Too many patreons, too little and too shitty content

[W22N]

Hi, I'm sorta new here and bothered by this situation so I thought I might as well vent with this post.
So, the problem I'm having is finding too many awesome projects that are either dead / on hiatus / take WAY too long to update.
For starters I know that you might think that I'm a pirate-beggar and whatever, truth is I'm not, I've been a patreon for a bunch of smaller developers over the time (usually $5 a month on 4-5 devs at the time max) and the trend I see is, most of them start great, they can't find a game they enjoy so they decide to make their own, ideas flowing through their heads, they write it down, render some images, interact with their followers, and it continues that way until (in most cases) they're either demotivated or they start changing, whether because that's something they want (unlikely), because their audience wants it, or to follow the cash. Now I'm not against devs making money, on the contrary, I feel like they should be well rewarded for their efforts, but when you see a single guy that works a regular 9 to 5 job make a good game with good story/writing, good enough renders push small updates weekly because he enjoys it and wants to make something that he enjoys, and compare it to groups of people making 10k a month and updating the game every 3-4 months? I do feel like we overindulge them.
And I'm not even one of those guys that expects 10 different animated and interactive sex scenes every update, I'm perfectly okay with updates without sex, even though I can kind of see some people getting annoyed by it, but that goes back to the point of building your audience out of people that enjoy what you're making instead of hornybois that want to jerk off as if it was a comic and they want to dictate what and when you do with your game by throwing $10 at you.
To give a concrete example of what I'm talking about, Fasder (dev of

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), you can like his game or hate it (I personally enjoy it, and like where he's taking it) making $330 a month, last updated 9 days ago.
Then you have Vilelab (

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) $440 a month, really good looking renders, however, last "updated" 1 month ago, which was it's release, which you can resume in "you now live with your aunt and two female cousins, one of them is wholesome and the other one is a bitch that hates you. You haven't seen them in years, here's a scene of your aunt masturbating and your cousins on the beach. I wouldn't have a problem in this with this in itself, but at first I really liked the renders so I went to the guy's patreon to check if he actually needed the money, I look at the note on the left and it reads:
"A New Beginning
Reaching this goal means that you guys are interested in what I do. I don't have much time on my hands with my regular job, but I'll dedicate more time to the project."
And I'm just stuck by it, the goal mentioned was 500, but what happens before that? You keep draining your patreons wallets while you wait to reach that? their support isn't really important enough for you until you can really cash out with it?
I don't know if I'm able to express it correctly but my resentment is towards that actitude of "I'm not moving out of bed for less than 5 grand" (or at least that's what it feels like), if I'm giving you $5/10/25/500 I'm doing it in hopes of supporting your project, not your lifestyle, and I feel like that's not being respected (not referring to vile in particular). To give another example so it doesn't feel like I have anything against vile, who I think can make a great game, dark silver, got well known by making one of the biggest games out there (which was only good if it's one of the first things you play, at least that's what it felt to me, blackmail, rape, you name it, he did it), almost 2k patreons supporting him, one day he decides to drop it (admittedly the patreon bullshit on incest was annoying, but it could have been dealt with like others did) and revive his dead project that now requires internet connection to play (?). It'd be perfectly okay if those patreons were there because they want to see what you do with your new project, but I think it has more to do with hoping for the revival of big brother rather than the new game.
Finally you also have other new devs pushing shit demos with the most popular tags to see what sticks, just doing it for the cash, and that kind of floods everything with shit.

Sorry for the long rant and for any incoherences or spelling mistakes, I usually have trouble expressing myself and when you throw english into the mix it's more... complicated.

Dear devs/game writers: would/should of doesn't exist, it's just the phonetics of the pronunciation of would/should HAVE. And get your shit together on your you're. Thanks

 

[Savor]

first of all it would be an eye candy if you doesnt writte such a wall of text without empy space.
if i understand you correctly you rant because creators writte in their goals if they get $$ they would put more time in their games but without it they want to put less or just the same amount like now in it. thats totally fine to me because if you look at the costs that such a games brings home, your machine is probably rendering all the time on full power which costs then you need to buy loads of assets they are not that cheap. and if you dont get enough support you never know how long you keep that project alive.

but you're right in the thing that lots of creator doesnt seem to create what they like, they just render something out, using renpy as an engine and asking their patreons for ideas. this is where i ask myself the question "why does he wanna create something if he dont know what he want to create?". seems like they just see how much the big creators get and want also some fame like them without any talent.

i hope, i was understanding you right.

