Remplier

Member
Jun 16, 2018
120
179
Anyway, here's my constructive criticism not that anyone asked.

Classic case of the perfect being the enemy of the good.
I respect the devs' desire to make sure everything is perfect on release, but when they announced being done with adding content a few weeks ago, people (understandably) got excited for a release ASAP. They expected editing and debug to take only so long, and now that it's past the midpoint of September, they're getting impatient (which is not helped by the fact that the last update was 7 months ago). I think even the devs expected to have the release out by now, due to the wording of their Patreon refund offer (essentially "we're gonna be a teensy bit over the September 1 date, so it'd be kind of bs to charge you again").

Now I'm not saying they're scammers or dragging this out intentionally, in fact their transparency is part of why people are getting frustrated. The tracker is showing a much slower rate of progress than it did during the content addition phase, and while there may be plenty of work being done, it's easy to understand why people aren't seeing it that way. Additionally, part of the blame is because of that nasty Ren'py bug (that fortunately they were able to get a handle on quickly enough).

They do honestly seem like good people who do good work, trying their best. But yeah, I think they're making a misstep here by refusing to release anything until it's absolutely perfect. They've already acknowledged that the update has taken far longer than it should have, and now the polishing is taking longer than it should have. If it were me, knowing how long my fans have been waiting already, I'd have gone about it one of two ways:

1) Set a hard deadline for finishing polishing, prioritize tasks accordingly, and commit to that deadline (short of catastrophic bugs) and release. In said release post, I would mention why I released it a bit early, commit to a period of further bug fixing (including submitted bug reports by players) and release a bug fix patch later making it the "intended" state of release.

or

2) Release a somewhat polished beta build to Patreon backers (or people I trust), putting the product in the hands of the people who probably most want to play it (and somewhat crowdsourcing playtesting). It would inevitably get leaked here I'm sure, but if we ran into any issues, we'd have no room to bitch (given it's clearly marked as a beta build). I would continue to work on the release similar to scenario 1.

I think pretty much everyone would find either of those scenarios preferable to this drawn-out wait.
And anyone who uses the argument of "this is a pirate site, you have no right to complain", the game is completely free-to-play. There is no moral high ground here, asshole.
Agreed. In some industries it's called the project perfection syndrome. Essentially, a desire for utter perfection in its most idealized form adds more non-essential tasks to take care of, until scope creep happens. And scope creep is when you keep adding goals in order to meet either a customer's or your own changing needs, which can lead to delays.
 

Viressa

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2018
1,522
3,207
I think iterating over a release candidate, fixing all bugs that pop up and testing as you go until all known issues have been resolved, is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Used to be the bare minimum for how software was developed, back in my day. Besides, what we see is only the number of bugs being resolved, not the criticality of them: 1 bug quashed could represent a minor posing error that's purely cosmetic. Or it could be a game-breaking bug that makes the game impossible to complete.

Just come back in a week. You'll be fine.
 
Apr 3, 2019
170
136
Agreed. In some industries it's called the project perfection syndrome. Essentially, a desire for utter perfection in its most idealized form adds more non-essential tasks to take care of, until scope creep happens. And scope creep is when you keep adding goals in order to meet either a customer's or your own changing needs, which can lead to delays.
Exactly. After they do those bug fixing and fill up 100%, they will check again the whole game for bugs (according to their FAQ). This will just keep piling things up.
 
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whichone

Forum Fanatic
Jan 3, 2018
4,915
10,317
Agreed. In some industries it's called the project perfection syndrome. Essentially, a desire for utter perfection in its most idealized form adds more non-essential tasks to take care of, until scope creep happens. And scope creep is when you keep adding goals in order to meet either a customer's or your own changing needs, which can lead to delays.
That only applies if you have already have a product which is functioning well & therefore further tinkering becomes detrimental, where perfection is chasing a pipe dream.
Fixing bugs prior to release is done in order to achieve a product that is functioning well.
There's quite a big difference.
 
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Oregano696

Member
Feb 27, 2018
138
540
2) Release a somewhat polished beta build to Patreon backers (or people I trust), putting the product in the hands of the people who probably most want to play it (and somewhat crowdsourcing playtesting). It would inevitably get leaked here I'm sure, but if we ran into any issues, we'd have no room to bitch (given it's clearly marked as a beta build). I would continue to work on the release similar to scenario 1.
They already do this, some selected patrons on the Best Friend tier get to play test the update before release.

