The Crisis in the Adult Gaming Industry

Syr96

Newbie
Aug 5, 2019
41
94
Since I'm dealing with the negative sides of the industry here, the positive ones are largely left out. I am very grateful to many devs for their hard work and passion. After all, they are the ones who often make their works available free of charge. English isnt my native language. If you find mistakes, you can keep them.

Is the adult gaming industry in crisis?
More games are being produced than ever before. There are new games every week, others are updated. In addition, the number of players and paetrons, i.e. those who support the developers financially, is growing. So why do I speak of a crisis? Perhaps crisis is the wrong word. But I can't help but feel that the industry is at a dead end, or about to maneuver itself into one. Because it has come to a standstill. One game follows the next. The characters, assets and story are often interchangeable. Sometimes it even happens to me that I download a game, start it and after a short time I'm not sure whether I've played the game before. Was it so generic that I'm confusing it with another? Or so boring that I can't remember playing it.
The industry is still new. Normally, a new, growing industry also generates new ideas. The market should change rapidly, and new concepts should bring a breath of fresh air. Instead, there has already been a standstill. Basically it runs on 4 different sandbox games, visual novels, RPGM and trainer. There are so many overlaps that they hardly differ from each other. Some sandbox games do not offer any differences to a VN apart from a navigation system.
Of course, there are good games for everyone in the areas mentioned. However, I noticed that there is less and less variety in the games. Even the many new games that are flooding the market don't change this. While many of these are good-looking, solidly coded, and well-written (at least by industry standards), all of these games follow the same path as their predecessors. This creates a feeling of wear and tear. You start a new game and after just a few minutes you're thinking "I already know that." I know the characters, I know the assets. I've seen a similar story before.
What is missing is something new. Some innovation. The courage to try new things. And unfortunately not only in one, but in almost all areas. At this point I would like to go into the problems of the individual areas.

Setting
Especially with the setting, you should actually be able to assume that you will encounter a wide range of different games. Not only our real world offers numerous role models. In the course of human history, an almost inexhaustible supply of stories, myths, sagas, legends, etc. has formed and could be used.
Instead, one encounters the same setting over and over again. A look at the most watched games page clearly shows that most play either in college or in the "landlady's" family. In between there are a few games with a classic fantasy harem setting as well as one or the other parody of well-known series/books and we already have 90% of the games covered.
First of all, that doesn't have to be a bad thing. But often it is. Because if nothing new is added, something that makes the game unique and sets it apart from the others, then it's just a pretty lifeless copy. Personally, I miss games in which other settings or genres play a major role. For example, I would be very happy about a real horror game. Think of a game like Until Dawn as an adult game. I also find the “working place” setting far too underrepresented so far. I'd love to work my way up from scrub to chief resident, cruising the streets of a metropolis as a patrolman and choosing for myself whether I'm a law-abiding cop or a corrupt cop. There are so many opportunities that just aren't being used.

Story
The story is closely connected to the setting. And here we have one of the biggest weaknesses in the industry. Because most games don't have a real story. In many cases events are linked together by the Dev. The way from one bed to the next is sold as a story. In fact, I find the condition so bad that I skip much of the text on most games (although reading is one of my hobbies). Why should I read for 10 minutes the MC talking to the LI about breakfast and absolutely nothing interesting happening? That might work if I cared about the characters (a problem I'll get to in a moment). The scenes are often written in such a way that neither the story is advanced nor that the characters are better developed. And no, knowing what everyone's favorite jam is has nothing to do with character development or immersion. Unless you bring up the subject again later and an evil clone of the LI tries to convince you that she is the real one and by asking her her favorite jam you find out the truth. Right now, however, most stories are just a collection of scenes that lead to one place. To the MC's bed.

