Ren'Py Abandoned What a Legend! [v0.6.04] [MagicNuts]

4.70 star(s) 448 Votes
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DemiMaximoff

DemiMaximoff

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Jun 10, 2018
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reees754 said:
Daaaaaaang!

You just posted the second most interesting thing in this thread! (Xupuzulla still with the most eyeopening one :) )
First time the dev can be seen at work + moving brushes + time needed!!!! Wow!

That means one simple thing: Now it´s easy to calculate how much time was spent on the paintings in the update, one can easy interpolate how many paintings were made per week in the i guess 2 years till this update comes out.

If you slow the video down by the factor 8 then normal working speed shows up, easy to see when moving the brush and choosing in menus etc. That means that painting was finished in about 2 hours! While i think a talented painter with a vision, experience and determination could finish it easily in about 30-45 minutes, this is not the point here. If the dev works like that (and didn´t slow it down on purpose) its fair to count with 2 hours per painting.

Meaning if the dev was honest that they´re working full time on it, then that should amount to around 80-100 unique paintings per months --- emphasis on UNIQUE, not like just moved the hand position a little bit on the next painting where most of the background, body position etc. is the same or used some copy/paste tricks from another painting.

So no matter what you think of the dev, an honest judgement of their work ethic can be made once the update is out.

It wont be me, but somebody will count the unique paintings and then we´ll know if the dev was honest or if he was misleading people.

Well anyways, as i said, very interesting video, finally something with substance. Thumbs up from me.

Edit:
Ooops, i just saw Art is clocked at 310, hmmmmm......... judging by that my former assessment that an update should take 3-4 months was a very good guess! :cool:
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Now that's a dangerous line of thinking. You gotta remember, humans are not assembly machines. Nobody can make art at a rate of more than 1.5 drawings per day, while maintaining that level of quality, and specificity of use case.
 
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reees754

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Jul 17, 2021
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DemiMaximoff said:
Now that's a dangerous line of thinking. You gotta remember, humans are not assembly machines. Nobody can make art at a rate of more than 1.5 drawings per day, while maintaining that level of quality, and specificity of use case.
Click to expand...
How did they do it on the initial updates then?
But whatever, ok, lets continue my dangerous thinking, shall we? :)

Lets not count with your 1.5 drawings a day. Lets count even lower at just 1 drawing a day, still should have been finished in 10 months max. with the 310 Art pieces.

And don´t forget as its very important: the devs claim they´re working "full time" on it. With "Full time" they should have clarified that it means working for 2 hours not every day but every second day - that´s their effective output.

Hehehe, come on man........, if you don´t have your judgement clouded, it´s pretty clear what´s happening here.

There´s no need to sugarcoat it.
 
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fusibile87

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Jun 28, 2020
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Even if the analysis is accurate, art was never a problem. Art was finished months ago, even considering the fact she had two children and surgeries. But according to the dev, the update will need at least another 2-3 months.
So always telling that high-quality art takes time to make, that she had children, yadda yadda, means nothing. She was able to deliver all the art in time. It's the other part of the game which is missing. Either the other dev sucks at coding, or it's scamming.

Oh wait, apparently he is disgusted by his own work and that's why he doesn't wanna work fast... but he'll keep getting your money!
 
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Rolo

Rolo

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Jul 14, 2017
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fusibile87 said:
... Oh wait, apparently he is disgusted by his own work and that's why he doesn't wanna work fast... but he'll keep getting your money!
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He only keeps the money of those who want him to keep their money.

Ppl who do not like to support any more (coz they feel they get less than they pay) just stop supporting.

Ppl who do not support anyway have no reason to complain.
And even worse: no reason to complain about that he takes money of other ppl who actually want to support him.
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And about "game is abandoned": For me this tag looks funny, but I dont care anyway, coz the real followers see the progress of the game on discord - not only in a progress bar graphic, but also in daily communication, which seems real.
 
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DemiMaximoff

DemiMaximoff

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Jun 10, 2018
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reees754 said:
How did they do it on the initial updates then?
But whatever, ok, lets continue my dangerous thinking, shall we? :)

Lets not count with your 1.5 drawings a day. Lets count even lower at just 1 drawing a day, still should have been finished in 10 months max. with the 310 Art pieces.

And don´t forget as its very important: the devs claim they´re working "full time" on it. With "Full time" they should have clarified that it means working for 2 hours not every day but every second day - that´s their effective output.

