Dexter1927

Member
Aug 7, 2019
155
238
I am straight and I do not mind that the game does not have so many sexual scenes for straight men.
honestly i just thing this game is made for people who likes chicks with dicks, , doesn't matter if straight by's or 3 headed chickens, the games says tales of androgyny and should talk about Androgyny, lets just all be friends in the name of Majalis duo, and remember, we got big tiddy goth giant gf before it was mainstream, AND with a twist, so see ya in peace *drops mic*
 

Twiton

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2019
1,769
2,307
honestly i just thing this game is made for people who likes chicks with dicks, , doesn't matter if straight by's or 3 headed chickens, the games says tales of androgyny and should talk about Androgyny, lets just all be friends in the name of Majalis duo, and remember, we got big tiddy goth giant gf before it was mainstream, AND with a twist, so see ya in peace *drops mic*
Big Dick Goth Giant Tiddy GF*
 

Majalis (ToA)

Member
Jul 31, 2019
228
859
My read of that response leans heavily toward half-hearted pseudoimplementation as the most likely form for it.

"We don't think it matters that much and if people want it that bad then whatever" sounds to me like they're not planning on heavily supporting it or going back to change any old scenes, that sticking a parser in and calling it a day is about all the thought they'd put into it, so it's truly a move that would please no one.
I didn't say that at all. I said these arguments (that assume/disregard LOE and also assume what our priorities are by misreading or hyperextrapolating from things we have said or just completely guessing) aren't good.

At some point, we'll be done with all of the high priority items for ToA, and any size feature request can be accommodated, because our budget and support timeline are not fixed. As long as people want those things, and we're willing to do them, they can be done. And we'll be making those decisions based on our own informed understanding of the LOE, not generic appeals to LOE that try to game theory their way to their preferred outcome (ie "don't add this feature I don't like because it's literally impossible to add it in a way that will 'please everyone'" or will "please no one", which assumes, of course, that we want to please absolutely everyone with every feature we implement).

As more misinterpretation fodder: the original vision for the game includes variable character attitude and self-identification. Things like feminization, increased promiscuity, becoming more confident sexually, etc. The reason that the Catamite perk exists, for instance, is so that a player can skip the part where their character is reluctant to venture outside their heroic duties. The reason variable pronoun ID didn't exist to begin with is because of a conflict between the self-feminization and forced-feminization fetishes, that is, whether pronouns would be based on player selection or chosen by a character's level of feminization. And it wasn't a big deal since, after all, mostly the player character is referred to in the second person, "you", which is gender neutral, with most mentions of gender not being pronoun based, but gender ID based (the narrative assumes that Hiro is male, which is also not something that was ever planned to be set in stone! See: feminization).

I delayed making that choice until it became clear that I wasn't going to add that kind of forced feminization generically to the game, instead confining it to certain characters (like Alma), which meant that pronoun selection could be made by the player generically instead (which could, potentially, be affected by the forced feminization content, which the player would be able to moderate their interaction with). So it became a feature that could be voted on and, if selected, prioritized. At this point, even if it's voted on, it's going into the backlog for post-release.

So let me be clear about that again: the decision to add it to the feature survey was not made based on a public appeals campaign. It was something people wanted, and based on the way development was unfolding, we decided it was a feasible addition to make. We're well aware of the phenomenon of people getting something they want, and then asking for more, and we're used to managing it.

tl;dr "But I don't WANT that feature added" and its derivatives are not ever going to be convincing if someone else (particularly the devs!) does want it. People can say what things they do want and we'll accept, reject, and prioritize them accordingly, based on LOE, game design, and target audience factors.
 

balitz Method

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
783
1,188
At some point, we'll be done with all of the high priority items for ToA, and any size feature request can be accommodated, because our budget and support timeline are not fixed. As long as people want those things, and we're willing to do them, they can be done. And we'll be making those decisions based on our own informed understanding of the LOE, not generic appeals to LOE that try to game theory their way to their preferred outcome (ie "don't add this feature I don't like because it's literally impossible to add it in a way that will 'please everyone'" or will "please no one", which assumes, of course, that we want to please absolutely everyone with every feature we implement).
I'm coming at it from the angle of "who -will- it please?".

