FTFaceless

Member
Jan 9, 2023
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My original query :

Where do we sell, tattered books, & tattered magazines . . . ?



Finally got a good enough rep with Jaylee, . . . she only buys the "tattered mags",
not the "tattered books", so still have to find, where/who, to take them to .

She also buys, damaged jewelry, and shiny stones .
That was all that I had at the time, so not sure if she'll buy anything else, yet .
She doesn't buy, cloth, or tattered clothes, either .
Tattered clothes or cloth are sellable either to girls on the second floor of the school (after meeting them, they appear at the market as well) or to the girl at the beach. Can't remember who exactly buys books tho, but I'm almost certain you can sell them too.
 

Highland_Hunter

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2019
1,231
526
Tattered clothes or cloth are sellable either to girls on the second floor of the school (after meeting them, they appear at the market as well) or to the girl at the beach. Can't remember who exactly buys books tho, but I'm almost certain you can sell them too.
I knew, who/where, the cloth and tattered clothes could be sold .
I was just letting others know, that Jaylee, doesn't buy those items . :cool:
 
Feb 27, 2018
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The 'rent' that Sammy pays, covers the Kitchen, Bath, Living, rooms and her Bed_room, right ?
That raises questions about who is actually enforcing property law and how contracts work in this setting. I think Sammie is just paying for access to the building and whatever maintenance or utilities are provided. I wonder what would happen if there was a dispute between a landlord and a tenant, or how disputes are handled generally in this setting. In an extreme example, what would happen for if your landlord died or people just stopped paying him. Would the guards actually step in? Do they have any sort of courts to handle disputes, and since they probably don't, do the guards have discretion to decide who is in the right in a dispute? Could we end up in a situation where we have the guards on our side so the landlord can't throw us out even though we don't pay rent? Could we gaslight the guards and say we totally did pay our rent but he is trying to extort us for double? The landlord isn't really economically productive if he isn't doing repairs or providing any value to the tenants, so the guards don't really have any incentive to help him except inertia from a legal system that doesn't seem to exist anymore.
How many guards are there for that matter? Does the Boxer out in front of the security hq actually run, or is it broken down and just for show? Are the guards a unified body or do the guards for different gates basically act indepentantly? Are the guards all armed, and if so, how well? If there was a riot would they have the ability to actually put it down? I get that this seems to take place in the UK, so the populace isn't very well armed, but there has been a breakdown of law and order for a while, craft firearms are likely proliferating even among the "law abiding" parts of the populace just to defend against all the dangers that nobody is around to protect them from.
 
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ChesseKun

Active Member
Nov 1, 2019
606
669
That raises questions about who is actually enforcing property law and how contracts work in this setting. I think Sammie is just paying for access to the building and whatever maintenance or utilities are provided. I wonder what would happen if there was a dispute between a landlord and a tenant, or how disputes are handled generally in this setting. In an extreme example, what would happen for if your landlord died or people just stopped paying him. Would the guards actually step in? Do they have any sort of courts to handle disputes, and since they probably don't, do the guards have discretion to decide who is in the right in a dispute? Could we end up in a situation where we have the guards on our side so the landlord can't throw us out even though we don't pay rent? Could we gaslight the guards and say we totally did pay our rent but he is trying to extort us for double? The landlord isn't really economically productive if he isn't doing repairs or providing any value to the tenants, so the guards don't really have any incentive to help him except inertia from a legal system that doesn't seem to exist anymore.
How many guards are there for that matter? Does the Boxer out in front of the security hq actually run, or is it broken down and just for show? Are the guards a unified body or do the guards for different gates basically act indepentantly? Are the guards all armed, and if so, how well? If there was a riot would they have the ability to actually put it down? I get that this seems to take place in the UK, so the populace isn't very well armed, but there has been a breakdown of law and order for a while, craft firearms are likely proliferating even among the "law abiding" parts of the populace just to defend against all the dangers that nobody is around to protect them from.
dude this is a porn game you are seriously overthinking it.
 