Hehehe, come on man........, if you don´t have your judgement clouded, it´s pretty clear what´s happening here.

There´s no need to sugarcoat it.
Click to expand...
My goal isn't to defend the devs, I know they're taking almost double of what can be considered a reasonable time. But at the same time, your initial calculation was goofy. You can make a point about the devs slacking off without making up imaginary skilled artists who churn out 80 fully rendered artworks in a month
 
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reees754

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Jul 17, 2021
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DemiMaximoff said:
My goal isn't to defend the devs, I know they're taking almost double of what can be considered a reasonable time. But at the same time, your initial calculation was goofy. You can make a point about the devs slacking off without making up imaginary skilled artists who churn out 80 fully rendered artworks in a month
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This dev was working effectively max 1 hour a day on the Art, despite giving the impression that he works full time on it.

But thinking about it you kinda have a point. I´m very good at my job too and i´ll go to my boss and tell him i cant work more than 1 hour a day too to keep the same quality of work.

I expect him to accept it and of course pay me for the 8 hours a day i worked before.

;-)
 
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moskyx

moskyx

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It may also be one of the first documented cases of reverse psychology applied to scamming... Every time someone in discord says they hope to play the update soon, the dev comes out and says the update will take more time and asks to rein in expectations. Instead of going radio-silence for weeks or claiming 'the update is around the corner', they post a daily chart that you're free to believe or not, but that explicitly says to anyone with half a functional brain that things are moving slowly. Do you think any potential supporter would chip in just now, having that info? I wouldn't do it. Don't you think a few current supporters choose to stop pledging everytime a message like this comes out? If I were a supporter, I wouldn't be exactly thrilled by it. Devs have lost around 20% of monthly income since the last update's peak, and understandably so, yet the smartasses here keep yelling 'scam' into the pirate void. Oh, well, after reading yesterday that devs might be tax evaders too 'because you gotta have critical thinking', I guess everything is possible.
 
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_Gaalec_

_Gaalec_

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moskyx said:
It may also be one of the first documented cases of reverse psychology applied to scamming... Every time someone in discord says they hope to play the update soon, the dev comes out and says the update will take more time and asks to rein in expectations. Instead of going radio-silence for weeks or claiming 'the update is around the corner', they post a daily chart that you're free to believe or not, but that explicitly says to anyone with half a functional brain that things are moving slowly. Do you think any potential supporter would chip in just now, having that info? I wouldn't do it. Don't you think a few current supporters choose to stop pledging everytime a message like this comes out? If I were a supporter, I wouldn't be exactly thrilled by it. Devs have lost around 20% of monthly income since the last update's peak, and understandably so, yet the smartasses here keep yelling 'scam' into the pirate void. Oh, well, after reading yesterday that devs might be tax evaders too 'because you gotta have critical thinking', I guess everything is possible.
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I see you cannot forget it, and still protect people who changes rules and update dates. I really don`t understand why another opinion for you cynical. Also, idk what is your benefit protect it? If creator makes REAL content, he will continue make REAL content.
About pirates "void". Pirates "void" have freedom speak and have open mind, on discord server, i am sure, you will ban every person like me, that begin think different and stop be adept that believe his creators.
I am write here this, because i see many good creators, good guys, аor example whom working with 2 works (main and 18+ game develop), or creator that earn 200-300$/per month, and they didn`t complain. They can make really GREAT content, but haven`t support. And also i see game with good budget, without dedline, strange news, changes rules, still looooong working, "support" accounts that protect it. And they don`t stop take money from patrons. Of course it is weird.
Also, when someone ask you something different from your opinion, you just say "half a functional brain" and "Cynical thinking". This is not seriously.
About not pay taxes: 1) Open Interpol website 2) click search 3) write "Spain" there 4) Profit. Watch and you will undertand how much crimes are there, financial too. Who are make a crime? Aliens? And this is civil Evrope. It is for exemle. Stop believe what all people are the Saints.
 