Not being opposed to adding it, which sounds like your position, is much different from "we enthusiastically support and intend to implement it seamlessly". If it's just a parser implementation where it's hardly ever mentioned and none of the scenes are adjusted to account for it in any major way I can't see people who really wanted this being pleased with it. On the other hand diving deep into a near-completed game to add robust support for a completely different perspective in a majority of scenes would be a lot of work. The few people who really wanted this would be satisfied, but would all the support you have now continue if you're committed to working on something a fraction of paying players want?

I just don't see a way to do this and actually please anyone.
 
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balitz Method

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
783
1,188
If anything I see that as the sort of feature to take into your next game project. As a ground-up consideration it's not that big a deal; it's in trying to alter a game that's largely skewed in a particular direction that it becomes a choice between bad implementation or major undertaking that may not be supported.
 

Majalis (ToA)

Member
Jul 31, 2019
228
859
I'm coming at it from the angle of "who -will- it please?".

Not being opposed to adding it, which sounds like your position, is much different from "we enthusiastically support and intend to implement it seamlessly". If it's just a parser implementation where it's hardly ever mentioned and none of the scenes are adjusted to account for it in any major way I can't see people who really wanted this being pleased with it. On the other hand diving deep into a near-completed game to add robust support for a completely different perspective in a majority of scenes would be a lot of work. The few people who really wanted this would be satisfied, but would all the support you have now continue if you're now only working on something a minority of players want?

I just don't see a way to do this and actually please anyone.
You cannot infer from a mere lack of opposition how enthusiastically or seamlessly someone will perform a task. "I don't mind sweeping the floors; it's not a big deal" does not imply that the person volunteering to sweep the floors is going to do a half-assed job of it.

The majority of scenes don't really talk about Hiro's gender in a complex way. Dynamically swapping out pronouns, certain gendered terms like boy, bitchboy, man, etc. would handle most of them. The remaining would be similar to the chastity content - scenes which assume you have a usable penis need to either be omitted or altered, which is a matter of rooting out those scenes (possibly on a rolling basis, like we did with the chastity content) and flagging them, and then creating alternatives. Usually it's a single line or a few lines together that talk about Hiro being male; there are few if any extended sequences that involve someone talking about how much of a Masculine/Male Gendered Person Hiro is, and the scenes in which someone is referred to as a girl or feminine or female in a playful way can remain largely unchanged.

Since this has been on my radar for a long time, I've actually kept note of most of the scenes in which gender play comes up, so it's not even much of an easter egg hunt.

Again, I'm not convinced by the number of people (which is entirely unknown to people who aren't us, and semi-unknown to us**) who want the feature. A minority of people (at least on paper) are going to enjoy almost everything we add - any content for characters or fetishes that poll below 50%, basically anything that is just simple QoL changes, non-erotic content like backgrounds, ambient sounds, music, etc. The voting, for instance, is done by plurality, not majority, and the calculus isn't just "how many people are going to care about this" vs. "what is the LOE", it also involves how much the people who care about it are going to care, and that, again, includes us, and for stuff that isn't decided by survey (e.g. what goes on the survey to begin with*), we alone decide.

*sometimes we let people nominate what will go into the surveys, but we still ultimately make the decision which nominees to select
**remember, this is on our feature survey, so we do actually have some idea, aside from just general chatter in our discord and the like, how many people would like this, and if it wins the survey, it will likely be a not-insignificant number of people!
 
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Twiton

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2019
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Since this has been on my radar for a long time, I've actually kept note of most of the scenes in which gender play comes up, so it's not even much of an easter egg hunt.
Uh, speaking of Easter Egg hunts, would it be any bother to inquire about the Script Entry for the Horny/Toll Brigand Encounter having a Cant/No-Cant variation in the files? I was rather curious to know, assuming it wasn't already covered in the past, just how far back the Cant Mechanic was planned as a concept.

