- Aug 8, 2017
- 519
- 759
Not at all. Just a note that I won't be going into as much detail because I just spent a day making the SLDR's cheat injector for RLE for the Prime mod and that took more time than I'd liked. So I want to spend more time working on my side project.So if you don't mind I'm moving our conversation here, as it makes more sense for me
(just as a reference, we started our conversation in RLE thread, so that's what I'm answering)
Agreed. This is part of what I meant when I said it's not focused.IMO the main loop, next to a setting, Is what both games have most in common. You can progress your relationships in similar fashion. With added story bitts, that (ideally) build on it and around it. And one other major difference on development side is that Oni have a strategy of adding girl one by one in somewhat complete fashion, TNH on the other hand has 3 girls in parallel and none is complete.
Correct. Because a story is a story. A game is a game. One is passive while the other is active. I can see they want to tell a story. Which, cool, good on them. But a story isn't a game. And, as such, a story, being passive, can't have a game play loop.But as I've written above in the story department, I would agree that it might not look like a game for example from Game Theory perspective. Story itself does not have its own loop.
Agreed. But this is a well traveled path. From the movie Memento to Suzumiya Haruhi to Live-A-Live to Earthbound/Mother. Each have their complex narrative structures. It's not easy, but it's also not hard if you have a good idea of what you want to do. i.e. a good focus.This. To a degree, they are antagonistic. So it is not an easy task to harmonize them. It is possible, that's what great RPGs do, which I see a one (or maybe the) most complex narrative structures in our culture.
Right. But notice how that still is built around the primary gameplay loop.And he puts friction points, obstacles that you need to overcome, building both anticipation and sense of agency. He can actually suggest goals to you, even by at the beginning saying you can't do it. For example, girls leaving your cum when they go in public wasn't something I thought of before playing RLE. But game suggested it to me, and I thought "kinky! I like It! I want it!".
It's my view that just because it's porn, doesn't mean its less artistic. There are cultures that, prior to colonization and/or globalization, that saw, what we considered porn, to be just as foundational to literature as romances or comedies or tragedies. It's just that sex, much like fart jokes, can be easily exploited for an instant reaction. But also like fart jokes, it can easily be overused. Like, in the US, nudity is considered taboo and scandalous. But when you've taken a ton of figure drawing classes, a nude body invoke less a reaction than seeing that same person dressed in lingerie. (Speaking from experience. My favorite thing to draw was the human figure. There are days for me, when seeing someone nude is not that much different than seeing them dressed.)That's really cool. I'm from a moderate sized city in Poland, so not much of such opportunities here. Especially when I was younger and there was no YouTube, or even easy Internet access.
There was a time that I was actively trying to find some resources about how you're supposed to build stories, or even express why you find some good and other bad. Even tried Literary Theory Yale courses (on YT), but it was mostly waste of time, full of post-modern philosophy nonsense (and I'm one of the freaks that actually like philosophy). But you can find some very interesting things these days. I'll just mention Brandon Sanderson university lectures on writing. And, as much it feels weird to mention him on a porn related forum, Jordan Peterson is the psychologist (/philosopher) that is treating stories the most seriously.
Also, I would re-examine those "philosophy nonsense" if I were you. The problem with art and literary theory is that, for some reason, they all have a grain of truth but are almost, always, especially by academics, expressed really, REALLY badly. Again, going back to my personal experience, a lot of the scripts that I was reading when I was young pulled from A LOT of literary theory. And, again, this is for a cartoon (granted, a cartoon for adults that's renounced for it's writing...). But every one of those theories were proven correct. They (the writers of the show) got the emotional reactions they were looking for. This show has won Emmy's, multiple, as a result. Often, the deeper you get into writing stories or making art, you'll begin to uncover for yourself these exact same theories as many before you, as I have and many after us will. And, sometimes, despite academia's best efforts, there's no substitute for practical, personal experience. Sometimes, you can only truly learn these theories once you have gone through the gauntlet yourself.
I actually wrote something tangentially addressing this in another thread.
https://f95zone.to/threads/is-anyone-else-tired-of-sexy-women-in-games.135705/#post-12779353
Particularly about an art theory I know everyone rolls their eyes at (even I did at some point), the "Everything's beautiful" or "There's beauty in everything."
But also, Jordan Peterson? The guy that thinks ethnic studies (remainder, I'm Asian. Taiwanese to be exact) should be abolished? That guy that would say to my face that I'm less of a person than he is because he has awesome genes despite him literally having an autoimmune disease (a genetic disease, mind you)? The guy that thought an all beef diet was a good idea, despite what doctors said to him, and natural even though most of the population of humanity in history didn't have persistent and reliable access to cow meat? The guy that thought China was setting up milking machines for men because he saw it on a Chinese porn and didn't realize it was porn? That Jordan Peterson?
You'll have to excuse me if I don't listen to the guy that thinks the recorded history of my culture is somehow less authoritative than second hand stories passed down by a bunch of people and then edited and compiled into a book by a committee and then mistranslated again and again that he thinks is holy.