Penitensary

Member
May 10, 2020
477
403
That raises questions about who is actually enforcing property law and how contracts work in this setting. I think Sammie is just paying for access to the building and whatever maintenance or utilities are provided. I wonder what would happen if there was a dispute between a landlord and a tenant, or how disputes are handled generally in this setting. In an extreme example, what would happen for if your landlord died or people just stopped paying him. Would the guards actually step in? Do they have any sort of courts to handle disputes, and since they probably don't, do the guards have discretion to decide who is in the right in a dispute? Could we end up in a situation where we have the guards on our side so the landlord can't throw us out even though we don't pay rent? Could we gaslight the guards and say we totally did pay our rent but he is trying to extort us for double? The landlord isn't really economically productive if he isn't doing repairs or providing any value to the tenants, so the guards don't really have any incentive to help him except inertia from a legal system that doesn't seem to exist anymore.
How many guards are there for that matter? Does the Boxer out in front of the security hq actually run, or is it broken down and just for show? Are the guards a unified body or do the guards for different gates basically act indepentantly? Are the guards all armed, and if so, how well? If there was a riot would they have the ability to actually put it down? I get that this seems to take place in the UK, so the populace isn't very well armed, but there has been a breakdown of law and order for a while, craft firearms are likely proliferating even among the "law abiding" parts of the populace just to defend against all the dangers that nobody is around to protect them from.
Personally, given how much people prostitute themselves for cash, the setting seems pretty much in favor of allowing a landlord to kick a renter out with no questions asked, even to the level of Bailey from Degrees of Lewdity where rent is what he says it is. There wouldn't be a lot of 'town guard' either, given the fairly lawless state of the city it's pretty clear the only guards in the city are either guarding specific locations or keeping whatever is outside the city outside the city (Rumor at Haven mentioned savages with spears), so they wouldn't be inclined to step in on a personal dispute. Rack up enough debt and the landlord hires thugs to go after Sammy to rape her and steal all her money, so given that this is the person the government trusts with an important project i would say that kind of behavior is the norm rather than an exception: Nowhere in the game does anyone mention going to the police or similar authorities for anything.

I'd say the town guard exists mostly to enforce the rules from the government (just like in real life) with an added understanding that they lack the manpower to be everywhere so they allow some crime as long as it doesn't turn into too much of a headache for them. Not punishing rape actually works out well for them, given that a baby born from such an event winds up in a government-run orphanage, likely to end up a sustained influx of new recruits for the guards and government themselves over time in the long run. It certainly allows for a certain level of indoctrination, and if you've controlled their life since birth it would also be extremely unlikely they'd be spying on or plotting to overthrow you.

So yeah, my view of the setting is more bleak behind the thin veneer of 'let's try and pretend life is still relatively normal'. Would still like to explore outside of the city on a salvage run someday, but that would only be after the city has all its areas mapped out of course.
 
Feb 27, 2018
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Personally, given how much people prostitute themselves for cash, the setting seems pretty much in favor of allowing a landlord to kick a renter out with no questions asked
To me this also seems like the sort of setting where if you poison your landlord nobody will investigate it either. Lawlessness fortunately cuts both ways.
Rack up enough debt and the landlord hires thugs to go after Sammy
I think that's a likely outcome, but this isn't the modern day, so the thugs aren't going to have any backup except what they can hire. Not saying Sammy is a fighter, but she could make friends who could scare them off.
given that this is the person the government trusts with an important project
not the government, The Institute. We have no real inkling that the government even knows about Sammy. Also you seem to be overestimating the state capacity of the government. They don't even seem to have the ability to collect taxes.
Nowhere in the game does anyone mention going to the police or similar authorities for anything.
Except for in the park where they harass you sometimes and at the gate where if you try to prostitute Sammy she thinks it wouldn't be a good idea.
 
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Penitensary

Member
May 10, 2020
477
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To me this also seems like the sort of setting where if you poison your landlord nobody will investigate it either. Lawlessness fortunately cuts both ways.
Yup, which would explain why the landlord has muscle on the payroll.

I think that's a likely outcome, but this isn't the modern day, so the thugs aren't going to have any backup except what they can hire. Not saying Sammy is a fighter, but she could make friends who could scare them off.
Ehh... Debatable. The soccer boys may step in against school bullies, paid thugs that Sammy cannot fight off even at 100 Fitness may be a size too big. That's the kind of thing requiring weapons, and those aren't in the game.

not the government, The Institute. We have no real inkling that the government even knows about Sammy. Also you seem to be overestimating the state capacity of the government. They don't even seem to have the ability to collect taxes.
Yeah, the Institute runs the town as securely as White runs Haven, so they pretty much are the government. I'd be surprised if they answered to the government rather than the other way around, so when i say 'government' i meant the Institute rather than whatever puppet is in place.