And, adding onto what you said about the Catamite Perk, is there going to be more instances in future encounters where Topping Outcomes can only be achieved with the Slut Condition? (Fire Elemental being the considered example)

With those questions aired and out of the way, hopefully the last I ever ask given how anxious it feels simply saying them, I'll just end my post by saying I'm massively glad to see you engaging more in the fan communities!
 
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KnowledgeAlfa

Member
Apr 5, 2018
378
469
I didn't say that at all. I said these arguments (that assume/disregard LOE and also assume what our priorities are by misreading or hyperextrapolating from things we have said or just completely guessing) aren't good.

At some point, we'll be done with all of the high priority items for ToA, and any size feature request can be accommodated, because our budget and support timeline are not fixed. As long as people want those things, and we're willing to do them, they can be done. And we'll be making those decisions based on our own informed understanding of the LOE, not generic appeals to LOE that try to game theory their way to their preferred outcome (ie "don't add this feature I don't like because it's literally impossible to add it in a way that will 'please everyone'" or will "please no one", which assumes, of course, that we want to please absolutely everyone with every feature we implement).

As more misinterpretation fodder: the original vision for the game includes variable character attitude and self-identification. Things like feminization, increased promiscuity, becoming more confident sexually, etc. The reason that the Catamite perk exists, for instance, is so that a player can skip the part where their character is reluctant to venture outside their heroic duties. The reason variable pronoun ID didn't exist to begin with is because of a conflict between the self-feminization and forced-feminization fetishes, that is, whether pronouns would be based on player selection or chosen by a character's level of feminization. And it wasn't a big deal since, after all, mostly the player character is referred to in the second person, "you", which is gender neutral, with most mentions of gender not being pronoun based, but gender ID based (the narrative assumes that Hiro is male, which is also not something that was ever planned to be set in stone! See: feminization).

I delayed making that choice until it became clear that I wasn't going to add that kind of forced feminization generically to the game, instead confining it to certain characters (like Alma), which meant that pronoun selection could be made by the player generically instead (which could, potentially, be affected by the forced feminization content, which the player would be able to moderate their interaction with). So it became a feature that could be voted on and, if selected, prioritized. At this point, even if it's voted on, it's going into the backlog for post-release.

So let me be clear about that again: the decision to add it to the feature survey was not made based on a public appeals campaign. It was something people wanted, and based on the way development was unfolding, we decided it was a feasible addition to make. We're well aware of the phenomenon of people getting something they want, and then asking for more, and we're used to managing it.

tl;dr "But I don't WANT that feature added" and its derivatives are not ever going to be convincing if someone else (particularly the devs!) does want it. People can say what things they do want and we'll accept, reject, and prioritize them accordingly, based on LOE, game design, and target audience factors.
This post just made me realize *why* Alma is the MVP.
 

UndeadEve

Active Member
Aug 22, 2017
972
1,008
So let me be clear about that again: the decision to add it to the feature survey was not made based on a public appeals campaign. It was something people wanted, and based on the way development was unfolding, we decided it was a feasible addition to make. We're well aware of the phenomenon of people getting something they want, and then asking for more, and we're used to managing it.

tl;dr "But I don't WANT that feature added" and its derivatives are not ever going to be convincing if someone else (particularly the devs!) does want it. People can say what things they do want and we'll accept, reject, and prioritize them accordingly, based on LOE, game design, and target audience factors.
I feel like i should say something.

What i said about the pronouns (without knowing how you will implement it) was and still is my opinion, with the little knowledge i had at the time (meaning your posts here and what i can see from the game itself) I could only see that it was unlike what you made previously and it stood out.

But what i also said, was that as long as it came from you and only from you, i was okay with it.
Because from what i gathered at the time, it felt like you were bending the knee and forfeiting your vision from the game.
And i stand corrected, you're more on the right track of your vision it seems.

It may or may not change my opinion on it (even though i like how you want to implement it, i find it good actually and more "accurate" to the world) but it was just that, my opinion and it shouldn't make you change anything.

tl;dr keep following your vision and make what you want to make, the opinions of other people (mine included) should not matter.
 