The characters
We all know it. We start a game and we encounter a character who seems to be a walking stereotype. You got the big bitch stepsister, the innocent little stepsister. The nerdy computer girl who likes cosplay. Tsundere, Yandere, the jock, the bitch. The horny milf who can't control herself. Classic concepts are used. This can work if you expand it further. Giving the characters a real story, a motivation of their own, or anything that makes them human. In fact, this aspect should be central to most visual novels. Especially when we don't have a big story, the characters have to be convincing. But that often doesn't happen. They remain walking clichés that jump into the MC's lap.
While the women are walking and often badass stereotypes, the MC is often a nearly unbearable person. Either the character is just an unpleasant, embarrassing and sex-obsessed creep (it would be interesting if this behavior had corresponding consequences), a coward, a perfect model boy, etc. Often the characters are involuntarily absurd or unsympathetic. The emphasis is on involuntary. Because if the devs thought of something, such characters would have potential. It can be fun to play a creep, a wimp, or an asshole. But only if it is wanted and leads somewhere. Instead, we often have the situation that a very unpleasant MC is swarmed by the women as if he were Mr. Perfect. Regardless of how he behaves or what kind of person he is. That's just bad writing. Why women are interested in him is often very questionable. Although, after all, the women in many games are so characterless that it doesn't make a big difference. In addition, the women are all inexperienced anyway (except for NTR games), had a maximum of one boyfriend who didn't make it anyway. Or the ex is a huge stupid asshole, which is why you break up with him with the help of the MC. Of course they never had sex. And that the MC is just as big an asshole is also ignored. After all, everyone loves. Because??? I do not know. big dick That's it. If I want to see characters like that, then I can do that on Pornhub, because there's no more character development there either. The difference. The films there are a maximum of an hour long. Here I am tormented game after game, hour after hour.

Annoying tropes
Dev A: I need an idea for the next update. What is innovative and could and players like. Dev B: Why don't you do a yoga scene? There's never been anything like it!
I could now open my own yoga studio and work as a yogi, I know all the figures by now. I think everyone here can off the top of 20 different scenes that you see in pretty much every game. There are even separate posts here in the forum where tropes are collected that you can no longer see. I would like to emphasize that I have nothing against such scenes in principle. If they're done well, I never tire of watching those scenes either. But far too often it strikes me that the dev just copies what seems to work without questioning how it works best. Often these scenes just seem like filler and serve no purpose.
The use of the same tropes over and over again does not only apply to the choice of scene. We encounter the tropes in almost every area of the game. I won't go into it any further at this point, since you can read enough about it in the forum.

The decision system
Most of the games here are based on the player making decisions for the MC. This is where the appeal of the games lies, as it gives you the feeling of influencing the story yourself. If you take the choices out, they're just stories. So with this core mechanic, the dev has to make sure to do almost everything right. And unfortunately there is also a big problem here, as many have not understood what makes a good decision-making system.
We all know it. The MC faces a seemingly difficult decision and we have to make a decision. We weigh, make a decision and save a little later and see what would have happened if we had made a different decision. Often the answer is: nothing. 3 or 4 different images or sentences and we're back on the path the dev planned. There's another sentence and then it goes back to what the dev wants. Basically, if the dev wants to tell a linear story, it's fine. But then you should save yourself these fake decisions. However, I find it almost even worse when decisions are not at all comprehensible or downright grotesquely simple.

Example:
LI: “Hey MC, which dress do you prefer. The red, blue or green?
MC: I prefer blue.
LI: "OMG you stupid idiot. I told you in a completely unneccecary scene that my cat had been killed by a blue car."
Result: No scene with her. Path blocked.

Other example:
LI: "Hey MC, do you think I am ugly."
MC Option A: Yes, you are so fucking ugly it hurt my eyes. Option B: No, you are beautiful.


Often devs tend to either ask absolutely ridiculous decision questions where the normal gamer has absolutely no idea what the outcome will be, or make it so obvious that even the dumbest person in the world would be able to understand it. Both are just bad and no fun. This means that you need a walkthrough for many games in order to get to the desired scenes. Each point awarded or not awarded should be comprehensible to the player. At least if you take the trouble to read the lyrics and put yourself in the shoes of the characters (which, however, requires a reasonably interesting story and solid characters).

