Virtual Girls TOO Realistic?

[Deleted member 3327602]

Dear F95,

Since man first used campfire coals to sketch his cavegirl to be, artists most of all want to draw as close to real life as possible. Jump ahead 60K years and man still feels this way. This is still about pencil and paint drawings, sure. But now also with digital multimedia--at least that's what I thought.

My friend Wei recently introduced me to a website based out of mainland China called ZodGame. Perhaps you have heard of this quite unique message board. Very exclusive, hard to register, and not easy to navigate IF you manage all of the above. And it is 100% in Traditional Chinese. I have had access now for nearly a fortnight. I have only been able to rise my "Level" from a fresh ZERO to Numero Uno. I also have 7 points, and 9 soy sauce so far. Despite the otherwise silliness at how ZG site owner earns bucky clicks(by way of their members having to watch ads for 10 seconds in order to get points and eventually rise in Level/rank), I am 100% addicted. I chomp at the bit each day just to go back and see if I can raise my level just a little higher--and hope against hope there is at least a cute, naked girl snap to win at the end.

Anyway, my reason for this post here is not to discuss Zodgame, it's meant to better understand why not one but three different Zodgamers have told me PATHOS characters were and I quote "too realistic". "

"Regardless of whether it is true or not, but this style of painting is really unappreciable."

" It's not necessary to be too realistic"

I was dumbfounded, people. Is this forum a horney horde of abstract expressionists? Are these guys jealous that someone uses an Illusion game to attain realistic characters, and they cannot? Do they need their eyes looked at? OR, is there in fact something wrong with mine??

On face, to me it's like saying "oh no, that girl is just too hot, or that car is just too cool for me to want to drive. I am sorry, but I just cannot bone that girl because her pussy smells too much like strawberries and not fish gut." But I may be looking at this all wrong. That's what I want to find out. This is where all of you guys come in.

This is one of our latest Honey 2 characters--based as you can see on the pornstar, Alison Tyler.



Let's critique this honey bunny a bit here. On first glance, I can see the snap of the person the Honey 2 character is derived. My eyes & brain then begin its comparison/contrast. I see the slanting brows & thick shadow about virtual Ally's eyes, how they do appear to correspond with how the real girl looks. Is this what you see, too? Assuming a yea, how about that body, hey? If you google Miss Tyler you will see she is a biiig girl, over 6 feet planted on a low heel. Her breasts are large--but really only so due to the natural proportion of her sizable frame. Her skin has thousands of little freckles painting it just like virtual Alison. And her waist may be the most exquisite set of "child-bearing hips" old Capn' Dios ever engineered. My eyes would likewise say the Honey 2 Alison factors math pretty well. That is, unless she's doing Chinese math.

We all know there are millions of humans on Planet Earth who walk around thinking whatever they consider themselves "physically" is the greatest thing to hit the big U, and everyone not cut from that cloth can go wipe their bums with it. Racists. The awful human ill that shall cure once the Vulcans decide to make first contact. Perhaps those Zodgamers who posted about Allie are just racist people? She's not a Chinese girl. She's just a girl. Racists are abound wherever we go, it is true. Unlike my parents teaching me I was a little boy when I first asked "What am I?", theirs made sure to tack on dichotomizing prefixes such as Indian little boy, or Japanese girl. A Haitian man, or an American. In my 26 odd years alive, I have found that despite complains people make about others being racist, not only is it they themselves who care about race, they actually enjoy considering themselves something more than what my mom taught me I am. And most of all, unfortunately, they eventually come to dislike any human not also privy to that especial designation.

I may never know what went on in those guys minds when they first saw our Ally. I may not wish to. Whatever to that, I am greatly interested in what you think about realism in art, and particularly in Illusion game character creation. I have known 10 dozen artists. Of that lot, the less skilled ones (those who were not yet able to draw, sculpt, paint in traditional classical realism) believe all forms of art is aesthetically perfect, and yet seem to generally look down on works that can literally stare back at you.