Twiton

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2019
1,769
2,307
This week's has come to a close!
Here's the results:
1622502230063.png
1622502311233.png
Thanks to everyone who voted and a big thanks to all of the 2k Members, that are now a part of the ToA Community!
1622502386210.png

 

Khuntai

Newbie
Jun 5, 2018
67
334
You cannot infer from a mere lack of opposition how enthusiastically or seamlessly someone will perform a task. "I don't mind sweeping the floors; it's not a big deal" does not imply that the person volunteering to sweep the floors is going to do a half-assed job of it.

The majority of scenes don't really talk about Hiro's gender in a complex way. Dynamically swapping out pronouns, certain gendered terms like boy, bitchboy, man, etc. would handle most of them. The remaining would be similar to the chastity content - scenes which assume you have a usable penis need to either be omitted or altered, which is a matter of rooting out those scenes (possibly on a rolling basis, like we did with the chastity content) and flagging them, and then creating alternatives. Usually it's a single line or a few lines together that talk about Hiro being male; there are few if any extended sequences that involve someone talking about how much of a Masculine/Male Gendered Person Hiro is, and the scenes in which someone is referred to as a girl or feminine or female in a playful way can remain largely unchanged.

Since this has been on my radar for a long time, I've actually kept note of most of the scenes in which gender play comes up, so it's not even much of an easter egg hunt.

Again, I'm not convinced by the number of people (which is entirely unknown to people who aren't us, and semi-unknown to us**) who want the feature. A minority of people (at least on paper) are going to enjoy almost everything we add - any content for characters or fetishes that poll below 50%, basically anything that is just simple QoL changes, non-erotic content like backgrounds, ambient sounds, music, etc. The voting, for instance, is done by plurality, not majority, and the calculus isn't just "how many people are going to care about this" vs. "what is the LOE", it also involves how much the people who care about it are going to care, and that, again, includes us, and for stuff that isn't decided by survey (e.g. what goes on the survey to begin with*), we alone decide.

*sometimes we let people nominate what will go into the surveys, but we still ultimately make the decision which nominees to select
**remember, this is on our feature survey, so we do actually have some idea, aside from just general chatter in our discord and the like, how many people would like this, and if it wins the survey, it will likely be a not-insignificant number of people!
Maybe I'm misreading but female Hiro wouldn't have a penis? Isn't that a lot of art to make/edit? Not to mention that I doubt you'd make 'Hira' a female and continue to only write anal scenes, so you'd also have to go back and add some vaginal. Then there's the ass pregnancy scenes as well, wouldn't some of those change for obvious reasons? And what about topping scenes? Male Hiro players would have an option to dom that female players wouldn't have, seems unfair. So you'd have to write some powerbottoming vagina based scenes I guess? And I'm sure there's other shit I can't remember. I don't even have a horse in this race really, it just sounds to me like you're underestimating the potential workload. I don't know if you've ever played corruption of champions or it's sequel, but from what I've been told going back and adding all these variables to scenes are a pain.
 
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Majalis (ToA)

Member
Jul 31, 2019
228
859
Maybe I'm misreading but female Hiro wouldn't have a penis? Isn't that a lot of art to make/edit? Not to mention that I doubt you'd make 'Hira' a female and continue to only write anal scenes, so you'd also have to go back and add some vaginal. Then there's the ass pregnancy scenes as well, wouldn't some of those change for obvious reasons? And what about topping scenes? Male Hiro players would have an option to dom that female players wouldn't have, seems unfair. So you'd have to write some powerbottoming vagina based scenes I guess? And I'm sure there's other shit I can't remember. I don't even have a horse in this race really, it just sounds to me like you're underestimating the potential workload. I don't know if you've ever played corruption of champions or it's sequel, but from what I've been told going back and adding all these variables to scenes are a pay.
We're not talking about Hiro's genitals, just pronouns and/or related gender identifiers. Topping scenes are already impossible if you're impotent or caged or otherwise have an unusable cock (e.g. cursed underwear). We don't plan to give Hiro a vagina.
 

