Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.03] [MagicNuts]
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- Jun 21, 2017
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What do you expect from only two people? Unless they abandon their life and only work work work it will take time to release builds.^^Heavy quality but more than a year for what seems like 15% of the game story... I fear this one is gonna become abandoned before accomplishment or that'll see the end in a decade.
Hope I'm wrong, good luck to the devs
I will not be that negative and think they will abandon this project considered how passionate and well supported Dev has gained so far, but I did agree is that with only 2 people working on this masterpiece it will take lot of time so maybe they need to contact and hire more talent people to help them cut down the development timeHeavy quality but more than a year for what seems like 15% of the game story... I fear this one is gonna become abandoned before accomplishment or that'll see the end in a decade.
Hope I'm wrong, good luck to the devs
- Sep 12, 2018
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It all depends, let's check that...where I'm from minimum wage is 1.25$ per hour, and there are many countries where even those 1.25$ per hour would be a small fortune. Claiming "XX dollars per hour is not even a minimum wage" (or so) is a week, though rather popular argument around, as if all the devs and players are from wealthy first world countries, which is as far from the truth as it could be. I would say our devs here are somewhere in middle, not from wealthiest, nor from poorest countries, so for them 12.5$ per hour should be a fairly decent amount.
Yet, to stop this "financial" analysis, these two deserve much more income for a quality of their work/game, and I hope they will get there in due time.
p.s.
haven't checked this thread for a while, hence a bit late reply
- Jun 17, 2019
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Their income is enough to make this their job but they are no getting rich at all, I can assure you. After Patreon's cut (and their late month subscriber's refund policy), taxes and mandatory healthcare for self-employed workers in Spain, it's a decent monthly salary (maybe not so good if we calculate it per hour actually worked) but just to make ends meet and little else, and of course we don't know if they have other financial burdens from their past. And even if they were getting rich by working on their joint project, I still couldn't find what's to criticize: isn't it what all of us would dream of? Because people tend to use that income level to throw shit about milking and try to reflect on them their own misery and short-minded attitude, but in this case, and up to this day, there's absolutely no rational reason to claim devs are working less or producing less quality content than when they released v0.1 as a hobbyIt all depends, let's check that...where I'm from minimum wage is 1.25$ per hour, and there are many countries where even those 1.25$ per hour would be a small fortune. Claiming "XX dollars per hour is not even a minimum wage" (or so) is a week, though rather popular argument around, as if all the devs and players are from wealthy first world countries, which is as far from the truth as it could be. I would say our devs here are somewhere in middle, not from wealthiest, nor from poorest countries, so for them 12.5$ per hour should be a fairly decent amount.
Yet, to stop this "financial" analysis, these two deserve much more income for a quality of their work/game, and I hope they will get there in due time.
p.s.
haven't checked this thread for a while, hence a bit late reply
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- Sep 12, 2018
- 9,482
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To not go overly offtopic here - I have replied only because it has got a bit tiresome, on both sides.
For those accusing devs for milking, even for some quite small incomes, and for those stating as a solid rock facts *three-zero-incomes* being "nothing"...
In this particular case, imo they are getting just enough, way above "minimum wage", as it was mentioned/calculated above.
Is their work on this game worth more money - certainly it is.
Will they get there - certainly do hope so.
Is the latest update (overly) delayed - certainly it is...
- Aug 17, 2016
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- Apr 10, 2018
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Hi everybody.
Chestnut and I have been extremely busy trying to finish and polish everything, and although we have a bit more work left, we're very happy with the outcome so far, and I sincerely hope that you will like the update too once it's out.
We don't have a release date, so take into account that this might change, but we're working very hard to have everything ready by the end of this month. However, if we see that we need more time to polish and debug things (a very likely scenario), we will release 0.5 in September rather than publish a faulty or poorly tested one in August.
I know I have said it before, but I still want to thank every one of you who have been patiently waiting for the next release, and I am sorry that it has taken us this long. I don't think we could have done anything differently (except not taking Sundays off in the first month, perhaps), but still, I wish I could show you the result of your continuous support earlier.
If we see that, for whatever reason, we cannot complete the debug/testing/polish in August, we are going to offer refunds for the pledges of the month of September for any of the members who have been supporting us at least since August and are interested in it. You'll only have to send us a message on Patreon or Discord in the first days of September, and I'll issue the refund after the 5th. If you're worried you'll forget about it, I will mention this again in the following report (when we will know with more certainty if we can finish 0.5 in August or not).
Now to the report:
Chestnut worked entirely on cutscenes and backgrounds (you can see one of the images
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). She finished several artworks and did variations for others.I edited the text and the posing and also tested and debugged the content already done. I also added new sound effects and made other audio adjustments, as well as coding in all of the new artworks.
