Yea, this was nice. I did interrupt my run because of some bugs, sadly, and can't wait to continue delving in the dungeon!
I do also appologize for the... essay. I did uncover a lot of small bugs and that could be nice QoL imo, so the post become super long.
Skill related bugs:
- See attached save. Spell does negative damage and heal the mob. I'm unsure if it's tied to seraphina's lowering the mob resistance too much, a bad state from previous run, or something else (to trigger the bug: just go into the dungeon & spell)
- Same save: using "pain" make spell do 0 damages instead of a negative amount (which is, better than healing the mobs, but not great)
- Sometime Ice Wall give zero shield. This did happen on a new dungeon diving run when ice wall was still on cooldown (mira did had her "put some shield at the start of the run" skill)
This did also happen when it break before expiring naturally (then reapplying do give a 0 HP shield sometime)
That may be related to the bug above too.
Other dungeon related bug:
- Mob with two effect on only show one of them in the log/only explain one of them.
- I had a boss encounter my hit for -2 damage (thanks for the heal I guess)
It was at floor 52, at 2.65 heat. The mob was a vengeful hungry abyss with49 attack ; my group had 66 atk, 34 def & shield on.
- This also happened with a "Fire, ruthless vengeful slime".
- Skill that have a % chance of giving you HP on kill (enchantress or boons) allow you to go above max HP
- Fountain event with a % of chance to succeed, and stealing HP pot do the same (put you above max HP)
- FIrecamp cap your HP to the max when you use them with above max HP
- Steal mana potion's tooltip say it gave 2 MP, only got 1 out of it
- half mana cost for pain is not displayed in the UI (as in: if you have the skill to make it cost 1 less mana when under half life). I'm also curious if it would work properly with the ice area
Upgrade bugs
- "Expanded archive" description seem wrong with the amount it give
- Emerald mastery requirement is bugged (need maelstrom instead of thorium forge (the node just above))
- weapon enchanter's sanctrum needs puzzle master instead of the node just above
- could not buy "luckier rune" (enchantress) with the node above either
- could buy the research tree upgrade without enough gold/put myself in the negative
Various bugs:
- Selling something use a price different than the displayed price (without skill).
Ex: "sell ore" say 1.0G each, I only got 288G while selling 300 ore (I assume there is some rounding?)
- Elemental reaction book is in the library before seraph talk about it (and before the tooltip than you nave new book there). That's not bad per see, but the message does really make you feel you unlocked a new book.
- guidebook sometime take time to refresh (I reached 8 HP using the enchantress, but couldn't complete the guidebook before opening the maid upgrade menu)
- Chest give can non-integer number of iron/plat (5922.57704 iron, 8188.485960000001 plat)
- Guild event : root out corruption : I couldn't get the reward, it was shown as "0 Days Left" instead of completed ; I also had "winter mine" completed, after picking the reward for this root of corruption was shown with 5 days left.
Suggestion on QoL improvement that would be really great, IMO:
Dungeon QoL:
- Showing the real shield amount instead of 9+ (since shield is basically your lifeline when mob deal more than your HP)
- Adding the display on how much a mob would deal damage (pretty important to know what you can or can do with your amount of HP/shield)
- Display if you have an element "loaded" for an elemental reaction somewhere
I have zero clue if element reaction last between different mob, or when you re go into the dungeon (I'm pretty sure I got a steam reaction by entering a dungeon)
I didn't test it extensively but that didn't seem super consistant. The only thing I know is I never really managed to do the freeze combo after ice wall ran out.
Simply having a display somewhere of "this is loaded for reaction" would help tremendously to understand the system.
- Keep the log of the last monster you've beat up. Again, this would help to figure what happen in the dungeon and what to do (I sadly don't think the screen is wide enough to keep the log visible in between fight)
- pain description is not super clear ; it's pretty hard to understand what it does exactly and how it would bump your damages
- I do not think there is any book that explain what dark reaction do with the rest of the skill (knowing dark + ice increase damage taken would be a nice thing to know)
- I appologize for Elite Greatter Yoggoth when you play as kane. It have so little attack compared to the mob I handled as lily I was close to die of laughter.
