When you check patrons of some project and compare them with other you get amazed, some projects with low quality CG and even with bad game play (almost no game play) are more successful than those have a good game play or good CG. If the key to success is not a good game-play or a good-story or even a good game-play, what is it? why a project with good CG and GP should receive less patrons of a bad one?
What is the secrets of a good and successful project
- Thread starter bumbiee.soft
- Start date
- Jun 10, 2017
- 10,292
- 15,151
I don't know what is the secret for a good and successful game, and I'm not even sure that there's one.
But one thing I know is that a creator who isn't curious and attentive rarely achieve to succeed. I'm talking about the kind of creator that wouldn't see that a thread addressing his questions regarding what good tiers can be, was third in the list of threads on this section when he started his own thread regarding this subject.
But one thing I know is that a creator who isn't curious and attentive rarely achieve to succeed. I'm talking about the kind of creator that wouldn't see that a thread addressing his questions regarding what good tiers can be, was third in the list of threads on this section when he started his own thread regarding this subject.
The creator might want to know what could fit the best and make some research
- Oct 29, 2018
- 920
- 1,350
Couldn't agree more with the highlighted bit above. From top to bottom the one stand out that I see with successful games vs. less successful games is how involved a dev is. It's important.
That said, I also think that luck and timing plays a huge part as well. Which is the same with anything, really. Why did one movie make a bazillion dollars on release when a similar, superior movie came out half a year earlier and made nothing? Why did this video go viral when there are literally hundreds if not thousands of similar videos that came out previously? Sometimes it could be attributed to knowledge of audience, but more often than not it all boils down to luck and timing.
It's a combination of many factors. Does the kinks of your game expand or limit your audience? the genre? does your game stand above the many adult games that gets released weekly? And as tanstaafl said, luck and timing also affect, you may be unlucky and launch the game right besides one of a dev with a huge following from his prior game.
I don't know what the secret of success is, but here are some of my insights:
1. Steady releases and transparent communication. Releases don't have to be frequent releases if their size is small, but steadiness goes a long way towards achieving players confidence.
2. The wisdom to know when to listen to feedback and accept it and when to stick to your course when you think others are wrong.
3. Great visuals never hurt anyone, but the price of high quality visuals keep increasing. Yet, catering to specific niche(s), good storytelling and other "alternative quality" aspects can tip the success/failure balance in your favor.
4. The most important thing: patience. If you look at most of the successful project they have been around for a long time while on the other hand, if you look in the ditches by the side of the road to success you'll see plenty of abandoned projects created by developers who gave up. Keep pushing.
Good luck.
1. Steady releases and transparent communication. Releases don't have to be frequent releases if their size is small, but steadiness goes a long way towards achieving players confidence.
2. The wisdom to know when to listen to feedback and accept it and when to stick to your course when you think others are wrong.
3. Great visuals never hurt anyone, but the price of high quality visuals keep increasing. Yet, catering to specific niche(s), good storytelling and other "alternative quality" aspects can tip the success/failure balance in your favor.
4. The most important thing: patience. If you look at most of the successful project they have been around for a long time while on the other hand, if you look in the ditches by the side of the road to success you'll see plenty of abandoned projects created by developers who gave up. Keep pushing.
Good luck.
Lot's of good points here. Here's some of mine:
Be transparent; let people know what you're up to, show WIP content to your discord or thread audience, let them know when stuff gets derailed, and try not to make promises you can't keep.
Try to be professional without sounding like a corp-bot; if someone's being rude or annoying, just tune them out... arguing with trolls online is like wrestling with a pig; win or lose you're getting dirty, and the pig enjoys it a whole lot more than you do.
As Doorknob said, know when to take advice and when to ignore it in favor of your own vision. Separate feedback into
Put out a solid first release. It's so tempting to rush a 0.0.01(alpha) release out to see what people think, but try to share that in more limited circles. If you have a discord, share it there. If you're a discord regular on one of the other AVN sites, see if any of the regulars that know you there will play it and give you feedback. Set up a dev-thread here, and share WIPs and demos, but save your 'release' until you have at least ~45 mins of content. Something that's actually worth downloading and playing, and something people might remember. First impressions matter.