Have you ever noticed that about artists you know? Do you think artistic realism, and the venture to achieve it is wrong? And if so, for old Capn' Dios sake, will you please explain it to me?

Thanks for your time, F95!

Troy of AOP

 

[desmosome]

I actually read all that. Not really sure what exactly is going on... but I think you are saying that you posted that picture on some Chinese porn forums and they didn't like it?

I don't really know the art preferences of Chinese people, but maybe an assumption can be made that the forum you posted it comprises mainly of weebs who like anime. HS naturally has an anime style, and you managed to create a look that tries to be more photo-realistic.

Maybe you smoked some good pot and went on a philosophical adventure after this incident, but I think it's just different preferences present in different cultures lol. It's probably safe to assume that most of East Asia is used to seeing anime style art in 2D/3D porn.

 

[Adabelitoo]

I'm not quite sure of what I read either. Two things came to my mind.

1. Being realistic isn't necessarily a good thing or a turn on. Every game you can find here is just that, a game. A lot of times, the best part of a game is that it isn't real or realistic. Being specific on the graphic/aesthetic, Milky Touch is a game with "realistic"draws and has tons of players and support. That game isn't something that I would play. I find pretty much every 2DCG game on Latest Update much more arounsing than that style. It's just a matter of preferences.

2.

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[Hagatagar]

China has very strict pornography laws. Perhaps they don't want more realistic characters to avoid harsher punishments (in case they get cought).
Similar to F95 and Rule 7.



Overall, I don't think it's based on real racism, it's more like a cultural thing. China has kinda tight

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for females.

Spoiler: Something like this

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Doesn't they even have restaurants where women get discounts if they are considered Beautiful by an AI?

Whatever to that, I am greatly interested in what you think about realism in art, and particularly in Illusion game character creation.

The more relism one tries to put into Honey-Select-like-Illusion-characters, the more one moves away from their typical appearance.
And I think this is a rather good thing, because in my opinion most HS characters just look too similar.

However, at some point the characters reach the uncanny valley effect, this can make everything even worse. Since it's too close to reality, but not quite right, which can be pretty disturbing. Especially when it comes to animations.

 

[Catapo]

Objectively if I look at the image you posted I think it is amazing and I can hardly believe you managed that with Honey Select.

But I could see 2 reasons why I wouldn't like this art style and even consider it "too realistic"
1. Backgrounds - If you take this character and put in some scene in HS it is going to clash BADLY unless you can work the same magic on backgrounds.

2. Real Pornstar - you based your character of a real pornstar. You can see it even on this forum that games that use real porn images are liked only by certain groups.
An original character would have been more successful IMO.

Ultimately it is your artstyle so do what you want and screw what others think, you will find eventually people who would like it.

 

[Ayymao]

The character looks uncanny to me, but that's probably because she has the same blank facial expression on all poses.

 

[Losersriot]

An interesting topic. What is the final Ideal for Fine Art? Artificial intelligence + stereoscopic video naturalistic panorama. With the function of smells and touch. We haven't reached this ideal yet.

Therefore, all artists are divided into 2 categories: innovators and renegades. Cinematographers were innovators, artists with paints and brushes became renegades. They gave up the struggle to achieve the Ideal that the filmmakers brought closer. And then the programmers came. And then neural engineers.

Any art creator who uses DAZ or Honey Select 2 is a retrograde. Innovators are engaged in neural networks and deep fakes. They are looking for or creating NEW tools for a truly realistic rendering every day.

 

[F4C430]

First of all, racism and having a racial preference in a partner (whether real or imagined) are not the same thing. Otherwise it would be sexist if you only date people of one sex.

Secondly, there's nothing wrong with anyone's eyes in the sense that you use. It's just that people are different and like different things. This is a key point because i believe that the more detailed your models/renders are, the more likely it is to not match a person's preferences. I have no interest in Alison Tyler so seeing your model does nothing for me. In fact i'd just ignore that game thread as soon as i saw the screenshot. I do that a lot actually because i DON'T want characters that look real (i DO want realistic proportions, however). That doesn't mean there's something wrong with me or that there's something wrong with you. It only means that we like different things. The more realism you have, the more that fantasy is ruined for me and that's not what i want.

