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Terminatorgames

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Nov 2, 2019
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BigIrishLug Night Hacker Terminatorgames
In regards of the GFX card. Is ram more important to DAZ than the GPU?
I am not certain. 3070 is faster but only has 8GB. The 3060 is slower but has 12GB. So either way i sacrifice something it seems.
In my opinion I would buy the 3060 just because of the 12GB and it's cheaper! I wouldn't even buy the TI models, if I'm not mistaken, they have less than 12GB and I'll explain why!
This works like this:
Imagine you have two 12GB 3060s running at the same time!
If the total scene memory (required GPU rendering memory) does not exceed 12GB, then the two work by complementing each other, rendering together!
Imagine you have a 12GB 3060 and another 8GB running at the same time and the scene needs 11GB, so only the 12GB 3060 will render while the 8GB is stopped!
Now imagine you have two 12GB 3060s and the scene needs 13GB, so neither will render and the rendering work passes to the CPU!
In order for the CPU to be able to render, you need to have a minimum of +++13,... GB of Ram on the computer, otherwise the DAZ will turn off and windows blocks!
I don't know if it's exclusive to windows 10, but in this windows, your computer can have, for example, 100GB of RAM, even if you only have 8GB! For that you can use the space of any hard disk or SSD as RAM memory additional!
Finally, let me just say that contrary to what you might think, if you use a joint rendering between a GPU and the CPU, it will take much longer than if it is done only by the GPU! This happens because of the exchange of calculations that exists between the GPU and the CPU!

The fact that you have two 8GBs GPUs running at the same time doesn't give you a total of 16GB of RAM but only the 8GB, so if you need to render a 12GB scene later on, you'll have to buy another one with 12 GB of RAM or do the render with your CPU!
Before buying the 24GB 3090 I saw a lot of reviews on youtube, especially those from GAMERNEXUS that covers everything in an engineering way! They said that 12GB would be ideal for gaming while the 24Gb would be ideal for work with 3D!
In fact, I've already rendered scenes in which the GPU used about 22 GB, without the scene being super loaded, so I tell you that More important than speed is the memory capacity!
And as you can see in my previous post, you always have the option to use the denoiser to speed up the rendering to record times, so RAM capacity is more important than speed! (THIS in 3D, not in Gamming)
 
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coffeeaddicted

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Apr 13, 2021
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In my opinion I would buy the 3060 just because of the 12GB and it's cheaper! I wouldn't even buy the TI models, if I'm not mistaken, they have less than 12GB and I'll explain why!
This works like this:
Imagine you have two 12GB 3060s running at the same time!
If the total scene memory (required GPU rendering memory) does not exceed 12GB, then the two work by complementing each other, rendering together!
Imagine you have a 12GB 3060 and another 8GB running at the same time and the scene needs 11GB, so only the 12GB 3060 will render while the 8GB is stopped!
Now imagine you have two 12GB 3060s and the scene needs 13GB, so neither will render and the rendering work passes to the CPU!
In order for the CPU to be able to render, you need to have a minimum of +++13,... GB of Ram on the computer, otherwise the DAZ will turn off and windows blocks!
I don't know if it's exclusive to windows 10, but in this windows, your computer can have, for example, 100GB of RAM, even if you only have 8GB! For that you can use the space of any hard disk or SSD as RAM memory additional!
Finally, let me just say that contrary to what you might think, if you use a joint rendering between a GPU and the CPU, it will take much longer than if it is done only by the GPU! This happens because of the exchange of calculations that exists between the GPU and the CPU!

The fact that you have two 8GBs GPUs running at the same time doesn't give you a total of 16GB of RAM but only the 8GB, so if you need to render a 12GB scene later on, you'll have to buy another one with 12 GB of RAM or do the render with your CPU!
Before buying the 24GB 3090 I saw a lot of reviews on youtube, especially those from GAMERNEXUS that covers everything in an engineering way! They said that 12GB would be ideal for gaming while the 24Gb would be ideal for work with 3D!
In fact, I've already rendered scenes in which the GPU used about 22 GB, without the scene being super loaded, so I tell you that More important than speed is the memory capacity!
And as you can see in my previous post, you always have the option to use the denoiser to speed up the rendering to record times, so RAM capacity is more important than speed! (THIS in 3D, not in Gamming)
So bottom line is ram is more important than speed. Which favors the 3060 with 12GB of ram.

Yes, swap. The slowest of ram. Not a good idea.
But if you would have two cards and connect them together, would that benefit the renders? From what i (thought) i understood is that one card is master, the other slave.
But i am not sure if DAZ would take advantage of the total amount of ram.
From your explanation it seems its not which is a shame.
In any case a card as low and old as the 3060 would be a huge upgrade already. And i would render mostly in HD the most. 4K, i don't even have a monitor for that.

