he is most definitely foremost in my mind as the MC. While Anna is introduced as a powerful executive type character, the way she was turned on by her photo shoot left me with serious concerns about her character. I was under the impression she would be a supporting character at best. (it seems to me that there is something mysterious or seriously wrong/strange here in her)

I think you only have this impression because of the long-ingrained standard of male characters being main characters with female characters in supporting roles only. Anna is arguably a more important character than Michael in this story and will get a lot of focus. She's a POV character for good reason.

Michael's role in the story might look like a dating game setup right now, but it's set up like this for genuine story reasons that I can't tell you about because they would be massive spoilers. Just trust me in that I know what I'm doing. He might be confined to STALWART for some time, but his role there is vital.

Y'see, knowing the success of his main purpose is mostly influenced/controlled by how well you play the card game took a lot out of it for me.

There is no relation between your results in the card game and the story. The results are binary: either you win and get to progress the story, or you lose and have to retry the match.

 

[cumsumnida]

Not to get all hearthstone on the dev, but the coffee card needs to cost 2 or less heat or have some CC damage power. It’s hard to use in Turn 1 when you want to mulligan for the starting level 1 Trust, Skill and Confidence card. Most of the time, you have to discard cards to get enough heat to play it in Turn 1.

The coffee card gives you one extra card draw, but it takes up one engine slot and you can’t upgrade it for now. It doesn’t even do any damage to CC!

Getting the engines heat building or CC deleting skill is just way more useful and they can get upgraded and damage the CC.

I’ve played for hours and only beat insanity mode once and that coffee card just pisses me off.

 

[Harem4life]

We couldn't even get one page before the NTR talk, huh? No, there will be no NTR here, nor anything that would get me kicked off Patreon. You wouldn't want to go tag-chasing for this game anyway. It's not a stroker.

Well, can you blame us? Your previous game actually has NTR. It's only logical that people would want to make sure that they don't have any other dicks fucking MC's LIs.

 

[Belle]

Not to get all hearthstone on the dev, but the coffee card needs to cost 2 or less heat or have some CC damage power. It’s hard to use in Turn 1 when you want to mulligan for the starting level 1 Trust, Skill and Confidence card. Most of the time, you have to discard cards to get enough heat to play it in Turn 1.

The coffee card gives you one extra card draw, but it takes up one engine slot and you can’t upgrade it for now. It doesn’t even do any damage to CC!

Getting the engines heat building or CC deleting skill is just way more useful and they can get upgraded and damage the CC.

I’ve played for hours and only beat insanity mode once and that coffee card just pisses me off.

Hand Size +1 is an incredibly powerful ability that needs to be offset in various ways. Based on usage and how I've seen people talk about it, I feel like that card is in a good place for a common-rarity card. Playing it on turn one would give you nine extra cards throughout the game, which is a massive advantage. You'll find that extra card draws come with drawbacks and sacrifices in this game. I don't want the mechanic to be something that every deck will want to do. There are a few cards that I'm fine with being mainstays in any deck (Deep Breath and Ready When You Are, for example), but Coffee is not one of those cards.

 

[Belle]

I've just managed to get to the point where I can actually play the brand new scenario for Blink with her new cards and challenges, and it sure takes a different way of thinking from the two existing characters. I can't wait to show off this scenario and Blink's unique twist to the formula. She comes with a slight increase in difficulty and complexity, but that's fine since you have to start with Vanguard anyway.

 

[Gorse]

Made some Fan Sigs for "SUPERMODEL: DEFENDERS of DESIRE" (just to share these with all of you):

ANNA - Fan Signature
300 x 124 px / 1 MB /.gif



LINK: https://attachments.f95zone.to/2024/09/4096442_SDoDsiG1.gif
____________________________________________________________________________________________

PHOEBE - Fan Signature
300 x 124 px / 1 MB / .gif



LINK: https://attachments.f95zone.to/2024/09/4096443_SDoDsiG2.gif
____________________________________________________________________________________________

SERAPHIM - Fan Signature
300 x 124 px / 1 MB / .gif



LINK: https://attachments.f95zone.to/2024/09/4096444_SDoDsiG3.gif
____________________________________________________________________________________________

SYBIL - Fan Signature
300 x 124 px / 1 MB / .gif



LINK: https://attachments.f95zone.to/2024/09/4096445_SDoDsiG4.gif
____________________________________________________________________________________________

VANGUARD - Fan Signature
300 x 124 px / 1 MB / .gif



LINK: https://attachments.f95zone.to/2024/09/4096446_SDoDsiG5.gif
____________________________________________________________________________________________

More signatures are possible with more future updates.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________________________________________________

Spoiler: How to use a Fan Sig in your signature

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

____________________________________________________________________________________________
______________________________________________________________________________

Whether you defend your desire or not:
by using these Sigs your personal signature you might even support the game & the dev a wee bit !

********************************************************************​

And Belle: thanks for your game & good fortune with the future development! All the best & fingers crossed!

 

[SuddenReal]

I don't know if this is a bug or just bad wording, but Duct Tape says "Deal 2 damage to all CC for each Skill card in play", but if you have two Skill CC's and two Skill engines in play, it will only deal 4 damage instead of the expected 8. If engines aren't cards of that particular type, then why use terms like "xxx card" since other cards mentioning certain types of CC's specifically mention "xxx CC".

 

[Belle]

I don't know if this is a bug or just bad wording, but Duct Tape says "Deal 2 damage to all CC for each Skill card in play", but if you have two Skill CC's and two Skill engines in play, it will only deal 4 damage instead of the expected 8. If engines aren't cards of that particular type, then why use terms like "xxx card" since other cards mentioning certain types of CC's specifically mention "xxx CC".

It's a phrasing thing for simplicity's sake. If standard cards refer to challenge cards in their effects, they will always be specific about it. I also don't tend to use the phrase "in play" for challenge cards unless, again, I specifically mention those.

In cases where both standard cards and challenge cards count for an effect (which isn't the case in the current version and most likely never will be), I would spell that out clearly on both the small card and in the expanded effects.