Out of dungeon QoL suggestion:
- Reworking the early challenge log so player are encouraged to grab mirabelle ASAP could help player with the dungeon part (since ice wall is pretty much required to go deep into the dungeon)
- Being able to see the price of locked upgrade would be nice. It would allow to plan better on what you can get with your current resources (and would allow to not have to save scum to check if you can take that upgrade path or not)
- Displaying something on upgrade you've maxed (like a star on it ; or alternatively showing currently/Max on every upgrade node) would help finding quickly what to upgrade are still available (and save some time un upgrading)
- Showing the ! for the city when you have thing to grab there on the "city" button on top of the screen could be great too (it only show when you open the map otherwise)
- Reworking the description of "Colossal forge" could be nice, since I don't understand it at all. Does it double your amount per day? Or do something related to your currently available ore?
In any case, having a screen that explain what you get out of in when you exit the dungeon could help too (and that show what every skill give you)
- Could firestorm be animated every turn too (as is lighting strike)
- Since your max mana is limited, adding a limit to deep dreamer too (mana regenration) could be an OK QoL (unless it is supposed to bump you above max mana, in which case I'll probably invest more in that skill)
Now onto more focused topics:
Ice wall!
It is still as strong as before, but since it's now "free"-ish to use, it leave some mana for other skill, which is great.
It also encourage you to use an elemental reaction here and there since you've got mana to spare and the wall already on, which is nice.
It is even more needed than before because of the heat: when mob start to quickly bonk you for way more damage you have HP, you want that ice wall on, and as much defense to have better wall HP & take less damage (def scaling is maybe a bit strong since it boost both the "hp" and reduce the damage taken)
The new working of ice wall have give the possibility to decide to take some damage to regen MP, which is a pretty great strategical option that sadly disappear quickly (with how fast the mob attack scale)
Putting bug and QoL about ice wall aside (sometime giving 0 HP shield, showing exact amount of shield & mob damage) ; I think it main downside right now are:
- it undermine the utility of evasion : since ice wall last two turn, evasion does nothing from the moment you need ice wall on up until the point mob can two shot your shield (which is a long part of the run) ; and after that it is not likely to save you for enough turn to matter.
- elemental reaction with ice wall are hard-ish to use: lots of them are CC, that are wasted if ice wall would not have broken if you didn't use them.
I tried to delay to do ice wall > hit > hit > bubble to maximize duration when i'm protected from the mob, but it does not work often (probably because I tried that on mob too weak / could not resist the full combo so I couldn't create the reaction)
After scratching my head for a while, the only solution to ice wall I could get would be: change it from "last X turn" to "disappear after tanking X hits"
- This make all evasion proc or CC extend the ice wall duration (since you don't get hit), which make them more worthwhile to purse (and is arguably a buff to ice wall)
- it would make monster that can hit multiple time (counter or hit twice) way more dangerous since they can break the ice wall early.
- By splitting HP and duration of the wall, it also offer other boon/skills opportunity, or even make the skill more flexible to use
Ex: "add Defense HP to your shield, up to 2x Defense ; add 2 hit until ice wall crumble, up to 3". This way people may want to use it multiple time to boost it defense and survive a hit ; or do ice wall > hit > ice wall to reach up the 3 time duration (and squeeze elemental reaction at various point of that combo)
Some boon/skill could increase max shield overall, how much hit it can tank max, or the current number of hit it can tank.
- If ice wall is changed this way, please make it obvious in the UI ! (how much hit it tank, and how much HP it have)
DoTs: Another big source of "oops you're run is ended now" were the mob DoTs.
First: they are brutal. If the damage is 0.5x atk of the mob, any dot at any level is likely a one shot (as long as I can't survive the mob attack without ice wall ON, any DoT encountered were likely a one shot)
If they are supposed to be "hit you as if the mob have half it attack", then it is may be a bug since I would expect most DoT to do only one damage in these cases.
If dot were lighter on the damage (like only 1, 2 or 3 damage) I would really like them since they do ignore shield. However when they one shot you they are a bit more on the frustrating side, and the fight become a "do you have enough MP to take out the mob without attacking? No? Thanks for playing"
On that note: is it intended paralyzed mob still does DoT damage?
