Ren'Py What a Legend! [v0.7.03] [MagicNuts]

[Cap]

I'm not trying to be negative, but real. Here are some things that occur to me. This game is quality, it really is. Once I have some more pocket money, I intend to support them, so take my words with a grain of salt because I am not currently paying money for this.

1) If I wasn't worried about them being perfectionists, I am now. The fact that they, on a supposed release day, were ready to change a substantial chunk of the update because of initial feedback sets a tone. I can understand not wanting to release an update with bugs. I can also understand giving some more testing after fixing them in order to make 100% sure it's ready. However, the fact that they aren't prepared to commit to a release is a trend that hopefully won't stay for long.

2) They need to open up testing slightly earlier. I'm sure there are a large number of supporters that wouldn't mind an earlier access to help hunt bugs, and I'm sure even a few could help correct them. It would definitely speed up the editing and bughunting process, which is one of the longer cycles. If this update had a beta cycle like that, this pacing issue may have been spotted earlier and fixed without causing as much of a bump.

3) There needs to be the ability to gently (read: not being jerks about it) criticize the devs. This thread is full of people that do nothing but shout down anyone who questions anything, because the devs are more transparent than most. I think it's healthy to not put people in a bubble where they cannot hear any dissenting voices because people think they're fragile. That said, people also need to be using actual criticism and not comparing the dev to ICSTOR, which they definitely are not.

All in all, I look forward to the update and hope that the next one runs into fewer stumbling blocks.

 

[Arigato3210]

So, it's coming here tomorrow then?

 

[Majintakara]

Release update in GMT +2 , around Night, 19 hours later. Ding~

 

[WeaselX]

Ah man, I feel bad for them. I was happy to wait, to be honest. On the positive side, I guess we'll find out if the middle part of the new content is as serious and tedious as they perceived it to be.

I'm not a fan of destroying what's already been produced. The developers obviously liked the storyline they created for this update, or else they wouldn't have pushed it forward to begin with. Testing and listening to those testing the update is all fine and dandy, but I expect that type of input to be mostly about bugs and, because the game is mostly reading, misspelled words and obvious grammar errors too, not about the actual substance of the storyline. If the developers are so wishy-washy on the story, they should've changed it long before pushing the update forward. Indeed, long before the art was even started.

 

[moskyx]

I'm not a fan of destroying what's already been produced. The developers obviously liked the storyline they created for this update, or else they wouldn't have pushed it forward to begin with. Testing and listening to those testing the update is all fine and dandy, but I expect that type of input to be mostly about bugs and, because the game is mostly reading, misspelled words and obvious grammar errors too, not about the actual substance of the storyline. If the developers are so wishy-washy on the story, they should've changed it long before pushing the update forward. Indeed, long before the art was even started.

They especifically asked us our opinions about the general feeling of the game and quests, not just to look for bugs and typos. The fact they basically agreed with us on the 'pacing problem', as it seems most of us notice there was an issue with it (which is kind of logic, as not many creators are able to keep people entertained for 4 hours in a row), means they were aware of this but weren't so sure about its 'seriousness', all while they had already thought in a possible solution to it. Had they taken a week off back in july, I'd bet they would have redone that middle part on their own: sometimes you need to take a break to come back and see your own work with fresh eyes, something they haven't done in this update as they've been working 7 days a week since many months ago. We were those fresh eyes but patrons seem to have pressured them to release it now as it is. Well, it's going to be a very good update but it would have been probably better with just a few days more of work. But hey, they are the ones paying for it, so...

 

[hentaidwarf]

For the darker part that got critic in it for this update.

Well I think we also need dark parts in a good story, if you have a story that stays the same most of the time you get something like pokemon.

If you have only happy parts, or only dark parts(I think game of thrones overdid it on that), the story line grows lump and predictable. Only if there are also people you grow to hate, you feel satisfied when they die. Also in a dark and ruthless story you grow to like the few goods ones. Also with funny stuff, it gets a different touch if there is also drama to it, like in the dramedy genre.

You can imagine it as a line plot, usually you want a somewhat wild frequency between ups and downs, in a unpredictable way(which also means there are not wild parts).

At the end the problem doesn't stay 2 Dimensional, there are different lines(Anger, Hate, Depressions, Speed of the story...) that overlap that can be at a high and low at different time points.

The secret is to find a good mix that keeps the reader engaged. Which also means you can have parts that people don´t like in it, which makes the story overall better(some people don´t realize how much parts they don´t like account their overall liking of the story, because of the big climax then when things change).

I´m not a beta tester, so I can´t say how it plays out now. But that's something I come to realize about what I like about stories.

