The story or the adventure.

[Deleted member 54063]

I got into erotic VNs via a back and forth with a friend where we would share interesting erotic stories we found on various sites. With both of us being gamers, I guess it was inevitable that she eventually recommended a VN for me to play. I was quickly hooked.

I only recently revised the story world, and found myself enjoying them a whole lot more than the VNs. Or at least, I found them much hotter

I've been struggling, trying to figure it out why simple text stories are doing more. And why VNs haven't been able to achieve the same effect.

Is it because...

... stories are more immersive?
Sure, we're only looking at text, but we're not being distracted by the choices, implications, or divergent stories lines (and what we might be missing).

... stories are more complete?
While yes, a lot of them are. They're more commonly only encompassing one or two brief scenarios. Whereas VNs are can be vast adventures with a lot more content.

... the MC/Storyteller is relatable/acceptable in stories?
Who has ever entered their own name in a VN, then seen the MC or heard their inner monologue and though, "Yup, that's totally me"!? In most stories there is no dialogue, just narration of events, that may be easier to accept.

... VNs are trying to do too much?
Don't get me wrong, I love VNs, and there are some oddities that I've really loved - but they tend to be the ones that keep things simple, and just tell the story.

That feeling of being totally engrossed in a story is something I would love to see in a VN - but rarely have gotten close to.

I would love to hear peoples opinions on this, and explore the topic is possible. Whether you've read any erotic stories or not, a writer of a VN/Story or not.

Thanks

 

[Fasder]

So I've read and listened to erotica quite a lot. The problem is that it's usually for women, and if you want something more than just "Candy gets fucked in the ass" then you more or less need to turn to the amateur scene.
This is both good and bad, there are a few diamonds in the rough out there, but there's a whole lot of bad too.

What I've found is that I tend to get distracted when I'm just reading. This is also true for anything else, be it an article or the latest and greatest new novel. Very few things can keep me reading for extended periods of time, luckily there are audiobooks, or /r/gonewildaudio for the more spicy stuff.

I tend to like where there is gameplay paired with an arching story, something to work toward, rather than get this stat up to keep people happy, or get money so your game doesn't end because you need to keep the people happy.
So what I've made is something where you actually play to get somewhere. Some people don't like the grind but that's just an opinion, we all have them, and sometimes they don't align.
But in the grand scheme of things this is probably the best approach in my eyes, you can get away with less grind but in my case that wouldn't fit very well with the story and theme of the game.
Keeping someone engaged for 200k words isn't easy, hell keeping someone interested in a few thousand words isn't easy.

Personally, I don't enjoy VN's all that much, there are a couple I've played and liked but they are far and few in between. A good story though, is another matter, and as we all know, good stories comes in a lot of different shapes and sizes.

Sure, we're only looking at text, but we're not being distracted by the choices, implications, or divergent stories lines (and what we might be missing).

It's a different medium and on most accounts there aren't a whole lot of good storytellers out there. There's also the indie factor to consider. Having one person do everything is really difficult when it comes down to it, especially with non-linear stories. Early on I found myself being very unsure about how to respond on certain choices because they were often very unclear. Something like "hug her" turns into something closer to rape or something like that is not very uncommon, which often ends in a "game over". This is just not very good design in the grand scheme of things.
So in essence I sat there over analyzing and then not really caring once I realized that the impact was minimal or I got a game over.

While yes, a lot of them are. They're more commonly only encompassing one or two brief scenarios. Whereas VNs are can be vast adventures with a lot more content.

Novels will almost always have the upper hand in terms of how detailed your story is. But having pretty pictures to look at is a lot nicer, especially when it comes to erotic content.
Though I wouldn't be apposed to a good erotic story that is not a "my new coworker is a succubus and I find out magic is real and now we're going to build a harem".

Who has ever entered their own name in a VN, then seen the MC or heard their inner monologue and though, "Yup, that's totally me"!? In most stories there is no dialogue, just narration of events, that may be easier to accept.

The easy way of doing this is to just keep the MC very vague, no opinions, no interests (unless they are very common, like gaming) and let the player decide and write dialogue inline with the answer the played gives.
This is to keep immersion, but it also hurts the overall stories, it's hard to build a relationship when your freedom is limited. This is also connected to the indie factor where it would take waaaaay too much time to make something like multiple choices for everything and do it well.