Except for in the park where they harass you sometimes and at the gate where if you try to prostitute Sammy she thinks it wouldn't be a good idea.
Yeah, according to rumors overheard in Haven the guards at the gate tend to want freebies from the gamines, and the park is a fairly secluded part of town given that even virgin Sammy feels confident enough to change clothes or sleep in some bushes there. Aside from the nondescript alley and under the pier at the beach it's the only place she will go to sleep at outside and also the only outside location she will change clothes in. So both aren't really good places to work in, though for different reasons.
 
Feb 27, 2018
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Yup, which would explain why the landlord has muscle on the payroll.
Ehh... Debatable. The soccer boys may step in against school bullies, paid thugs that Sammy cannot fight off even at 100 Fitness may be a size too big. That's the kind of thing requiring weapons, and those aren't in the game.
Yeah, the Institute runs the town as securely as White runs Haven, so they pretty much are the government. I'd be surprised if they answered to the government rather than the other way around, so when i say 'government' i meant the Institute rather than whatever puppet is in place.
Yeah, according to rumors overheard in Haven the guards at the gate tend to want freebies from the gamines, and the park is a fairly secluded part of town given that even virgin Sammy feels confident enough to change clothes or sleep in some bushes there. Aside from the nondescript alley and under the pier at the beach it's the only place she will go to sleep at outside and also the only outside location she will change clothes in. So both aren't really good places to work in, though for different reasons.
The landlord doesn't seem to have much muscle on payroll at any given time, he doesn't have guards in his office for instance. I suspect he might hire goons on an as needed basis, but they aren't on retainer or anything. In terms of making friends who could help her against her landlord, I was thinking more along the lines of the dominatrix gate guard might be able to get some off duty gate guards to help, or the group of scavengers that Jaylee is a part of, since they go out into the wider world they probably are fairly tasty in a scrap. Ultimately the resolution would probably just be that the goons decide that harassing you isn't worth the potential trouble and go back to the landlord let him know that what he asked for wasn't worth the money he was paying them. After that he'd get a reputation among the sorts who do that sort of work that he isn't an employer who can be trusted to give the full details on a job.
 

Sam_Tail

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Game Developer
Aug 31, 2020
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Some of the later Oskar stories will explain this more. But Oskar has probably taken control over the properties after his dad died. Him being a young, arrogant ass leads him to going on a little bit of a power trip and thinking himself a bit of a gangster. He has muscle helping him out at the casino and other areas, but no need to have them by his side 24/7 because, well it's not America.

He maintained control over the apartment complex and casino because there is no reason to take it from him. Unless problems are being caused that require security to step in, then they will just let things carry on as normal. And as far as security are concerned, he provides a service to the town, much like the pub does, by keeping people contained and entertained. When people are drinking or gambling then they aren't out causing troubles for security.

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Security's only real job is to maintain security of the city and keep the delivery trucks/trains running. They will only really deal with things inside the city if bodies start turning up. And it's why most of the large criminal elements in the city are unwilling to make bodies. If they end up causing too much trouble for security, then security will just remove them/kill them and let others take over. No arrests or court trials. Just remove the problem and let someone more agreeable do the job instead. It's also why Big Al gets the run of Haven since he somewhat looks after the dregs of society and keeps them in line.

In an extreme example, what would happen for if your landlord died or people just stopped paying him. Would the guards actually step in? Do they have any sort of courts to handle disputes, and since they probably don't, do the guards have discretion to decide who is in the right in a dispute?
Whoever hold more value to the city would win in a dispute.

How many guards are there for that matter? Does the Boxer out in front of the security hq actually run, or is it broken down and just for show?
The checkpoint does work and is why security moved from the police station to the building they are currently in (which is an sold storage locker building)

Are the guards a unified body or do the guards for different gates basically act indepentantly? Are the guards all armed, and if so, how well? If there was a riot would they have the ability to actually put it down?
Part of a story I have planned. But there are 2 major factions of Security. The checkpoint faction and the train station faction (the two people you met during the storyline are actually at odds with each other). Checkpoint faction are remnants of the old police force combined with fire dept as well as civilian recruits. The train station faction are mostly made up of people from the local military base. Both have different ideas on how to run things.