 

[destroyerofassholes]

The bitching actually made a difference. Wow.

I have full faith that if Magicnuts had that one extra week, they'd do it justice and all, but sometimes you just have to cut your losses. For their sake too.

And despite every porn game ever being a bad precedent, I do believe this whole months-late stuff won't happen again (yes, it was late no matter how many pages of bullshit you post on f95). They did prove that they can learn from experience with the Holly update after all.

 

[bingolebongo]

Big thanks to the beta testers reporting in here.

I'm sad people are sending unhappy messages to them, but it also seems like a better idea to take it as a learning experience than to add a rewrite, especially if the nuts are too tired at the moment. I know I'm looking forward to playing the update either way.

 

[moskyx]

For the darker part that got critic in it for this update.

Well I think we also need dark parts in a good story, if you have a story that stays the same most of the time you get something like pokemon.

If you have only happy parts, or only dark parts(I think game of thrones overdid it on that), the story line grows lump and predictable. Only if there are also people you grow to hate, you feel satisfied when they die. Also in a dark and ruthless story you grow to like the few goods ones. Also with funny stuff, it gets a different touch if there is also drama to it, like in the dramedy genre.

You can imagine it as a line plot, usually you want a somewhat wild frequency between ups and downs, in a unpredictable way(which also means there are not wild parts).

At the end the problem doesn't stay 2 Dimensional, there are different lines(Anger, Hate, Depressions, Speed of the story...) that overlap that can be at a high and low at different time points.

The secret is to find a good mix that keeps the reader engaged. Which also means you can have parts that people don´t like in it, which makes the story overall better(some people don´t realize how much parts they don´t like account their overall liking of the story, because of the big climax then when things change).

I´m not a beta tester, so I can´t say how it plays out now. But that's something I come to realize about what I like about stories.

That's right. And the story is not dark, not darker than Myrtle going on a quest to find out if her husband is still alive. Mild spoiler ahead:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

All in all, a very good and long update with some pretty damn good art. The 'problem' is that... it felt a bit less funny than other updates and probably the solution they've came up with would have improve that. Sadly we'll probably never know, unless they decide to edit it anyway in a future release

 

[WeaselX]

I have full faith that if Magicnuts had that one extra week, they'd do it justice and all, but sometimes you just have to cut your losses. For their sake too.

But there doesn't even have to be a loss. There's nothing stopping them from doing the reworks they have in mind and posting a quick update a week from now. So what if we play through the update as it is now? I'll save the game prior to starting this update, and if they change it later, I'll reload the game and play it again to see how they improved it. Like a new game plus Besides, it's not like we aren't going to have six months of waiting for the next big update, so there'll be plenty of time to play through two versions of this update. They average approximately 1 minute of game play per day they develop the game.

 

[Hoey]

View attachment 1420303

You must be registered to see the links

Hi everybody.
Many of you expected the update to be released today (I know I did), so we want to post this report as early as possible to clarify the situation.
After giving an earlier build of the 0.5 to several testers, they found a bug and a bunch of typos, all of which we have already fixed.
We did, however, also asked for feedback on the pacing and the overall feel of the content, and although the response was generally positive, we did notice two recurring criticisms:

• the tone in the middle part of the story becomes too serious;
• although not boring, the middle part, again, is a little too long;

We think these are fair criticisms, and we agree with them on the whole. The question then was what are we going to do about them.
My first response was to settle for an okay update, publish 0.5 as it is, and just go and take a break already. But after giving it more thought and brainstorming possible ways of addressing the issues, we decided we would be remiss not to take the feedback and try to do something about them. So:

• I'm going to cut some of the events that are a bit repetitious and try to shuffle the important story points discussed in them in other dialogues.
• Chestnut has already started work on artworks for a new sexy event that will hopefully lighten the tone where we think it's most needed.
• She's also going to draw a few more achievements.
• I'm going to rewrite some of the dialogues to change the tone.
• Before you worry that we're going to make the content too short, I just want to say that the length probably won't be an issue since those who tested the game said the new content took them between 3-5 hours to complete.

Will these changes improve the update? I certainly hope so, but of course, if we see that they don't, we won't include them.
How many days will it take us to do all these? I wish I knew. But we will have them ready in September. That's a promise.
Lastly, a huge thank you to all of the early testers who took the time to help us improve the game.
Have a great weekend
Cheers


----------------------------

Update:

We're getting a lot of messages from people not happy with our decision. To be honest, maybe we are being too anal; we're too physically and mentally tired to make the best decisions right now. Our intention has always been to do what is best for the game and try to be as honest and transparent as we can. This whole thing has been a learning experience and perhaps releasing the update today and making the changes together with the content of 0.6 is a better option. We appreciate that you have all supported us for many months on pure trust, and we don't want you to feel like we don't value your support and patience.