Paetron - a problem for the industry
Most games are funded through Paetron. The dev receives monthly money from his backers to develop the game. In return, they receive certain benefits (earlier access, voting rights, etc.). Actually a good system. Because with the monthly income, a dev can develop his games with a certain planning security. But the system also has huge problems. Both for the developers and for the supporters.
After all, as a supporter you can't check whether the game is really being worked on. And so it happens that some DEVs wait for months or years, don't deliver anything and if an update does come, then it's a joke. I think we all know enough examples. Despite this, the numbers of paetrons are not decreasing, or only very slowly. Some simply forget that they support the dev, others behave like fan boys and believe the excuses that are constantly being made. A normal company would be broke in a short time with such methods. But thanks to the subscription system and no legal obligations, the power lies with the developer. There are also psychological effects. Someone who is deceived would rather remain in the deceit than admit they were wrong. There is no other way I can explain the high number of supporters for clear scammers.
Sure, everyone can decide for themselves how they want to use their money. But in the end everyone has to be aware that doing so is damaging the entire industry. On the one hand, it shows that you can get away with it as a dev (once you've achieved some level of success). On the other hand, it also harms other devs because financial capacities are tied up in projects that are stuck in a dead end. As a result, other developers lack financial support. This is especially problematic for newcomers. But the developers who do good work regularly and consistently also suffer. They often do too good and constant work. That sounds paradoxical. But the good devs also bring their updates without additional support because they are passionate about their project. This can tempt one or the other supporter to prefer to finance other projects. Projects where you get the feeling (often contrary to reality) that more and better updates will come about through support.
There are some devs who at least bring regular updates, but still cannot make a living from the development, even though the games consistently receive good ratings. Shouldn't it be in all our senses to support motivated and reliable devs? Because this is how the industry grows and we give the devs the opportunity to be creative and maybe even implement new, daring ideas. That would be really good for the industry.
 

DawnCry

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,216
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Well from what I see the problems of the adult gaming industry are actually two:

-First of all we have many developers that had no previous knowledge about making a game but start with a project too big for their capabilities, this tends to originate many bugs and even having to remake the game to solve broken/old systems that made it really hard for the developer to advance.

Making a shorter game and trying to show what you want to do would be a much better first step than directly starting with that super-mega-ultra incredible project that would take 20+ years of development.

A clear example of this can be found on the many ren'py games that focus a lot on a "love" stat rather than having flags. A flag is mostly used in development because later on it will have some effect, however contrary to stat increase/decrease it gives a more real feeling, even better is when you combine both, options that are negative at first but can end up being very positive thanks to future outcomes.

-Second patreon is one of the issues but not because of the way people support or that scams exist, but because we have many whiners, when a game tries to be different you will have a bunch of people feeling like experts and that they know what tags should and shouldn't be added.

For example imagine that someone was trying to make a strategy game in which you could capture female heroines and you could have yours captured, here we have a concept that as a game it can work quite well but suddenly you will get many fans of harem come and say "no, why did you add NTR?!, harem should never be next to NTR! you are wasting your game!!", while the NTR fans would be "We want more corruption!, more betrayal!, graaaah!", in the meantime the developer was trying to make his concept and didn't want players to feel betrayal or bad feelings but it was just a game mechanic.

When I see many japanese developed games it tends to be different, you have a game with a concept and you decide if you like it or not, here we have so much feedback telling the developer what they should do related to x or y tag that it's very hard to not end up being generic and without soul.
 
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The Anax

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Oct 24, 2017
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Syr96 - Thanks for sharing your thoughts! It's definitely a complex situation with an enormous number of variables. I think that you are right in that the vast majority of adult game projects are either very redundant or vapid. I obviously will not name names, and such, but I can speak for my own work (which revolves around my own fetishes) and say that after doing this for 8 years I have learned much. But I have always focused specifically on depth of story/worldbuilding/lore.

For me, to sum up your large thoughts here, it's to me the difference between what I, myself, call erotica and porn. To me, porn is very simplistic, and being almost 50 years old, I think back to the porn of the 80's. The pizza guy is here and she has no money but will pay another way. The poolboy is here to clean the pool and more. Porn, in my mind, is mostly meaningless, and focuses almost entirely on the sexual side only, while vastly ignoring things like character development, story, or so on.

Erotica, to me, has a big balance. It has sexual things, but it is not geared to "get this person off as quick as possible", and tends to have at least some sort of attempt to create a cohesive story and immerse the audience into it. In my case, I have built a massive world based on real-world history, mythology, religions, philosophy, and science. There is plenty of "sexual content", but it is all part of a very detailed environment (the Anaxverse). I've literally got fan mail saying things like "I never expected to literally cry when playing a porn game" or "I literally get pissed off and want to punch my screen because I hate this character so much, as if they are a real person!".

