Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.03] [MagicNuts]

[Tlaero]

While that future is certainly possible, it would be much more helpful for people to post advice on how to keep it from happening rather than posting assertions that it's already happened.

Tlaero

 

[Clobbertime]

this is a perfect boomer comment I forgot where I was lol, reads like a newspaper comments section.

phone bad, tech bad, youth bad, old good...

I never said tech was bad. I enjoy it a great deal myself. It's the people letting it make them soft. It's not the phone's fault the person using it walks into a wall because he's giving all his attention to the phone and not where he's going.

 

[bogodit]

You shouldn´t take the impatient ones / doubters too personally. I think they are not attacking nor rushing you. They are just afraid another promising game will turn out like all the others before.
I´m sure you´ve already read something like this but in the past there were quite a few promising 2D handpainted games that over the years either fizzled out or turned into bloated Holstein cows.

I think the doubters see a pessimistic future of July 2024 where everyone is waiting for What a Legend v0.771,01a, when future-magicnuts posts something along these lines:
"Ok guys it took us 11 months but we added 5 new girls (without content), 13 side characters and new supa fany villains that reference Kim Jong-un and Putin. We also patched bugs that should´ve been patched two versions ago, added X amount of words and updated 2 background to HD. Next patch will be "technical one" because our code is Mom´s spaghetti and android users demand 8k images now so pistachio can´t draw anything meanwhile. See you in 2026."

Is that a jab at summertime saga, because that's exactly (more or less) what happened.

 

[j4yj4m]

These SS comparisons aren't useful anyway. SS wasn't even supposed to be a game at first and there was neither a concept nor a plan when everything started basically by accident. The mistakes which were made back then had to be corrected or the game the game would have been an ugly (most people seem to have forgotten how bad it looked), boring and unplayable mess by now.

WaL! on the other hand is well organized from the start and most of these issues simply won't arise. The only mistake people should not make is equate money with speed. Just because a dev makes 2, 3 or 4 times the money, doesn't mean that there'll be more updates. That's really all there is to know, especially when the game is essentially given to the players for free. People should look at what a dev promises and what he delivers and that's really all there is.

 

[Dragon59]

These SS comparisons aren't useful anyway. SS wasn't even supposed to be a game at first and there was neither a concept nor a plan when everything started basically by accident. The mistakes which were made back then had to be corrected or the game the game would have been an ugly (most people seem to have forgotten how bad it looked), boring and unplayable mess by now.

Are you implying it was more like evolution than intelligent design? In other words more like real life than a machine.

 

[j4yj4m]

Are you implying it was more like evolution than intelligent design? In other words more like real life than a machine.

Well, that would probably be a bit too positive. In the end the decision that had to be made with SS in early 2018 was to either rush the game to the end as quickly as possible and leave things (bad) as they were or to go big, which meant that a lot of the content that was produced from mid 2016 until then was essentially kinda "for nothing".

Having said that, even though people imply that DC is changing random stuff all the time, there's indeed a clear pattern to every rework/change.

But as said, these things don't really apply here and it looks like the WaL! is able to support its own development and growth right from the start. The only thing that's needed now is time and patience =)

 

[rickpool98]

so i wanted to ask who is the focose on the next update

 

[sexypeanut]

so i wanted to ask who is the focose on the next update

Lana and the daughter of Lord Hammerdick

 

[diras2010]

Well, that would probably be a bit too positive. In the end the decision that had to be made with SS in early 2018 was to either rush the game to the end as quickly as possible and leave things (bad) as they were or to go big, which meant that a lot of the content that was produced from mid 2016 until then was essentially kinda "for nothing".

Having said that, even though people imply that DC is changing random stuff all the time, there's indeed a clear pattern to every rework/change.