Next week's plan:
I have added new hands to improve a few of the scenes, and Chestnut will need to draw them. Other than that, she will work exclusively on cutscenes. Once she's done, she has a list of artworks that will need to be edited and polished (or have variations and expressions drawn for them).
I ran into a bug last week, the solution to which was updating Ren'py to the latest version (I hadn't done that since May of 2020). That worries me a little because of compatibility issues, and I want to spend enough time adequately testing everything from the beginning to make sure new players don't run into bugs. Other than that, I will add artworks when they are ready and edit and test the content. Lastly, I want to add more sound effects and improve some earlier ones (though they may have to wait for later).
That's all we have.
Have a wonderful and relaxing weekend.
Cheers
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- Aug 3, 2019
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Lol the full release isnt coming anytime soon. Especially if we only get updates every 6 to 7 months. ~ 4 to 6 years ~
- Jul 16, 2019
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The tracker honestly doesn't really mean anything as suspected.
For the past few days the percentage has been literally moving by 0.1 increments. Surely it moved faster on the first few months. But as more work than they thought came up, the tracker is being slowed down to accommodate, because reducing the percentage already done would probably look bad?
Otherwise it would have taken 10 days for just 1 percent, 1000 days for a full patch not counting polish, considering the current pace of the tracker, if it were applied to it retroactively.
If the progress tracker isn't representing the truth, the format should be changed, it's disingenuous. I don't blame them for it either, it's impossible to plan literally every piece of work that needs to be done months before, so the tracker can't ever be correct other than being a vague sense of progress.
I'm not criticizing them for being late. The fact that I even have to mention that beforehand against people who get really assmad at the slightest point of criticism as if they themselves were being insulted is ridiculous.
For the past few days the percentage has been literally moving by 0.1 increments. Surely it moved faster on the first few months. But as more work than they thought came up, the tracker is being slowed down to accommodate, because reducing the percentage already done would probably look bad?
Otherwise it would have taken 10 days for just 1 percent, 1000 days for a full patch not counting polish, considering the current pace of the tracker, if it were applied to it retroactively.
If the progress tracker isn't representing the truth, the format should be changed, it's disingenuous. I don't blame them for it either, it's impossible to plan literally every piece of work that needs to be done months before, so the tracker can't ever be correct other than being a vague sense of progress.
I'm not criticizing them for being late. The fact that I even have to mention that beforehand against people who get really assmad at the slightest point of criticism as if they themselves were being insulted is ridiculous.
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Not everything takes the same amount of time. Writing a scene will arguably take way less time than drawing/animating it, and they both have the same percent counter, to make a dumb example. An update is just around the corner, let's have a little patience.
" I'm not criticizing them for being late. "
I agree that not everything takes the same amount of time, that's what I 'm saying. The tracker is kinda inherently a flawed system. You can't know how much work you're gonna have to do, so it obviously doesn't work.
- Jun 17, 2019
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I think you just don't understand the tracker nor the workflow of a development project, honestly
The percentage is reduced when needed, it wouldn't be the first time: from their discord, where you can take a look at every day's tracker, Aug12th total content went up from 95,3% to 96,0% as they finished 5 tasks, but total polish went down from 87,0% to 86,2% as 4 new debugging tasks were added.
About the slowering progress: In the first months there are lots of tasks that can be done at the same time (she can draw sketches while he fixes typos from the last update, writes dialog sketches, look for new sound effects, whatever). In the last weeks of development, though, most of remaining tasks are gated due to the art bottleneck. Also, they use to leave the more time consuming artwork to the end of the development period. It's kind of logic: human mind prefers to delay the hardest tasks until you can't delay them anymore, but also it can be useful to get 'minor' art tasks done at first, as they can help advance other works. So the track is not being slowed down to accomodate, it's just that nowadays she's finishing just about one task per day (some days 2, some days 0) and that's the progress we've been watching those weeks. Content numbers don't lie, you can do the math and get the same percentage you can see in the tracker.
They do plan the content they want to include in each update, in fact the tracker is first posted after a week of planning in order to avoid as many desviations as possible (of course, some desviations are just unavoidable). But what's the progress tracker then, but a tool to show that progress in a less vague way than the usual "Tons of renders done this week, update is getting closer"? Of course, I assume the tracker is representing the truth - it's not that a lot more work than they thought came up, it's just that the work they had planned is taking them more time than they initially expected. I'm starting to suspect you don't think devs are displaying their actual work in the tracker but just some random numbers they come up with before going to bed (at 5am, by the way). I'm afraid I can't change your mind on that.