I do wish more creators would take this level of effort, but also, there are those that probably prefer the more uninspiring/dull/unimaginative projects that are simple and require little besides penis ejaculates in vagina, or what have you. In fact, based on some patreons out there, I dare say that some of them make 3 times or more than my own work (though I am sure some have to do with fetishes), it could mean the masses just want something insipidly simplistic. Anyway, thanks for this post, it was fun to read and think about.
 

Atemsiel

Developer of Stormside
Game Developer
Jan 4, 2022
717
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I mean, at the end of the day, these games are porn. Sure, the porn industry has innovated in a sense in that now there's stuff like VR porn, and live cam to cam interaction (In the case of camgirls), but thats relatively recent. Think about when that industry was new. It was just people getting freaky on camera. Just because an industry isn't constantly bringing out new game changing stuff doesn't mean it's in crisis in my opinion. Not if it's already doing what it needs to do.

That being said, I'm a school based harem game dev, using HS2 for renders, so my game is competing in the space which is probably most filled with the kind of thing you're talking about. My point I guess is that not everyone is trying to innovate, because this isn't the goal. Some devs are just trying to make a game that they like, and I don't think that's a crisis. I think the crisis is more around people getting bored of things they used to find hot, due to over exposure, but that's not the fault of the people making the content, that's the fault of person overconsuming.

You gotta remember that this whole thing happens in other media too. There's so much stuff that gets released every day, but you don't hear about most of it because how would you? Most people aren't browsing a list of every movie that gets released, or every book that comes out and deciding what to play/watch/read based on that. The stuff made by professionals tend to have marketing also done by professionals. Obviously this isn't really possible for most adult game devs, but try browsing a list of all movies that get released, including those made by just one guy, and it'll probably end up looking like the film industry is in crisis too.

Apologies if any of this came across as rude, it's not supposed to, but I see this kind of thread pop up all the time, and usually it just reads as "The industry is in trouble because I don't enjoy most stuff that comes out." The main problem facing this industry in my opinion is the risk of monetisation platforms and payment providers clamping down on adult content. Sure, a lot of devs aren't worried about this because it's just a hobby, and the money doesn't matter, but you'll probably still find they have patreon links, so even if they're not worried about it, it still has the potential to affect them depending on exactly what they're making.


Lmao I've been writing this so long that I don't even know if it's coherent anymore. I should go back to making game. Imma do that.

(Also, just read that bit you edited on the top. I agree with some of what you've said, and I disagree with other parts. In this I'm focusing on the parts I disagree with. That's all.)
 
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Deleted member 1952336

Ortus
Game Developer
Jan 18, 2020
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There are many factors that contribute to this.

One is that rating and feedback can heavily effect a Dev's desire to innovate. When Devs stray from the what the masses tend to like (popular character arch types, pacing, writing style, etc.), to more niche content they get a lot more negative feedback and often less support.

There's also timelines. If a dev wants to gain sufficient support to make this a full time job, they have to produce regular content with big enough updates. They also need high enough quality art and animations to stand out from crowd (more challenging than it looks), which very often means less time spent on story.

I've noticed that the best stories in games, usually have very little art and therefore don't get as much attention, except female audiences which prefer story over art (and there's much less of them).

Then there's the time cost of innovation which takes plenty of trial and error. Like many industries there are diminishing returns on innovation that comes with a higher risk of failure.

You mentioned horror games and I've seen a number of them fail for the reasons above. It mostly comes down to the challenge of time management.

But I do think we will continue to see innovation, just at a slower pace and focused on what the masses prefer. For example, just a few years ago many games did not have animations, and the ones that did often had only two alternating frames. A few more years before that and most games were extremely grindy and repetitive spending hours just to get rewarded with a single lewd image, and repeat. Standards for new games keep increasing although some of the older games do still get support for the reasons you addressed.

Slow innovation is not ideal but there's something happening here.
 
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JustXThings

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May 22, 2022
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Ok. I am going to answer just a tiny bit of your argument because I feel that too many times players do not "know" what they want, or they do not "understand" what what they want implies. Let's start by saying that this is not some kind of condescending comment. Let me explain.