But as said, these things don't really apply here and it looks like the WaL! is able to support its own development and growth right from the start. The only thing that's needed now is time and patience =)

As early player of that game, have to say that even DC said that if they wanted to make that game into something complete, at certain point on time, they had to re-do all the coding, due the fact that the game itself would become something unmanageable, so it was sink or swim, kind of, at the end, the old Dev Dogeek told me that making the new coding and the old coding working alongside was a huge headache, because if they switched something old, to the new sytem, they had to properly adjust the old system in order to avoid the game to crash and burn due inconsistencies

AFAIK WaL Dev has been doing a great job, and have commited to go step by step, tackling everything as best as possible, without compromising quality

A good job is not the done faster, but the one done carefully and in the right way

As I always said, don't force yourself onto the devs, they know what they're doing, and the less you nag to them, the more they have time to focus on the game and the faster the game gets developed, instead of bitching because the next update is not ready, why not give the devs emotional support, and make them feeling appreciated

 

[bogodit]

These SS comparisons aren't useful anyway. SS wasn't even supposed to be a game at first and there was neither a concept nor a plan when everything started basically by accident. The mistakes which were made back then had to be corrected or the game the game would have been an ugly (most people seem to have forgotten how bad it looked), boring and unplayable mess by now.

WaL! on the other hand is well organized from the start and most of these issues simply won't arise. The only mistake people should not make is equate money with speed. Just because a dev makes 2, 3 or 4 times the money, doesn't mean that there'll be more updates. That's really all there is to know, especially when the game is essentially given to the players for free. People should look at what a dev promises and what he delivers and that's really all there is.

But what if WaL dev hires more people for the necessary stuff?

 

[bogodit]

Lana and the daughter of Lord Hammerdick

I wanna bang that old elf lady!

 

[bogodit]

old Dev Dogeek

He isn't with the team anymore?

 

[j4yj4m]

But what if WaL dev hires more people for the necessary stuff?

With 2D games there's one issue (and that's basically the only, real issue) and that's the artist. You can hire another coder, animator, etc. without issues and your team will grow nicely, but once we are talking about the art, there seem to be only two real ways. Either you stay with the one guy or girl who draws fulltime (which is what WaL! and SS are doing) or you go really big and hire multiple artists whom you then coordinate (which is certainly something some devs, like DC for SS don't seem to want, because it essentially changes your whole project). But there's almost nothing really effective in between, unless you find the perfect artist to work for you. As soon as you have to instruct and correct too much, you may aswell have done the work yourself. After all the art isn't that complicated and in the worst case you hire somebody but your output will hardly grow - worse, you may even start to add inconsistencies in the style etc. which in my opinoin is the worst that can happen.

As far as I recall magicnuts actually did outsource some of the art, but it seems like it wasn't that much of success when it comes to an increase in output, which - again - is understandable.

He isn't with the team anymore?

He had to leave the team a long time ago.

@diras2010: To be fair, the coding wasn't/isn't really the issue with SS. As far as I'm aware none of DC's coders ever worked fulltime and he also said that he'd hire more coders if he felt there's a need. But what really takes the time is the art. It's indeed the same with every 2D game. The hire the quality, the more time it'll take.

 

[Deleted member 1340438]

With 2D games there's one issue (and that's basically the only, real issue) and that's the artist. You can hire another coder, animator, etc. without issues and your team will grow nicely, but once we are talking about the art, there seem to be only two real ways. Either you stay with the one guy or girl who draws fulltime (which is what WaL! and SS are doing) or you go really big and hire multiple artists whom you then coordinate (which is certainly something some devs, like DC for SS don't seem to want, because it essentially changes your whole project). But there's almost nothing really effective in between, unless you find the perfect artist to work for you. As soon as you have to instruct and correct too much, you may aswell have done the work yourself. After all the art isn't that complicated and in the worst case you hire somebody but your output will hardly grow - worse, you may even start to add inconsistencies in the style etc. which in my opinoin is the worst that can happen.

As far as I recall magicnuts actually did outsource some of the art, but it seems like it wasn't that much of success when it comes to an increase in output, which - again - is understandable.

He had to leave the team a long time ago.

@diras2010: To be fair, the coding wasn't/isn't really the issue with SS. As far as I'm aware none of DC's coders ever worked fulltime and he also said that he'd hire more coders if he felt there's a need. But what really takes the time is the art. It's indeed the same with every 2D game. The hire the quality, the more time it'll take.

