VN Ren'Py Completed Trans Goetia [v1.0] [Nadia Nova]

[lemonfreak]

Well here comes the debate, I give it about 3 pages worth before mods lock the thread.

Meh, I've said what needs to be said

 

[Icarus Media]

Meh, I've said what needs to be said

Is anything truly worth saying? Words are but words, the minute they are spoken, they die upon your lips. An ear that disinclines to listen, renders speech to be void.

For something to need to be said, is it not that people need to want to hear it?

 

[lemonfreak]

Is anything truly worth saying? Words are but words, the minute they are spoken, they die upon your lips. An ear that disinclines to listen, renders speech to be void.

For something to need to be said, is it not that people need to want to hear it?

Those that are willing to listen will benefit from the statement being made which justifies the comment

Those that aren't will always tell on themselves which also justifies the comment

 

[nackedsnake]

Depends how you look at it, a trans man (AFAB) who exclusively has sex with men could be considered gay whereas a trans woman (AMAB) exclusively having sex with women should be considered a lesbian. Unfortunately our language has yet to develop and evolve sufficiently to cover non-hetero normative individuals and relationships

That being said, from the description alone (not playing it as the bunny MC holds no interest for me) this should be tagged futa/trans protagonist and the gay tag should be removed

Is anything truly worth saying? Words are but words, the minute they are spoken, they die upon your lips. An ear that disinclines to listen, renders speech to be void.

For something to need to be said, is it not that people need to want to hear it?

It's not just Words. These Classification / Tags are used to help identify target audience.
In general,
Those seeking Gay porn are not looking for Futa / Trans contents
Those seeking Lesbian porn are not looking for Futa / Trans contents
Those seeking Futa / Trans porn are not looking for Gay/Lesbian contents
Sure there are crossovers, but that's a different topic.

You can't just use a wide net "Biological male have sex with Biological male = Gay Porn": logic is sound, but it server very little purpose.
If it's Futa, then it's Futa Porn; If it's Trans, then it's Trans Porn; If it's Trap, then it's Trap Porn.

 

[narnif]

Depends how you look at it, a trans man (AFAB) who exclusively has sex with men could be considered gay whereas a trans woman (AMAB) exclusively having sex with women should be considered a lesbian. Unfortunately our language has yet to develop and evolve sufficiently to cover non-hetero normative individuals and relationships

That being said, from the description alone (not playing it as the bunny MC holds no interest for me) this should be tagged futa/trans protagonist and the gay tag should be removed

The tags for these topics, in particular, have less to do with identity and far more to do with what equipment the characters have. It's not because of the language used, but how the characters are physically represented in the game/story/scene.

If I go any further than that, we move into the off-topic argument you've placed in that comment.

 

[PonderingPanda]

Depends how you look at it, a trans man (AFAB) who exclusively has sex with men could be considered gay whereas a trans woman (AMAB) exclusively having sex with women should be considered a lesbian. Unfortunately our language has yet to develop and evolve sufficiently to cover non-hetero normative individuals and relationships

That being said, from the description alone (not playing it as the bunny MC holds no interest for me) this should be tagged futa/trans protagonist and the gay tag should be removed

My point was that it appeared to be a MtF trans protag, with either cis or trans women love interests, which would qualify as "lesbian", perhaps, but not "gay."

The gay tag is exclusively for M/M.

 

[Krolarnin]

According to the Tag Rules for this site, the gay tag explicitly states that trans characters don't count. However the main character despite using female pronouns is completely (biologically) male for the entirety of what is currently available. That being said, there are only 3 sex scenes that are currently available. 1. MC Masturbates. Then you pick between two scenes with Fufu who is female. either 2. She gives you and handjob, or 3. she shoves your face in her panties.

So the gay tag will entirely depend on whether or not the MC has sex with a male before their magical transformation starts. However this is content that is not yet in the game.

So gay tag should be removed from the game because it is content that is not currently available and there is no argument on this. Future content is not to be represented in the tags (see tag rules linked above).

 

[cynicallmeback]

Shit like this needs to be submitted to psych journals for evaluation. Fascinating.

 

[PonderingPanda]

According to the Tag Rules for this site, the gay tag explicitly states that trans characters don't count. However the main character despite using female pronouns is completely (biologically) male for the entirety of what is currently available. That being said, there are only 3 sex scenes that are currently available. 1. MC Masturbates. Then you pick between two scenes with Fufu who is female. either 2. She gives you and handjob, or 3. she shoves your face in her panties.

So the gay tag will entirely depend on whether or not the MC has sex with a male before their magical transformation starts. However this is content that is not yet in the game.

So gay tag should be removed from the game because it is content that is not currently available and there is no argument on this. Future content is not to be represented in the tags (see tag rules linked above).

