The ethics of having the game developer as OP

[junior20000]

The days passed, and what seemed to be a unanimous opinion, shows that it still has a lot of room to discuss.

Thank you guys for sharing your opinions! (b ᵔ▽ᵔ)b

 

[chainedpanda]

F95 is, and always has been fundamentally a piracy site. It's true that F95 has evolved to become a sort of hub for adult games, but its origins and purpose hasn't changed. My opinion is simple, just post it. Many developers don't like F95, but they have to use it anyway. Even if they create their own hub, the purpose of F95 would still not change.

I do admit that there is a real dilemma surrounding ethics in this case, but truthfully, the concept of adult games themselves is a moral dilemma. We have rape, incest, shota, loli, mind control, bestiality, and many more questionable tags here. Hell, half the games in this website are nothing but asset flips on it's best day. Not to mention how many developers are hiding from Patreons terns of service or using copywriten material in parody games? What about games that literally steal real imagery from models, agencies and studios? How many devs actually buy the software they use to create their games?

I'm not saying that we should just abandon morality outright, and I do think there is a line that we shouldn't cross. However, piracy? Not a line that any of us should realistically be concerned about. It's such a minor issue, and honestly, if I ever start to doubt this fact, than I should stop playing adult games entirely.

So, just post the update if you want to post it, it's really that simple.


Also if you're talking about posting the game yourself, pretty sure the mods will take over the thread themselves, at least until the dev comes forward to claim ownership. Things may have changed, but this is the way they did it in the past,. before F95 became the hub.

 

[RaBuddy]

It's up to you. You're the one who cares, hopefully.

A lot of people on this site will want you to share on principle but they don't know what game it is. They see the new updates page refresh everyday, it's not going to make a difference to them.

It probably won't benefit or hurt you if you leak it. Devs promise not to interfere with leaks, when they gain ownership of threads but they don't promise to leak the game themselves.
I don't know who leaked Hellcat Lounge but neither does Wanka and that guy hates everything about piracy.

If what you care about is the game succeeding and getting attention, you could make a big deal about it. Ransom Twitter followers or keep posting teasers.

Only you know how and why you care.

 

[anne O'nymous]

The days passed, and what seemed to be a unanimous opinion, shows that it still has a lot of room to discuss.

Where do you see a lot of room to discuss ? 66% choose "WTF are you talking about? Just post it, LOL!"...

I do admit that there is a real dilemma surrounding ethics in this case,

Dilemma that is generally solved by not sharing the version including Patreon/whatever exclusive content, or sharing the regular version first, then the Patreon/Whatever exclusive few days/weeks later.

 

[chainedpanda]

Dilemma that is generally solved by not sharing the version including Patreon/whatever exclusive content, or sharing the regular version first, then the Patreon/Whatever exclusive few days/weeks later.

I don't necessarily think a time limit really matters tbh. At best it's a compromise between the devs and leakers, but it doesn't fundamentally solve any of the devs issues. If this is the unwritten code that the community has decided on, I can accept it, but I also ultimately don't really see the point.

My argument largely remains the same that this is a piracy community first and foremost. We largely do whatever we want with pretty vague rules to maintain order. With that in mind, I think it's perfectly fine to create arbitrary rules if it helps calm developers and ease some peoples conscience. Even if it's irrelevant.

 

[♍VoidTraveler]

I think the middle ground is just fine:
If the game version is way behind the latest released one, post it.

 

[junior20000]

Where do you see a lot of room to discuss ? 66% choose "WTF are you talking about? Just post it, LOL!"...

I mean, it started with almost 90% choosing it. The result is pretty close to the feeling I have of people becoming more concerned about pirating. I already felt this in threads of great games and developers, which is totally reasonable. However, I came to feel it in threads of ANY developer or game.
As an example, developers that abuse paywalls are being criticized while being supported at the same time, by a considerable part of the community.

F95 is, and always has been fundamentally a piracy site. It's true that F95 has evolved to become a sort of hub for adult games, but its origins and purpose hasn't changed.

This! This is what I felt in the upcoming years. Like, a lot of devs coming here, making a "public version" when that is clearly marketing, posting it like "I support this community! I am leaking my own game here, so you guys can play it!"
Of course, there is no problem with public versions. However, if you are going to post it here, don't pretend to do it as you are leaking your game. Even more when there are the public and the paid versions. We all know that the former would exist with or without this forum since you need people playing it first, so they can make a more informed decision by supporting you or not, thus increasing the chance of having more people supporting you.

