That's It! No More Incest!

[JollyGeorgieM]

Ok, I was kinda click-baiting here; I like incest as a plot point for the MC. My main issue, and the thing I wanted some feedback on, is when allowing incest means the MC's friends start getting into the family business. Incest that you are a willing participant in is titillating because it is "wrong": the scandal adds spice (imo). But that gets ruined when a) people find out and are totally cool with it (making it no longer exciting because there is no more taboo); b) every third person you meet just so happens to also be committing incest (making it unoriginal); and/or c) your "friend" has been thirsty for the wincest but you've been chasing their mom/sister/cousin yourself (making them both a rival and a sick bastard - how did we even become friends? This town ain't big enough for two sick bastards, dammit!). C) is extra bad if they actually succeed, because it taints whomever they manage to pull as well.

In regards to that last one, c), I find this especially offensive. I don't want to engage in an NTR debate, it's generally pointless as far as I've seen. But if I've made overtures to a character and then, because they got horny for me they decide "What the hell, I like my son/sibling's best friend, that's basically the same as liking my son/sibling, let's bang them too!" - I find it disgusting. It is not sexy to watch incest I had no part in, and it makes whomever I was pursuing in the relationship seem icky to me. There is no "friend" I am willing to help commit incest and it disinclines me from romancing the girl if she is shown to even consider it (though admittedly I may still go for her... uh, for her sake, to save her. Yeah, that's why. It's for her ).

I have plenty of examples of incest games (and I'm sure you all can think of even more) where you meet someone and what do you know? They also diddled daddy! They also enjoy banging their brother! Or on the flip side, they've been pining after their mother too (and generally yours as well, the assholes)! And what wouldn't they give for a side of sister with their main course? Please, stop this. It fundamentally undermines the appeal of incest (at least as I understand it). If you banging your relatives is ordinary, or even just treated as ordinary, then THE SEX IS ORDINARY. It's not special anymore. It's not a taboo relationship. Kink destroyed. Game over.

What do you guys think? This is why I loathe characters like Bacon in Timestamps and James in Sisterly Lust - I'm supposed to like them, maybe even help them, but they undermine a key kink of the entire game (big thanks to Sisterly Lust for letting me tell James he's foul and to knock it off - yeah I'm a hypocrite, sue me)! It's why I started checking out of Dating My Daughter - Graham and his girl were important plot-wise (even if I only managed to tolerate them), but once some random lawyer in Donutstan (or wherever they are in Chapter 2) randomly fucks his niece too just because Wincest Hooray, it cheapened the fundamental premise of the game. Why was this relationship even a big deal in the first place if everyone else is doing it? Lastly, in the game that prodded me to make this rant (Family Matters), there's a girl who's having lesbian sex and just casually tosses in that she lost her virginity to her father - and THAT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING. She brings this up in TWO SEPARATE SEXUAL ENCOUNTERS and neither time does it even slow the situations down. Nobody bats an eye. Come on! I get suspension of disbelief, and PLOT over plot, but incest is wincest because it's a rare, scary, difficult-to-manage secret special relationship NO-ONE BUT YOU AND THE RELATIVE WOULD UNDERSTAND. And to make a harem out of it takes even more skill and has even more exciting risks involved. Right? Is that not what makes it hot?

tl;dr: I would like the incest in incest games to be unique to relationships the MC forms, not widespread or widely accepted. If it is not, it cheapens the appeal imo. Thoughts?

 

[Agent HK47]

I agree with your point somewhat, although I don't 100% agree everything you brought up.

I agree that we need to keep the idea of incest as forbidden and not normalize it in the games. We, as the protagonist, must be the abnormality in the most cases. I never bought the setup from Sisterly lust, as the sister never seemed like she was ever into her brother at all, and I really didn't like James to begin with, so screw him.
If someone mentions they committed incest, there needs to be an impact of some sort, I 100% agree. However, I don't agree that nobody else in the game should ever commit incest. It can happen, it just needs build-up and for the characters to show me that they know and respect the taboo factor of what they are doing. And of course it must remain a rare occurance in the game, so you can't have every third couple you meet be having incest.