Let's take a good book as an example which is also a movie and most people know. The Lord of the Rings. Now, imagine that The Lord of the Rings gave choices. Let's say that the player can decide whether Boromir dies. Maybe the player notices that Boromir is being tainted and doesn't want to travel with him anymore, tells Aragorn, Gandalf or whoever. They sit down and send him home. Now, the whole Lord of the Rings is impacted because the death of Boromir is influencing not only the characterization of the protagonists, but the whole lore the protagonists are to find.

So. Is it possible to give meaningful choices in a focused story ? Is it possible to give different personalities to the playable characters while having a meaningful story supporting it ? Not really, or yes with very small room.

I try addressing these two questions in my VN from the very beginning while explaining what the player should expect.

1) The personality of the characters can be cosmetically changed, but their demeanor WON'T change. A strong minded character is always strong minded. It cannot be turned into some weakling. This way I am sure that no decision of the player can actually turn around the whole story because at any point of the story the character has a well defined personality and expected behavior. The story will feel consistent from begin to end, because the characters will never be "out-of-character".

2) Meaningful choices impact the endings. I planned two endings from the very beginning. The story ends one way or another. Any other endings, say bad endings, or alternate endings, fan-service endings and what-not do NOT close the story. Again, taking Lord of The Rings as example, what would happen if Golum kills Frodo and takes the ring ? Well, the story ends. Because it is the story of Frodo, not Gollum. We don't know what happens to the ring afterwards, we don't know what happens to the wars going on, Sauron and what-not. Frodo dies. Story finishes.

With all this I am just trying to say that many choices and good story are usually opposites. If you read any "choose your own adventure" stories you will see what is their bread-and-butter. There are a handful of endings that wrap the story and many several cosmetic endings like "you turned to the left, there is a mob, shoots you, you die".
 

KleptoLizard

Newbie
Game Developer
Apr 11, 2018
93
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Well... I'm trying to push the envelope a little.
Been experimenting with multiplayer code.
Are there many multiplayer H-games other than modded Second Life or Flexible Survival?
 

shabadu

Newbie
Jun 5, 2020
80
149
Hey lemme pitch this great idea I had to you

We're gonna do an incest game because I fucking love incest so god damn much. Obviously, we want to do a POV character that's pretty bland overall but still has some wish fulfillment, so we'll go with an average, boring teenager who's hung like a pornstar. Let's call him Paul the Protagonist. He'll bang his mom since she'd be the closest and easiest to write, and of course she needs to be a bombshell - incest is only hot if the people doing it are hot, after all. That's really it for characters. I mean, maybe we can work in some aunts or cousins or whatever, but those can be in the sequels because this is just such a winner there will be dozens of these things.

Oh shit, I forgot about Paul's dad. We don't want any threats to our male protagonist, so he can't be around. We could just write him as being on a long business trip, but you know, incest doesn't really happen all on its own. Typically there's some kind of tragedy or trauma involved that fucks with emotions and kind of displaces what everyone considers normal. We can kill two birds here. The dad dies suddenly. No, wait, maybe a bit too traumatic. I got it - dad leaves suddenly. Just up and packs his bags one night.

Oh, and it's so he can run off and be with a younger woman! This is practically writing itself now. See, mom is gonna be all sorts of fucked up from this. She'll be upset and stressed out with her whole world flipped upside down. She's worried about money and needs to get a job or whatever. And most importantly, her self esteem will be in the trash and she'll feel like she's become too old and unattractive. The perfect setup for Paul to swoop in and be the man of the house while giving her the validation and attention she craves.

Still, though, we need a nice, smooth build up before anyone starts sinning. You know, really drive home the ramping sexual tension and believable story of mother and son rawdoggin'. Maybe we can have Paul ogle his mom's body, like at breakfast she wears a robe that's way too loose for her giant knockers. Or maybe she goes in to give Paul a peck on the cheek, but he turns his head and they "accidentally" make out. Or the best one - he walks in on her taking a shower, and despite whatever you want to do in this situation, he watches her. See, the shower peeping scene is actually genius because we get to show off mom's impossibly nice body as she gets all wet and rubs herself all over. It's so good, let's extend the scene and follow her as she leaves and moisturizes her nipples or whatever and gets dressed.