My argument largely remains the same that this is a piracy community first and foremost. We largely do whatever we want with pretty vague rules to maintain order. With that in mind, I think it's perfectly fine to create arbitrary rules if it helps calm developers and ease some peoples conscience. Even if it's irrelevant.

I agree. Also, I always asked myself how much "power" a developer has inside its game thread.
Also, the only "outrage" I saw in this community, concerning a game thread, was when a developer decided to put a miner inside the game exe and post it here.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I mean, it started with almost 90% choosing it.

And after nine months, it's still 66%...

The result is pretty close to the feeling I have of people becoming more concerned about pirating.

If they were really concerned about pirating, they wouldn't be here, and devs would have more supports. They are just more respectful of the devs, what is different.
Yet, is it really peoples being more respectful, or the trolls and other jerks that have been bored and moved to some other place ?

As an example, developers that abuse paywalls are being criticized while being supported at the same time, by a considerable part of the community.

And what exactly is the change in regard of five years ago ?
Threads tend to be more calm than they were two years ago, but that's all and it don't translate in more support for the devs.

Also, I always asked myself how much "power" a developer has inside its game thread.

The one naive members accept to give him...

Also, the only "outrage" I saw in this community, concerning a game thread, was when a developer decided to put a miner inside the game exe and post it here.

Oh, poor summer child, you clearly seen nothing.
I'll not give names, because I'm not a jerk, but what about that dev who decided to only make the current update public, and as full game to prevent people to use it as a patch ? What about that dev who used tons of alt account to praise his game with the subtlety of a Diplodocus trying to tip-toe through a minefield ? What about that dev who... God, I could goes for hours and still not name all the outrages that happened in game threads. All this without having to even resort to NTR/Harem/Futa topics.

 

[junior20000]

If they were really concerned about pirating, they wouldn't be here, and devs would have more supports. They are just more respectful of the devs, what is different.

This reminds me of someone here, a long time ago, in which said that he was a patreon of some game. A gentleman asked him for the newest update. The guy, member of this comunity, told him that pirating was wrong and did not post the update. W T F ???
Furthermore, the first thing that members of the "Don't leak the content of my favorite dev that I don't support" club do is... to download the newest leaked update...

Yet, is it really peoples being more respectful, or the trolls and other jerks that have been bored and moved to some other place ?

We may never know... A lot of them did, for sure, like the ones who decided to join during the Lolipocalypse.

Threads tend to be more calm than they were two years ago

Totally agree. Threads felt like a free-for-all when I first joined this community.

but what about that dev who decided to only make the current update public, and as full game to prevent people to use it as a patch

I can't recall it, maybe it was before I decided to create an account? (Quite an amusing case. Going to great lengths to try to make people buy their content which people would not buy to begin with. The history of the internet.)

What about that dev who used tons of alt account to praise his game with the subtlety of a Diplodocus trying to tip-toe through a minefield

I find this one quite hilarious, NGL.

All this without having to even resort to NTR/Harem/Futa topics.

This... we don't need to talk about this...

 

[Hagatagar]

The guy, member of this comunity, told him that pirating was wrong and did not post the update. W T F ???

I know this is about hypocritical users, but there are actually quite a few people here that are part of the community without pirating anything, simple because F95zone is the place to be for this kind of community.
What's more surprising are the users that don't even know this is a piracy forum. Sure it's not official written anywhere (who would do that?) but where do they think all the 'free' games come from?

 

[anne O'nymous]

Totally agree. Threads felt like a free-for-all when I first joined this community.

While it was the opposite.

Not that the forum wasn't a pirating place right from the starts, but the staff came to the "developer" badge and the Christmas contest (donor only) mostly as response to the members behavior, and to the presence of more and more devs on the forum, not the opposite.
I'll not give names (by respect for them, some being here only officiously), but up to ~2018/2019, almost all the devs that matters had an account here, or at least had a team member that had an account here. Many of those team members being even recruited among the regulars from the game thread.
And in the same time, most members were respecting them and their games. You wouldn't see posts like what you can now found in some threads (like WVM one by example) with members promising to leak the update the instant it will be released. While being pirates, members were also aware that there's a mandatory symbiosis needed, and therefore they had the habit to apply a grace period.