Futa/Trans is completely separate from gay tag. Even if there is content involving the trans character engaged in acts with males, the gay tag rules say explicitly " Not applicable to content involving transgender or futanari characters. "

If it applied, the gay tag would get flooded with trans content. Please don't.

 

[Krolarnin]

Futa/Trans is completely separate from gay tag. Even if there is content involving the trans character engaged in acts with males, the gay tag rules say explicitly " Not applicable to content involving transgender or futanari characters. "

If it applied, the gay tag would get flooded with trans content. Please don't.

Thats what i said? "the gay tag explicitely states that trans characters don't count".

However like someone else said, the only thing that the tags care about is what gender people are biologically, not what they identify as. And in this game you identify as female and use female pronouns, but you haven't actually started your transition into female so until your character learns their first spell to start turning into a female, any future content with another male will count for the gay tag. It only takes one scene for the tag to get put on (unfortunately).

However tags also say they only count for what's currently in the game and the only content in the game right now is either solo or with a female so the gay tag still needs to be removed.

 

[PonderingPanda]

Thats what i said? "the gay tag explicitely states that trans characters don't count".

However like someone else said, the only thing that the tags care about is what gender people are biologically, not what they identify as. And in this game you identify as female and use female pronouns, but you haven't actually started your transition into female so until your character learns their first spell to start turning into a female, any future content with another male will count for the gay tag. It only takes one scene for the tag to get put on (unfortunately).

However tags also say they only count for what's currently in the game and the only content in the game right now is either solo or with a female so the gay tag still needs to be removed.

The tag says trans characters are excluded, which means, regardless of if they're physically transitioned or not, they're not applicable for the gay tag, as they are still trans.

I don't see where it says a character only counts as trans if they are physically transitioned.

 

[Krolarnin]

The tag says trans characters are excluded, which means, regardless of if they're physically transitioned or not, they're not applicable for the gay tag, as they are still trans.

I don't see where it says a character only counts as trans if they are physically transitioned.

I don't think it is in the tags anywhere but that is how it has always been enforced. For example in Transfigure you start male but right after starting the game you get transformed into a woman by someone else. You still identify as male but end up having lots of sex with guys in your female body. No gay tag.

While not all porn is visual, the large majority of it is, especially on this site. If games were tagged just based on what people identify as, then the tag system would become entirely meaningless to everyone who doesn't care about trans content. For example I could release a game that follows the relationship of two female characters centering on lesbian sex. However say i make them both identify as male. We would have a game full of lesbian porn only with the gay tag. None of the gay people would be interested, and none of the people interested in lesbian porn would be able to find it.

The current tag system is far from perfect but that is how it currently works, and why it works that way. There is a new tag system being worked on which will solve a lot of issues like adding a ton of new tags and redefining others. You can check it out Here, but with what is currently available there is no solution that is going to appease everyone and how it works now appeases the most amount of people.

 

[PonderingPanda]

I don't think it is in the tags anywhere but that is how it has always been enforced. For example in Transfigure you start male but right after starting the game you get transformed into a woman by someone else. You still identify as male but end up having lots of sex with guys in your female body. No gay tag.

While not all porn is visual, the large majority of it is, especially on this site. If games were tagged just based on what people identify as, then the tag system would become entirely meaningless to everyone who doesn't care about trans content. For example I could release a game that follows the relationship of two female characters centering on lesbian sex. However say i make them both identify as male. We would have a game full of lesbian porn only with the gay tag. None of the gay people would be interested, and none of the people interested in lesbian porn would be able to find it.

The current tag system is far from perfect but that is how it currently works, and why it works that way. There is a new tag system being worked on which will solve a lot of issues like adding a ton of new tags and redefining others. You can check it out Here, but with what is currently available there is no solution that is going to appease everyone and how it works now appeases the most amount of people.

That example would not have a gay tag because trans characters are excluded from the gay tag by its definition provided.
" Not applicable to content involving transgender or futanari characters. " means that regardless of the identification of the character, it would not apply if they are trans/futa. The lesbian tag doesn't have that stipulation, but maybe that's an oversight?

Also that was quite a stretch of an example lol.

In Transfigure, I might argue that the character is still trans, as they are now a man in a woman's body. But seeing as it's a highly specific fantasy of "I'm a man who was transformed into a woman's body but I'm still totally a dude, and also I'm gonna bang dudes" that's a significantly more niche interest than general homosexuality. It's literally dancing on the edge of trans-ness or maybe gay coping so much it really sounds like it needs the tag.

EDIT: Oh cool, the tag got removed.

 

[Pink Chaos]

Who gives a fuck about all those arguments, anyways, this is a cute transgender lesbian game.