Is it fine to ask why he had to leave the team?

 

[antonio1508]

hi guys mapple story continuation will be in the next update or 2 more ?

 

[j4yj4m]

Even though this is very much off topic over here...

Is it fine to ask why he had to leave the team?

He made a post on reddit about it back then:

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I guess people tend to underestimate the effort it takes to keep a team running for several years. Chestnut and pistacio are likely having an actual advantage by now having to deal with that to this extend.

 

[sexypeanut]

hi guys mapple story continuation will be in the next update or 2 more ?

IIRC, her update will come in the next one after 0.5 or the one after it (so, 0.6 or 0.7)

 

[jokuur]

i sended game to my hindu fren... he said he wanted to go back to bordello lel

 

[Jerent]

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Hi everybody.
Last week Chestnut and I had a lot of conversations about our design decisions for 0.5 and what we could have done differently. Since they may impact the future releases of the game, we want to share them with you.

Main Story updates
The last time we did the Main Story, we dedicated 2.5 updates to it (0.1, 0.2, and a bit of 0.3). Breaking the continuous story into chunks allowed us to have a shorter release timeline, but it reduced the sense of completion since the first part of Serena's quest (giving the message to Madeline and getting its reward) couldn't be achieved until 0.3.
After doing Myrtle's content for 0.4, we really liked how it had a satisfactory end and tried to create something similar for 0.5.
Now, although 0.5 finishes with a cliff-hanger that leads to the next part of the Main Story, I think we have managed to 'end' a chapter satisfactorily.
The cost, of course, has been that it's taking us longer to develop it than we had anticipated or planned, and this has led to several problems:

• the stress of constantly thinking that we're later than we had hoped
• the understandably higher expectation that people will have after an update takes several months to develop (if it's with me, I'd rather underpromise)
• the notion that some of our supporters may assume that taking this long will be the new norm for our future content releases as well

With the first two, we can't do much as we're already working as much as we can, and hopefully, the quality is good enough that you'll like it after the release. But we just want to let you all know and confirm that we don't plan for the future updates to take this long, and we'll release 0.5 as soon as it's ready.
We had planned to tell our side-stories using two quests (unless we see it doesn't work and we need three, of course), but we didn't have a similar plan for Main Stories. After working on 0.5, we're considering whether breaking up the future Main Story updates into two chunks will be a better design decision. It's something we're still thinking about, and we'll have to wait and see the response to 0.5, but we're conscious of alternative approaches.
Anyhow, do leave us a comment and let us know your thoughts about it.

Weekly report:
We have started a new way of editing/completing the content in that we begin from the beginning and finish everything until certain points in the story. One of those points was Simmone's content, and although it was almost done last week, on a second visit, there were many small, but I think important changes that we had to make to finish it, and that took much of our time last week (especially mine). We have begun work on the second chunk of edits and completion, and Chestnut has been working on the second sex scene (its presex). I won't need to rewrite anything new, but one of the scenes needs to be posed differently since we had created new facial expressions we didn't have earlier.

Next week's plan:
By the end of the next week, we want to have finished the second sex scene and have everything ready leading up to it. Then we'll start testing and fixing the third chunk of edits, including the third sex scene.

That's all we have.
Have a great weekend
Cheers

 

[Staimh]

• the stress of constantly thinking that we're later than we had hoped
• the understandably higher expectation that people will have after an update takes several months to develop (if it's with me, I'd rather underpromise)
• the notion that some of our supporters may assume that taking this long will be the new norm for our future content releases as well

Trying to remain objective
Your track record:

Consistent level of completed work (subjectively - a level I thoroughly enjoy)​

Consistent communication (like the post I am replying to)​

Ongoing development updates (see the OP Progress Tracker)​

All indicate you ought to have no reason to over pressure yourselves
That you appear to be over pressuring yourselves anyway would indicate a strong sense of commitment

You are always going to get individuals becoming impatient and fractious - I just hope in most cases this is driven by enthusiasm rather than selfishly motivated self entitlement

Thank you for all your good work so far