While we're working up to the main event, we're gonna need some filler sex to keep people interested. Why don't we give Paul a hot girlfriend. They can bang a few times, give us something to wank to as the story goes on. Since we're already being lazy, we can also just make her some huge slut, but not like a "she gets around" slut. More like a slut who invites her BFF over for a safe, non-threatening MFF threeway. Perfection.

The mom needs some pushing too, I guess. We could have her get groped at the first job she gets by her boss, forcing her to quit. That could help raise the stress and tension. We can also give her a close friend that she leans on for support, but the friend is secretly a huge pervert who only helps to corrupt her. The friend will make some comments about mom needing to find a young stud, stuff like that. She'll even set mom up on a date, but the guy's a swinger and thinks mom's a swinger too, so he takes her to this giant orgy that's going on. Of course, mom doesn't participate because this ain't some NTR cuck shit, but all the sights and sounds get stuck in her subconscious.

Here's where we bring it all together. Mom is all worked up now, she's tossing and turning in bed because she's just too damn horny to sleep. Visions of that orgy keep flashing in her mind. She gets up to drink some water and passes by Paul's room when BAM - his door is wide open, and he is sleeping naked on top of his sheets with his huge dick on full display. Mom's brain shuts down just from looking at, and she walks right in and starts sucking down that fat hog. Paul wakes up, is immediately ok with everything, and they bang.

The end. Roll credits. Certified gold, I guarantee it.

It doesn't sound too cliched, does it?

I sure hope not because I fucking lied! It's not my idea at all! It's actually the fucking synopsis for the movie Taboo, an adult film released in 1980! Nineteen mother fucking eighty! And while Paul isn't actually the main focus in the movie, everything I laid out happens, and it all sounds like a stupid copy paste incest game right down to the peeping in the shower. Don't believe me? Well go ahead and check it out for yourself because the entire movie is on pretty much every porn tube site these days, like .

So yeah, it can suck that there seems to be a lot of the same exact story and setting getting re-released over and over again, but it's not some unique problem to porn games. It's also not exactly unique to just porn in general, either. This is something that's kind of fundamental to humans. If there's something that we enjoy, then we tend to seek out more of the same which means there's always going to be a market for derivative shit.
 

Gwedelino

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Sep 4, 2017
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Often devs tend to either ask absolutely ridiculous decision questions where the normal gamer has absolutely no idea what the outcome will be, or make it so obvious that even the dumbest person in the world would be able to understand it.
I wanted to react to the second part of that specific statement, but I think it's not so easy for devs to find out how smart people that play their games will be. Considering how disruptive unhappy people can be in this specific market, I wouldn't be surprised to see devs purposely using very obvious choices just because they know that if they put on their choices just a glimpse of intelligence, then they would lose 5 % of their public, and sadly those 5% are the one who can pollute every single one of their communication network, be it Patreon, F95zone, Twitter or anything else.
 

The Anax

Well-Known Member
Game Developer
Oct 24, 2017
1,354
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shabadu - but it doesn't have to be that way. In my CoC game Cult of Corruption (there will be a future redux now that I learned Daz) there is incest, but it's all about demonic corruption and not at all cliche (I think).
 

Ophanim

Member
May 2, 2018
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415
I wanted to react to the second part of that specific statement, but I think it's not so easy for devs to find out how smart people that play their games will be. Considering how disruptive unhappy people can be in this specific market, I wouldn't be surprised to see devs purposely using very obvious choices just because they know that if they put on their choices just a glimpse of intelligence, then they would lose 5 % of their public, and sadly those 5% are the one who can pollute every single one of their communication network, be it Patreon, F95zone, Twitter or anything else.
That's a really good point, actually. The other day, someone who I felt was being a sycophant for a game with no proofreading told me 'You're the reason [niche] games like this are so rare', and I'm not certain they were wrong. As a developer, how damaging is it when one disgruntled person plays your game and, in their frustration, vents about their experience in a review/your thread? And are they wrong to, in the event that it's something that is unlikely to change about a game? To what extent should we, as users, apply 'don't like don't read' to a game and just move on, regardless of how a game makes us feel? If we have nothing nice to say about a work of art, should we say anything?