So, you will have the update by the end of tonight (GMT+2)

Kind of surprising, but I can see the rationale, if this will make the game better, then I accept this delay and have no problem waiting for as long as necessary, it is complex work and we shouldn't rush art after all.

And besides, it wasn't just on a whim, multiple people gave the same feedback, and it was important enough to the plot that it warranted a delay, I can see the quality of the works that were put into it and I can sympathize with the situation, we need to see things logically and be fair to the devs.

 

[FlamesOfVengeance]

Hm interesting... so according to the testers the middle part is "too dark", hm? I don't think that's neccessarily a bad thing tho. I generally love the lighthearted tone of the game but a few serious or dark moments inbetween won't bring the quality down at all I'd say. I think we should all just let Chestnut and Pistachio make their story and not interfere if possible. Surely there's always gonna be things that some people don't like and that's fine... you can't please everyone as a writer.

I'm still looking forward to the new update and can't wait to dive back into the ever expanding world of WaL.

PS: Will the new update still come out today? The status update seemed to imply so.

 

[watermellon69]

Kind of surprising, but I can see the rationale, if this will make the game better, then I accept this delay and have no problem waiting for as long as necessary, it is complex work and we shouldn't rush art after all.

And besides, it wasn't just on a whim, multiple people gave the same feedback, and it was important enough to the plot that it warranted a delay, I can see the quality of the works that were put into it and I can sympathize with the situation, we need to see things logically and be fair to the devs.

There is no delay, update coming tonight.

 

[moskyx]

Hm interesting... so according to the testers the middle part is "too dark", hm? I don't think that's neccessarily a bad thing tho. I generally love the lighthearted tone of the game but a few serious or dark moments inbetween won't bring the quality down at all I'd say. I think we should all just let Chestnut and Pistachio make their story and not interfere if possible. Surely there's always gonna be things that some people don't like and that's fine... you can't please everyone as a writer.

I'm still looking forward to the new update and can't wait to dive back into the ever expanding world of WaL.

PS: Will the new update still come out today? The status update seemed to imply so.

I don't consider it dark. Sure there are some serious moments on it but this is still WaL, nothing is too serious even when it seems it is. For me it's... kind of dull, and a few laughs, maybe just an extra achievement or a brief and sexy mishap could make it better.

Anyway, we're talking about some scenes in a 4 hour long update. I don't want to mislead people and make them think this is going to be a dull and kind of meh update. It is not. It really worths the wait

 

[FlamesOfVengeance]

I don't consider it dark. Sure there are some serious moments on it but this is still WaL, nothing is too serious even when it seems it is. For me it's... kind of dull, and a few laughs, maybe just an extra achievement or a brief and sexy mishap could make it better.

Anyway, we're talking about some scenes in a 4 hour long update. I don't want to mislead people and make them think this is going to be a dull and kind of meh update. It is not. It really worths the wait

So did Magicnuts decide to leave these scenes in now? They are not going to prolong the development for another week?

 

[bingolebongo]

So did Magicnuts decide to leave these scenes in now? They are not going to prolong the development for another week?

According to the update to their latest Patreon status, that is indeed correct.

 

[whichone]

(yes, it was late no matter how many pages of bullshit you post on f95).

It's only late if a specific date was given and they go past that, without notifying people of the need for a delay.
If they didn't say it will be here by X, then it cannot be late, other than for one's own expectation, which is on that person to manage.
There has not been any bullshit, other than posts invalidly screaming for their personal expectations to be met.

 

[bingolebongo]

It's only late if a specific date was given and they go past that, without notifying people of the need for a delay.
If they didn't say it will be here by X, then it cannot be late, other than for one's own expectation, which is on that person to manage.

A porn game is never late, nor is it early. It arrives precisely when it means to.

 

[OptimusPrime14]

and when exactly should this update land?

 

[destroyerofassholes]

It's only late if a specific date was given and they go past that, without notifying people of the need for a delay.
If they didn't say it will be here by X, then it cannot be late, other than for one's own expectation, which is on that person to manage.
There has not been any bullshit, other than posts invalidly screaming for their personal expectations to be met.

That's a cop-out. They've set precedents with the update times with the previous updates, and seeing as they've apologized more than once regarding how long this update is taking, its lateness is something they themselves admit.

Had it not been late this whole drama would have never happened. It would have just been a normal update cycle. Like Holly or Myrtle. Clearly something went awry.

But there is really nothing to talk about here since neither of us will budge.