As for armed. I think I explained that any kind of firearm would be more valuable sold to security than used in crime. So no chance of anything like that. Knives and the like are the only real threat. No chance of an armed mob forming because security are smart enough not to kick those beehives.
 
Feb 27, 2018
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As for armed. I think I explained that any kind of firearm would be more valuable sold to security than used in crime. So no chance of anything like that. Knives and the like are the only real threat. No chance of an armed mob forming because security are smart enough not to kick those beehives.
I don't think that makes economic sense, security wouldn't have any interest in buying up shitty craft firearms for their own use. If security buys them as part of some sort of program to keep them off the streets, that'd quickly devolve into people mass manufacturing pipe guns and selling them to security for a profit like at so called "gun buybacks" in the US (they're not actually buybacks because the people buying them never owned them, so I have no idea why they're called that). I'm an American, so my perspective on this is a bit different than yours probably is, but simple firearms are so easy to manufacture that I can't see any way they wouldn't proliferate after a breakdown in law and order. Single-shot weapons with unrifled barrels would be the bulk of guns on the market, with maybe some Luty smgs being prestige items, gangs outside the city would probably have workshops to manufacture things like AKs. Them not being used in crime inside the city could be excused as being because ammunition would be in short supply and of generally poor quality, plus gunfire would make security show up armed for bear, and quickly too. Guns only became the weapon of choice for street crime in the US after switchblades got banned. I assumed security wasn't going around kicking beehives, but if they step in on gang disputes when the bodies start piling up, they might do so accidentally, hence why I asked if their armored vehicle was in working order, since it represents the sort of force multiplier that would let security be a major player even without large numbers.
The checkpoint does work and is why security moved from the police station to the building they are currently in (which is an sold storage locker building)
Sorry, I realize now that I phrased that a bit confusingly if you aren't the kind of weirdo who knows the names of armored vehicles off the top of their head. I was asking if the Boxer armored vehicle out front of the checkpoint is in working order. Those things aren't cheap or easy to keep maintained. Even if they do keep it running (and there are degrees of that, they might need a few hours to make it able to drive), I would think that with the state of things that the more finnicky stuff is unlikely to still working. The smoke projectors and fire supression systems for instance are probably long past the point where they needed to be replaced, and replacements probably aren't available anymore. That sort of thing could be used as a further excuse as to why security doesn't show up to handle things, they are better equipped than everyone else, but they have dwindling supplies of "the good stuff" and don't want to waste it.
 

Sam_Tail

Member
Game Developer
Aug 31, 2020
486
2,552
I don't think that makes economic sense, security wouldn't have any interest in buying up shitty craft firearms for their own use. If security buys them as part of some sort of program to keep them off the streets, that'd quickly devolve into people mass manufacturing pipe guns and selling them to security for a profit like at so called "gun buybacks" in the US (they're not actually buybacks because the people buying them never owned them, so I have no idea why they're called that). I'm an American, so my perspective on this is a bit different than yours probably is, but simple firearms are so easy to manufacture that I can't see any way they wouldn't proliferate after a breakdown in law and order. Single-shot weapons with unrifled barrels would be the bulk of guns on the market, with maybe some Luty smgs being prestige items, gangs outside the city would probably have workshops to manufacture things like AKs. Them not being used in crime inside the city could be excused as being because ammunition would be in short supply and of generally poor quality, plus gunfire would make security show up armed for bear, and quickly too. Guns only became the weapon of choice for street crime in the US after switchblades got banned. I assumed security wasn't going around kicking beehives, but if they step in on gang disputes when the bodies start piling up, they might do so accidentally, hence why I asked if their armored vehicle was in working order, since it represents the sort of force multiplier that would let security be a major player even without large numbers.
Anyone with the equipment and skill to machine some kind of firearm would again be better suited working with the government and getting a job. Even if you did have a gun, makeshift or industrial, what would you do with it? Rob a few whores, drug dealers or shops then end up attracting the attention of the whole security force who will then kill you.

Almost anything someone would do with a firearm would bring way more attention than is worth it. So much so that you couldn't even work with other criminals because they wouldn't want the attention. Again it's not the US where you have more guns than people or large stockpiles hidden in a basement.