 

[W22N]

first of all it would be an eye candy if you doesnt writte such a wall of text without empy space.
if i understand you correctly you rant because creators writte in their goals if they get $$ they would put more time in their games but without it they want to put less or just the same amount like now in it. thats totally fine to me because if you look at the costs that such a games brings home, your machine is probably rendering all the time on full power which costs then you need to buy loads of assets they are not that cheap. and if you dont get enough support you never know how long you keep that project alive.

but you're right in the thing that lots of creator doesnt seem to create what they like, they just render something out, using renpy as an engine and asking their patreons for ideas. this is where i ask myself the question "why does he wanna create something if he dont know what he want to create?". seems like they just see how much the big creators get and want also some fame like them without any talent.

i hope, i was understanding you right.

It isn't about how much they make or they want to make, it's about "I'm busy but if you want more, reaching this goal I'll put more time". You're basically taking a shit on the x amount of people that put 499 dollars in your pockets every month until you hit 500 and suddenly you have the time. Although as I said, it isn't about that guy in particular, big teams making stacks on top of stacks still put out very little content when you compare them to people that actually enjoy what they do.
And when you leave that much time between updates, and you don't like what you're doing, what's stopping you from dropping it and making another game, rinse and repeat, if the cash is flowing, it's the same to you.

 

[whiskeyrose]

So if you've ever made a game, you come to realize how much time and effort it takes to put it together. This is even true if you're using a simple game engine, like RPGmaker, Twine, or RAGS. This is even true if you're getting your images from DAZ stock models, Honeyselect, real porn, or even just straight up ripping art off google.

From experience, it's neat to come up with a game idea and want to bring it to life. That's all well and good but at some point in the project you're going to find yourself 20 hours in, the game isn't anywhere near close to a semblence of a finished project. At this point you lean back from writing your gobin getting buttfucked by a futa scene and ask yourself "What the fuck am I doing this for." Even worse is most of the time you can't even get off to your own stuff, you wrote the goddamn thing and it just doesn't do it for you.

For the longest time the answer to that question was "nothing" or even better "For random anons on the internet to tell me I'm lazy and stupid for XY or Z reason". It's why there's that meme image floating around about how working on hentai games is hazardous to your health, and makes your home prone to fires, and makes your computer exposed to sudden hard drive deletions or failures. It's because making a game of any kind is hard, and after a while you just want to stop.

But now we have patreon, which gives incentive to actually put effort into finishing your gay furry footjob simulator. Because before you were writing that scene where the bunny is jerking off the goat for giggles, which makes it so much easier to just walk away from. But now perverts online are paying you 400 dollars a month to write this scene. 400 dollars goes a long way for something you were doing already, with roommates that's sometimes nearly a month's rent in places. Forget if you live in some 3rd world like Brazil or some shithole in russia, that's goddamn bank. And for something you may only be updating once a month. I mean shit, if you got 200 dollars for doing almost nothing, I sure as shit would take it.

 

[thecardinal]

I've spent months working on my game which I only just released last week. Compensation would be nice, but this year I have learned different render engines and coding.

But I also understand that with the abundance of abandoned games out there no one wants to donate to a newly established Patreon that only has one 0.1 game out.

 

[Savor]

@whiskeyrose
engines like renpy and the other are made for the only purpose that they are easy to use, creative people have their a chance of making their dream storys come true. without any big difficulty coding. It's just alot of work if you aren't really passionate of that what you are doing. i scripted a gamemode over 1 year because i was passionate about what i was doing. after that year i throw it away because it just didnt interested me anymore. i had my fun an thats it. if you dont have passion in that what you do, maybe you should stop doing it? there is no reason to keep going expect you just want money from patreons

the last words is if a game developer gets bored from his work, he probably isnt a good game developer. thats it.

