Others Tips on how to expand on dialogues?

Erokhals

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Sep 12, 2023
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I'm working on my first game and everything is coming together except for the actual dialogue between characters. I have a good outline of what should happen, and how characters & the story will develop, but it's the matter of conveying that to the player in a manner that isn't jarring or boring that I'm struggling with.

Are there any tips you guys have to make dialogue feel more... normal? The lines I have at the moment are all very much stiff and have a man-made feel to them if that makes sense.

Thank you in advance for any help :)
 
Oct 13, 2018
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Emotion is conveyed by two things:
1.) Intonation/tone - basically the rise and fall when you speak
2.) Facial expression

If you add more renders that show changes to the characters facial expression when a new dialogue line comes up, it will immediately enliven your scene. Obviously this means more render time.

Try reading some comics because they have mastered the art of capturing tone through text. Different font styles, sizes, colors, and shapes all convey emotion. Capitalizing dialogue when the character is angry is a very simple example of this.

Try adding lots of "umms", "hmmms", etc. As well as broken speech for example: MC: "hey can I PLEAAASE have the remo-" CHAR2 "NO!" "I'm using it.".

As for the dialogue itself, always stay in character, and always keep the dialogue short so that the viewer can enjoy the renders.

I can't say much more unless you show me some examples of your dialogue and the story context.

Regards.
 
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Erokhals

New Member
Sep 12, 2023
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Emotion is conveyed by two things:
1.) Intonation/tone - basically the rise and fall when you speak
2.) Facial expression

If you add more renders that show changes to the characters facial expression when a new dialogue line comes up, it will immediately enliven your scene. Obviously this means more render time.

Try reading some comics because they have mastered the art of capturing tone through text. Different font styles, sizes, colors, and shapes all convey emotion. Capitalizing dialogue when the character is angry is a very simple example of this.

Try adding lots of "umms", "hmmms", etc. As well as broken speech for example: MC: "hey can I PLEAAASE have the remo-" CHAR2 "NO!" "I'm using it.".

As for the dialogue itself, always stay in character, and always keep the dialogue short so that the viewer can enjoy the renders.

I can't say much more unless you show me some examples of your dialogue and the story context.

Regards.
Thank you, this helps immensely and I've begun the process of rewriting the majority of my dialogue with this in mind - already flows a lot better :)
 
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ayy

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Sep 14, 2016
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Also try to match the dialogue to the character's personality. They can be verbose if they're supposed to be a genius scholar in their early 20s, but otherwise try to get them to talk according to their age and life experience.
 
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osanaiko

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One way to help yourself get into natural dialogue is to find some transcripts of real people talking conversationally (unscripted) - you'll see all the broken grammar, half sentences, filler words etc. that are the norm in conversation. Each party is both listening and helping the other (finishing sentences or echoing words) as well as vying for a slot to put their input to the discussion.
Note that you don't need to go that far in game dialogue - it's still a written word product. but as was mentioned above you can capture some of the flavor of spoken word with strategic pauses "...", expressive sounds "Ohhh", "Erm..", and interruption.

You can also add some hints to the text "*sigh*" to convey non-verbal non-visual information (especially if it's hard to show in the game images either due to it's nature or lack of time to make so many renders).

And finally, adding extra images to show subtle emotion are very powerful - a slight shift of eye contact, a brief furrow in the brow, a tilt of the head... just don;t go overboard - the "emotion expression morphs" generally are waaaaay too extreme because they need to have a clear effect in the still images used in marketing the product.

also, the power of the subtle expressions is that you have to constantly switch out the images during the conversation, because it is the contrast from image to image that conveys the emotion. Imagine if someone looks like slightly grumpy all the time - then you might say they have "resting bitch face". But if they are normally neutral expression and then show a grumpy face, you can tell that sometime just triggered their emotion.
 
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GNVE

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Jul 20, 2018
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And finally, adding extra images to show subtle emotion are very powerful - a slight shift of eye contact, a brief furrow in the brow, a tilt of the head... just don;t go overboard - the "emotion expression morphs" generally are waaaaay too extreme because they need to have a clear effect in the still images used in marketing the product.
They do work but you generally don't slide them to 100% you can also mix and match morphs. For instance to get a 'enjoying sex' morph I mix in a little bit of pain and/or anger into the positive emotion morphs.