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moskyx

moskyx

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_Gaalec_ said:
I see you cannot forget it, and still protect people who changes rules and update dates. I really don`t understand why another opinion for you cynical. Also, idk what is your benefit protect it? If creator makes REAL content, he will continue make REAL content.
About pirates "void". Pirates "void" have freedom speak and have open mind, on discord server, i am sure, you will ban every person like me, that begin think different and stop be adept that believe his creators.
I am write here this, because i see many good creators, good guys, аor example whom working with 2 works (main and 18+ game develop), or creator that earn 200-300$/per month, and they didn`t complain. They can make really GREAT content, but haven`t support. And also i see game with good budget, without dedline, strange news, changes rules, still looooong working, "support" accounts that protect it. And they don`t stop take money from patrons. Of course it is weird.
Also, when someone ask you something different from your opinion, you just say "half a functional brain" and "Cynical thinking". This is not seriously.
About not pay taxes: 1) Open Interpol website 2) click search 3) write "Spain" there 4) Profit. Watch and you will undertand how much crimes are there, financial too. Who are make a crime? Aliens? And this is civil Evrope. It is for exemle. Stop believe what all people are the Saints.
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Look. The same right you have to openly criticize devs who don't work according to your standards, I have it to defend them if I consider they aren't doing the things you claim they are doing. I'd also like other devs to be earning way more money than they are getting, and that's why I try to help them by translating the games I like (check the thread in my signature and, apart from WaL and CoBD, you'll find some criminally underrated and underfinanced games), but you won't see me in other succesful games' threads accusing their developers of some wrongdoing without any other proof than some half-assed assumptions -which is all we are seeing here from 'your' side. Of course I'm going to call out that kind of shitty behavior, as harshly as I see fit. Take a look at some users' posting history, they basically only post in here. That's not honest.

You talk about games with deadlines (WaL never had deadlines since 0.3), strange news (having a baby and a surgery are weird news?), changes rules (what rules?), long working periods (that in WaL's case is updated daily so that everyone can extrapolate data when choosing whether support these devs or not, with the dev basically telling people not to expect the update soon so no one can say they are being misled). And yes, they haven't paused pledges. If this is all you can find against them, I think it's a pretty mild offense. But it's OK, it's your choice, and your opinion. Just remember that not believing devs doesn't mean you are right on your assumptions about their evilness, an people are free to contest those assumptions.

About the tax fraud, of course crime exists. There are even worse crimes you could have also mentioned, I guess. But most of people here in Spain and in most other countries aren't vicious criminals nor tax evaders, so the 'logical' thing to do would be assuming these devs aren't either. If you are so distrustful of strangers to even mention that possibility in a game's thread, totally out of the blue, I think there's no need to further comment on it. That's cynical.

Finally, since I saw many people interested in the last few days, I wouldn't ban anyone in Discord because I don't have that power (in that server, only devs can ban users). My job there is just offering help to people who experience issues with the game and remember them about the server rules when posting content or talking to each other. In the few cases someone comes in criticizing the game or complaining about the lack of updates, all we mods can do is to replicate the same info you can find here, which is the info shared by the devs. Everyone can join in and see for themselves, you included. Of course, I can not assure you won't be banned by the devs if you come in implying they are liars, slackers or even tax evaders.
 
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fusibile87

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Jun 28, 2020
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Rolo said:
No its not.
Numbers go e.g. from 1047 / 1062 (98.6%)
to 1050 / 1064 (98.7%)
This means they find new things to do, while the % do not move much.
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Sooooo... as long as the numbers increase, that 2% can require months, if not years? The final 2% can take longer than the initial 90%.
Yep, sounds like a scam. "Oh, this month i don't want to work. I will increase the numbers and still collect patreon money. Maybe i'll work next month".

TREXrg said:
He is disgusted with his work?
does this mean he hates the game or he hates the code?
Click to expand...
I was joking. A guy said this update was taking so long because the dev is disgusted by the idea of feeding his children with money acquired thanks to porn.
 
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mindcrawler

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Oct 4, 2020
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First of all, I must say I love this game. I really do, and I have supported it in the past for little over one year. When the authors announced, they want to do relatively frequent updates (about every 3 months or so), it seemed like a reasonable approach. They however changed that somewhere after v0.4 and since then it is going really south.
The frequency of updates has steadily declined (3months -> 5months -> 7months -> 10months -> 20monts (still unreleased))
And while I do understand, that sh*t can happen, the speed of development does not seem reasonable at all. I have a feeling, they have fallen into the same trap like Summertime Saga, which has so called "tech update" under work for years now.

I really think that when some game gains enough supporters, the goal of the devs and the patrons actually become opposite. Patrons want the great game continuation and devs want the chicken to lay the golden eggs as long as possible, i.e. they have zero motivation to quickly deliver. This is why there is so few finished great games.

Really sad, that this has happened to this game as well..
 
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4.70 star(s) 448 Votes