"training"?

[Slamjax]

Hi All,

So playing JP visual novels for years, NTR plays are common for many games and it never bothered me. Then when I started to get interested in Ren'Py games, I became aware there were strong opinions on this outside of Japan.

 

[Meaning Less]

In most cases not really, that's a common element in training/pimping games.

If there is no design to make the protagonist jealous then chances are it isn't netorare.

 

[DuniX]

It should be Pimping if the male protagonist/player is in control of the decision.
It could be NTR if the female decides that even if the player is in control of the female.

The players might still want to have "pure" heroines that are not touched by any other man but that doesn't make it NTR.
In a Corruption and Prostitution game that is hard to do.

 

[Cumanji]

.....depends on how interested he is?
A callous bastard, no. Or multiple bitches? He's pimping
Love interest? he's cucking himself

 

[DuniX]

Love interest? he's cucking himself

The player would be cucking himself if he is Simping for her waifu.
Moral of the story, don't be a beta simp.

But on the more practical side for the NTR tag itself aka what could be argued as the "content" the game contains it should not apply.

 

[chainedpanda]

Hi All,

So playing JP visual novels for years, NTR plays are common for many games and it never bothered me. Then when I started to get interested in Ren'Py games, I became aware there were strong opinions on this outside of Japan. So anyway, here's a question:

In many JP trainer-style games, it's common for the main character to send out the female cast to get trained by basically getting gang-banged etc. Now, is this NTR? Because while the female character is technically a kind of a "love interest", the main character's goal from the outset of the game is to train and corrupt the female cast into becoming sluts. But by the end of the game, you may end up coupling with one of those "love interests".

There is no clear answer. For every instance of NTR, there is another opinion on what constitutes NTR.

In my opinion, this is an example of NTR. Regardless of rather she's already dating the protagonist, regardless of rather there is emotional damage, regardless of if the protagonist witnesses the gangbang, it's NTR. She is a romantic interest from the moment the game began. Additionally, the end game is to start a relationship with one of the love interests. As such, I don't care "when" the relationship starts. It's a game, not reality. If she's a love interest, she already belongs to the protagonist because she only exists for the protagonist. Full stop.

That said, if the end goal wasn't to be with this love interest, but instead train her as a prostitute or something, then no. It wouldn't be NTR but just a trainer game or something, but this isn't what you described.

My philosophy on NTR is this:

If the character is a love interest, and they have any sort of romantic or sexual interaction with another character during the story, this is NTR. Full stop.

 

[woody554]

if you send them that's sharing, not ntr. if they're taken from you against your will it's ntr.

 

[Uthuriel]

"I'm a pimp, not a cuck."

It's on the NTR bingo sheet.

 

[tanstaafl]

.....depends on how interested he is?
A callous bastard, no. Or multiple bitches? He's pimping
Love interest? he's cucking himself

This is just splitting hairs on NTR definitions. Netorare vs Netorase(cucking himself) isn't the issue. They're both NTR according to this site.

 

[jormungandrswe]

Sharing (whether swinging or "pimping them out") is not really NTR. There has to be an element of "Oh, he's better/bigger than you, he's more of a man", etc.

When people call consensual sharing NTR, they're usually doing the facile "oh you're a beta cuck simp" or whatever.

 

[tanstaafl]

When people call consensual sharing NTR, they're usually doing the facile "oh you're a beta cuck simp" or whatever.

Or they've been correctly referring to it as netorase, which is what it is. It has been called netorase for years. This site is what tries to incorrectly narrow it all down to one poorly defined tag.

 

[Meaning Less]

Or they've been correctly referring to it as netorase, which is what it is. It has been called netorase for years. This site is what tries to incorrectly narrow it all down to one poorly defined tag.

This is also wrong, because for it to be netorase you would need some sort of commitment first.

Pimping/training games have no commitment at all, the goal is to train/corrupt a random girl, it is more like a teacher-student relationship and less like a wife-husband one.

Now sure you could make a "wife training netorase game" but I don't think that's what op was talking about. It will depend on the specifics of each game.

 

[tanstaafl]

This is also wrong, because for it to be netorase you would need some sort of commitment first.

Pimping/training games have no commitment at all, the goal is to train/corrupt a random girl, it is more like a teacher-student relationship and less like a wife-husband one.

Now sure you could make a "wife training netorase game" but I don't think that's what op was talking about. It will depend on the specifics of each game.

Pimping would not be netorase at all. I should have been clearer, sorry. I was responding to the "beta cuck simp" part of the prevoius statement. Netorase is "willing cuck". Pimping, imo, is not being cucked at all except in the loosest definition of the term.

 

[woody554]

imagine if people went around arguing that "cuckolding and sharing are the same thing".

 

[snookums.d.panda]

While I might just be a simple, country weirdo who thinks that if you're going to use Japanese terminology one should stick to its associated definition, seeing as Japanese games are specifically mentioned I guess I can use this to fufill my NTR thread participation requirements (as noted in F95's TOS.)