As for OP's question: A lot of good advice has already been given.

What I want to add is that you aren't trying to make a realistic conversation but the imitation of a realistic conversation. Generally real conversations have a lot of fluff topics (weather, tv shows, what's for dinner tonight, etc.) Those are interesting for the people engaged in the conversation but not for an outside observer.
So for TV, theatre, games, books and other media the dialogue tends to be far more dense in information. Dialogue included has to have a reason to be there. It needs to show something about the world, the characters or their relationship that the audience does not already know.
Let's say you have a scene in a restaurant. You will generally leave the ordering of the food out of the dialogue. Unless the mundaneness of it sets up the aliens breaking through the window two seconds later or you want to set up the main character to be unfaithful by ogling the waitress or you might want to show the main character is an ass by ordering for their partner.

What some people find helpful is to read the dialogue aloud. It is easier to hear things that are out of place rather than just reading it. Also stepping away from your dialogue for a day or two and than rereading it is helpful. Lastly try to ask others to proofread. They might see things you don't.
 

Impious Monk

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Oct 14, 2021
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I'm working on my first game and everything is coming together except for the actual dialogue between characters. I have a good outline of what should happen, and how characters & the story will develop, but it's the matter of conveying that to the player in a manner that isn't jarring or boring that I'm struggling with.

Are there any tips you guys have to make dialogue feel more... normal? The lines I have at the moment are all very much stiff and have a man-made feel to them if that makes sense.

Thank you in advance for any help :)
 

anne O'nymous

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What I want to add is that you aren't trying to make a realistic conversation but the imitation of a realistic conversation.
With a lot of emphasis on this.


If you write a realistic conversation, you'll write something boring, mostly unintelligible, that will looks anything but natural and realistic.

This is a realistic conversation:
X - Hmmm, tasty.
Y - Yeeeeeaaaah...
X - What would she say ?

And this is a realistic written dialog:
X - Hmm, the girl who just passed was pretty.
Y - I agree with you, it was a really pleasant sight.
X - Don't you have a wife ?

During a conversation there's a lot of none verbal information that, whatever efforts you put on the CGs, can't be transcribed. And, of course, there's the shared knowledge, something that haven't necessarily be brought to the player attention.

For a more in depth help, there's this post by example.
 

Synx

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Jul 30, 2018
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Just read your dialog aloud. It's the easiest way to see if something sounds off.

Besides that dialog in general in movies/books is very to the point. Small talk is kept to the minimum since its not interesting for the story. Dialog is there to push the story forward, not to fill in gaps between parts of the story.

Dialog shouldn't be used as an information dump. It's something a lot of games on here does wrong; they over explain to much. The reader doesn't need to know everything. If something isn't important for the story, just leave it out.

Keep sentences short and simple. In a normal conversation you often than not use the most simplest way to describe something, or to get a point across. Using a ton of big words makes your character sound posh.

For example the realistic written dialog from anne O'nymous is fine, but its not something I would use in a normal conversation. 'The girl who just passed' is to me a bit of a weird way to guide person B to this girl. I (and in my experience most people) use some defining aspect from the girl; The girl in the red dress, the Girl with the ponytails, etc. It gets the information across with minimal chance of a misunderstanding. Besides 'The girl who passed' would only be usable in a low crowded place, and in that case the whole 'Who passed' part is redundant. You could have just show the MC looking at the girl that walked by, and a simple 'She is pretty' would have been enough.

The second sentence is extremely posh. 'It was a really pleasant sight' sounds like something a royalty in a country club with a monocle would say. Just a simple, Yeah, she is pretty, Or Yeah, she looks nice, would mean the same thing and sound (to me) way more realistic coming from an average Joe than 'It was a really pleasant sight'.