Various point about balance:
- First, since defense both help take less damage, and increase your shield HP, I did assumed it was the best stat to invest in and go all in defense for a while. It did carry me really far and made for a fun run.
- Selling ore/crystals/enchanted crystal is pretty strong at the start of the game. With the forge existing and giving def/atk per level, I did literally sell all my resource to boost it, and it did work well, maybe a bit too well (there may be some imbalance between resources there, or their prices)
- Randomizing the price of buy/sell every time you go to town is not exactly fun, especially since you can just go manor > town > check price > repeat until you have the best available price. Having fixed price only would be better IMO.
- I have some doubt than % based attack/defense passive work as intended, but I didn't dig into the number so I am not sure.
In general, the game does not make it easy to check which give what stats, and to run the math and ensure it is all correct.
- Most skill that give buff for the first few turn of the dungeon (like the food, or early shield) does not seem super useful since dungeon become harder as the heat increase (you would want these boost at the end of the dungeon, not at the first). That may also be because i never was that under-leveled.
- Cost of skill that increase some resource by a few % are also hard to justify when you can buy a lot of the same resource by trading in town for the same amount of gold (here again, trade seems pretty strong)
- Bosses having less attack than the (heat booted) does not make them feel scary at all (it was the floor 30 fiend boss, and I didn't pay much attention to that after the fact)
- Loot per floor skills may need some tuning (since dive are potentially way shorter)
- reduced crystal cost also affect enchanted crystal / make the first level cost 0! Which is in a way nice, but don't feel good to have wasted enchanted crystal before getting these skill.
- I did not pay much attention to it, but I am not sure the heat scaling is tweaked in a matter that does sense right now. It feel the moment when damage do more than 1 HP, but less than your max HP is pretty short. I do not dislike that balance right now, but it may feel a bit extreme if you've not heavily invested in defense.
Maybe having heat add a flat amount of attack to the monster could work? (I do assume they add a %age of their attack, correct me if I'm wrong)
- On the upgrade kind of thing, piggybacking on my previous post, skill without level cap that are shared by most maid become quickly tedious to work with (you kinda have to check all maid to see where is it cheaper).
Alternative suggestion: having a single character on which the skill can scale without limit. Other character will get instead upgrade with a maximum level and other effect. (you will have one place to look at to dump the resources (which is way less tedious), and you have more choice on what to do with the resources)
And to finish: my impression: I do think the change bought in 4.x make the dungeon dive more fun.
They does not feel too hard, and now come to an end thanks to the heat mechanism.
Unlike before when they felt flat and than you could go on and on without effort, they now do feel a bit more like a challenge to go as deep as you can in one go, which is nice!
The moment where "oh damn that mob kill me, can I have something in my kit to pass that?" is OK IMO, and create mini puzzle here and there.
I would have liked if the mob difficulty were a bit more spread apart (so some mob ask for some brain power, and other are weaker/allow to regenerate a bit)
Out of my previous post i'll necro the two following suggestion:
2: idea on how to improve the dungeon "map":
- instead of choosing your next node, player could choose "path", made of multiple nodes.
- one goal here is to introduce some decision in which path to pick : "should I go safe with these easy fight, or that path with more chest and an optional super strong mob that may destroy me?"
- it would work way better with more node variety ; or at least various encounter difficulty
Since combat become fun enough/longer, I were actually less troubled by the choice of path. Nonetheless, I do think choosing longer dungeon path instead of a single node could be an interesting choice.
4: request: please add a "required dungeon mode"!
- What I mean by that is, when the player start their game, they choose to play either in the current mode, or in "dungeon needed" more.
- dungeon needed mode would tie the unlocking of events with dungeon progression, pacing the game not on the number of time they quit the dungeon, but the floor reached.
- (if player can unlock one hangout of their choice at given breakpoints, which allow them to pick the scene/character they want first, it'll be even better! Having a linear unlock order would already be great)
Since I do enjoy dungeon a lot nowedays, an optional mode that ask to engage with these would be really great for me!