 

[anne O'nymous]

"Regardless of whether it is true or not, but this style of painting is really unappreciable."

As Adabelitoo implied, this one seem to refer to the uncanny valley.
Personally I found that there's something wrong with the example you posted. I don't know the girl, so don't care about how well represented she is. But what I know is that there's an effective, and disturbing, dichotomy between her baby face and her voluptuous adult body. It's unappealing, and can easily be felt unpleasant by some peoples ; especially since the said face is unnaturally neutral.

" It's not necessary to be too realistic"

What is also true. You can seek to 100% realism, but there's no reason for being more than "realistic enough" ; players will never believe that it's a true human that they are facing.
Plus, some can be disturbed by too much realism, because of the action they want to perform in the game. It's easier to give up to your rape fantasy when the girl is clearly a virtual puppet, than when you're wondering if it's a digital creation, or the photography of a real human.

I was dumbfounded, people. Is this forum a horney horde of abstract expressionists? Are these guys jealous that someone uses an Illusion game to attain realistic characters, and they cannot? Do they need their eyes looked at? OR, is there in fact something wrong with mine??

Have you took your medication ? More seriously, what are those questions ? (see bellow)

But I may be looking at this all wrong. That's what I want to find out. This is where all of you guys come in.

Oh yes, you are looking at this totally wrong. Among all the assumption you made, going as far as wondering if there isn't some kind of racism behind this, you just forgot the more elementary and obvious possibility:
Those peoples come from a culture that have nothing in common with yours, and it's totally natural, and expected, that they don't see the world, including 3D creations representing it, with the same eyes than you.

Racists are abound wherever we go, it is true. Unlike my parents teaching me I was a little boy when I first asked "What am I?", theirs made sure to tack on dichotomizing prefixes such as Indian little boy, or Japanese girl. A Haitian man, or an American. In my 26 odd years alive, I have found that despite complains people make about others being racist, not only is it they themselves who care about race, they actually enjoy considering themselves something more than what my mom taught me I am.

Amazing how you achieve to prove right your first sentence, by writing what just followed it, to finally explain the whole thing with the last sentence.
You were raised right, and they are racists because of the way their parents raised them. This is not a question you ask, there's not the shadow of a doubt in what you said. Not only you wrote this as if you're fully convinced that it's the truth, but you also assume that it's the only possible reason that can explain the lack of amazement when they look at your creation. And obviously, this is the fault of the others, yourself are nothing like them...

As said above, you totally forgot the cultural difference, but you also forgot that they don't share your ethnic origin. Studies all agree, the more someone looks like us or our parents, the more we will find this person attractive. And this is then enforced by the environment in which we grown up. It's easier to overpass this natural bias if you grown up in a multi ethnic society, than if you grown up in a mono ethnic society like China.
In the end, for them, a non-Asian girl will never be as attractive than she can be for you. And this have nothing to do with racism.

I may never know what went on in those guys minds when they first saw our Ally. I may not wish to.

Yet here you are, half expecting us to tell you what we think "went on in those guys mind when they first saw [it]". Else, you would have just asked your question, and your message would have been 5 lines long, instead of being a big complain about those idiots who didn't praised your creation, followed by a rushed question.

I have known 10 dozen artists. Of that lot, the less skilled ones (those who were not yet able to draw, sculpt, paint in traditional classical realism) believe all forms of art is aesthetically perfect, and yet seem to generally look down on works that can literally stare back at you.

Once again, the uncanny valley, and also the fact that, no, your creations aren't as realistic as you believe. They are near to look-alike (at least according to what you said of your example), what is something different.

 

[Icarus Media]

<Very long quote>

Anne are you okay?

Will you tell us if you're okay?

 

[anne O'nymous]

Will you tell us if you're okay?