On the one hand, stigmatizing criticism leads to environments that feel very insular and cultish, and hostile to users who do not toe the party line. My go-to example here is the way the c-novel community forms cults of personality around low quality translations of chinese works, much like the weebs of yore, in an unabashed celebration of... the idea of orientalized China? On the other, exalting the 'critic intelligencia' as some kind of heroic force that lampoons over-inflated author egos is a position that provably stifles creativity, leading to a proliferation of safe, inoffensive projects, and for genuine cult classics to only be recognized in retrospect, following rounds of vicious, and often equally unimaginative, mockery for not toeing the party line.

Genuinely curious, as someone with a tendency to find catharsis over an experience in a round of bellyaching, but trying to be conscious of its wider effects. Sorry if this seems like a tangent, but I do think the interplay of audience/developer is pretty central to this topic.
 
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Aug 2, 2017
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An interesting take and I somewhat agree with your assessment. However there is reason why this is happening. Here is my opinion and take on it.

The reason why most games use the same setting "Landlord, Incest, College or Harem" is because that is kind of a kink most people have and what is selling the most.

I agree that most stories are stale and poorly written... I too... find myself skipping most of them. But there are some Gems out there... not many though.:)

Right now, however, most stories are just a collection of scenes that lead to one place. To the MC's bed.
This take I don't agree with. After all it is porn game and when push comes to show it is the kind of point of the game.;)

The characters
I agree with your statement. Character tropes are kind of a cheat and easy way out to introduce character as many people have seen those cookie cutter personalities before. And you don't need a lot to introduce them.

Regardless of how he behaves or what kind of person he is. That's just bad writing.
This is kind of a double edge sword. Here is example way... Lets say you play asshole character and the "goodie too shoes" female character hates assholes and would never had anything to do with you. As developer you would need to lock that content away and make it inaccessable. Me personally... I hate when some content is locked and requires "replaying" or most often save scumming to get to it. This also applies to Decision and story branching. Its very hard to find middle ground as each decision makes your work exponentially bigger.

Conclusion
I think the biggest "problem" or better word hindrance is monthly update expectation set up with previous projects and patreon. Creativity and creating something new, weather it is character, location, story elements requires exponentially more time than using something already there.
 

Hadley

Well-Known Member
Sep 18, 2017
1,027
1,843
I really wish Adult Games were more like normal Indie Games. You dont see a Indie Dev release a 0.1 Alpha and then ask for 10$/Month on Patreon so you get some minor Updates every month.

Subscription-Money does not motivate a Dev to actually finish a Game. Look at Summertime Saga. This Game has to be the biggest rip-off in Adult-Gaming history. Its like they try to work as slow as possible and lose themselves in little pointless details so they dont make too much progress.
 
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nulnil

Member
May 18, 2021
471
351
Is the adult gaming industry in crisis?
Yes, and all these problems stem from Visual Novels. Because they aren't games.

If I understand so, this is about uniqueness. You'd probably encounter this if any media has such a low barrier for entry (ren'py pretty much). If anyone could make a TV Show, we'd have hundreds of them all about the same thing.

Again, low barrier for entry. While some scenes in well-made shows like Breaking Bad may seem pointless or arbitrary, they often reveal something about the characters subtly. However, to joe schmoe, our bad writer, it seems making actually pointless scenes is the key to success,

The characters
This issue stems from sexual-narrative dissonance because:
  1. Too much sex undermines the story and makes it look like everthing revolves around the MC and his bed.
  2. Too little sex may save the story, but say goodbye to anyone wanting to really jack off to it.

The decision system
I'd say that linear stories are always going to trump decision/choice-based stories. In stories, characters almost always make mistakes or wrong choices. That's because stories would be boring if the characters magically knew the answer to every situation and never had any pressure on them. However, the player is pretty much a diety compared to the characters and always makes the right/correct choices because they never actually suffer the stress or lack of judgement a character feels. To make matters worse, this is sometimes acknowledged by the developer. If you choose the wrong choice, you either instantly die or lose an entire portion of the game's content.

In the end, the whole industry would be better off without >99% of the visual novels out there.
 
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Atemsiel

Developer of Stormside
Game Developer
Jan 4, 2022
717
1,938
I really wish Adult Games were more like normal Indie Games. You dont see a Indie Dev release a 0.1 Alpha and then ask for 10$/Month on Patreon so you get some minor Updates every month.