 

[Sam]

@whiskeyrose
engines like renpy and the other are made for the only purpose that they are easy to use, creative people have their a chance of making their dream storys come true.

Programming isn't the only part of game development. Planning, writing, creating the art, programming, PR, etc...

after that year i throw it away because it just didnt interested me anymore. i had my fun an thats it. if you dont have passion in that what you do, maybe you should stop doing it? there is no reason to keep going expect you just want money from patreons

For many people creating games is their full time job, and for many others they're aspiring it to be their full time job. What you described was a hobby; which is something entirely different.

the last words is if a game developer gets bored from his work, he probably isnt a good game developer. thats it.

If a programmer gets bored programming then he isn't a good programmer
If a writer gets bored writing then he isn't a good writer
If a builder gets bored building then he isn't a good builder
If a doctor gets bored working then he isn't a good doctor
It's just completely untrue and ignorant to say.

 

[whiskeyrose]

@whiskeyrose
engines like renpy and the other are made for the only purpose that they are easy to use, creative people have their a chance of making their dream storys come true. without any big difficulty coding. It's just alot of work if you aren't really passionate of that what you are doing. i scripted a gamemode over 1 year because i was passionate about what i was doing. after that year i throw it away because it just didnt interested me anymore. i had my fun an thats it. if you dont have passion in that what you do, maybe you should stop doing it? there is no reason to keep going expect you just want money from patreons

the last words is if a game developer gets bored from his work, he probably isnt a good game developer. thats it.

For sure, and I think you and I are in agreement here mostly. I myself I guess am a game dev (I have the title it seems), but I have no patreon. I've made a few complete projects purely based off passion, but even for the most passionate dev, you get the burnout. I mean most of us have full time jobs and a life along with making some bizzarre porno game (which is usually needing to be hidden from our normal lives).

I mean, my big project Breeders Haven that I've worked on and off for the past year or more. I think I've put anywhere from 100-200 hours into making the game. And its a Twine game that I rip webms for the images. There are days I'm tempted to toss out a patreon and see what I could make. Because goddammit I've got bills to pay, and an extra couple hundred would make life a lot easier than without.

edit: just to clarify. I'm not making a patreon. I make my games because I want to grow the impregnation kink community, and hopefully motivate someone more talented than myself to contribute and make something great.

I'll never collect money on the games I have now, especially because I'm ripping webms from real porn. I'm not making money off stolen content, just a passion project.

 

[Savor]

Programming isn't the only part of game development. Planning, writing, creating the art, programming, PR, etc...

if you have passion in what you do, it isnt really work. noone tells you to keep doing that what you do if you dont want to do it. this disscussion here is not about how much work it is, its about that people do it just for money not for passion.

For many people, creating games is their full time job. What you described was a hobby; which is something entirely different.

we talk about creator that doesnt get even $500 we can't talk about that they do it as a fulltime job.

 

[Savor]

you get the burnout.

noone forces someone to do it, we are free people. i dont see anything that forces you to keep going if you dont want to do it. patreon is meant to that people support your hobby if they think what you are doing is great. its not meant to be some second job, it just can happen that it gets to one. but at this point we still talk about hobby development.

 

[Ignazzio]

Patreon isn't a real market. It's not a store. It's a support platform for different creators so as long as someone sees huge potential game can remain succesful with fewer updates. A couple of my favourite devs release their games on a 3-month (at least) basis and I'm totally fine with that as that's always better for a game.

 

[Deleted member 167032]

Here's my take on it....

Ive been working on my game since last year October. I still have not released it. I have two things that concern me.
1. My story is Linear and I'm not deviating from it. Will this be something people do want to play? I don't know, guess we'll find out.
2. Will the character build and story be good enough to hold the reader and how much time is too long before next update?

There is no rule that says 1 month for an update. I agree some devs do take long, but it's their story and they have to deal with the disappointed users that are fed up with waiting.
I am doing this for FUN, period. YES i would like to get paid for it for various reasons, however i've decided to ask per project and kept the patreon Tiers low. I live in a shitty 3rd world country as described in earlier post so whatever money i am sponsored with does HELP a lot. I definitely need to Upgrade my PC. Yes i have a 8-5 job so my work is done at night and on weekends between family time.
I did a simple fingering a pussy animation last night and it took 10h40min for a 1920x1080 resolution (30 frames) image series. So it all takes time and loads of effort.