Graham from DmD is a good example of an incest relationship which works for me. On the surface they are simply a very close father & Daughter, which they exploit to hide their true relationship. They don't just blabber it out any random person, and they only entrust this knowledge to the MC, because they have a strong suspicion that he is also doing the same. They clearly respect the impact which this information could have, which is why I am okay with it. (or maybe it's just because Graham is the first non-asshole to be using that daz-model)

As for the lawyer.... that shit was terrible. Graham and his daughter well executed, while this was just slapped onto the story because... the dev could, I guess. It felt forced and silly.

 

[Grape Juice]

I don't like incest. not because it's wrong or whatever. Don't get me wrong, irl i think incest is pretty fucked up and also not really appealing. But in a fictional setting i really don't give a shit. They aren't real people so the "taboo" isn't real either. I'm not the kind of person who needs any specific kink or fetish or whatever at all to get off. I just want well told characters and story (yes, even in porn games, don't @ me, i have standards)

And here is where my problem comes in: Incest in one of the cheapest storytelling tools in porn. It's an easy source for conflict and drama. It is pretty much the biggest taboo in any kind of sexual storytelling without going into illegal territory (i.e loli/shota, rape/blackmail, etc.). AND here is probably the biggest point for why incest is used: It's the easiest way of giving your MC a lot of potential love/sex interests without having to be good at writing a story or a scenario where people might want to have sex with each other.
Meeting people at a bar or whatever and getting to know each other? Not a problem, you know your siblings/parents since the day where you were born, so there is no need to establish a relationship beforehand.
Writing a cohesive world that feels real and lived in? No problem, your game can take place in only one location: Your house. Even better: why not have a natural or even unnatural catastrophe block all exits from said house so you have enough time to bang all your family members (your father is conveniently not with you).
And i could go on and on about the stupid tropes of this sub-genre, but that is more about how most game-devs are 17 y/o NEETs who never even talked to a girl and are generally just terrible writers.

And all this leads to another big problem i have with the genre: It's oversaturation. Go on any live-action-porn site, read any doujin, play any porn game. All incest all the time. Apparently everyone on this whole fucking planet wants to fuck their """step-"""sister (TOTALLY NOT BLOOD RELATED) and aside from my dislike of the fetish in general it just gets fucking tiring.

 

[gamersglory]

I find That incest in most adult games has become a lazy way to use as a shortcut to explaining long term relationships with the love interest instead of setting up the story properly. There has been a handful ware it works. but most often it's done due to lack of backstory.

 

[Scales]

Incest is one of my favorite fetishes on the site. It's one I obtained long before porn games existed, though my first introduction to incest games was through AIF games through ADRIFT or TADS. I wouldn't have even heard about it, had I not stumbled one day into the adult section of "Google Directory" which no longer exists.

Anyway, I think there is one thing you may be forgetting: Corruption, or the normalization of extremes, is itself a fetish. (Which also happens to be my second favorite fetish)

The scenario you are describing is the combination of two fetishes. Not just incest, but incest and corruption. Its more than just living outside the norms yourself, and keeping it to yourself. It's about dragging others down with you. Perverting them and their world view. And that's part of what makes it hot, that corruption angle. Sometimes it is taken very literally, and focuses on demonization. Other times, it focuses on individual vices, slowly ramped up over time. Lust is the obvious one, but I feel a clever writer could use the others to make a very interesting porn game. Increasing someone's greed or pride could lead to sexy situations as much as lust.

As with all things, this can be done well or poorly. When the switch suddenly gets flipped, it doesn't feel right, and its less satisfying. But slowly egging them onto the idea, opening them up piece by piece can be hot. IMO, the corruption fetish is generally for those who like slow porn and patience. Those who want to get in and get off may dislike games that focus on proper corruption but happens to have other fetishes that normally suit them.

At the end of the day though, you really can't please everyone all the time. Perhaps there needs to more incest games as you have described, but the other type most definitely should NOT go away.

 

[Tranquil Rain]

Tbh I don't even know what to say to this thread, the examples given here as far as my experiences go are rare. Most incest games I have found on here the mc doesn't have friends and if he does they aren't really into incest. And in the cases of both boxes being ticked and the friend is trying to ntr you or your helping them commit incest I am all for it. Ntr games need more normal enemies, I am sick of 500 pound ugly tumors doing to ntr, let the friend thats normal looking do it. As for helping them I would say I don't mind as long as his family member isn't that hot (Timestamps I didn't want to help him, I wanted that milf for myself.)

