Ren'Py Abandoned What a Legend! [v0.6.04] [MagicNuts]

[Evangelion-01]

It also helps knowing how their workflow is. They plan, they do, they keep adding things until a point where they have a 'complete' build, then they start editing it. Which sometimes involves creating new artwork to replace the original. It's all in the faq in this very same thread OP.


Now, who's being dishonest here, these devs who explained at least 3 years ago how their workflow is, or those who simply don't care about those explanations and can't be bothered to read the available info before throwing their accusations?

You expect total strangers to blindly believe into the words of other strangers?
Let's be honest here... on the Internet words are not only cheap, more than often they are falsely at work... an experienced surfer believes in actions not words and in that regard the Devs are more than lacking sadly.
True the last Update had an extremly long playtime even though the story wasn't as good as the previous ones (personal opinion).
Don't get me wrong I really like the game despite this being a sandbox VN which is normally not the game I play, still with this long of a development time they lost any reputation they had build in the years before, even if they announced longer and longer development times, people will tend to think they payed enough cash and attention to a game stuck in it's development phase for this long without any noticeable Update... seing videos of art being created isn't really assureing as you can't tell wether it's the main art which should have already been done or refined art and filler art to make transitions smoother.

I'll just quote the dev on this (he posted this on Discord, on July 2nd):


So yeah, your second conclusion seems kind of right, with this situation taking its toll on the quality of their work and leading them to major editing work after completing the initially planned content. As always, once the update is out we would be able to judge if this was such a complex quest or not. And then, when they focus on the next update, without the baby issues and with their lessons learned, we'll see if things go back to the previous normalcy and your first conclusion can be definitely ruled out.

Baby issues will never be completly gone... depending where they live it can be that the daycare will be closed 3 days a week (disease of kids and caretakers), lack of personal and revolting ones since pay isn't high enough, etc.
...The only thing that will change is the reason they can blame their lack of time to... well haveing a child that has a fixed sleeping scedule atleast should reduce that fatigue I gues.

 

[caviarkush1]

Once we finally get the update, we'll play it for an hour then wait another 2-3 years for Holly

 

[Mordikay]

Once we finally get the update, we'll play it for an hour then wait another 2-3 years for Holly

I'm a time traveler from the year 2132.

I'm sorry to inform you 0.8 was finished in 2062 with community voted femboy, reverse genderfied, blue hair and nosering character named Tommy. My grandson is still waiting on the 0.9 Holly update.

 

[PPeters98]

I'm a time traveler from the year 2132.

I'm sorry to inform you 0.8 was finished in 2062 with community voted femboy, reverse genderfied, blue hair and nosering character named Tommy. My grandson is still waiting on the 0.9 Holly update.

You criminal, if you were a real timetraveler, you would have supplied us with a mega link to 1.0 version at least.

 

[moskyx]

You expect total strangers to blindly believe into the words of other strangers?
Let's be honest here... on the Internet words are not only cheap, more than often they are falsely at work... an experienced surfer believes in actions not words and in that regard the Devs are more than lacking sadly.
True the last Update had an extremly long playtime even though the story wasn't as good as the previous ones (personal opinion).
Don't get me wrong I really like the game despite this being a sandbox VN which is normally not the game I play, still with this long of a development time they lost any reputation they had build in the years before, even if they announced longer and longer development times, people will tend to think they payed enough cash and attention to a game stuck in it's development phase for this long without any noticeable Update... seing videos of art being created isn't really assureing as you can't tell wether it's the main art which should have already been done or refined art and filler art to make transitions smoother.

Even if this is mainly a porn forum, I expect people to behave like rational adults. And so I expect people to take all the information available before judging. I'm not asking to blindly believe other strangers' word, but to make rational judgments after closely following the process (as I've done since 0.1 came out). And in this case, everything the devs said had always matched the outcome (and, most of times, they've actually underpromised and overdelivered). Now we all are watching the same signs, and it's up to every one of us to decide if those signs point to some unethical behavior or not. I honestly think that everything checks out so far, and even if you just don't trust devs' word because this is the internet and words are cheap and you have had bad experiences in the past, I don't think in this case you could find a single 'bad step' that couldn't be explained for the exact reasons the devs have stated (and punctually communicated to their actual supporters): they've always said they need to create new art in the polishing phase so why would people think this time is different, or why would people disregard so easily the effect that taking care of a newborn 24/7 can have over a creative work that wasn't brilliantly planned, as the devs themselves admitted. Sure, there can be other ill-born reasons too, but the ones officially given do check out.