So do I see this one as NTR? Nope, and it's mainly for 2 reasons:

1 - The actions outlined above are generally ones performed by Mr. Steal-yo-Waifu rather Mr. Stolen-Waifu, and any late game coupling going on is unlikely to be in the realm of an exclusive relationship on either side of it.

2 - Most proper definitions of Netorare I've read (including the one on

You must be registered to see the links

) are fairly specific on the emotional attachment aspect of things, particularly on the emotional damage Mr. Stolen-Waifu gets in the course of the story. So if you'll pardon my saying, if you take the time to purposefully train a quiet, demure lady into a wild, cock-craving slut, and then you start crying when she turns around to start acting like a wild, cock-craving slut? Well, I'd say that's more in the area of the Surprised Pikachu meme (or the Princess Bride's "Inconceivable!" one, if you're a fan of the classics) than of serious NTR.

And while I'm probably coming off as dismissive here, I'm just noticing that over time the emotional attachment aspect of things seems to be shifting from something being experienced by a character in the story to one being experienced by the player of the story. At least that explains some of the wild takes I've read in the years since NTR has become a thing, so that's my current running theory.

But what do I know? I'm just a simple, country weirdo after all.

 

[tanstaafl]

While I might just be a simple, country weirdo who thinks that if you're going to use Japanese terminology one should stick to its associated definition1

I gave up on this a long time ago, the people here don't care about any of the actual definitions, instead focusing on "what this site means when blah blah".

2 - Most proper definitions of Netorare I've read (including the one on

You must be registered to see the links

) are fairly specific on the emotional attachment aspect of things, particularly on the emotional damage Mr. Stolen-Waifu gets in the course of the story. So if you'll pardon my saying, if you take the time to purposefully train a quiet, demure lady into a wild, cock-craving slut, and then you start crying when she turns around to start acting like a wild, cock-craving slut? Well, I'd say that's more in the area of the Surprised Pikachu meme (or the Princess Bride's "Inconceivable!" one, if you're a fan of the classics) than of serious NTR.

I remember reading quite a while ago an article that had an amazing break down of the meaning of netorare and one of the defining qualities was "destruction of beauty" or "destruction of something beautiful" in an emotional sense, I've even pointed it out here before, but no one cares. As I said, they merely care about what this site says/thinks.

 

[Obscure]

Only if her heart moves. The dividing line between NTR-like things and actual NTR things is when the girl falls out of your influence.

But some people are pretty sensitive and will complain regardless.

 

[Slamjax]

And while I'm probably coming off as dismissive here, I'm just noticing that over time the emotional attachment aspect of things seems to be shifting from something being experienced by a character in the story to one being experienced by the player of the story. At least that explains some of the wild takes I've read in the years since NTR has become a thing, so that's my current running theory.

This is probably the passage that makes the most sense to me, and helps to explain some of the "illogical" takes I've been hearing about netorare that didn't reconcile with my understanding of it. People seem to be projecting themselves into the shoes of characters that they're not meant to be in. But it also makes clear that even though a game is made with a protagonist that is clearly not the player and has their own looks, attitudes and backstory, the player will naturally project themselves into the role of that protagonist.

 

[JustXThings]

NTR just doesn't mean the same for everybody. It's one of these concepts that has evolved a lot and lost a bit its flair.

I usually stick to the definition of the people who are explicitly looking for in NTR games. Some vanilla guys will call NTR some really ridiculous things, but since they are not looking for NTR, who cares how they call it ? If I recall, the definition of NTR in site uses this approach.

The kind of games you are describing are power play games. The format might be trainer, story-wise, rpg or any other. Many times it involves a female protagonist being corrupted into some sexual deviant, since the internal thinking of the female is very important in a corruption game. There are other power play games which don't involve female internal monologues, they are still power play, but more a male orders and female obeys kind of thing. There it is just the action that matters, the internal struggle of the female is unimportant.

So, no. Power play is not NTR. NTR moves around the idea of a male being hurt by its love interest. Whether that happen because she is a slut that fucks everything that moves, or because a "better" man is corrupting the love interest doesn't matter. But there must be a male character being cucked the player can identify with.

 

[snookums.d.panda]

I gave up on this a long time ago, the people here don't care about any of the actual definitions, instead focusing on "what this site means when blah blah

Oh, I'm quite aware that it's an uphill battle in having this opinion on the matter (hence the self-deprecating "weirdo" barb), but it's something I still think needs to be mentioned every now and again. Not in efforts to convert those in the debate, but rather to give the odd lurker/passerby something to consider because of the whole vocal minority/silent majority thing the internet has a lot of. I do try to be a positive panda in these things.

... yeah, I've probably got about a year left before I just default to a "Well bless your cotton socks," style of response. Maybe two, tops.

Also, wouldn't happen to still have a link to that NTR article you spoke off, or at least the site name that hosted it? It sounds like an interesting read to be honest.