As for corruption and normalizing incest, on one hand I really hate games that blue ball you half the game because " I see mommy naked, my peepee hard.... Omg whats wrong with me" and then proceeds to take until the end of the game to score. Don't get me wrong slow burns are great some times but for incest games the mc's should have something different in them making it not too hard for it to proceed (look at all the milked incest games that go nowhere and are stretched out with map moving, and bs).

Anyways I don't even know what I am talking about anymore, so for the ntr part of the convo I will leave this here

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[Joshua Tree]

Think one of the bigger issues is lack of good stories and character archs. Also, if the protags love interest is a family member. Should that mean that the protag should fuck every family member down to the family dog in process of pursue that li?
If there is just one love interest, the game is prone to have a lot of blue balling before get down and dirty. But I dare say a good game dev/story teller should still been able to make the journey enjoyable for the player.

 

[Ataios]

I also have some issues here, though not with incest itself, but with the way it is presented in most porn games. The main problems for me are:

1) Wimpy shota boy sons, often smaller than their mother. There is really nothing more disgusting than child-like characters in pron games. Make the protagonist a ruthless business man or an unstoppable warrior. The kind of character, who can have any woman, but seeks the ultimate taboo. No teenage loser.

2) Naive and stupid characters. Son sees mom naked and has no idea why his penis becomes hard. Mom sees son's penis and reacts like she had never seen a penis before. No more of this please.

3) Trivial annoying obnoxious characters in boring present day settings. Worst example being Big Brother.

4) School settings. No school boy protagonists please!

5) Far too few lesbian incest games. And no, lesbian scenes turning into MFF threesomes and performances for male characters don't count!

 

[Akamari]

Ok, I was kinda click-baiting here; I like incest as a plot point for the MC.

I am appalled. I was looking for No More Incest Club and it turns out into this? Now, I have to go call Patreon hotline again to hear the sweet little lies they've put a stop to this practice.

 

[Holy Bacchus]

JollyGeorgieM

I hear you on this one. As a huge fan of incest games, I can say that I have come across many where the MC encounters other characters who are either committing incest, want to commit incest, or find incest hot. Since I myself find absolutely nothing wrong with consensual sex between related adults, I don't really mind if there are characters like this in these games, however, I feel like it's far too common and is really just a lazy way for the dev to justify the MC giving in to their incestuous desires rather than at least trying a to craft decent story behind it.

 

[Ataios]

A basic problem is, that the game always starts with a more or less normal family that gets into incest out of nowhere. They have lived together all there lives and a glance at mom under the shower is sufficient for a family of average people to start incestuous orgies the next day, which lacks any credibility. A little more variation in story wouldn't harm anyway:

- In most cases the MC lives in his mom's house and the mom is a rather caring or even doting mom - not the most plausible background for incest. What if it where the other way round. What if the mom was forced to move to her son or daughter and his or her partner after a divorce? What if she was a rather neglecting mom during the MC's childhood? That would be a good start for a blackmail scenario and not as worn out as "Mom, I saw with Uncle Bill! Give me a blowjob, or I'll tell dad." The avoid Patreon's wrath you could also make the scenario between the mom and her offspring's spouse.

- I wonder why no developer has yet made a game set in red light districts. The MC's parents could be a pimp and one of his whores and after the father's death, the son or daughter inherits his business with the mom still working for him or her.

- For any scenario where the MC dominates his mother, sister, aunt or any other character: If your MC exerts power, give him a basis for that power. And do not ever let this basis be a mind controlling drug, that somehow finds it's way to the next teenage loser with mommy issues. In present day settings, make him or her rich. In fantasy settings let him or her be powerful sorcerer or warrior. In science-fiction worlds let him or invent something important (but not mind control drugs). It's not that difficult.

- There could be more scenarios, where the character's don't know they are related (though the player does). Would work easiest with dad/daughter games (which I don't like) but would also be possible with a mom who gave her kids up for adoption.

- Make characters more consistent. The MC heroically saves a girl from the school bully - than he goes home, drugs his mom and rapes her. All too common in porn games, but not very credible. If you want to make the protagonist evil, make him evil, let him be the bully feared by all the girls and than let him rape his mother all night long. If you want to make the protagonist virtuous, let him save the girl from the bully and then save his mom from his abusive father. Or do something in the middle, just make it somehow credible.