So after seeing all this, people can still double down this take on devs being some extremely careful and refined scammers, or can at least show some caution before jumping to conclusions, giving them the benefit of the doubt just in case, and at least until the update is out. And that's my stance, I'm just sharing the info I think could debunk those claims so that other people can judge if it sounds reasonable enough, as it sounds to me. If someone makes what I think it's a wrong assumption, I point out why it's wrong using the available info and some logic. No one here is spending a dime on the game, and won't ever need to pay to enjoy the game, so I can't understand what exactly triggers people so much that they choose to join the scam train instead of being more accepting of those seemingly reasonable explanations. What can I say, maybe '12 Angry Men' impacted me more than others, but I'd feel slightly bad about myself if I were accusing some innocent people. And yes, I don't know if they are actually innocent, but what if?

 

[vks017]

We would all like to give them the benefit of the doubt.
However rational adults also look at overall trends. In this sector, adult VNs, there is a massive trend of devs working hard at first to get a steady following. Once this is achieved many here then reduce their work rate massively being content to cash in on their well earned followers. This has happened too often, citing every health/personal issues under the sun to become a recurring theme here.
So its come to the point where we are more likely to doubt than trust in cases like this. I would love to be proven wrong but the evidence here is not strong enough to do so yet.

 

[moskyx]

We would all like to give them the benefit of the doubt.
However rational adults also look at overall trends. In this sector, adult VNs, there is a massive trend of devs working hard at first to get a steady following. Once this is achieved many here then reduce their work rate massively being content to cash in on their well earned followers. This has happened too often, citing every health/personal issues under the sun to become a recurring theme here.
So its come to the point where we are more likely to doubt than trust in cases like this. I would love to be proven wrong but the evidence here is not strong enough to do so yet.

We'll soon™ see

 

[Evangelion-01]

or why would people disregard so easily the effect that taking care of a newborn 24/7 can have over a creative work that wasn't brilliantly planned, as the devs themselves admitted. Sure, there can be other ill-born reasons too, but the ones officially given do check out.

Actually that's what most puzzling... they never halted their Patreon and put the game onhold since there was no time for developing as you said yourself Babies normally have no concern for their Parent scedules or plans.
You have high trust in the devs so you assume the best... the people being vocale right now however seem to be the opposite, so assumeing that they didn't put any work in the last 1,5 years to raise their child is not unreasonable at all... the problem noone can tell as we weren't there, we can only make our own assumptions.

So after seeing all this, people can still double down this take on devs being some extremely careful and refined scammers, or can at least show some caution before jumping to conclusions, giving them the benefit of the doubt just in case, and at least until the update is out. And that's my stance, I'm just sharing the info I think could debunk those claims so that other people can judge if it sounds reasonable enough, as it sounds to me. If someone makes what I think it's a wrong assumption, I point out why it's wrong using the available info and some logic. No one here is spending a dime on the game, and won't ever need to pay to enjoy the game, so I can't understand what exactly triggers people so much that they choose to join the scam train instead of being more accepting of those seemingly reasonable explanations. What can I say, maybe '12 Angry Men' impacted me more than others, but I'd feel slightly bad about myself if I were accusing some innocent people. And yes, I don't know if they are actually innocent, but what if?

You are actually jumping to conclusions yourself here... why do you think none of their Patrons or EX Patrons are around here?
You yourself are the perfect example that people donating can still be interested to this thread... I do it myself with other Threads/games I support.
Don't get me wrong I am not accuseing them myself, but I point out that this discussion got more heat by the minute so this is my attempt to bring some reason back into this topic.
I do feel this long time is strange, but I am not invested enough to actually care, I am just worried that this trend will eventually kill the game

 

[DemiMaximoff]

make rational judgments after closely following the process (as I've done since 0.1 came out). And in this case, everything the devs said had always matched the outcome (and, most of times, they've actually underpromised and overdelivered)

Doesn't matter. People change. I did not have ball hair until I was 12, doesn't mean that my parents should assume that I still don't have it, even if they knew me since day 1.
The project took birth in the pandemic, as per the dev's statements, and the pandemic's far gone. They changed. That should be the educated assumption here, instead of 500 words long Moskyx X magicnuts fanfiction.