Try to find people willing to test the game for you. Devs make *terrible* testers of their own content, because we know how things are supposed to go. Volunteer testers are worth gold; again you find them the same place you share your WIP builds.
Apart from that... try to make something that's close enough to what people already like, while being new and unique enough to scratch an itch they have. There's a middle ground between "young man returns home to two sisters and prozac mom" and Squirrel NTR RPG
And don't forget... have fun
Otherwise you'll burn out, and your game will end up on the pile of other [Abandoned] games.
Be transparent; let people know what you're up to, show WIP content to your discord or thread audience, let them know when stuff gets derailed, and try not to make promises you can't keep.
Try to be professional without sounding like a corp-bot; if someone's being rude or annoying, just tune them out... arguing with trolls online is like wrestling with a pig; win or lose you're getting dirty, and the pig enjoys it a whole lot more than you do.
As Doorknob said, know when to take advice and when to ignore it in favor of your own vision. Separate feedback into
- Actionable and factual (the game crashes here. There's clipping in this animation, or typos there)
- Subjective stuff that you agree with (It doesn't feel like she'd be ready for sex here. The lighting on this scene's not great. This chunk of dialog feels stilted),
- Aspirational stuff you agree with (it would be really nice to have a better navigation, you should flesh out this sub-quest, that side-character is really hot, it'd be amazing if you could make her an LI) that you'll consider adding when you have time.
- Aspiration stuff you disagree with (it'd be really cool if the main LI was a futanari, and like also the Monkey God, and she gets horns when she's angry).
Put out a solid first release. It's so tempting to rush a 0.0.01(alpha) release out to see what people think, but try to share that in more limited circles. If you have a discord, share it there. If you're a discord regular on one of the other AVN sites, see if any of the regulars that know you there will play it and give you feedback. Set up a dev-thread here, and share WIPs and demos, but save your 'release' until you have at least ~45 mins of content. Something that's actually worth downloading and playing, and something people might remember. First impressions matter.
Try to find people willing to test the game for you. Devs make *terrible* testers of their own content, because we know how things are supposed to go. Volunteer testers are worth gold; again you find them the same place you share your WIP builds.
Apart from that... try to make something that's close enough to what people already like, while being new and unique enough to scratch an itch they have. There's a middle ground between "young man returns home to two sisters and prozac mom" and Squirrel NTR RPG
And don't forget... have fun
Otherwise you'll burn out, and your game will end up on the pile of other [Abandoned] games.
If one day you find the recipe for success, you will surely also find the secret of eternal life.
I believe that you need to seek to work on something that makes you happy above all else And naturally you will be successful. .
Rather than trying to find some specific niche.
"Work with what you love, and you will never have to work again in your life. "
I believe that you need to seek to work on something that makes you happy above all else And naturally you will be successful. .
Rather than trying to find some specific niche.
"Work with what you love, and you will never have to work again in your life. "
- Aug 13, 2018
- 36
- 123
Oh, for some reason I thought this is something I could do after having a game in the game thread. Good to know, thanks
I did it for one year prior to my game's launch. It's a good strategy if you find testers here. I've seen threads with 1-2 people actually answering or trying the games though, but it's worth a try. I had the advantage that, being a gay game, I had at least 5-6 regulars that tested my game, they helped me with my bad UI when I released the first beta here.Oh, for some reason I thought this is something I could do after having a game in the game thread. Good to know, thanks
One dev, Whale_Shark (the dev of Confidence man. Check it out if you can, it's a shame it ended abandoned) taught me the basics of a good UI, and I took examples of his game. In particular, he gave me the advice that Droid Productions just gave: You don't have to rush your first release, first impression REALLY count, he told me to wait until I was happy with my game, and was comfortable releasing it.
One common mistake is that many devs rush their release, with a 0.00001 version that barely have the title screen, and little else (happens a lot with the HTML games) hoping to get feedback to continue developing it (and maybe gaining some bucks starting the patreon early). The tricky part is, if you give a bad first impression, it's hard to convince players later to play your game. I waited one whole year until I felt my game was good enough for the launch here. I launched my patreon right off the bat, but I had a long dev time behind. Ah, Players here react really bad when you release a 2 minutes demo with a patreon right from the start.