 

[slitherhence]

Ok, I was kinda click-baiting here; I like incest as a plot point for the MC. My main issue, and the thing I wanted some feedback on, is when allowing incest means the MC's friends start getting into the family business. Incest that you are a willing participant in is titillating because it is "wrong": the scandal adds spice (imo). But that gets ruined when a) people find out and are totally cool with it (making it no longer exciting because there is no more taboo); b) every third person you meet just so happens to also be committing incest (making it unoriginal); and/or c) your "friend" has been thirsty for the wincest but you've been chasing their mom/sister/cousin yourself (making them both a rival and a sick bastard - how did we even become friends? This town ain't big enough for two sick bastards, dammit!). C) is extra bad if they actually succeed, because it taints whomever they manage to pull as well.

In regards to that last one, c), I find this especially offensive. I don't want to engage in an NTR debate, it's generally pointless as far as I've seen. But if I've made overtures to a character and then, because they got horny for me they decide "What the hell, I like my son/sibling's best friend, that's basically the same as liking my son/sibling, let's bang them too!" - I find it disgusting. It is not sexy to watch incest I had no part in, and it makes whomever I was pursuing in the relationship seem icky to me. There is no "friend" I am willing to help commit incest and it disinclines me from romancing the girl if she is shown to even consider it (though admittedly I may still go for her... uh, for her sake, to save her. Yeah, that's why. It's for her ).

I have plenty of examples of incest games (and I'm sure you all can think of even more) where you meet someone and what do you know? They also diddled daddy! They also enjoy banging their brother! Or on the flip side, they've been pining after their mother too (and generally yours as well, the assholes)! And what wouldn't they give for a side of sister with their main course? Please, stop this. It fundamentally undermines the appeal of incest (at least as I understand it). If you banging your relatives is ordinary, or even just treated as ordinary, then THE SEX IS ORDINARY. It's not special anymore. It's not a taboo relationship. Kink destroyed. Game over.

What do you guys think? This is why I loathe characters like Bacon in Timestamps and James in Sisterly Lust - I'm supposed to like them, maybe even help them, but they undermine a key kink of the entire game (big thanks to Sisterly Lust for letting me tell James he's foul and to knock it off - yeah I'm a hypocrite, sue me)! It's why I started checking out of Dating My Daughter - Graham and his girl were important plot-wise (even if I only managed to tolerate them), but once some random lawyer in Donutstan (or wherever they are in Chapter 2) randomly fucks his niece too just because Wincest Hooray, it cheapened the fundamental premise of the game. Why was this relationship even a big deal in the first place if everyone else is doing it? Lastly, in the game that prodded me to make this rant (Family Matters), there's a girl who's having lesbian sex and just casually tosses in that she lost her virginity to her father - and THAT DOESN'T CHANGE ANYTHING. She brings this up in TWO SEPARATE SEXUAL ENCOUNTERS and neither time does it even slow the situations down. Nobody bats an eye. Come on! I get suspension of disbelief, and PLOT over plot, but incest is wincest because it's a rare, scary, difficult-to-manage secret special relationship NO-ONE BUT YOU AND THE RELATIVE WOULD UNDERSTAND. And to make a harem out of it takes even more skill and has even more exciting risks involved. Right? Is that not what makes it hot?

tl;dr: I would like the incest in incest games to be unique to relationships the MC forms, not widespread or widely accepted. If it is not, it cheapens the appeal imo. Thoughts?

Hmm... I fully get where you come from with the issue of incest not feeling being taboo and, as a result, losing much of it's appeal. I have the same issue with games that neither establish a familial relationship nor have the characters be blood related.

I also agree incest shouldn't be something people just suddenly go wild for. A character finding out their BFF is fucking his sister shouldn't suddenly make him want his own sister. However, it _should_ cause him to go from not even noticing he have a hot sister/mom to suddenly being much more aware of it. And, realistically, it's possible that could develop into an incestuous relationship but it's rather unlikely.

All that said, these games are meant to let us indulge in fantasies. And if one of those fantasies is an incest relationship... then more incest is better incest, imo. Even if the MCs best friend and the MC's brother both get in on the act (let's assume each with characters you're not personally involved with) I still have in my head that the vast majority of the game world's population is not... so it doesn't normalize it for me. And even if it was normal in the game world... I'm still aware that it isn't in our world. However, going back to the principle of "show, don't tell" I can understand if it does for you. Thus, while I can't agree that there should also be only one incest relationship per game... I can agree that some effort should be made to thoroughly establish that it's not the norm no matter how many people get in on the act.