I sit on the toilet and in stead of taking a shit i think about the next scene in the game. My brain is working overtime. I can understand some devs walking away from it or get burned out... Money is a good motivator but some of us devs do it for the FUN factor, or maybe it's a challenge.

For the OP, i like your questions and concerns, shows me you're one of those who are after well thought out game, that will also have longevity to it.

 

[Dr PinkCake]

Here's my take on it....

Ive been working on my game since last year October. I still have not released it. I have two things that concern me.
1. My story is Linear and I'm not deviating from it. Will this be something people do want to play? I don't know, guess we'll find out.
2. Will the character build and story be good enough to hold the reader and how much time is too long before next update?

There is no rule that says 1 month for an update. I agree some devs do take long, but it's their story and they have to deal with the disappointed users that are fed up with waiting.
I am doing this for FUN, period. YES i would like to get paid for it for various reasons, however i've decided to ask per project and kept the patreon Tiers low. I live in a shitty 3rd world country as described in earlier post so whatever money i am sponsored with does HELP a lot. I definitely need to Upgrade my PC. Yes i have a 8-5 job so my work is done at night and on weekends between family time.
I did a simple fingering a pussy animation last night and it took 10h40min for a 1920x1080 resolution (30 frames) image series. So it all takes time and loads of effort.

I sit on the toilet and in stead of taking a shit i think about the next scene in the game. My brain is working overtime. I can understand some devs walking away from it or get burned out... Money is a good motivator but some of us devs do it for the FUN factor, or maybe it's a challenge.

For the OP, i like your questions and concerns, shows me you're one of those who are after well thought out game, that will also have longevity to it.

It sounds like you need a trustworthy beta tester for your game. It's so scary to release a game, there's that nagging feeling that you always can do more. But somewhere you must draw the line. A beta tester is great for this purpose. Someone who reports bugs/inconsistencies and give general feedback on your game. Someone who isn't you. You are the expert on your own game, but it must work for someone impartial too.

 

[W22N]

For sure, and I think you and I are in agreement here mostly. I myself I guess am a game dev (I have the title it seems), but I have no patreon. I've made a few complete projects purely based off passion, but even for the most passionate dev, you get the burnout. I mean most of us have full time jobs and a life along with making some bizzarre porno game (which is usually needing to be hidden from our normal lives).

I mean, my big project Breeders Haven that I've worked on and off for the past year or more. I think I've put anywhere from 100-200 hours into making the game. And its a Twine game that I rip webms for the images. There are days I'm tempted to toss out a patreon and see what I could make. Because goddammit I've got bills to pay, and an extra couple hundred would make life a lot easier than without.

edit: just to clarify. I'm not making a patreon. I make my games because I want to grow the impregnation kink community, and hopefully motivate someone more talented than myself to contribute and make something great.

I'll never collect money on the games I have now, especially because I'm ripping webms from real porn. I'm not making money off stolen content, just a passion project.

But this is what I'm talking about, you put as much effort into making the game as you can because you want to do it, I really wouldn't mind, and would even recommend you to toss out a patreon. You're already putting everything into it, so those extra dollars could mean less extra hours on work or in other cases a better rig to render. Doesn't compare to people asking for money to start working...
I think about it and compare it to buying an early access game (see no man's sky fiasco), I'm giving you money for the game getting something back and the hope that you'll finish it and polish it. With patreon people give money monthly to support what you do based on a leap of faith, new devs have no reputation, no name and they can ditch whenever they want no consequences whatsoever (teacher's pets for example), patreons do it because it feels like we're part of the process and really want to support the project. But when you are getting more and more money and your effort is still minimum.. Idk, I just feel bad about it..

 

[WhitePhantom]

Do you know how long it takes to put a game together and how much it costs?
Electricity from having a PC in use 24/7, assets & time?!

My game is only coming up to v.013 and it's needing over 300 renders for the next update, each one of those needs positioning and lighting in Daz, rendering, coding into RenPy, and some renders take several hours each?