Sorry, I realize now that I phrased that a bit confusingly if you aren't the kind of weirdo who knows the names of armored vehicles off the top of their head. I was asking if the Boxer armored vehicle out front of the checkpoint is in working order. Those things aren't cheap or easy to keep maintained. Even if they do keep it running (and there are degrees of that, they might need a few hours to make it able to drive), I would think that with the state of things that the more finnicky stuff is unlikely to still working. The smoke projectors and fire supression systems for instance are probably long past the point where they needed to be replaced, and replacements probably aren't available anymore. That sort of thing could be used as a further excuse as to why security doesn't show up to handle things, they are better equipped than everyone else, but they have dwindling supplies of "the good stuff" and don't want to waste it.
Almost certainly non functional and probably just serves as a giant brick. And is something I will get rid of if I update the art for that area.
 
Feb 27, 2018
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Anyone with the equipment and skill to machine some kind of firearm would again be better suited working with the government and getting a job. Even if you did have a gun, makeshift or industrial, what would you do with it? Rob a few whores, drug dealers or shops then end up attracting the attention of the whole security force who will then kill you.

Almost anything someone would do with a firearm would bring way more attention than is worth it. So much so that you couldn't even work with other criminals because they wouldn't want the attention. Again it's not the US where you have more guns than people or large stockpiles hidden in a basement.
This is a functional firearm:
View attachment 14067709_618230478346447_4354649550812309891_n.webp
It's just a pipe with a cap on one end with a nail in it. It'd work fine without the wooden stock, it's probably just there as a place to write the serial number which is required by law.

That is the sort of thing I'm imagining for the most part, the sort of thing that requires zero skill or tooling. They'd be cheap to make and acquire even by the standards of the setting. Ammunition is a little harder to make, but it's still pretty easy. People wouldn't use them much in crime, both for reasons I've already given and also just because they're crap, but they're so cheap that people would probably buy/make them just to have them, since it's not like the guards have the manpower to search houses just on suspicion, especially since if the person has a gun, they're going to want to bring a decent amount of force and be really careful about it, so there is no real risk in just owning one. The truckers could reasonably be expected to carry guns too, since outside of town I'd expect there to be literal highwaymen. As for what you'd do with one, you'd kill a person with it then run like hell and probably ditch it. It's not a practical weapon for every day use, but if you need someone dead, a slambang like that makes it a hell of a lot easier than trying to stab/bludgeon a person to death. Making firearms doesn't actually require any specialized tooling or machining, you can build a Luty sub machine gun entirely from parts that any hardware store would carry with very nearly no modification. Things like pipes, washers, screws, and springs, nothing specialized at all. People who do have the tooling to make good firearms probably would do legitimate business too, but making some firearms on the side might help them make ends meet and ultimately wouldn't be that risky, since the guards would both probably rely on them too for all sorts of things, and because the guards don't really have much capacity to investigate things.

Almost certainly non functional and probably just serves as a giant brick. And is something I will get rid of if I update the art for that area.
It'd make sense for them to have even a non functional armored vehicle as a "gate guardian" since those things are heavy enough to stop someone trying to do a ram raid even in a big truck. They use old tanks and stuff like that outside of military bases in real life all the time. In most places it's just symbolic, but they do have a purpose, essentially as a giant brick amusingly enough. So if you want an excuse for it so you don't need to remake the art, that's a decent one.
 

ChesseKun

Active Member
Nov 1, 2019
606
669
This is a functional firearm:
View attachment 3580221
It's just a pipe with a cap on one end with a nail in it. It'd work fine without the wooden stock, it's probably just there as a place to write the serial number which is required by law.

