Thinking through a mind control "system" for a game

[megaplayboy10k]

I enjoy the mind control fetish/kink, but it's often clumsily portrayed in both porn and in h games. Either characters behave robotically while controlled, or there's otherwise a lack of subtlety in the control. Sometimes the opposite is true, and it takes a level of "grinding" to achieve any meaningful effect. So I've been mulling over creating a mind control system implementable in some future game project. Basically, I tried to break down aspects of control into several categories:
1. Individual actions
2. Behaviors/Behavior patterns
3. Memories
4. Emotions
5. Thoughts
6. Beliefs

A 7th category would essentially be the synthesis of these types of control, effectively conditioning or "reprogramming" someone across the board. There would be different "powers" under each category(say, 3 to 6 per category) and a few levels of skill with each power(with higher levels permitting broader use of the power). As conceived now, it's probably overcomplicated, but I did want a system more sophisticated than what's portrayed in most games.

 

[prettystupid]

The biggest issue you're going to have is content generation. Mind control allows for so many story possibilities that the player often feels constricted when games simply can't fulfill them all.

I would simplify your categories into three:

1. Memories
2. Beliefs
3. Personality

or something to that effect, I just came up with those off the top of my head. There three choices of two of those for synthesis and one option for them all to also total seven. That still might be too complicated.

The usefulness of this system depends on what kind of game you're making, I think. A linear, story based one wouldn't need these in the forefront as much, maybe just as an internal/story script tool. A more open game might benefit from implementing this kind of categorization directly into gameplay, but it'd be really difficult to add enough content to account for all the possible interplay between categories.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

I think it probably makes sense to just narrow things down to a shorter single list of abilities, maybe with enhancement of each with increased use. So you start with, say, the ability to "nudge" people to do minor things, like unbuttoning a blouse, unlocking doors, etc. Then you can make people forget things, or remember things differently then they actually happened. Next you can change their moods--happy, sad, horny, etc. Maybe you can then start making "suggestions" that alter their beliefs and behaviors. Or alter their perceptions, so you look more attractive, or they don't notice you touching them more intimately. Sensing and implanting thoughts might be another ability. A minor telekinetic ability to move small things, unlock doors and induce physical pleasure might fill out the list, and then the final ability might lead to complete "mastery" of another. So that would be 7 abilities, all of which could be "leveled up".
Not all of them might be usable in every situation, but rather as the plot makes possible.

 

[Ataios]

I can enjoy mind control in porn games to a certain extent, but I think the protagonist should better not know the dominate person spell from Dungeons and Dragons, so the say. Meaning, the MC should not be able to take total control. If the MC can just command a woman to lay down and spread her legs, she basically reduced to a sex bot and therefore rather boring.

Personally I think the most appealing form of mind control for a porn game would involve controlling sexual desire but NOT cognitive thought. Meaning the MC can form any sort of sexual desire in any character but not affect her ability to think, her memories or her believes. The character affected in that way doesn't know where her new desire comes from and will most likely face a lot of inner dilemma.

Imagine a milf around 40 living a happy life with her husband. Her marriage is based on equality and mutual trust, she is proud of her two kids who just started successful careers and she is on good term with all the neighbors. She never had any desire to cheat on her husband nor sexual feelings for a woman. But suddenly she feels the burning desire to submit to that mysterious woman she just met at work or who just moved to the neighborhood. She has no idea where this desire comes from and she still loves her husband and therefore tries to resist the control exerted by the other woman as hard as she can.

For the player the challenge would be to catch the victim in moments of weakness, maybe by coming to her rescue at just the right moment, consoling her in a moment of sadness or exerting power in another form, such by becoming her boss.

So the core element would be: Leave the character intact but change her sexual desire. If you want to split it up or create some sort of skill tree, this could consist of:
- Add/remove sex addiction
- Change sexual orientation
- Change dominance, equality, or submissiveness
- Add/remove kink (BDSM, spanking, exhibitionism etc.)
- Add/remove jealousy

 

[megaplayboy10k]

I can enjoy mind control in porn games to a certain extent, but I think the protagonist should better not know the dominate person spell from Dungeons and Dragons, so the say. Meaning, the MC should not be able to take total control. If the MC can just command a woman to lay down and spread her legs, she basically reduced to a sex bot and therefore rather boring.