Also saying nobody forces you to it, if you commit several thousands pounds/dollars/whatever into a PC and all the assets to make it because you want to start making porn games, you are very likely to get burnt out, especially if your return is very very low (ie all new creators), because you can't work and render as fast as you want to, so you try and squeeze every second in to maximise your output. I'm fairly lucky, I used a redundancy payout to fund my start so it was cash I wasn't expecting as I was leaving anyway, so mine is more of a hobby, but if I started up on a loan/credit card and was planning on surviving off of the money from it, I'd already be ripping my hair out.

 

[Dr PinkCake]

But this is what I'm talking about, you put as much effort into making the game as you can because you want to do it, I really wouldn't mind, and would even recommend you to toss out a patreon. You're already putting everything into it, so those extra dollars could mean less extra hours on work or in other cases a better rig to render. Doesn't compare to people asking for money to start working...
I think about it and compare it to buying an early access game (see no man's sky fiasco), I'm giving you money for the game getting something back and the hope that you'll finish it and polish it. With patreon people give money monthly to support what you do based on a leap of faith, new devs have no reputation, no name and they can ditch whenever they want no consequences whatsoever (teacher's pets for example), patreons do it because it feels like we're part of the process and really want to support the project. But when you are getting more and more money and your effort is still minimum.. Idk, I just feel bad about it..

I get your point, I really do. Have you thought about it this way?:
The dev started from scratch, with zero following. He has made a huge initial investment buying assets etc, not to mention the thousands of hours he has worked unrewarded. After succeeding he now has a huge following and can reap the rewards from his efforts. Sure it might suck to not get updates, they may be few and far between but people are free to leave whenever they want to. Patrons may actually show appreciation for his past work and not just for a promise of future work. Of course the dev should be transparent with what to expect from him.

 

[W22N]

Do you know how long it takes to put a game together and how much it costs?
Electricity from having a PC in use 24/7, assets & time?!

My game is only coming up to v.013 and it's needing over 300 renders for the next update, each one of those needs positioning and lighting in Daz, rendering, coding into RenPy, and some renders take several hours each?

Also saying nobody forces you to it, if you commit several thousands pounds/dollars/whatever into a PC and all the assets to make it because you want to start making porn games, you are very likely to get burnt out, especially if your return is very very low (ie all new creators), because you can't work and render as fast as you want to, so you try and squeeze every second in to maximise your output. I'm fairly lucky, I used a redundancy payout to fund my start so it was cash I wasn't expecting as I was leaving anyway, so mine is more of a hobby, but if I started up on a loan/credit card and was planning on surviving off of the money from it, I'd already be ripping my hair out.

I get your point, I really do. Have you thought about it this way?:
The dev started from scratch, with zero following. He has made a huge initial investment buying assets etc, not to mention the thousands of hours he has worked unrewarded. After succeeding he now has a huge following and can reap the rewards from his efforts. Sure it might suck to not get updates, they may be few and far between but people are free to leave whenever they want to. Patrons may actually show appreciation for his past work and not just for a promise of future work. Of course the dev should be transparent with what to expect from him.

So this is the main difference I have with what you guys are saying. I think devs should absolutely be well rewarded for the time and effort they put in, no question about it. However you guys talk about initial investments for the game as if you as game devs sat down on your chairs, contemplated whether to put that money into the stock market or buy a rig to make us degenerates happy and just thinking about potential returns you decided to create porn games.
I'm more than happy supporting newer devs when I like what they're doing, but from my point of view, is appointing money monthly to a project I believe in and think I'll enjoy, with very little expectations whatsoever. From what I've seen, if we look at the goals, say they have 5, in the first one there usually isn't as much content, regardless of updates being weekly or every 3 months, 2 and 3 are the best one, quality gets a lot better, they're pumping out everything you can see they're fucking motivated for this shit, 4 it falls down and 5 it basically becomes something you have to check every 6 months. I could be completely wrong/biased, but that's what I've seen in a bunch of cases and makes me fear that if you're only doing it for the money this is no different than bitcoin mining for some devs.
Overall I think I'm tired of seeing projects i like thrown out / abandoned and not being able to do anything about it