Ok, you can get feedback by releasing early your game, but that feedback CAN be gotten in the dev section of this forum, without any judgement of you as a dev, since it's a section intended for that. You can polish your game a little before launching officially here.
0) pure dumb luck, like with all forms of success.
1) longevity, longevity, longevity. before first year or two you barely exist to anyone else.
2) avoiding divisive niche fetishes/fetish bloat.
3) don't lie to your audience. you'd think this was obvious but no. you betray them once and they will follow you for years and shit on every project you make. the internet never forgets.
4) visibility. nobody who hasn't heard of your game can become a fan. two effective ways to achieve this is by building a community around the game, and controversy. latter is very tricky and can kill your rep forever just as well. dumbasses arguing about ntr gives millions of views, just make sure you didn't betray your audience.
I don't think 'original story' etc matters almost at all, certainly not positively. it's HARD re-inventing the wheel. even people like tarantino, kurosawa, tolkien never tried to do that, and you are not like them. harry potter, star wars, none of the most loved stories had a drop of originality in them.
good renders can help to get attention, but they're not enough alone. shitty renders with a thicc milf will trump that every single time.
and nothing can fix an attempt to reach several divisive niche fetishes. this is the problem I see the most.
1) longevity, longevity, longevity. before first year or two you barely exist to anyone else.
2) avoiding divisive niche fetishes/fetish bloat.
3) don't lie to your audience. you'd think this was obvious but no. you betray them once and they will follow you for years and shit on every project you make. the internet never forgets.
4) visibility. nobody who hasn't heard of your game can become a fan. two effective ways to achieve this is by building a community around the game, and controversy. latter is very tricky and can kill your rep forever just as well. dumbasses arguing about ntr gives millions of views, just make sure you didn't betray your audience.
I don't think 'original story' etc matters almost at all, certainly not positively. it's HARD re-inventing the wheel. even people like tarantino, kurosawa, tolkien never tried to do that, and you are not like them. harry potter, star wars, none of the most loved stories had a drop of originality in them.
good renders can help to get attention, but they're not enough alone. shitty renders with a thicc milf will trump that every single time.
and nothing can fix an attempt to reach several divisive niche fetishes. this is the problem I see the most.
- May 21, 2022
- 19
- 42
Good CGs can help with a game’s popularity, but they don’t mean anything if people can’t connect to your game.
For me personally, I connect over a well written story and good characters that makes me feel something. If you look at the top games on this site, they all have good writing and a world you can immerse in, and this is where you can really see the devs that pour their heart and soul into a project.
Longevity is important too. Keep working on the game, build a fanbase. patrons will come.
But if someone is just slapping shit together for the money it’s kinda obvious And a turnoff.
For me personally, I connect over a well written story and good characters that makes me feel something. If you look at the top games on this site, they all have good writing and a world you can immerse in, and this is where you can really see the devs that pour their heart and soul into a project.
Longevity is important too. Keep working on the game, build a fanbase. patrons will come.
But if someone is just slapping shit together for the money it’s kinda obvious And a turnoff.
- Sep 4, 2017
- 1,024
- 2,083
I really think that being lucky is mandatory at the end, however there's a lot of things you need to do if you want to provoke that luck.
It's more like :
- I need to make the right choices if I want to be able to become successful.
And not :
- I need to make the right choices to become successful.
People here already gave a lot of valuable advices, but one thing I could say is that releasing your first build right when it's completed isn't the best idea. You should have already more content ready to go since the very first updates and their frequency are at least as much as valuable than the initial release.
It's more like :
- I need to make the right choices if I want to be able to become successful.
And not :
- I need to make the right choices to become successful.
People here already gave a lot of valuable advices, but one thing I could say is that releasing your first build right when it's completed isn't the best idea. You should have already more content ready to go since the very first updates and their frequency are at least as much as valuable than the initial release.
It's important to remember the three Ps (plus marketing, which (I will touch on last):
1. Perseverance
2. Patience
3. Practise
You may not be as successful as you may have hoped with your first project, but if you keep going you will slowly gain an audience. People with, for lack of a better term, "lower quality projects" (as the OP - bumbiee.soft - says), are able to pump out more content precisely because it's lower quality content that takes less time to make, and the more content you have out there, the more likely it is to be spotted. Think of the content farms of YouTube, for example, they are designed to make as much content as possible in the shortest amount of time possible.
