Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.05] [MagicNuts]

[kameohawk]

Best reason for the supporters to pay the developer per update and not monthly.
Is the developer delivering the goods? Yes! Brilliant, here's some money for your work, thank you; No update? Too bad, no cash for you...

patron /pā′trən/

noun

1. One that supports, protects, or champions someone or something, such as an institution, event, or cause; a sponsor or benefactor.
   "a patron of the arts."

You're not paying for an stated item when you sub to someone. You're basically giving them money for them to do whatever they want because you've seen what they do and like it. You're sponsoring them to do just that. The hope being that what they are doing is something you'll like at the end of it, but this isn't a business transaction of pay x and get y. You're giving them money. You're not commissioning them to make a game. You like the cut of their jib, so to speak.

It's is not Patreons job to police them. They simply fascilitate this. It's up to the individual to go "hey I like what you're doing but you're helluva slow so I'm gonna stop"

 

[J_M]

Valid points all around.
However there is one thing to support a valid project and a totally different thing to pay a scammer. And like it or not, there are far more scammers than actual projects developers.

F95 is the best prof you can get. How many new games are published here per day? And how many of those projects gets to see the version 2? Most of these guys are hope sellers. And crowds are paying those "hope sellers" and nobody can protect them in their naivety. Not that I care about these people; what are they doing with their money is their own problem.
The public encourages scamming and I see now way to enforce common sense in such environment.

My problem is there is no way of filtering a proper project from the scummy ones.
At least F95 tags some of the projects with the "Abandoned" yellow tag, as is the case of this game.

 

[ScionDayne]

Anyone else get similar vibe Soulgasm has to What a Legend, at least in style and visual presentation?
https://f95zone.to/threads/soulgasm-alpha-v0-0-11-thatwashot-cptpopcorn.200723/

I think you may have something here. Good looking out.

 

[Rolo]

Curious: How does everyone find his favourite games, how do you select them.

I mostly look into the F95 update page ("latest updates"). There I find games which are updated right now. I dl may be 2 to 20 every day (graphics, review points, screenshots), but - after playing for a minute or 5 - I get really into with only 1 of 200.

No chance to find abandoned ones like that (little chance for games which are not updating often). Finished games also not.

Sometimes I look for keywords /tags.
If I find an abandoned game which suits me I play. Having no ending doesnt bother me if I like the project.

Other times I look into the TOP 100 list. You get it with "Filtered - Sorting - Weighted Rating". There is a star.
With this I get finished ones (as well as good but abandoned), and games which are rarely updated.

Btw. "What a Legend" is no. 20 right now (remembering no. 1 a few years ago).

 

[hoshimota]

patron /pā′trən/

bro you misspelled cuck

 

[ogapetape]

First of all, I must say I love this game. I really do, and I have supported it in the past for little over one year. When the authors announced, they want to do relatively frequent updates (about every 3 months or so), it seemed like a reasonable approach. They however changed that somewhere after v0.4 and since then it is going really south.
The frequency of updates has steadily declined (3months -> 5months -> 7months -> 10months -> 20monts (still unreleased))
And while I do understand, that sh*t can happen, the speed of development does not seem reasonable at all. I have a feeling, they have fallen into the same trap like Summertime Saga, which has so called "tech update" under work for years now.

I really think that when some game gains enough supporters, the goal of the devs and the patrons actually become opposite. Patrons want the great game continuation and devs want the chicken to lay the golden eggs as long as possible, i.e. they have zero motivation to quickly deliver. This is why there is so few finished great games.

Really sad, that this has happened to this game as well..

What a well thought-out analysis of the state of the game. Can't wait for the same 3 users to hop into this thread and tell you why you're wrong and toxic.

 

[moskyx]

Valid points all around.
However there is one thing to support a valid project and a totally different thing to pay a scammer. And like it or not, there are far more scammers than actual projects developers.

F95 is the best prof you can get. How many new games are published here per day? And how many of those projects gets to see the version 2? Most of these guys are hope sellers. And crowds are paying those "hope sellers" and nobody can protect them in their naivety. Not that I care about these people; what are they doing with their money is their own problem.
The public encourages scamming and I see now way to enforce common sense in such environment.