Jeez I ramble sometimes, sorry for the wall of text and sorry if any of it is completely unrelated to what you're saying.

 

[HiEv]

I've been struggling, trying to figure it out why simple text stories are doing more. And why VNs haven't been able to achieve the same effect.

Is it because... ... stories are more immersive?
Sure, we're only looking at text, but we're not being distracted by the choices, implications, or divergent stories lines (and what we might be missing).

Well, yeah, I'd say it's because text stories are more immersive, but not for the reasons you give.

Text stories cause you to use your imagination to fill in details. This is why movies where the monster is barely seen are often scarier than the ones where it's out in the open.

For example, in a text story you might read something like this, "As you further explore the deserted old house, you enter what was once a bedroom. A slight draft from a broken window causes the cobwebs to flutter in the moonlight as you open the door. The wallpaper is peeling and dark patches on the ceiling hint that the roof has been leaking for some time. The room is sparsely furnished with a dresser, desk, and a bed. An old painting of a steamboat on the river at night hangs haphazardly on the wall above the bed. The bed itself still has sheets on it, their brown color disguising how rotten they have become, though it's obvious that the pillows have long ago succumbed to mold, adding to the pervasive smell of rot in the house. At the foot of the bed sits a large chest, oddly free of dust."

Now, you have a picture of this room in your mind right?

So how does that stack up against the below image that you might see in a visual novel?

Spoiler

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That image is probably close to the visual novel equivalent of that text. But which is scarier and more immersive? Think about all of the details you filled in with your imagination, which weren't in the text. With that image though, most of those details were removed, thus it's likely less dramatic than you pictured.

I'm not saying that all pictures work against immersion, but what our minds conjure up is usually better than most VNs can afford to produce.

Also, text often lets us evoke an atmosphere in ways that are difficult in visual novels. Visual novels tend to shy away from "walls of text" because so many people complain about them. But with text adventures, that's what people are prepared for, so they can get away with being more descriptive, which also helps with immersion.

Anyways, those aren't the only reasons, but I'd say they're the main reasons why text adventures tend to be more immersive than visual novels.

 

[The Architect]

I believe it also has a lot to do with the correct use of the medium.

In terms of narrative language, VNs should be somehow similar to cinema (it has a VISUAL in the name, after all). A good VN should use the same tools used in movies to convey information: the right use of colors, costumes, camera angles, framing, lightning, sound track, raccords, visual symbolism, etc... It should not have simply 'beautiful' art, but meaningful art. Text based games are, of course, heavily based on literature narrative language... That said, I believe that:

- Most people learn about literature narrative during their life, but very few learn about visual narrative tools. I notice that a lot of VN authors 'write' the script and then drop art over the words. A lot of times you even read text descriptions of what you see (the most basic mistake in visual narrative). Just mastering the technical use of a renderer doesn't mean one can produce the best VN.

- VNs are harder to produce. If writer and visual artist are not the same person, they must have a very good communication. Modeling, posing, rendering, drawing takes A LOT more time than writing good text descriptions. Sometimes you have to change something in your story due to time budget. What you see most of the times are generic character sprites over generic backgrounds, because it's the cheaper way to advance the plot. This is the main problem of most VNs.

In the end, I believe this is the same argument 'Lord of the Rings books/movies are better than the movies/books'. There is no better/worst. Books and movies are just different, and both can be awesome when well made. The same applies to VNs and text based games.

 

[Evic]

I think the perspective is off in many VNs while most written stories don't suffer from the same problem because there is no need to make it play like a game. For example a story in the first person perspective is like seeing the world through somebody else's eyes but in a VN many of them try to put you into the story rather than just letting you guide the character, acting as their subconscious in a way.

I've been trying to make sure that when I present options to the player they're worded in a way that makes those choices part of the story rather than just a button to click. For example instead of a simple choice like "go upstairs" or "kiss her" the choice becomes an extension of the dialog such as, "I know I shouldn't do this even though she's been flirting with me all night. I really need to get some sleep, tomorrow is going to be a long day. Oh what the hell, you only live once right. Ok, I can do this. (Kiss Her)" That way even the choice is used to help emphasize what the character thinks and feels, not what the player thinks and feels. For me that makes it feel more like you're influencing the story and not just clicking buttons to make numbers change to see different pictures. You can also use that to hint at the possible outcome of the choice, as Fasder pointed out, to avoid that wrong answer = game over feeling that so many VNs suffer from.