 

[moskyx]

Actually that's what most puzzling... they never halted their Patreon and put the game onhold since there was no time for developing as you said yourself Babies normally have no concern for their Parent scedules or plans.
You have high trust in the devs so you assume the best... the people being vocale right now however seem to be the opposite, so assumeing that they didn't put any work in the last 1,5 years to raise their child is not unreasonable at all... the problem noone can tell as we weren't there, we can only make our own assumptions.

The thing is that they always said they were working, just slower. The progress tracker reflected that, and there were WIP pics and videos posted. So if they were working at a pace their patrons were perfectly aware of, why should they pause their Patreon when 1) paid leaves are a thing; and 2) they didn't even take an actual leave, as they never stopped working altogether? Patrons who weren't happy with this new reality just walked away, some patrons who were willing to support that slower phase stayed around until they just got tired of waiting, and many other patrons are still there because they trust devs enough. Then of course people can assume no work has been done for 1.5 years but some assumptions are clearly more informed than others.

You are actually jumping to conclusions yourself here... why do you think none of their Patrons or EX Patrons are around here?
You yourself are the perfect example that people donating can still be interested to this thread... I do it myself with other Threads/games I support.

Yeah, my bad. Maybe there are still some Magicnuts' supporters around here, although I'm not seeing many of them as of late and that's why I said that 'no one here is paying a dime'. I've never been one of those donors, though, since I tend to support devs with way fewer patrons.

 

[shazba jnr]

Even if this is mainly a porn forum, I expect people to behave like rational adults. And so I expect people to take all the information available before judging. I'm not asking to blindly believe other strangers' word, but to make rational judgments after closely following the process (as I've done since 0.1 came out). And in this case, everything the devs said had always matched the outcome (and, most of times, they've actually underpromised and overdelivered). Now we all are watching the same signs, and it's up to every one of us to decide if those signs point to some unethical behavior or not. I honestly think that everything checks out so far, and even if you just don't trust devs' word because this is the internet and words are cheap and you have had bad experiences in the past, I don't think in this case you could find a single 'bad step' that couldn't be explained for the exact reasons the devs have stated (and punctually communicated to their actual supporters): they've always said they need to create new art in the polishing phase so why would people think this time is different, or why would people disregard so easily the effect that taking care of a newborn 24/7 can have over a creative work that wasn't brilliantly planned, as the devs themselves admitted. Sure, there can be other ill-born reasons too, but the ones officially given do check out.

So after seeing all this, people can still double down this take on devs being some extremely careful and refined scammers, or can at least show some caution before jumping to conclusions, giving them the benefit of the doubt just in case, and at least until the update is out. And that's my stance, I'm just sharing the info I think could debunk those claims so that other people can judge if it sounds reasonable enough, as it sounds to me. If someone makes what I think it's a wrong assumption, I point out why it's wrong using the available info and some logic. No one here is spending a dime on the game, and won't ever need to pay to enjoy the game, so I can't understand what exactly triggers people so much that they choose to join the scam train instead of being more accepting of those seemingly reasonable explanations. What can I say, maybe '12 Angry Men' impacted me more than others, but I'd feel slightly bad about myself if I were accusing some innocent people. And yes, I don't know if they are actually innocent, but what if?

I'd say your judgements are clouded by your love of this game.

A rational, objective person would look at the condition of this episode's delivery and say, "That's excessive". And it is. Two whole years have passed, plus they've been polishing and debugging the game for around 2 months now.

Most ethical developers who use Patreon typically suspend transactions when life seriously gets in the way of their development. Has that happened in the case of WaL?

If it has, then there can be no argument from anyone, things got in the way of development, they didn't charge anyone during that period, and now they're back on the job they can start taking money again.

However, if they continued to take money for the entire two years, while clearly not working on the project in the same capacity as the past episodes, a lot of people are going to see that as somewhat dishonest.

When the episode comes out, we're not going to see two years of serious development, and we probably won't even see one year of serious development, because that's nowhere near how big previous episodes were.