That is the sort of thing I'm imagining for the most part, the sort of thing that requires zero skill or tooling. They'd be cheap to make and acquire even by the standards of the setting. Ammunition is a little harder to make, but it's still pretty easy. People wouldn't use them much in crime, both for reasons I've already given and also just because they're crap, but they're so cheap that people would probably buy/make them just to have them, since it's not like the guards have the manpower to search houses just on suspicion, especially since if the person has a gun, they're going to want to bring a decent amount of force and be really careful about it, so there is no real risk in just owning one. The truckers could reasonably be expected to carry guns too, since outside of town I'd expect there to be literal highwaymen. As for what you'd do with one, you'd kill a person with it then run like hell and probably ditch it. It's not a practical weapon for every day use, but if you need someone dead, a slambang like that makes it a hell of a lot easier than trying to stab/bludgeon a person to death. Making firearms doesn't actually require any specialized tooling or machining, you can build a Luty sub machine gun entirely from parts that any hardware store would carry with very nearly no modification. Things like pipes, washers, screws, and springs, nothing specialized at all. People who do have the tooling to make good firearms probably would do legitimate business too, but making some firearms on the side might help them make ends meet and ultimately wouldn't be that risky, since the guards would both probably rely on them too for all sorts of things, and because the guards don't really have much capacity to investigate things.


It'd make sense for them to have even a non functional armored vehicle as a "gate guardian" since those things are heavy enough to stop someone trying to do a ram raid even in a big truck. They use old tanks and stuff like that outside of military bases in real life all the time. In most places it's just symbolic, but they do have a purpose, essentially as a giant brick amusingly enough. So if you want an excuse for it so you don't need to remake the art, that's a decent one.
Do you think it would still be as easy to make ammo in a postapocalyptic world with probably extensive supply issues? You would probably even have to make your own gunpowder the charcoal could be relatively easy to get but the sulfur and especially the potassium nitrate could be a different story.
And while pipe weapons could totally be a thing as you have already mentioned they are kind of shit. Would it really be with the trouble? also taking into account that the ones in charge don't have to follow the same rules as current governments.
Wait a minute this gives me an idea for Sammy's next big Fixer gig have her infiltrate and help take out some gun runners.
 
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Feb 27, 2018
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Do you think it would still be as easy to make ammo in a postapocalyptic world with probably extensive supply issues? You would probably even have to make your own gunpowder the charcoal could be relatively easy to get but the sulfur and especially the potassium nitrate could be a different story.
Gunpowder, especially black powder, is actually really easy, it's the primers that are the hard part. People in the middle ages actually got some of the sulfur from urine, if I remember correctly urine of monks and holy men was believed to make the best gunpowder. You're right that saltpetre is a little more complicated , manure isn't exactly hard to come by after all. Smokeless powder would be harder, but anyone with a highschool chemistry education and their old textbooks and the resources available to a modest gang could manufacture it in quantities that would cover their needs.
Primers are a bit harder, but things like survival matches would be a good source of the components needed to make them, and other than that there are primitive methods to make them, they're just labor intensive.
Brass would probably be melted down salvaged stuff, it's a very workable metal, a brass doorknob or fixture could provide you with enough brass for a surprising amount of ammunition.
Overall I think given the constraints of the setting ammo would be expensive by modern American pricing, but not prohibitively so.
And while pipe weapons could totally be a thing as you have already mentioned they are kind of shit. Would it really be with the trouble?
Yes, they aren't much trouble at all. A shotgun made of a pipe, an cap, and a nail doesn't need to be kept in one piece, until you need it you can keep it as separate parts around your home, slambangs aren't called "four winds" shotguns for nothing, they can be scattered to the four winds at a moment's notice. Given the lack of risk to owners, we should examine the risks to manufacturers and dealers, but for that we'd need to know more about the state of the world outside the city and we'd need more details on the situation in terms of exactly how the guards operate and what the resource situation is like. I think Sam_Tail doesn't want to have to account for guns whenever he writes a story, and that makes a lot of sense given what I think his intentions are for the story and setting, but I think he also wants the setting to be as realistic/plausible as possible. I'm trying to explain why guns would be available, but I'm also trying to help him give excuses as to why they'd basically never used, even as a threat. I think that he could also use the possibility of armed opposition as a narrative excuse for why certain "obvious" solutions aren't taken. I am not knocking the game, I really enjoy it and think it's really well made and well thought out, I just hope that my knowledge and perspective might help Sam_Tail make a better game and not rely on misunderstandings or lack of knowledge (for instance GPS would probably still work in the setting, I think a better excuse would be that the US military panicked during some crisis and made it so civilians can't access the GPS network anymore, since that is something they probably have the ability to do.)
the ones in charge don't have to follow the same rules as current governments.
The modern UK policing apparatus relies heavily on the horrifying surveillance state the UK is these days. The current "government" as it is doesn't have the ability to do that sort of thing, so while they might make some draconian examples, that is unlikely to meaningfully impact firearms production. They don't even have computerized records anymore, much less a surveilance camera on every street corner. Keeping track of who is acquiring more fertilizer than they need for their farm or whatever is basically impossible in the setting of the game. Also every single investigation would need to be conducted in force, since if it isn't the people doing the investigation will just be killed and the gun runners would relocate and come up with new cover before reinforcements arrive.
Wait a minute this gives me an idea for Sammy's next big Fixer gig have her infiltrate and help take out some gun runners.
Done well I think that could be really thrilling and fascinating and possibly extremely erotic, I know there are a lot of people who make KK art with chicks with guns in skimpy outfits, Sammy the "zako" could be hot as hell. Imagine Sammy infiltrating the bodyguards of "the twins" and all the bodyguards are bikini clad babes with Kalashnikovs (for my erotic preferences they'd carry AK-74s or krinks, I just think they're sexier than other AK variants) . I hope the twins are hot babes too. It'd be pretty dissapointing for me at least if the twins aren't hot identical twin girls. At least I think it'd be dissapointing, Sam_Tail has surprised me in the past by making me find things hot I didn't really think were that hot.
 