Twiton

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2019
1,769
2,307
How dose one get the slut perk or skill
There's a few ways to pass the Slut Condition in Encounters/Scenes:
- Catamite Perk, unlocked with a Perk Point in the upgrade menu accessed on the world map
- Rank Zero Dignity, achieved by losing dignity until you have none left (will massively drain your Purity)
- Drunk status or High Lust percentage, (reach high arousal and don't climax or carry around Wine. WARNING, DRUNK STATUS REDUCES YOUR CHR AND CUMDRUNK/HIGH ARROUSAL REDUCES YOUR STR AND CAN CAUSE QUICKSHOTS/PURITY LOSS OUTCOMES.)
 

Nlren

Newbie
Sep 21, 2019
41
90
If someone wants to use pronounce of choice in-game, they can extract TalesOfAndrogyny.jar, go to the extracted folder, open script folder and then open encounters.json and change the pronounces themselves. After changing they need to repack extracted folder and replace TalesOfAndrogyny.jar.
 
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Twiton

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2019
1,769
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If someone wants to use pronounce of choice in-game, they can extract TalesOfAndrogyny.jar, go to the extracted folder, open script folder and then open encounters.json and change the pronounces themselves. After changing they need to repack extracted folder and replace TalesOfAndrogyny.jar.
The player then also needs to adjust the narrative writing, character dialogue, companion chatter also potentially, the in-game combat chatter, the mini-encounters too and also ensure they've not removed or altered dialogue that causes a text overflow. Maybe also proofread a few times, if they've got secondary perspectives from writing that they want to edit in after looking at the drafted changes again.

I could try and do that, believe me I've even discussed it on the Fan Server when talking about the feature, yet it's likely going to become a matter of replicating the writing style in several instances.

Having spent the good part of 3 Months recreating the writing of ToA, for Warmth, as well as recently doing extensive pouring through the JAR Script file, I can tell you it's a big undertaking for just someone who wants to do it instead of having the variants be implemented by Majalis . There's a LOT to go through, which will take even longer for someone not with a direct way of potentially asking for clarification about certain segments or word usage.

I joked earlier yesterday about how you'd answer some questions or clarify your gender in regards to some situations, that was me broaching the idea that there's going to be an interesting perspective for how Enemies/Characters treat you if you embrace a female identity. TBH, I'm actually even more interested in seeing it implemented, now that Majalis have clarified it a bit more I'm wishing I could vote on the option in the Polls like I used to.
 
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balitz Method

Active Member
Jan 30, 2018
783
1,188
You cannot infer from a mere lack of opposition how enthusiastically or seamlessly someone will perform a task. "I don't mind sweeping the floors; it's not a big deal" does not imply that the person volunteering to sweep the floors is going to do a half-assed job of it.

The majority of scenes don't really talk about Hiro's gender in a complex way. Dynamically swapping out pronouns, certain gendered terms like boy, bitchboy, man, etc. would handle most of them. The remaining would be similar to the chastity content - scenes which assume you have a usable penis need to either be omitted or altered, which is a matter of rooting out those scenes (possibly on a rolling basis, like we did with the chastity content) and flagging them, and then creating alternatives. Usually it's a single line or a few lines together that talk about Hiro being male; there are few if any extended sequences that involve someone talking about how much of a Masculine/Male Gendered Person Hiro is, and the scenes in which someone is referred to as a girl or feminine or female in a playful way can remain largely unchanged.
They kinda do, though. Maybe not through direct reference, but the emasculation/role reversal of getting butt-pounded is a very bread and butter theme for your scenes in this game and those don't make much sense from a feminine perspective. That's so pervasive that most every scene in the game either uses it directly or alludes to it, so making a roll-up-your-sleeves implementation of it would require a -lot- of work once you sit down and look for things like that.

Most of the variants you've got so far are either an extension of that appealing to a more extreme niche or something that meshes with it. This is something that goes against the grain of a good portion of your content as it exists, especially the older stuff, and this is why it comes down to it either becoming a major undertaking or a very very minor cosmetic change. If you're just looking at direct references then it falls into that latter category.
 
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