Hope you don't consider I'm getting assmad
- May 24, 2018
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Honestly I really admire their work ethic. If it were me, I'd explicitly say something like, "Every time I read a complaint about how I'm not working fast enough, I'm taking a day off." With how the internet works I'd never work again.
- Apr 24, 2020
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That would be a better solution than to risk what happened with the developer of Flirty F, whose pre-existent mental health issues were set off by all the criticism. As I enter this field, it is something I must be very aware of--especially since I will be making some rather niche stories.
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- Apr 24, 2020
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Not much. At least not directly. We're telling a simple story, though, and most of our characters are based on 'types' that are familiar and recognizable.
You highlighted the answer: "The actual development period will vary depending on the story/quests." Reaching your 30s won't be so bad, I promise you; for one thing, you might have learned by then that you can't solve every problem by simply throwing money at it. We're not working any different now than when we earned 600, and unless we can open a physical studio (something that's very unlikely to happen), there's nothing I could change even if we made twice as much.
That was the original plan. But we ended up enjoying our updates more when we could include a larger amount of content and have more sex scenes, and that wasn't doable in two months.
You fail to mention that we have also increased the amount of content with each release. But anyway, that's really beside the point. Each update has its own necessities and complexities, and if you don't want a half-finished, sketchy, bug-ridden update (frankly, I don't, even if you do), then it will take as much time as it needs. Things are different during the planning phase, of course, but we are way past that.
$ povname = "Your name"
Okay, I want to be cautious here because estimating the amount of content based on the number of words is tricky. There are many more words in 0.5, because it deals with the Main Story and tries to prepare for the future main story updates. The amount of content experienced, though, depends on your playstyle, reading speed, and if you're having fun and exploring around (perhaps reading the convos, collecting artworks, etc.). In my case, 0.5 is more or less as long as 0.4; for Chestnut (the artist), it is longer than 0.4. So, it's hard to tell. But regardless of how much content the player experiences, those 35k words need to be written, posed, and have art drawn for them, so it is more work on our side.
I suggest you don't play games that are under development, at least not this one.
For the record, we don't intend the 6-months-per-update to become the norm in our case. It's really not good for our mental health.
We have given it a lot of thought, but no, it is unlikely to happen.
The update will focus on the Main Story, and the MC will have scenes with Lana and Simmone Nevernuff. No other characters will have scenes in 0.5 (if you don't count the hidden photos).
I don't know if it's done by the same person or not, but there's a Russian translation on our website (and Discord server) you can try.
Before accusing us of 'fooling' you, you should read the titles of different bars on the progress tracker since you're confusing polish with the main content.
There will be more than 15 minutes of content, but IF you read the text.
I think people support us on Patreon because they like the project, would like to see it continued, and trust that when we say we have been working on this release for months without taking a day off, and are doing everything we can to have an update that is as good as we can make it (even if we end up being wrong in our judgment -- it has happened), we're not lying. If you think we are, you are unlikely to support us.
You will be able to continue using your old save files.
No, no android version is planned. However, the updates are usually ported by the community rather quickly, and thank you for your kind words.
We have already commissioned a talented sketch artist, but given our work style, hiring a permanent team member is not as easy as you think and may, at least in the beginning, result in a longer development time.
You'd be hard-pressed to find many graphs that represent the 'truth', the most they can do is communicate information as clearly and as accurately as possible within a set of limitations. If you expect the truth, you're bound to feel that we have been disingenuous. But you can hardly blame me for that. We have been pretty clear about the progress tracker (there's a long post about it on our Discord server, where you can also find all of them as far back as the first one posted on the day we released 0.1).
Our progress tracker communicates how we work, and when we complete a task, we show it there. Some tasks require others before they can be done, and tasks done in the earlier phase of development are simpler. They are the hands, and the cutscenes that we have assets for and things that we see are taking longer, we keep for later because we want to have as much art ready early on to get to posing and coding as soon as possible.
Importantly, Chestnut and I have different individual ways of counting our respective tasks (I break my tasks into chunks, and so I add and remove them as I do extra stuff or change my plans, whereas each one of her tasks includes several artworks and variations, making it more flexible to include possible changes but also give the appearance that she's 'only' doing one task a day). They are not arbitrary, just reflect the two of us.
That said, the progress tracker has two major flaws:
- it doesn't show 'testing', which is something we do a lot in the second half of a development cycle.
- it is designed by humans, not machines. We add and remove tasks all the time when we think a piece of content doesn't work or needs improvements (the result of testing). It has happened with smaller bits or whole sections. We make a piece of content, test it, criticize it and ask ourselves how we can improve it and do it again and again until we're happy with the result. That's mainly why the update has taken us this long.
If these limitations make it absolutely useless to you, then that may be the case for you. I, for one, find it useful.