Personally I think the most appealing form of mind control for a porn game would involve controlling sexual desire but NOT cognitive thought. Meaning the MC can form any sort of sexual desire in any character but not affect her ability to think, her memories or her believes. The character affected in that way doesn't know where her new desire comes from and will most likely face a lot of inner dilemma.

Imagine a milf around 40 living a happy life with her husband. Her marriage is based on equality and mutual trust, she is proud of her two kids who just started successful careers and she is on good term with all the neighbors. She never had any desire to cheat on her husband nor sexual feelings for a woman. But suddenly she feels the burning desire to submit to that mysterious woman she just met at work or who just moved to the neighborhood. She has no idea where this desire comes from and she still loves her husband and therefore tries to resist the control exerted by the other woman as hard as she can.

For the player the challenge would be to catch the victim in moments of weakness, maybe by coming to her rescue at just the right moment, consoling her in a moment of sadness or exerting power in another form, such by becoming her boss.

So the core element would be: Leave the character intact but change her sexual desire. If you want to split it up or create some sort of skill tree, this could consist of:
- Add/remove sex addiction
- Change sexual orientation
- Change dominance, equality, or submissiveness
- Add/remove kink (BDSM, spanking, exhibitionism etc.)
- Add/remove jealousy

I do agree about not making the subject behave robotically. Making alterations to a character's personality is an appealing kink to some, though, so I'm not sure I'd rule it out as an option.

 

[RogueKnightUK]

Have you done any research into the closest real-world learnings on the topic - i.e. conditioning and suggestion?

If not, I'd genuinely suggest that as the place to start. It helps underline how the brain actually responds to external stimuli and 'reprogramming', what the limitations are, and so gives an excellent foundation to ask better "What if..." questions of yourself when playing with ideas.

For example, if you were to study suggestion as it is commonly used for stage hypnosis, you'd learn that a given hypnotist, however skilled, can only get even modest instant results with about 25% of any sample of people. You'd learn that expectation and peer pressure actually play an important part, where many of those hypnotized to do stupid stunts on stage claim afterwards that they were not actually 'hypnotized' but simply felt it would be fun to play along (but that this is often actually much as suggestion works anyway - your brain will rationalise why you went along with it, and the only times you 'forget' what happens is if it is one of the suggestions given, and you agree to it).

When you get into the more fantastical forms of mind control, where rather than give them information and they 'suggest' they forget where they learned it you are telepathically implanting alient thoughts directly into the mind, you need to either go full fantasy where 'it just works, don't ask how', or you need to consider the extraordinary stress this would put on sanity - you've basically given them a full-blown schism as extreme as the manifestation of split personality/paranoid schizophrenia

 

[megaplayboy10k]

Have you done any research into the closest real-world learnings on the topic - i.e. conditioning and suggestion?

If not, I'd genuinely suggest that as the place to start. It helps underline how the brain actually responds to external stimuli and 'reprogramming', what the limitations are, and so gives an excellent foundation to ask better "What if..." questions of yourself when playing with ideas.

For example, if you were to study suggestion as it is commonly used for stage hypnosis, you'd learn that a given hypnotist, however skilled, can only get even modest instant results with about 25% of any sample of people. You'd learn that expectation and peer pressure actually play an important part, where many of those hypnotized to do stupid stunts on stage claim afterwards that they were not actually 'hypnotized' but simply felt it would be fun to play along (but that this is often actually much as suggestion works anyway - your brain will rationalise why you went along with it, and the only times you 'forget' what happens is if it is one of the suggestions given, and you agree to it).

When you get into the more fantastical forms of mind control, where rather than give them information and they 'suggest' they forget where they learned it you are telepathically implanting alient thoughts directly into the mind, you need to either go full fantasy where 'it just works, don't ask how', or you need to consider the extraordinary stress this would put on sanity - you've basically given them a full-blown schism as extreme as the manifestation of split personality/paranoid schizophrenia

One idea I had is that the subjects "back fill" a rationalization after being compelled to do something. In the alternative, the controller would have to "layer" suggestions incrementally, in order to get a subject from point A to point Z. "He's not bad looking" to "You wouldn't mind giving him your phone number" to "You should wear something sexy on the first date to make a good impression"....all the way to "You've never tried something like that before, but it sounds really exciting and sexy".

My conception is more on the lines of telepathic mind control ala comic book superheroes like Professor X or Emma Frost and whatnot. Hypnosis is not really that appealing as a mechanism for me, precisely because it doesn't work that way IRL.