Be respectful of the devs, and they'll respect you in return, taking your opinion into account, and therefore improving their game. And, of course, letting to devs the time to reward their patrons (with a few days exclusivity) mean that they'll not have to drop the project due to a lack of support.
Obviously, abandoned games isn't something new, but it was less frequent. Precisely because there were less devs struggling to get a minimal amount of supports from the community ; most of the initial support at this time coming from here.
But, while the number of members increased more and more quickly with the time, the number of members understanding that this symbiosis is mandatory have, it, mostly stagnated. And, while it tend to change since the lockdowns, nowadays members believe that it's the devs that own them something, and not the opposite.
Yet, the truth is that, like 99,99% of the members support no one, the games would exist without them, while we would have nothing to play without the devs... But well, it's a zoomer thing I guess...

If it feel in your memory that games were instant leaked and all, it's mostly because of that respect. There weren't all those "hey, the update was released two seconds ago, why isn't it here yet ?" posts, and therefore anyone who wasn't a patron only knew that an update was available the moment it was leaked ; letting them with that feeeling that it was immediate.
But nowadays, too many peoples track their favorite games, lurking at the patreon/discord/whatever account of the dev, expecting to have everything while they give nothing at all in return. Not that all players have to be patrons, but if you like the game to the point that you track its update, then it also mean that you like it enough to give few bucks to its devs...
It's a question of respect. Being a pirate doesn't mean that you have to act like a total selfish jerk. It mean that you can't afford to pay for that particular the game, not that you expect to have everything for free.

I can't recall it, maybe it was before I decided to create an account?

I was in 2020, mid 2020 if my memory don't betray me...

(Quite an amusing case. Going to great lengths to try to make people buy their content which people would not buy to begin with. The history of the internet.)

Quite an amusing reasoning and conclusion. Believing that F95zone members do not represent the majority of the patrons, and that sharing through a mutual respect wasn't the spirit behind the initial rise of the net...

 

[chainedpanda]

I agree. Also, I always asked myself how much "power" a developer has inside its game thread.
Also, the only "outrage" I saw in this community, concerning a game thread, was when a developer decided to put a miner inside the game exe and post it here.

I can't say for certain, but from what I've seen, devs have very little control over their own thread. They seem to be able to edit the thread, change images, update some links, add additional notes etc. That said, things like leaks, mods and such can't be deleted by the dev. The same holds true if someone posts patreon exclusive content rather that be codes or otherwise.

If you click the report button on a post, you'll see a game update option. Whenever a leak, patch or mod gets added, either the poster or someone else will click that option, sending a ticket to the mods who then add it to the OP, the devs consent is irrelevant ASAIK. I've never seen a dev remove leaks from the OP, so I expect that they simply aren't able to remove links (hence why some games have broken mods and such).

As for outrage, just wait until you see NTR stuff pop up randomly in a game. Or look at some games where the developer is clearly milking the game? Those threads have completely devolved into hate for the dev.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I can't say for certain, but from what I've seen, devs have very little control over their own thread. They seem to be able to edit the thread, change images, update some links, add additional notes etc.

Strictly speaking they have no control over threads, they just have the right to edit their own posts, nothing more.
And like you said, there's still editions they can't do, like removing links by example. If it happen, they'll immediately loose the ownership of the thread opening, will probably get at least warning, and the links will be restored.

Having a "developer" badge only give one advantage, the access to a section of the forum where only members with that badge can access.

 

[peterppp]

I can't say for certain, but from what I've seen, devs have very little control over their own thread. They seem to be able to edit the thread, change images, update some links, add additional notes etc. That said, things like leaks, mods and such can't be deleted by the dev. The same holds true if someone posts patreon exclusive content rather that be codes or otherwise.

If you click the report button on a post, you'll see a game update option. Whenever a leak, patch or mod gets added, either the poster or someone else will click that option, sending a ticket to the mods who then add it to the OP, the devs consent is irrelevant ASAIK. I've never seen a dev remove leaks from the OP, so I expect that they simply aren't able to remove links (hence why some games have broken mods and such).

they CAN remove/add anything from/on the OP, but they aren't allowed to remove leaks and such. why is why you rarely see it, but it has happened