Anyway thats enough ripping apart somebody ells example (sorry lol)

In general writing dialog is way easier if something interesting is happening in the scene/story. Take Eternum as example; Its to me one of the best writing games on here, since a lot is happening in it. Scenes take place in vastly different settings, with an easy to follow but wide sprawling story. The writing is there to support what is happening in the renders, and not the other way around. The dialog isn't anything groundbreaking, but it keeps you involved with just the sheer amount of stuff happening. This is way harder to achieve if your story is more a Slice of Life where not much exciting or interesting stuff happens. The dialog needs to carry the game. And thats is hard; I can't be the only one that start to skip through most dialog in those games since the dialog is just not great.

Just to give another examples to make my point clearer; The shawshank redemption is an amazing movie, but relies completely on the characters acting and dialog. The story itself isn't anything spectacular; With bad acting/dialog the movie would prob just be bad.

Now compare that to something like the Fast and Furious movies. The acting and dialog isn't anything to write home about (could even be considered mediocre at best), but they are still entertaining for the simple fact a lot of shit happens. The movie gets carried by its action scenes, and the dialog is there more to support whats happening than the other way around. It won't win an Oscar or anything, but they made 10 for a reason; people just like the action of it (even if the latter ones went way over the top and are becoming a bit to much of a cliche with the whole family part).
 

anne O'nymous

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Besides that dialog in general in movies/books is very to the point. Small talk is kept to the minimum since its not interesting for the story. Dialog is there to push the story forward, not to fill in gaps between parts of the story.
While I agree with the last sentence, the two others have to be weighed up.

Firstly because small talk offer the best opportunities to dig a bit in the characters' life and personality.
While not strictly important in regard of the story, it's by knowing the characters better that players develop feelings (good or bad) for them and, therefore, that the story itself will catch them.
There's nothing more infuriating than a character that pass its time breaking the action with "wait, before we go, I need to do/say this". Each time it seem that a progress will be made, players will be awaiting her annoying interruption, already grumbling...
Gotcha, you involved them. Not in the best looking way, but you did it, it's more than what half the games available here achieve to do.

Secondly because they add depth, and a sense of living, to the story.
They are showing that the characters have a life behind being involved in the story. They aren't robots, nor are they dummies, and, by then, can be loved, or hated. Books and TV series that really succeed, and that stand the test of time, are precisely the ones that don't focus on their story, but also take the time to give a life to their characters through, among other things, small talks.
Remove small talks from The Lord of the Rings, and you remove a third of movies content (more if you use the books as reference), while removing three quarter of the interest. Plus, Gimli, Peregrin Took and Meriadoc Brandybuck would be silent 99% of the time.

Thirdly because they help to balance the pace of the story.
As annoying as Miss "wait a minute" can be, it's her who permit to the story to last three hours instead of five minutes. Write her more clumsy than annoying, and she'll because the lever you'll use each time you need to lower the tension.
[Note: Because apparently it need to be said explicitly, these are voluntarily grotesque dialog lines. The goal isn't to be realistic, nor to be 100% accurate, but to give the general tone in order for the reader to understand ; it's an illustration of my saying, not a professorial example.]
"Oh my god ! If the information are true, Doctor madguy will destroy the country in five hours ! Quick, quick, we need to stop it, he live next door, we should have the time !"
"Er... Can you wait a minute ? I need to change my shoes, I just broke my heel."
"God ! Girl, when will you learn to use practical shoes when in mission ?"

While, of course, one shouldn't abuse small talk, they are still an important factor, as well as a perfectly legit narrative lever. It's not them by themselves that are an issue, but the way they are usually used.


Dialog shouldn't be used as an information dump. It's something a lot of games on here does wrong; they over explain to much. The reader doesn't need to know everything. If something isn't important for the story, just leave it out.
And here, it's the opposite, I agree with the starts, and disagree with the end.

Importance is something relative, once again because the story by itself isn't the center of the game/book/movie. It's something important, what link all the elements together and give a purpose to all the actions, but what matters is the characters ; something that apply even more to adult games.
Take Scooby-Doo by example. The viewer isn't solving a mystery, the viewer isn't at all interested by the mystery. No, the viewer is witnessing a group a teenage friends that are transitioning to adult life. The different mysteries are the reason why the characters are here, but not the reason why the viewers are here.