 

[Ataios]

I do agree about not making the subject behave robotically. Making alterations to a character's personality is an appealing kink to some, though, so I'm not sure I'd rule it out as an option.

I think, it would change the victim's personality, but not wipe it out. A changed sexual orientation is severe change to a character's personalty, e.g., as is the desire to cheat or the loss of jealousy. The character would still know who she is and try to keep her life as normal as possible for as long as possible. The personality would change after all, though not on a cognitive level. In my example she would basically have the desires of a lesbian sex slave but the mind of a straight happily married woman. The personality could change more drastically though, once a character gives in to her new desires. In my example above, e.g. the sorceress may invite her victim and manage to seduce her. The victim's husband gets to know and divorces her, her kids don't talk to her any more - an short words: She has nothing more to lose. In that case, the victim will more likely fully give in to her new urges, maybe as far as living as 24/7 sex slave from now on (though she will still know that she was loving wife and mother last month).

 

[megaplayboy10k]

I think, it would change the victim's personality, but not wipe it out. A changed sexual orientation is severe change to a character's personalty, e.g., as is the desire to cheat or the loss of jealousy. The character would still know who she is and try to keep her life as normal as possible for as long as possible. The personality would change after all, though not on a cognitive level. In my example she would basically have the desires of a lesbian sex slave but the mind of a straight happily married woman. The personality could change more drastically though, once a character gives in to her new desires. In my example above, e.g. the sorceress may invite her victim and manage to seduce her. The victim's husband gets to know and divorces her, her kids don't talk to her any more - an short words: She has nothing more to lose. In that case, the victim will more likely fully give in to her new urges, maybe as far as living as 24/7 sex slave from now on (though she will still know that she was loving wife and mother last month).

A real world example would be the longterm personality changes wrought by drug addiction, joining a cult, etc.

 

[Deleted member 229118]

I personaly enjoy it when charater move roboticly as it give's me the feeling i am stealing control of there body while there mind is somewhere else.

My personal problem with most mind control games is that your only option is to turn them into sluts.
Gets boring very quickly.
Mind control should be about control.
For example in superpowered i can accauly make them wear more clothing.
That is so rare it stands out.

If it was up two me i would go one of two route's:
1: Subconscious control only.
Basicly you cant control the waking mind only when there under(like sleep walking)
The challange would be mostly around avoid leaving evidence of your deeds and having to prevent people from discovering you control them when there sleeping.(aka when you whore out a woman at night you need to make sure her husband doesnt find out)

2: Slow alteration of mindset:
Using a combination of hyposis too implant the suggestion.
Drug's to lower the resistant to the change.
And sublimital just out of the edge of hearing recordings to contious reforce your implanted suggestions.
You would slowly recondition the target.
Relying on your skil in manipulation to twist there logic and reasoning into something more pleasent for you.
For example: Suggesting to your wife that she love's you and want to indugle your hyposis fetish is alot easier then convincing your boss to give you a raise or not asking why so many drug's go missing from your job.

Basicly i suggest a limet to work around but if you can find a work around control shoud eventualy be total.

For example:
A time limet for how long you can keep people under.
Setting up events in order to shatter there believe incest is wrong before you can push them into an incestious relationship.

Mind control is about power over somebody else.
That is what is missing in most mind control games.
You dont have power.
You just turn them into sluts.
/yawn.

EDIT:
An other system is free will vs control.
Where the more control you have over a person the less free will they have.
The less free will they have the less they can take care of themself.
For example someone with 0 free will wont do anything unless directly order.
You cant give it any orders it cant directly carry out because it cant think at all.
Someone with low free will would be able to be programmed.
Stuff like: Take a shower at 11:00, Stop showering at 11:30.
They would carry out the commands to the letter but wont be able to deal with anything that falls outside there programming.
Cant take a shower?
Door is locked?
They will just stand there dumbfounded until there next programming steps in.
This will require the player to pretty much writte very complex orders trying to predict all things that can go wrong and need to be programmed in.
The higher the free will the less you can simply order them to do something.
Like someone with 80% free will can only be suggest things they wont find moraly offensive.
Where someone at 50% will carry out any order that doesnt go against there core believe's.

It would be up to the player to balance there need for control with there need to not having to babysit there slaves.
It will give players the choice of how much control they want vs the challange of having to deal with increasly less capeable slave's.
If someone wants to programe slave's into being whore's with very strict scheudals they can.
If someone only want to convince someone to sleep with them they can.
They key part is how much you are willing to lose to gain control.