I'll be fine, just need more sleep, and since a little too long.

 

[おい！]

Dear F95,

Since man first used campfire coals to sketch his cavegirl to be, artists most of all want to draw as close to real life as possible. Jump ahead 60K years and man still feels this way. This is still about pencil and paint drawings, sure. But now also with digital multimedia--at least that's what I thought.

My friend Wei recently introduced me to a website based out of mainland China called ZodGame. Perhaps you have heard of this quite unique message board. Very exclusive, hard to register, and not easy to navigate IF you manage all of the above. And it is 100% in Traditional Chinese. I have had access now for nearly a fortnight. I have only been able to rise my "Level" from a fresh ZERO to Numero Uno. I also have 7 points, and 9 soy sauce so far. Despite the otherwise silliness at how ZG site owner earns bucky clicks(by way of their members having to watch ads for 10 seconds in order to get points and eventually rise in Level/rank), I am 100% addicted. I chomp at the bit each day just to go back and see if I can raise my level just a little higher--and hope against hope there is at least a cute, naked girl snap to win at the end.

Anyway, my reason for this post here is not to discuss Zodgame, it's meant to better understand why not one but three different Zodgamers have told me PATHOS characters were and I quote "too realistic". "

"Regardless of whether it is true or not, but this style of painting is really unappreciable."

" It's not necessary to be too realistic"

I was dumbfounded, people. Is this forum a horney horde of abstract expressionists? Are these guys jealous that someone uses an Illusion game to attain realistic characters, and they cannot? Do they need their eyes looked at? OR, is there in fact something wrong with mine??

On face, to me it's like saying "oh no, that girl is just too hot, or that car is just too cool for me to want to drive. I am sorry, but I just cannot bone that girl because her pussy smells too much like strawberries and not fish gut." But I may be looking at this all wrong. That's what I want to find out. This is where all of you guys come in.

This is one of our latest Honey 2 characters--based as you can see on the pornstar, Alison Tyler.

View attachment 1433961

Let's critique this honey bunny a bit here. On first glance, I can see the snap of the person the Honey 2 character is derived. My eyes & brain then begin its comparison/contrast. I see the slanting brows & thick shadow about virtual Ally's eyes, how they do appear to correspond with how the real girl looks. Is this what you see, too? Assuming a yea, how about that body, hey? If you google Miss Tyler you will see she is a biiig girl, over 6 feet planted on a low heel. Her breasts are large--but really only so due to the natural proportion of her sizable frame. Her skin has thousands of little freckles painting it just like virtual Alison. And her waist may be the most exquisite set of "child-bearing hips" old Capn' Dios ever engineered. My eyes would likewise say the Honey 2 Alison factors math pretty well. That is, unless she's doing Chinese math.

We all know there are millions of humans on Planet Earth who walk around thinking whatever they consider themselves "physically" is the greatest thing to hit the big U, and everyone not cut from that cloth can go wipe their bums with it. Racists. The awful human ill that shall cure once the Vulcans decide to make first contact. Perhaps those Zodgamers who posted about Allie are just racist people? She's not a Chinese girl. She's just a girl. Racists are abound wherever we go, it is true. Unlike my parents teaching me I was a little boy when I first asked "What am I?", theirs made sure to tack on dichotomizing prefixes such as Indian little boy, or Japanese girl. A Haitian man, or an American. In my 26 odd years alive, I have found that despite complains people make about others being racist, not only is it they themselves who care about race, they actually enjoy considering themselves something more than what my mom taught me I am. And most of all, unfortunately, they eventually come to dislike any human not also privy to that especial designation.

I may never know what went on in those guys minds when they first saw our Ally. I may not wish to. Whatever to that, I am greatly interested in what you think about realism in art, and particularly in Illusion game character creation. I have known 10 dozen artists. Of that lot, the less skilled ones (those who were not yet able to draw, sculpt, paint in traditional classical realism) believe all forms of art is aesthetically perfect, and yet seem to generally look down on works that can literally stare back at you.