My problem is there is no way of filtering a proper project from the scummy ones.
At least F95 tags some of the projects with the "Abandoned" yellow tag, as is the case of this game.

That's a very questionable take. I'd say that most new devs aren't hope sellers but naive, hopeful wannabes, and they clearly outnumber both scammers and actual project developers. They simply don't even imagine the amount of work and skills required to create a successful game. They are simply not ready to deal with all the issues that arise in terms of time and resources needed to develop a proper game, and also the real-life challenges that you'll have to face in the meantime. And they just quit at the first bump in the road, as soon as they realize this job is way more demanding and way less rewarding than they initially thought. Thanks to

You must be registered to see the links

you can see how much money the +7k adult games devs are getting on Patreon, and only about 20% of them are earning more than 100 bucks per month, which I'd say makes for a very poor 'scam', considering the effort needed to get those bucks. Less than 600 devs are earning more than $1,000 - I'm sure you'd find many 'proper' projects within that range of earning. But those crowds you mention that are paying these 'scammy devs' simply don't exist, because most people are smart enough to wait and see if the dev seems really committed to their project before supporting them. Sure, some people will jump to support any interesting v0.01 project they find, hoping their support will encourage the dev to keep going, but most of those projects with barely any supporters just die at a very young age from starvation and lack of proper planning. And that doesn't make them a scam.

There's no magic solution to your problem, the only way to filter proper projects is to wait and see, and support only well-established devs with a solid track record (like Icstor was, mind you). Or just go find finished projects on Steam or Itch.io and pay for them. Or just throw a few bucks to people whose creation you've just enjoyed and don't hesitate to immediately unsub, or at the very least unsub at the first warning sign you freely choose to apply to your 'investment'. But again, remember that a dev not matching your expectations doesn't equal a dev perpetrating a scam.

 

[cboz27]

Why is this marked as Abandoned? According to the developers website and patreon it looks like they're still working on it.

 

[YouShallNotLol]

Or just go find finished projects on Steam or Itch.io and pay for them.

Ironically, this method not only the best, but was also the only way to publish and sell games.
But then shit like patreon/kickstarter got popular, and the disastrous consequences we're seeing right now.

In an alternate timeline where patreon never existed, What A Legend would've released as a complete game. With a single price tag of something like 40$. And everyone would have been happy.

 

[YouShallNotLol]

Why is this marked as Abandoned? According to the developers website and patreon it looks like they're still working on it.

Because there were no updates for alost 2 years now. Per F95 rules, it warrants abandoned tag.

 

[Rolo]

Ironically, this method not only the best, but was also the only way to publish and sell games.
But then shit like patreon/kickstarter got popular, and the disastrous consequences we're seeing right now.

In an alternate timeline where patreon never existed, What A Legend would've released as a complete game. With a single price tag of something like 40$. And everyone would have been happy.

I guess, in this alternative timeline, WAL would be never released and even never started (like a majority of other games).
In case one has not rich parents, who will finance the living of a dev during his time he is working on a game?
A bank ? --- Hehehe.
So, thanks to "shit like patreon" we get a lot of games (some of them excellent), which we never would see without that "shit".
_________________________________

And whats about finding such a game (like WAL)?
I found and played it at F95, then supported it a while at patreon.
Who would like to buy a game like WAL for 40€ ?
I never would. I would not even know about it.
Ok, if someone puts a lot of extra money into marketing, I might get to know about it,
but still would not spend such money.

I am really grateful that patreon exists (and gives a chance to devs).

 

[J_M]

snip

Just a question if you please, just to make you I understand you properly:
Are you telling me that there are no scammers, trying to make an easy buck, off a porn starving game market?
Just some unlucky and sometimes lucky wannabes?

Ok, bonus question, do you think a solution to filter scams - sorry, poorly managed projects - is to buy them and see for oneself whether the project is scam or not???

 

[YouShallNotLol]

I guess, in this alternative timeline, WAL would be never released and even never started (like a majority of other games).
In case one has not rich parents, who will finance the living of a dev during his time he is working on a game? A bank --- Hehehe.
So, thanks to "shit like patreon" we get a lot of games (some of them excellent), which we never would see without that "shit".

Nah, fuck off. A bunch of college friends started Microsoft in some woman's rented garage. Not to mention hundreds of quality indie games getting complete releases, without leeching off of donations or publishers.