In the end, it's just a game. No one here should be getting too worked up about it taking so long, and nor should they be getting too worked up about other people getting too worked up.

Move along, just a game with an excessive delivery time, nothing to see here...

 

[DemiMaximoff]

nothing to see here...

Literally

 

[moskyx]

I'd say your judgements are clouded by your love of this game.

A rational, objective person would look at the condition of this episode's delivery and say, "That's excessive". And it is. Two whole years have passed, plus they've been polishing and debugging the game for around 2 months now.

Most ethical developers who use Patreon typically suspend transactions when life seriously gets in the way of their development. Has that happened in the case of WaL?

If it has, then there can be no argument from anyone, things got in the way of development, they didn't charge anyone during that period, and now they're back on the job they can start taking money again.

However, if they continued to take money for the entire two years, while clearly not working on the project in the same capacity as the past episodes, a lot of people are going to see that as somewhat dishonest.

When the episode comes out, we're not going to see two years of serious development, and we probably won't even see one year of serious development, because that's nowhere near how big previous episodes were.

In the end, it's just a game. No one here should be getting too worked up about it taking so long, and nor should they be getting too worked up about other people getting too worked up.

Move along, just a game with an excessive delivery time, nothing to see here...

See, I mostly agree with you here. Two years it is excessive, and even I won't deny that (I did when we were at the 1.5 years mark, but not anymore). I'll only state once again that I feel there's nothing wrong with them not pausing their Patreon when they have told their supporters back on October 2022 they wouldn't be able to keep the same pace as before so that everyone could make an informed decision about keeping their support or not. Why they should stop getting money from their past work when they are still working on new content, just slower, and everyone is aware of these new 'terms and conditions' and can check daily the actual development pace and adjust their expectatives accordingly? Just let their supporters vote with their wallet. They've lost about 20% of their monthly income, that's a big hit even if they are still earning a comfortable amount.

So, that aside, I'm just sad this kind of message is not usually aimed at those who don't move along because they are too engaged on their crussade against devs. All the subtext I read around here is 'moskyx should keep quiet and let us insult and make fun of devs, patrons, and him'.

 

[Deleted member 5561147]

No updates for two years and there are still people that pay them money. Absolutely astonishing.

 

[Kisama33]

No updates for two years and there are still people that pay them money. Absolutely astonishing.

It could be worse, they could be paying them with your money.

!!!QUICK CHECK YOUR BANK ACCOUNT!!!

 

[fusibile87]

WOW this is the closest we are going to get with this guy almost admitting the devs fucked up and the Gomira big update was a terrible idea,especially with a baby coming.

It worked perfectly for them. 2 years of income without working.
Also, Gomira is the biggest update... right now. Don't worry, this will change too in future updates. "Oh yeah, i changed my mind about Simmone's update, i want to expand her quest and make it the longest sidequest, even longer than Gomira. That will require another year of "polishing". But hey, it's gonna be epic!"

 

[Xupuzulla]

It worked perfectly for them. 2 years of income without working.
Also, Gomira is the biggest update... right now. Don't worry, this will change too in future updates. "Oh yeah, i changed my mind about Simmone's update, i want to expand her quest and make it the longest sidequest, even longer than Gomira. That will require another year of "polishing". But hey, it's gonna be epic!"

Im going to be honest i dont even remember who Simmone is
I been waiting to play a new save for the past two years....

 

[user256398963265]

Im going to be honest i dont even remember who Simmone is
I been waiting to play a new save for the past two years....

Daughter of the lord with lock on her pussy. If you think about it, how she taking shit with that? Maybe my grandchildren will find out in the longest sidequest.

 

[DredgenVayn]

One day these devs will break into your home and massacre your family. The next day, you will be on this forum explaining how your family might have deserved to die, and the devs did nothing wrong

What does the progress report say? Art 100%. What does their patreon sneak peak show? Drawing completely new pictures. Dishonesty, clear as day

Gonna play Devil's advocate a bit here. Do the sneak peeks say it's for the current update, or the update after?

This isn't me defending, but checking if the peeks say what version the art is for.

 

[Kirel]

All the sneak peeks are for 0.7, the upcoming Gomira chapter. They haven't done any art yet for 0.8, as far as I know; they're focusing on getting 0.7 out the door.