This information is really helpful as i am really confused with GFX cards. There are sooo many.
 

Night Hacker

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Jul 3, 2021
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yes, Night Hacker, you are referring to rendering using Denoiser! Yes, I can render in 4K with the 3090 in about 40 seconds using Denoiser, but you know there's always a price to pay!
See the example below where both renders have the same definition and everything is the same, one with about 200 iterations (1 minute and a half) using the Denoiser and the other with about 18000 iterations (50 min) without the denoiser!
Notice the difference in details that exists between the two!
The use of the denoiser sweeps away the details of the skin and certain textures, causing a considerable loss of detail!
What I usually do is render with denoiser for animations and without it for simple renders!

Denoiser ON
View attachment 1882808

Without the Denoiser
View attachment 1882807
LMAO... you people can't even agree on how NOT to use it! Others say to never use it for animations and only for single renders. I don't see the difference in your renders anyhow, not enough of a difference to wait for almost an hour over. Thanks for proving my point about denoising anyhow.

Yes people, look at his renders and tell me it is worth it to wait an HOUR... that's honestly ridiculous. Especially when most people will glance at your image, either on here or in a game, and move on after only a brief view. They certainly won't have a magnifying glass examining the pixels to see how much detail you have. :LOL:
 
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Night Hacker

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Jul 3, 2021
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BigIrishLug Night Hacker Terminatorgames
In regards of the GFX card. Is ram more important to DAZ than the GPU?
I am not certain. 3070 is faster but only has 8GB. The 3060 is slower but has 12GB. So either way i sacrifice something it seems.
3D Rendering uses A LOT of VRAM, so go for the RAM. I got the 3060 with 12G (not the 3060TI as it also only has 8G) and don't regret it. I'm getting fast denoised renders which only take me 1-2 mins with full details turned on. VRAM is definitely more important in 3D rendering.
 

coffeeaddicted

Well-Known Member
Apr 13, 2021
1,828
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GPU card​
CUDA cores​
VRAM​
GeForce RTX 3070
5888​
8GB​
GeForce 3060-TI
4864​
8 GB​
GeForce RTX 3060
3584​
12 GB​
GeForce RTX 2070
2304​
8GB​

Vram will determine how much you can fit in to a scene
Cuda cores do matter as they are what Iray uses to do the rendering
I hope this helps in determining which cards can help you the best.
This does help. Though i wonder why they did not sell a 3070 with more ram. Shame.
So, i do need to make sacrifices one way or the other. If i render small rooms i think it should be fine. As i mentioned i am not even attempting to anything beyond HD and most importantly, its just for me mainly anyway. I just have fun with the software as i consider myself not good enough to do anything serious.

Thanks mate for the chart. (y)
 

Terminatorgames

Active Member
Nov 2, 2019
767
8,052
This does help. Though i wonder why they did not sell a 3070 with more ram. Shame.
So, i do need to make sacrifices one way or the other. If i render small rooms i think it should be fine. As i mentioned i am not even attempting to anything beyond HD and most importantly, its just for me mainly anyway. I just have fun with the software as i consider myself not good enough to do anything serious.

Thanks mate for the chart. (y)
The question is...
Why buy more expensive because of the speed if you're going to get less RAM capacity?
You can do the same render times with the 3060 as you do with the 3090, using the denoiser, just a few seconds slower!
But once you buy the 3070 because it's faster with less RAM, then you can't render scenes larger than 8GB with it!
This whole market is really geared towards gamming that currently needs more speed and less RAM!
For 3D Rendering it's the other way around...
 
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coffeeaddicted

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Apr 13, 2021
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The question is...
Why buy more expensive because of the speed if you're going to get less RAM capacity!
You can do the same render times with the 3060 as you do with the 3090, using the denoiser, just a few seconds slower!
But once you buy the 3070 because it's faster with less RAM, then you can't render scenes larger than 8GB with it!
This whole market is really geared towards gaming that currently needs more speed and less RAM!
For 3D Rendering it's the other way around...
From my pocket, the 3060 fits the bill.
So i tend to agree. I am not an expert or anything and i think there are reasonable arguments for a better card by minimal more amount of money.
Either way, its a plus for me. And yes, more ram is usually always a good thing to have. Plus it is more fun if you can use the software more probably with the right brand of card. I am usually a cheap ass when it comes to hardware. Expect my keyboard. :rolleyes:
 

Terminatorgames

Active Member
Nov 2, 2019
767
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From my pocket, the 3060 fits the bill.
So i tend to agree. I am not an expert or anything and i think there are reasonable arguments for a better card by minimal more amount of money.
Either way, its a plus for me. And yes, more ram is usually always a good thing to have. Plus it is more fun if you can use the software more probably with the right brand of card. I am usually a cheap ass when it comes to hardware. Expect my keyboard. :rolleyes:
If you want to clarify all your doubts I advise you to look for the Gamernexus channel on youtube and see the reviews they make with the different GPUs together!
You will see that for Gamming they prefer speeds but for 3D they certainly prefer VRam and productivity/price!
 