Also, yeah, the NTR issue you describe are, imo, separate from incest... and not an opinion I share in any way. I like my sexual fantasies slutty and perverted... and, for me, seeing them fucking every cock or vag they can get their mitts on is hot. It wouldn't belong in a game about a romance between the MC and a family member... but it's definitely not a turn off. And even taking away the sluttiness... I'm not someone who is opposed to poly relationships. I have no need to "possess" my sexual/romantic partners. But to each their own.

A basic problem is, that the game always starts with a more or less normal family that gets into incest out of nowhere. They have lived together all there lives and a glance at mom under the shower is sufficient for a family of average people to start incestuous orgies the next day, which lacks any credibility. A little more variation in story wouldn't harm anyway:

This is the "telling instead of showing" problem that's I've reference many times. How many times have we seen comments on release threads like "is there sex yet?"? Lots. Devs know they have to deliver the sexy times asap in their games. And that means an incest focused game jumps into incest right away. The problem is this leaves no room for establishing a familiar relationship first... and yes, this makes it significantly less believable. We are told these people are family... but never really shown it. This is why I prefer games where the characters are blood related but have only just recently reconnected. Dating my Daughter has become the go-to example for this, but there are plenty of others. For some it also makes it more believable as this is more in line with real-world examples of incestuous relationships (as opposed to incest experimentation).

However, possibly my favorite game on this site, The Last Sovereign, has an adoptive-incest relationship that is amazing. I normally rail against step-/adoptive incest... but that comes back to the lack of setup for the familial relationship which, like the op's issue, removes all sense of the taboo for me. The Last Sovereign is not an incest game though. It delivers plentiful sexy times with a host of other characters, none of which are related to the MC, and doesn't even introduce the MC's adoptive daughter till several hours into the game. And after introducing her it's many more hours before the first signs of sexual tension between them show up... resulting from a combination of sex magic and their day to day lives basically marinating in sexual tension between the MC and the other characters.

During the time between the MC's adoptive daughter appearing in the story and the first real signs of sexual tension between them the familial relationship they have is amazingly established. From the way the daughter often shares mannerism's and behavior with her father... to the way her father beams with pride when his daughter accomplishes something... to the way the daughter subtly seeks her father's approval and takes care of him. And when the sexual tension between them finally comes to a head and they have sex... even the sex has that same feel of a father doting on/being proud of his daughter and a daughter seeking the approval of her father. It's a dynamic that _can't_ exist in a non-incestuous relationship. It's romantic, in an strangely incestuous way, and makes for some of the hottest incest scenes I've seen.

But, again, 10+ of hours of gameplay to get to that point.

- For any scenario where the MC dominates his mother, sister, aunt or any other character: If your MC exerts power, give him a basis for that power. And do not ever let this basis be a mind controlling drug, that somehow finds it's way to the next teenage loser with mommy issues.

Seconded on the MC drugs. I can enjoy mindcontrol content. But I like incest content more... and the mind control content seriously waters it down.

Really I agree with most of what you say.

 

[Adabelitoo]

It's funny, a while ago I was reading a thread called and the tldr was kinda like "Yeah, it's not such a big deal" and now I am reading this thread and getting a vibe like "WTF? Another guy is fucking his mother too? This is a fraud!"

I don't feel like it is bad to know that another character in the game is having fun with his relatives or trying to have fun with them. I do think that knowing that some one else is doing it should have an impact but it highly depends on the circumstances and the character, if you found out that the school's public cumdumpster wakes up her brothers with a blowjob every morning while you are fucking the shit out of her brain, then no, it shouldn't be anything relevant to the game, I would love to see that scene and not just read about it, but nothing should change in the game because of that, but if we found out that a girl who has problems socializing with others was raped by his father then yes, please make it important, and if we found out that a random guy is also fucking his mother too, I would love to know more about that and I don't think that the game is losing his incest value because the MC isn't the only male having fun

And all this leads to another big problem i have with the genre: It's oversaturation. Go on any live-action-porn site, read any doujin, play any porn game. All incest all the time. Apparently everyone on this whole fucking planet wants to fuck their """step-"""sister (TOTALLY NOT BLOOD RELATED) and aside from my dislike of the fetish in general it just gets fucking tiring.