And anyone who uses the argument of "this is a pirate site, you have no right to complain", the game is completely free-to-play. There is no moral high ground here, asshole.
So what if the game is free-to-play? This isn't about having a "moral high ground", its about respecting the money people out there are pouring into the game. And right now the vast majority of these people are asking the devs to take their time and release the update and they believe its ready. Simple.
 

Jarcar

Newbie
Oct 6, 2018
96
67
The only thing that makes me wonder is that this last few % takes like 3 weeks. You guys are saying that they are working their ass off to deliver it and I do not doubt it. Still I wonder how long it will take to create the next update, when this one takes so much time at the end. I guess when it is finally released we will have some explanaition why it took so long. ''Magicnuts'' was quite active in this thread before, so after his work is done I believe he will have more time to talk with us.

Btw, can someone remind me what sex scenes we will have in upcoming update? As far as I remember it is going to be focus on this ''drunk elf'', right?
 

bingolebongo

Member
May 15, 2020
313
572
The only thing that makes me wonder is that this last few % takes like 3 weeks. You guys are saying that they are working their ass off to deliver it and I do not doubt it. Still I wonder how long it will take to create the next update, when this one takes so much time at the end. I guess when it is finally released we will have some explanaition why it took so long. ''Magicnuts'' was quite active in this thread before, so after his work is done I believe he will have more time to talk with us.

Btw, can someone remind me what sex scenes we will have in upcoming update? As far as I remember it is going to be focus on this ''drunk elf'', right?
Yeah, I'm pretty sure it went like this last time too. It's probably indicative of a normal development cycle, but obviously it's impossible to tell for sure since we have no insight. :)

The next update will have these scenes according to the latest update:

"There will be 6 sex scenes: five with Lana (a blowjob, a titjob, and three vaginal ones) and one with Simmone (handjob)."

(Lana is indeed the drunken elf.)
 

magicnuts

Member
Game Developer
Jan 24, 2019
336
7,114
- The update is not late. For it to be late, it will need to have a release date, something we didn't have until a few days ago when I said 0.5 will be released in September. The 3-5 month statement is followed by a qualifier indicating, reasonably, I think, that the actual time will vary depending on the update and the content. Why did we decide to offer a refund then? Two reasons: 1) because we wrongly assumed that some of our patrons may have missed that qualifier. Wrongly, because the number of patrons who actually requested a refund could be counted on the fingers of one hand. 2) I noticed we had many new patrons and assumed that some of those may have joined us as they saw the progress tracker nearing completion, and wanted to make sure they don't feel cheated by what I consider the normal procedure of developing our content (again, a wrong assumption as it turned out).

- I see an increasing number of people who claim to be patrons call us names, be rudely unhappy about our approach, and then disappear once I reach out to confirm their account and refund their pledges. The offer stands, and if you're dissatisfied with our approach, please get in touch with us on Patreon (or Discord if you have paired your account), and I will give any pledges you have made to us in the past three months (Patreon's limit).

- Most of the talk about 'perfectionism' misses the point that you or others probably wouldn't have liked the game enough to bother to post a message about it if it didn't have the degree of polish it has right now. Wanting us to rush the last and one of the most crucial stages of development is absurd and illogical for anyone who actually likes the game. You assume we're overly anal, but what we're doing is what we did for the last updates and what we will do for the future ones. It's okay not to like the way we handle the polish phase of our development, but I see the job we're doing right now as what differentiates an okay update from a good one.

- The progress has slowed down because we only mark the bugs being found and fixed, but testing and looking for errors still takes a huge amount of time. If anything, we're working more hours now than ever.

- The game is not extremely buggy to require so much debugging. It has nearly twice the number of words of the previous update, and all those words have posing, coding, images, etc. attached to them that may require extra fixes or changes. On top of that, since the main story update involves several other characters, we have had to go back and edit and test content from 0.3 and 0.4 to make sure they don't interfere with one another, and you can play them in any order and for them to still somewhat make sense.

- Are we adding new content during this final phase? Probably not, at least nothing major. That being said, I have no problem adding or cutting things if I feel it will give players a better experience. The update will be out in September, and we will make whatever decision we feel will improve the game before that.

- Will the content be amazing after all the wait? I hope so, but I cannot guarantee that since the content is not tailor-made to suit any individual. The 0.5 update focuses on the Main Story, and so if you're into the story and like Lana's character, I think you will enjoy it. If not, I suggest you adjust your expectations.
 
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