Atleast that is how i see it.
Risk vs reward.
Power vs cost.
Make it so that the more power your have the more it will cost you.

 

[RogueKnightUK]

I think we need to bear in mind that 'mind control' in itself isn't a plot, but rather a plot device, something used as a means to enable the plot to happen. In that light, I'd have to say that how mind control works, what the mechanics should be, needs to be suited to the genre, plot, and other elements of the game and story.

Are you taking over a town or society by mind control? What era is it? In the age of free press, never mind more modern media such as radio, TV and social media, people acting out of character and a sudden upheaval of power in a place will create news that travels faster than you can mind control those it reaches, so it would need to be subtle and stealthy.

At the lowest end of the scale, is this some powerless nobody who has suddenly gained power, and has no better idea or inclination of what to do with it than take personal pleasure, such as controlling the workplace or school, or building a harem of sex slaves. Even in our day to day world where mind control isn't a factor sane people need to consider, we still have families and friends discussing 'bad influences' of friends or such, and willing to stage an intervention if needs be.

Thinking about the actual plot you are setting up should lead you to then consider what the reaction to various forms of mind control would realistically be, and thus what game mechanics are going to come into play. So to have heavy mind control of someone it may be that the character needs to first learn enough about their normal behaviours and life to ensure they at least mimic enough of it to prevent early discovery, and send every father, husband, or brother, (or a mob of them all), armed into the streets to find and lynch the MC.

No single type, level, mechanics, and such of mind control is going to fit all cases, suit all plots and settings, or provide entertaining gameplay. Instead it is going to be another case of making the right selection to suit the other aspects and create a pleasing whole.

 

[Ataios]

you need to either go full fantasy where 'it just works, don't ask how', or you need to consider the extraordinary stress this would put on sanity

Setting is always a matter of personal preference, steampunk and cyberpunk being my favorites, while present day being by far my least favorite. Regardless of the setting however, I think, if the mind control power in a game is supernatural, it should not be the only supernatural power in the setting. A world where magic is just for perverts with mommy issues, is not very convincing.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

Generally I prefer mind control to be an innate, "natural" ability of the character. How they got it can either be a mystery, or can be something they eventually figure out.
Example explanations could include:
1. Dad was in MK Ultra and was one of the few successes, now son has inherited abilities
2. Dad was an alien or part alien, and telepathy/MC was one of their abilities, but only passes through the male lineage
3. It's a comic book superhero universe, and mutants exist, so the MC is a new mutant discovering their abilities
4. A "radiation accident" or side effect of an experimental drug treatment causes changes in the pineal gland, dramatically boosting libido while also stimulating the development of pheromonal and telepathic abilities
5. An "evolutionary glitch" causes the MC to develop special abilities, thousands of years ahead of the rest of the species

Generally I don't care much for "cinematic hypnotism", "magic spells", "mind control serum/drug", "faerie-granted abilities", "demonic corruption powers", etc. For one, they get used too much. For another, it seems clunkier than just having a character who can do things innately or naturally and is just discovering how to.

One thing I thought about is a character having mind control powers that basically work unconsciously--they don't know they're doing it, but people are behaving a little oddly around them, and why did Mom just put her tongue in their mouth? Or it could start out that way, until they figure out they have an ability.

The idea of the character having a larger goal or nemesis is a good one--instead of just getting their rocks off by exploiting every orifice in a 10 mile radius, they have to defeat an evil(or evil-er) mastermind and/or shadowy agency(Hail Hydrox! munch munch mmm Oreo knockoffs). Or their family and other locals are living seriously fucked up dysfunctional lives and "firm guidance" is needed to give their lives purpose and a deeper sense of fulfillment.

A compromise between "robotic" and "subtle" is what I call "mind control horror"--the person's body is being controlled, and they remain aware but don't understand why they are doing these things or why they can't stop themselves. Which, naturally, would be horrifying to anyone it happened to.

 

[Ataios]

Personally I like both the magic and innate ability approach, but dislike the drug version. While a drug can certainly increase a person's sex drive or decrease her self-control, even in the realm of magic and mad science, there is no explanation how drug can direct a person's sexual desire at a specific other individual. In the case of magic, I think it should also be the kind of magic that can be worked discreetly without visual casting gestures and words. After all, no one should notice that the protagonist is about turn decent housewives into into her personal sex slaves.