Money means nothing if you're actually aiming to create a quality product.

 

[J_M]

So, thanks to "shit like patreon" we get a lot of games (some of them excellent), which we never would see without that "shit".

I agree with you that Patreon truly helps developing ideas and infant projects and I am appreciative towards them because of that - with several reserves, or course.

 

[YouShallNotLol]

And whats about finding such a game (like WAL)?
I found and played it at F95, then supported it a while at patreon.
Who would like to buy a game like WAL for 40€. I never would. I would not even know about it.
Ok, if someone puts a lot of extra money into marketing, I might get to know about it, but still would not spend such money.

Finding games is so hard precicely because the market is flooded with shitty scams and abandoned projects.
And regarding the price tag, I have a counter argument. How many hundreds of dollars have you spent on it via patreon? I think much more than mere 40 bucks.

 

[FreelancerFL]

Something Unlimited update released yet again before MagicNut got his update out.
womp womp

 

[Rolo]

Finding games is so hard precicely because the market is flooded with shitty scams and abandoned projects.
And regarding the price tag, I have a counter argument. How many hundreds of dollars have you spent on it via patreon? I think much more than mere 40 bucks.

I take it that you are serious about that question, so I will answer seriously:

Last 36 months I spent about 150 to 180€ for Patreon. Thats for more than a dozen games.
Means thats about 10€ average.

Difference is: I support what I know. And what I like, coz I played it. And I stop when I start to like it less.
Games I pay full price in one sum ... money is gone.
_________________________________________________

Since I have very little money for living, my more valuable support is to help devs developing: beta-testing, proof-reading, suggestions for future updates ... many things ... That might be more help than 1 or 5€ per month.

And I love to contribute with help to games I love, having some influence on the direction of development.
Cannot do that much, when I buy a finished product !

 

[moskyx]

Just a question if you please, just to make you I understand you properly:
Are you telling me that there are no scammers, trying to make an easy buck, off a porn starving game market?
Just some unlucky and sometimes lucky wannabes?

Ok, bonus question, do you think a solution to filter scams - sorry, poorly managed projects - is to buy them and see for oneself whether the project is scam or not???

No, for sure there are some scammers out there. However, I did say that amateur, hopeless devs outnumber both scammers and proper devs. You, on the other hand, said that there are far more scammers than proper developers - and I honestly doubt it, since scammers wouldn't aim at getting $100 at most if they are lucky -they'd need to be extra lucky AND offer a really nice game to get more money. A low-effort game won't give them even 10 bucks, so I think this 'scam model' is just not worth it.

Re: bonus question; no, I never said that. We are on a pirate forum for a reason, and that reason is to try those games for free before spending a single dollar on them -either because it's a convenient download bay or because we just don't feel comfortable paying a dime for unfinished projects. Since we can never know for sure if the dev of a certain game is a scammer or not, one of the possible solutions when we find a good game here (or a good prospect of one) is to wait a bit, maybe two or three updates, and see if the dev is in this for real or nah, checking how often and how clear they communicate with their fans, seeing if it seems to be a properly designed game plan or if that awesome v0.01 was only a result of a bright idea with nothing else to back it - or even a try at scamming. Then analyze all of that and make your funding choice (and, as always, stop pledging the very exact moment you start to get second thoughts, there's no point in dragging it on). And a different solution would be to just accept that this dev may be a scammer anyway but, if you liked the game enough, wasting 5 bucks on it won't hurt you that much even if there's never a v0.02 after that. It's all about different mindsets.

 

[FreelancerFL]

Why is this marked as Abandoned? According to the developers website and patreon it looks like they're still working on it.

F95 has a rule if there's no update for 18 months it gets flagged abandoned. This has been reiterated several times now, once MNuts pushes the next update, the first in almost 2 years mind you, it will update.

 

[kameohawk]

Valid points all around.
However there is one thing to support a valid project and a totally different thing to pay a scammer. And like it or not, there are far more scammers than actual projects developers.

No I totally get you and 100% agree but the onus is on the supporter to know they're being dicked. The issue being there will be people who have bought into it so much they can't imagine it coming to nothing. Pretty much why Summertime Saga is ridden with simps who seem to think any delay or ordained by the almighty.