Subscription-Money does not motivate a Dev to actually finish a Game. Look at Summertime Saga. This Game has to be the biggest rip-off in Adult-Gaming history. Its like they try to work as slow as possible and lose themselves in little pointless details so they dont make too much progress.
You're right in saying that the subscription model doesn't motivate a dev to finish a project, but only after a certain level of support. If a game wants to tell a story, then the subscription model will potentially make it possible for that story to actually get completed, where it otherwise may not. Even VN's take a lot longer to make than most people who've never tried it would expect. I fell into the trap of thinking it was quick before I started, and I learned how foolish I was pretty quick. Luckily for me, I enjoy it, and I've also been lucky enough to gain modest support for my project in the form of subscriptions. Lack of support can kill projects early on. Doesn't always, but it can.

Summertime saga is a crazy example though that doesn't usually happen. It's in the "Too big to fail" category of adult games. I'd argue that most projects die due to lack of support, rather than stagnating due to too much support. There will always be the games making crazy money which are seen to not be doing enough, or to be dragging their heels, and perhaps they legitimately are. I just mean that the subscription model isn't the problem. The people continuing to pay subscriptions for games they're not happy with are the problem. And that's if there's actually a problem.

The subscription model is the only reason the west has an indie adult game scene at all in my opinion, without it, projects just wouldn't start, and there'd be nothing but nutaku games.
 
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Aug 2, 2017
16
7
I really wish Adult Games were more like normal Indie Games. You dont see a Indie Dev release a 0.1 Alpha and then ask for 10$/Month on Patreon so you get some minor Updates every month.

Subscription-Money does not motivate a Dev to actually finish a Game. Look at Summertime Saga. This Game has to be the biggest rip-off in Adult-Gaming history. Its like they try to work as slow as possible and lose themselves in little pointless details so they dont make too much progress.
I do agree with you that subscription model is somewhat broken but that is just because people are milking it, but there is this problem of productivity in every form of development. The more people you have the less shit will get done :giggle:.
 

ancienregimele

Well-Known Member
Sep 27, 2017
1,925
6,323
Patreon is a business model that doesn't necessarily work for the consumer. There should be some way to stop contributions where the goods aren't produced, without relying on the goodwill or honesty of the Dev to stop subscriptions when a hiatus occurs. [I don't refer to the genuine reasons people have to absent themselves from work but to those Devs who establish a pattern of not appearing to be productive. If it's writer's block some honest Devs say so]. IMO it's not really in crisis but is badly in need of reform. I don't buy into the idea that this is the equivalent of patrons of great artists in Renaissance times, some of whom didn't finish particular projects. People pay money & expect something in return. Those whose forgetfulness, faith in a certain favourite Dev/game, or reluctance to admit that they are throwing good money after bad.....well it's their money to spend as they wish but this won't lead to positive change in the conduct of the business transaction.

That leads to a second issue about where the money is coming from. Judging by stuff I've played, (& I mean games/VNs with sexual content), I would maintain that the stories are largely produced by men under 35 for other men under 18. That IMO leads to the lowest common denominators of horse cocks, (for wish fulfilment) & big busted "Mom" stereotypes because the kids like disproportionate figures on older women & complain if they don't get them, (for subconscious(?) wish fulfilment of returning to the warmth & comfort of their mother's breasts). I could list more of these stock characters but you get the idea. Their very presence in most stories virtually guarantees that the writing will be average at best. All of this is neatly covered in the standard phrase, "Hey, it's just a porn game." Again it's not a crisis, IMO, it's just stagnation to the point of banality.

This attitude's prevalence will never lead to any genuine innovation. Writing is hard. Writing a game/VN with multiple paths & sometimes conflicting storylines, is harder still. Many games start well but eventually morph into a plate of spaghetti because of all the multiple choices & their consequences. Plot-holes & lazy devices to move things forward start to appear. Some characters may change their personalities. It's then time to play something else.... One day the great porn game of the 21st century may be produced via the medium of 3d renders but not any time soon.

Then there's a blurring of the differences between erotica, (for which 3d VNs should be a perfect medium but so far havn't been....after the best part of 20 years) & ordinary porn, which tends to be crude, boring, doesn't require as much of a story & needs no logic at all.

Maybe there is a crisis.....
 
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watermankaku

Member
Feb 6, 2021
388
380
I hope they have special scenes and plots, not always cliches. For example, having sex in the street, standing in a car.