It's the same for, once again, The Lord of the Rings. Defeating Sauron is important, and what links the characters together, but the core of the story is the journey, not its goal. It's the reason why Peter Jackson was the first one to succeed while adapting the story into a movie ; he was also the first one to tell the journey and not focus on the sole goal.
Even the breakfast complaint, as useless as the scene can feel, is really important. Two persons, Pippin and Merry, that have nothing to do here, feel and, most of the time, effectively are totally useless, and who are ready to complain about what feel like a pure futility, if not a pure childish whim, will end being the heroes that will spend all their (limited) intellectual capabilities in order to force Ents to join the war.
There's the equivalent of two movies/books in between those two scenes. Yet, without the apparently useless first, the second loses all its meaning.


Anyway thats enough ripping apart somebody ells example (sorry lol)
There's no need to be sorry, because it offer a good introduction for the next point: The importance of context understanding, and the importance of keeping things into their context.

It's something that GNVE already said when talking about the restaurant scene. The dialog you'll write, and how you'll write them, is strongly dependent on the context.
Whatever the tone or the body language, you are limited in what you can express through them. Therefore, the words will have to convey a bigger part of the information than they usually do. And to achieve this, they need to match the context you have in mind because, from the player point of view, it's them that will define it.


Take Eternum as example; Its to me one of the best writing games on here, since a lot is happening in it.
Oh god... Well, this explain the rest I guess.
 

Synx

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Remove small talks from The Lord of the Rings, and you remove a third of movies content (more if you use the books as reference), while removing three quarter of the interest. Plus, Gimli, Peregrin Took and Meriadoc Brandybuck would be silent 99% of the time.
It's the same for, once again, The Lord of the Rings. Defeating Sauron is important, and what links the characters together, but the core of the story is the journey, not its goal. It's the reason why Peter Jackson was the first one to succeed while adapting the story into a movie ; he was also the first one to tell the journey and not focus on the sole goal.
Even the breakfast complaint, as useless as the scene can feel, is really important. Two persons, Pippin and Merry, that have nothing to do here, feel and, most of the time, effectively are totally useless, and who are ready to complain about what feel like a pure futility, if not a pure childish whim, will end being the heroes that will spend all their (limited) intellectual capabilities in order to force Ents to join the war.
But both of these aren't small talk or not important to the story. The banter between characters in the Lord of the Rings is to establish what kind of persons they are; Samwise isn't the bravest at the beginning, The tooks don't take anything to seriously at the beginning, etc. The journey, everything that happens to them, and the conversations they have while on the road shows how they change. Like the breakfast part 100% shows that the tooks don't take the journey to seriously at that point, and that Aragorn is a kind person (he throws some apples to the Tooks after their breakfast banter). Thats their personality and that part emphasis it. Yes the story would be the same without it, but it adds just that like extra to it to establish what kind of characters they are. Besides its only what 30s in the movies, and half a page in the books. It's just a short banter between characters to highlight the difference between their personalities.

But games on here sometimes go on and on about some boring topic that could have finished after 5 sentences. I can't count the games I have just started to skip for the lewd scenes after 20-30m of talking that could have easily been an handful of slides. This is especially a problem with larger games where their 'main objective' of getting laid has finishes and they lack any direction story wise from that point.

Oh god... Well, this explain the rest I guess.
Best writing might not have been the best way to say it. Its to me one of the best games here, because its one of the few games where the writing is there to support the renders/story, instead of the other way around. Yeah the writing isn't anything spectacular, but it has a good flow, is simple and easy to follow, and does what it needs to do.

Since nobody here is the next Stephen king, creating a game that relies almost solely on the writing is just not going to happen. And most games are just that; The story itself isn't anything special (I wanna fuck everyone), so the writing needs to be spectacular to make up for that. And thats just not happening.
 

anne O'nymous

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The banter between characters in the Lord of the Rings is to establish what kind of persons they are;
Thanks you so much for this one line summary of what I wrote...