Night Hacker

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Jul 3, 2021
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This does help. Though i wonder why they did not sell a 3070 with more ram. Shame.
So, i do need to make sacrifices one way or the other. If i render small rooms i think it should be fine. As i mentioned i am not even attempting to anything beyond HD and most importantly, its just for me mainly anyway. I just have fun with the software as i consider myself not good enough to do anything serious.

Thanks mate for the chart. (y)
I think the 3060 came out after the 3070 did, which would explain the lower VRAM in it.
 

coffeeaddicted

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Apr 13, 2021
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12 GB but the cincher is the 10,240 CUDA cores. I told myself if I ever built another rig from scratch, I wanted a render rig.
My compromise for gaming versus rendering; Strix X570-E, 64GB CL16 RAM, Ryzen 9 5950x, and the 3080 TI FTW card.
It might looks impressive in print, but it's still on the amateur side. The Pros are knocking down the door with a rig like;
Asus ROG II Zenith Extreme Alpha (sTRX4), 256GB CL14 RAM, AMD Threadripper 3990x with two RTX A6000 (drool)
I only back small rolls. So to me that sounds pretty impressive. The pro's. well they do have the cash.
 
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Night Hacker

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Jul 3, 2021
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12 GB but the cincher is the 10,240 CUDA cores. I told myself if I ever built another rig from scratch, I wanted a render rig.
My compromise for gaming versus rendering; Strix X570-E, 64GB CL16 RAM, Ryzen 9 5950x, and the 3080 TI FTW card.
It might looks impressive in print, but it's still on the amateur side. The Pros are knocking down the door with a rig like;
Asus ROG II Zenith Extreme Alpha (sTRX4), 256GB CL14 RAM, AMD Threadripper 3990x with two RTX A6000 (drool)
12G AND 10K CUDA?! Sweet! I don't blame you. Nice system. I can't afford much and still have a Ryzen 5-2600 system I bought back in 2018-2019. But at the time it was fairly inexpensive to build with a 1050TI video card which has served me quite well. I had saved money for a year for a video card then couldn't buy one for a couple years, so the 3060 was it, but at 12G of VRAM I am not complaining. I figure I'll probably die before I upgrade again. LOL (money is very tight since my wife died).
 

coffeeaddicted

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Apr 13, 2021
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Sorry to hear of your loss. My misses and I just celebrated 30 years together, but five years ago we were in a fight for her life against ovarian cancer. I emphatically hate cancer.
I lost two cousins to cancer. Cancer is a bitch. So i emphasis with this problem. Myself wishes to part. Some things just don't belong.
Sorry for your loss Night Hacker.
You are all great mates. I wish i could drink with you :cool:
 

Terminatorgames

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Nov 2, 2019
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Well, it may not be the ideal card but i think it will be great. Just alone that i can "then" really take advantage of rendering. I hope i really do get a lot out of it. Since i never overclock, they should last.
Nice buy!
To finish, and not with the intention of being pessimist, did you watched the compatiblity with the motherboard! Does they have the same slots?
 
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Night Hacker

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Jul 3, 2021
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Sorry to hear of your loss. My misses and I just celebrated 30 years together, but five years ago we were in a fight for her life against ovarian cancer. I emphatically hate cancer.
Glad to hear she's still with you. My wife got cancer last year and she was dead in four months. Today (21st) has been nine months since she stopped breathing. Missing her a lot. I'm on here and other sites a lot to keep myself busy and my mind off her or I would be crying constantly. We were married 36 1/2 years.

The people in these forums help a lot to be honest. Great group of people.
 

coffeeaddicted

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Nice buy!
To finish, and not with the intention of being pessimist, did you watched the compatiblity with the motherboard! Does they have the same slots?

Thats my motherboard. It does have PCI-E. Isn't the card already older?
I did once buy a wrong case for my motherboard. Omg. But the GFX card should be compatible. At least i hope. I just bought it last year.
 
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coffeeaddicted

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Apr 13, 2021
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I am just curious. Terminatorgames how did you get to find out what assets were used in the game? Is that simple to do?
And i am not asking because i want to copy. As much as i like mom (whatever her name was) she is not my ideal. I am trying to craft women that look somewhat real.
Its quite a shame that this game went down the tubes. Sadly, its not that easy like in Sims where you have a slider that can make a character older or younger. With DAZ this takes really effort. I am heavily using at the moment tools like Aging and all kinds of Control apps.
So, even though both statements have not much in common with each other, i do admire the mom. She looks nice, because of her face. Though this may be a preset. Not sure.
Anyway, i was just curious because maybe there is something to be learned for me.