Have you ever noticed that about artists you know? Do you think artistic realism, and the venture to achieve it is wrong? And if so, for old Capn' Dios sake, will you please explain it to me?

Thanks for your time, F95!

Troy of AOP

Chinese artistic realism


You don't even compare in my book.

 

[Adabelitoo]

Chinese artistic realism
View attachment 1435671

You don't even compare in my book.

Kudos for being that good, but you can't compare a draw with something done on HS2. That's poinless from the very beginning.

 

[おい！]

Kudos for being that good, but you can't compare a draw with something done on HS2. That's poinless from the very beginning.

I wasn't the one talking about artists and HS2 in the same post, it was the OP of this thread. After all using Illusion assets is not art and not even in the same league in my book. The true artists are the people who created the assets in the first place and not the people who move some sliders about. It is the same for DAZ 3D, the asset/model creators are the artists, because without them there would not be anything to use.

 

[Adabelitoo]

I wasn't the one talking about artists and HS2 in the same post, it was the OP of this thread. After all using Illusion assets is not art and not even in the same league in my book. The true artists are the people who created the assets in the first place and not the people who move some sliders about. It is the same for DAZ 3D, the asset/model creators are the artists, because without them there would not be anything to use.

Then you're not an artist either. The true artist are those who created the software you use to draw. Even if you don't use any technological tool to draw, the true artist would be those who created the pencils/brushes you use. Why you ask? Because without them there would not be anything to use .

Sorry but that's just planly stupid. You're clearly talented, but if that's what you actually believe for "art" then I can't call you an artist at all to begin with.

 

[VegitoHlove]

Eh, I don't think/see any "Uncanny Valley" as a problem. "Too realistic." Like, what the fuck does that even mean?

I think it's fine. HS2 pic is fine, which may be funny/odd considering the fact I prefer drawn/rendered games over real-porn games by quite a lot. The summary of it is " Boobs are great."

 

[desmosome]

Then you're not an artist either. The true artist are those who created the software you use to draw. Even if you don't use any technological tool to draw, the true artist would be those who created the pencils/brushes you use. Why you ask? Because without them there would not be anything to use .

Sorry but that's just planly stupid. You're clearly talented, but if that's what you actually believe for "art" then I can't call you an artist at all to begin with.

Do you really think plug, our resident unfunny meme poster, drew that amazing artwork?

 

[Adabelitoo]

Do you really think plug, our resident unfunny meme poster, drew that amazing artwork?

I didn't even know that guy is plug. I haven't been here for a while, I didn't know what name he's using now.

 

[Deleted member 3327602]

Yes, Anne I do believe what I said about racism. You should also because while 2+2=4 is the only truly truth in the universe, my comments are true enough to begin healing the problem. If you teach your kids they are something more than little boys or little girls, they will inevitably become racists as adults, and carry on whatever Smurf-centric ideals/ignorance that go with your choice of prefix. If you don't, they won't. Go and measure it for yourself. Look at every person who is racially biased. Then look beside them to discover the family member who first barked the BS 100/100 every study. And while I concur with the plausibility that children might grow up & become more inclined to partners resembling those who raised them, this conjecture is no where near as black and white. Gay people, for example, adopt and raise perfectly healthy heterosexual adults. I am of Native American heritage, and I adore girls from Cali to Cebu City. Perhaps your dream is to one day marry your Dad. But I would never in a million years even date a girl my Mom thought was "just like her". That's how you roll, this is how I do not, and that's OK.

As for the topic, which was whether virtual girls being too realistic in modern/digital art is a bad thing, the bottom line here seems to be the same regards as my racism tangent. It simply depends on your eyes, your brain, your regional demographic, your life experiences, and to some it seems, whether the 3d honey makes you think of Mom. We're all different. We're all together. Now let's go have a party.

Thanks to all of you for your great comments! This helps alot!

 

[Deleted member 3327602]

Chinese artistic realism
View attachment 1435671

You don't even compare in my book.

I know, right!