 

[Dr PinkCake]

So this is the main difference I have with what you guys are saying. I think devs should absolutely be well rewarded for the time and effort they put in, no question about it. However you guys talk about initial investments for the game as if you as game devs sat down on your chairs, contemplated whether to put that money into the stock market or buy a rig to make us degenerates happy and just thinking about potential returns you decided to create porn games.
I'm more than happy supporting newer devs when I like what they're doing, but from my point of view, is appointing money monthly to a project I believe in and think I'll enjoy, with very little expectations whatsoever. From what I've seen, if we look at the goals, say they have 5, in the first one there usually isn't as much content, regardless of updates being weekly or every 3 months, 2 and 3 are the best one, quality gets a lot better, they're pumping out everything you can see they're fucking motivated for this shit, 4 it falls down and 5 it basically becomes something you have to check every 6 months. I could be completely wrong/biased, but that's what I've seen in a bunch of cases and makes me fear that if you're only doing it for the money this is no different than bitcoin mining for some devs.
Overall I think I'm tired of seeing projects i like thrown out / abandoned and not being able to do anything about it

I can't speak for other devs, only for me. I wanted to make a game that I both enjoyed making and playing. The money from donations wasn't a motivator at all. But please check

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for yourself and see the prices devs pay for the assets used in games. It is A LOT. And truthfully, that is money that could be invested, I would have loved pumping that money into crypto. But I chose to invest it in my hobby instead.
I think the main issue to devs giving up might be burnout or the constant pressure of performing to expectations. I dislike seeing a good project being abandoned too. I guess I just have gotten a different perspective being on the side of the devs.

 

[WhitePhantom]

So this is the main difference I have with what you guys are saying. I think devs should absolutely be well rewarded for the time and effort they put in, no question about it. However you guys talk about initial investments for the game as if you as game devs sat down on your chairs, contemplated whether to put that money into the stock market or buy a rig to make us degenerates happy and just thinking about potential returns you decided to create porn games.
I'm more than happy supporting newer devs when I like what they're doing, but from my point of view, is appointing money monthly to a project I believe in and think I'll enjoy, with very little expectations whatsoever. From what I've seen, if we look at the goals, say they have 5, in the first one there usually isn't as much content, regardless of updates being weekly or every 3 months, 2 and 3 are the best one, quality gets a lot better, they're pumping out everything you can see they're fucking motivated for this shit, 4 it falls down and 5 it basically becomes something you have to check every 6 months. I could be completely wrong/biased, but that's what I've seen in a bunch of cases and makes me fear that if you're only doing it for the money this is no different than bitcoin mining for some devs.
Overall I think I'm tired of seeing projects i like thrown out / abandoned and not being able to do anything about it

I just think you're finding some people get too big and then decided money was more important than the content when they originally started.

Perfect examples of this for me would be DmD. I used to give $20 a month to DmD, and now the game is getting an update once every 3 months whereas Melody is getting an update every month and a half, despite the fact this guy was earning big money (I think it was like £20k a month?!) off of DmD and it STILL you haven't slept with D. Clearly $$ is the pure motivation here, that's the only way you can justify the 33/66 split of focus.

Yeah those kind of people I agree with you, but if it's a guy getting like £1k a month he's getting paid less than minimum wage for the time he's probably putting in, so if updates are slow don't get too upset.

 

[Deleted member 167032]

I have, Jmolle and Dparx reviewing the game. As it stand they are now busy with the final version. I just have to record some music tracks add to the game and we are all set. I myself go over each scene i create multiple times so spelling errors and image errors are low when i ask them to test. I have also asked a friend of mine to review and he's not into these type of games at all.

So far they like it, but you can understand my trepidation seeing as it's not the normal type of incest click fest game.

It sounds like you need a trustworthy beta tester for your game. It's so scary to release a game, there's that nagging feeling that you always can do more. But somewhere you must draw the line. A beta tester is great for this purpose. Someone who reports bugs/inconsistencies and give general feedback on your game. Someone who isn't you. You are the expert on your own game, but it must work for someone impartial too.