As an incest fan, this is something that always payed attention to it, and no, this is wrong. Every porn site that I found and let you somehow see how many times a tag is used on a video/game/doujin/whatever, the incest tag is not even top 10-20 on those sites at least the site is only about incest. Those who hates NTR have the same idea of you and they see everything as NTR, and no, usually NTR ranks above incest but it is still far from reality, See the games here as an example, a lot of time I read about how this site is about "incest games" and an "incest forum" but if you use the search tools in the game section, you will see that only 692 games of 4196 total games in this forum have incest in some way, That is only a 16,5%

 

[Glad]

What you are describing is not so much a problem with incest "genre" but writing itself. Things get bloated and repetitive. And when incest is a selling point, there is just more incest.
And I hate incest as a main, in-your-face, selling point. I hate games that pretend not to be incest with text replace even more.
BUT incest as a plot device to drive plot is not so bad. There was this hentai manga recently(within last 12 months IIRC), where incest is a massive plot point but it's not hinted or revealed until the second half of 4 or 5 chapter series. And it was great! Instead of shoving it into my face, it used it to drive the plot somewhere.

 

[Ataios]

I think a general problem with the genre, which is not even the fault of any single developer, is that it has become so common, that the taboo nature has far declined as far as porn games go. Players may have been surprised when the protagonist of a porn game fucked his mother for the first time. Now, if a protagonist's mother appears in a game, we just ask ourselves, who it will takes, until the protagonist is able to fuck her. A porn game protagonist fucks his mother and sisters in porn games much like an elf has pointed ears and a dwarf has a beard in fantasy games. It has become some sort norm.

 

[victor659]

Some people like incest games some people are not. Some people like games that have a good and interesting story and some others don't give a shit about story. I hate when people complaining that they don't like some type of games because they don't respect others who do. There are so many games out there, I don't like most of them but i don't complain because i know that other people like them. I search for the games i like and i will stick to them. Generally i advise devs to not hear what people say and make the game as they like. THE IMPORTANT THING IS DEVS TO HAVE THE FREEDOM TO MAKE THEIR GAMES AS THEY LIKE. But when we come to certain "fetishes" (like incest) devs unfortunately don't have the freedom to do the game as they like and this is not good.

 

[polywog]

every third person you meet just so happens to also be committing incest

Statistically about 50% of the population has been affected by incest to some degree.

You must be registered to see the links

Mother - Son incest today, is the highest ever in history.
In homes where there is no father - divorced or single mother. 71% of the children are a) molested, b)teen pregnancy, c) drop out of high school. It's sad.

 

[FranceToast]

Now, if a protagonist's mother appears in a game, we just ask ourselves, who it will takes, until the protagonist is able to fuck her.

My first thought now is "how is the developer going to frame this so it also works with the Landlady/Neighbor to get past Patreon while still keeping the story remotely plausible/interesting"

 

[4444taco]

I just dig big tits, and phat ass. Just most commonly set up as the mother figure.

 

[Grape Juice]

Some people like incest games some people are not. Some people like games that have a good and interesting story and some others don't give a shit about story. I hate when people complaining that they don't like some type of games because they don't respect others who do. There are so many games out there, I don't like most of them but i don't complain because i know that other people like them. I search for the games i like and i will stick to them. Generally i advise devs to not hear what people say and make the game as they like. THE IMPORTANT THING IS DEVS TO HAVE THE FREEDOM TO MAKE THEIR GAMES AS THEY LIKE. But when we come to certain "fetishes" (like incest) devs unfortunately don't have the freedom to do the game as they like and this is not good.

That's a stupid take. All art is allowed to and should be criticized. Doesn't matter if it's just stupid little porn games made by one person in their basement. Also the OP was specifically asking for personal opinions on the topic/the subgrenre, so your whole thing about "don't bully other peoples tastes" makes no sense anyway.

"THE IMPORTANT THING IS DEVS TO HAVE THE FREEDOM TO MAKE THEIR GAMES AS THEY LIKE"
uh... ok? i mean yeah, great. but that doesn't mean we, the people, shouldn't have the FREEDOM to not like what any specific dev is doing and also voice our opinions, because in the end we only like that better games are made and if some dev stumbles over this thread and thinks to themselves "hey, maybe i can improve my approach to writing my games" we already achieved a lot. even if they still make incest games but improve their writing on them to make them more appealing to people who complain about monotony in the genre, not the genre itself.