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souldead341

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Oct 16, 2017
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Gunpowder, especially black powder, is actually really easy, it's the primers that are the hard part. People in the middle ages actually got some of the sulfur from urine, if I remember correctly urine of monks and holy men was believed to make the best gunpowder. You're right that saltpetre is a little more complicated , manure isn't exactly hard to come by after all. Smokeless powder would be harder, but anyone with a highschool chemistry education and their old textbooks and the resources available to a modest gang could manufacture it in quantities that would cover their needs.
Primers are a bit harder, but things like survival matches would be a good source of the components needed to make them, and other than that there are primitive methods to make them, they're just labor intensive.
Brass would probably be melted down salvaged stuff, it's a very workable metal, a brass doorknob or fixture could provide you with enough brass for a surprising amount of ammunition.
Overall I think given the constraints of the setting ammo would be expensive by modern American pricing, but not prohibitively so.
Frankly, primers are also not necessary if you're going that far back technologically. The slow match was a cord treated to burn slowly using potassium nitrate (saltpeter) and a linen, hemp, or cotton cord. This is the "match" in a matchlock musket, though if there's a ready supply of something like pyrite or flint there are other options, like the wheellock (a spring loaded, spinning steel disk against pyrite) and various iterations of flintlocks (a piece of flint striking a steel surface). Going another way, something like an electric spark should be able to ignite the black powder, is a sparkplug or similar device could be made to work.

Obviously going back to a muzzle loading musket or rifle, as well as black powder brings about many issues as well. Hell, many modern gun designs would fail pretty quickly if black powder was used, since it leaves much more residue behind than modern smokeless powder. Though if a character wants a single shot (or few shots with multiple pistols) it would be a way to do it, like the liberator pistol the US Airforce dropped into France during WW2, it was meant for ambush to possibly get a better weapon.
 
Feb 27, 2018
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Frankly, primers are also not necessary if you're going that far back technologically. The slow match was a cord treated to burn slowly using potassium nitrate (saltpeter) and a linen, hemp, or cotton cord. This is the "match" in a matchlock musket, though if there's a ready supply of something like pyrite or flint there are other options, like the wheellock (a spring loaded, spinning steel disk against pyrite) and various iterations of flintlocks (a piece of flint striking a steel surface). Going another way, something like an electric spark should be able to ignite the black powder, is a sparkplug or similar device could be made to work.

Obviously going back to a muzzle loading musket or rifle, as well as black powder brings about many issues as well. Hell, many modern gun designs would fail pretty quickly if black powder was used, since it leaves much more residue behind than modern smokeless powder. Though if a character wants a single shot (or few shots with multiple pistols) it would be a way to do it, like the liberator pistol the US Airforce dropped into France during WW2, it was meant for ambush to possibly get a better weapon.
oops, I hadn't refreshed the page before editing my post, fortunately I didn't change anything that you were replying to. You're right, but I'm just trying to keep the number of changes being discussed to a minimum for the simplicity of communicating the issue of controlling firearms in the context of the setting of the game to people who don't understand just how amazingly simple the devices are.
 
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