Vampires make decent mind controllers as well. Personally I'd favor a female mad scientist with magical powers, she has (re)discovered on her own. Her power, wealth and good looks make her attractive enough, though only her supernatural abilities can turn other women's sexual orientation...

I fully agree that the MC should have an enemy, though I think the antagonist may well be the good guy in this game. After all, a character breaking women's wills to make them his fuck dolls, is per definition evil. Anyone trying to stop her (or him) would do a good deed. As a change to typical mind control games, the protagonist might instead of fucking his/her own mother, fuck the antagonist's mother, making them all the more bitter enemies.

 

[megaplayboy10k]

Personally I like both the magic and innate ability approach, but dislike the drug version. While a drug can certainly increase a person's sex drive or decrease her self-control, even in the realm of magic and mad science, there is no explanation how drug can direct a person's sexual desire at a specific other individual. In the case of magic, I think it should also be the kind of magic that can be worked discreetly without visual casting gestures and words. After all, no one should notice that the protagonist is about turn decent housewives into into her personal sex slaves.

Vampires make decent mind controllers as well. Personally I'd favor a female mad scientist with magical powers, she has (re)discovered on her own. Her power, wealth and good looks make her attractive enough, though only her supernatural abilities can turn other women's sexual orientation...

I fully agree that the MC should have an enemy, though I think the antagonist may well be the good guy in this game. After all, a character breaking women's wills to make them his fuck dolls, is per definition evil. Anyone trying to stop her (or him) would do a good deed. As a change to typical mind control games, the protagonist might instead of fucking his/her own mother, fuck the antagonist's mother, making them all the more bitter enemies.

I had one idea for a plot where the father(himself with mind control powers) was the initial bad guy, eventually replaced by a government agency seeking to suppress, exploit or control people with such abilities. The father is an abusive a-hole "master", and the women in his harem seek to help the MC while "guiding" him towards being a kinder, gentler master.
Enemies of a mind controller could include others with abilities; an agency trying to capture or stop them; someone without powers but who isn't affected(maybe the powers only work on one gender?) ; or even just conventional authorities like suspicious principals, social workers, doctors, cops, etc. Maybe mind control can't solve every challenge...

 

[RogueKnightUK]

I'd strongly suggest reading 'Mind of my Mind' by Octavia E Butler - a superb work of fiction on mind control and telepathy -

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[megaplayboy10k]

I'd strongly suggest reading 'Mind of my Mind' by Octavia E Butler - a superb work of fiction on mind control and telepathy -

You must be registered to see the links

Haven't read that one, but I'm a fan of Butler's work.

 

[prettystupid]

I do agree about not making the subject behave robotically. Making alterations to a character's personality is an appealing kink to some, though, so I'm not sure I'd rule it out as an option.

That's a big part of the appeal for me, personally. I also think the spectrum between robotic, total obedience and subtle suggestions is very interesting, and excluding one end of it closes you off from a lot of possibilities.

For instance, if the MC forces obedience, this could have unintended ramifications on the psyche and life of the subject as they struggle mentally (something someone mentioned in this thread) and also perhaps start to lose their original sense of self.

Too subtle and the MC's changes might have unforeseen consequences due to interaction with the subject's normal personality and lack of stricter control.

 

[forbidden101v]

It's an interesting idea and kind of makes me think of Robozou Doll Play though with a far more advanced mind control system. I recommend just having fun with the idea and don't worry about trying to cover every kink in the book. Trying to please everyone pleases no one in the end.

 

[Ataios]

While I know, that there are plenty of examples of total mind control in fiction, I prefer a form that changes enough to make a character sexually submissive to another but keeping to original character as intact as possible (though a change in sexual preference may well make the character insane). Total control is more akin to making a robotic clone of the character than to dominating her. When a personality is completely overridden, the appeal disappears for me.

When designing mind control powers, you should also think about, who long the effect lasts. You could make a character dependent on the MC for the rest of her life, as it is done in most porn games. You could make the control last for a limited amount of time like the various charm and dominate spells in D&D or could force a character to obey only single commands, like through Genesis in "The Preacher". In the last case, the MC would have to keep in mind that the controlled character will certainly hate him or her for the rest of her life. Also, the command "Give me a blowjob!" wont keep the character from biting the MC's dick off, after she is down blowing.