If it was not a strategy that worked then they would not do it? But is it a sustainable strategy long-term? Probably not, for a couple of reasons. I believe it is a useful exercise to cast our minds back to the parable of the "Tortoise And The Hare".
Slow and steady does indeed win the race, because if you're trying to pump out as much content as possible in the shortest amount of time possible, you are going to get "burn out". People may have big numbers in the short to medium term but your goal should be to sustain an audience long-term. These "low quality projects" the OP (bumbiee.soft) alludes to probably don't have too much in the way replayability (I am guessing) and may contain other problems underneath the surface, which may not make them sustainable long term, even if superficially they may look good (in the short term).
I've heard it said that Patreon is supposed to be a "marathon" and not a "sprint". I am certainly making an effort to focus on the visuals with my own project, having animated character sprites as much as possible (even if Ren'Py does not make it easy to have animated character sprites). I always have in the back of my mind: "first impressions count". I only get one chance to make a first impression with my project. Of course, I can have good visuals and a crummy script/dialogue but it seems for an adult game visuals matter more (though I want a good script too).
I will need to earn the trust of my target market/audience because my game may take some time to build up to the "sexy stuff". My reasoning is two-fold really. The characters need to get to know each other (as they did not know each other before the game started). Secondly, I really want the player to get to know all of the characters so the feel more invested in the journey. If I jump to the "sexy stuff" right away I don't think it will be savoured as much, kind of like how in a good horror movie, people can appreciate the build up to the climax where the mystery/monster is revealed.
The final thing to mention is the people able to make the "better quality content" may simply be really worse at marketing themselves than somebody making that "lower quality content". If you are good at shouting about yourself at every opportunity, people will listen, even if what you have to say might be nonsense.
1. Perseverance
2. Patience
3. Practise
You may not be as successful as you may have hoped with your first project, but if you keep going you will slowly gain an audience. People with, for lack of a better term, "lower quality projects" (as the OP - bumbiee.soft - says), are able to pump out more content precisely because it's lower quality content that takes less time to make, and the more content you have out there, the more likely it is to be spotted. Think of the content farms of YouTube, for example, they are designed to make as much content as possible in the shortest amount of time possible.
If it was not a strategy that worked then they would not do it? But is it a sustainable strategy long-term? Probably not, for a couple of reasons. I believe it is a useful exercise to cast our minds back to the parable of the "Tortoise And The Hare".
Slow and steady does indeed win the race, because if you're trying to pump out as much content as possible in the shortest amount of time possible, you are going to get "burn out". People may have big numbers in the short to medium term but your goal should be to sustain an audience long-term. These "low quality projects" the OP (bumbiee.soft) alludes to probably don't have too much in the way replayability (I am guessing) and may contain other problems underneath the surface, which may not make them sustainable long term, even if superficially they may look good (in the short term).
I've heard it said that Patreon is supposed to be a "marathon" and not a "sprint". I am certainly making an effort to focus on the visuals with my own project, having animated character sprites as much as possible (even if Ren'Py does not make it easy to have animated character sprites). I always have in the back of my mind: "first impressions count". I only get one chance to make a first impression with my project. Of course, I can have good visuals and a crummy script/dialogue but it seems for an adult game visuals matter more (though I want a good script too).
I will need to earn the trust of my target market/audience because my game may take some time to build up to the "sexy stuff". My reasoning is two-fold really. The characters need to get to know each other (as they did not know each other before the game started). Secondly, I really want the player to get to know all of the characters so the feel more invested in the journey. If I jump to the "sexy stuff" right away I don't think it will be savoured as much, kind of like how in a good horror movie, people can appreciate the build up to the climax where the mystery/monster is revealed.
The final thing to mention is the people able to make the "better quality content" may simply be really worse at marketing themselves than somebody making that "lower quality content". If you are good at shouting about yourself at every opportunity, people will listen, even if what you have to say might be nonsense.
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- Aug 8, 2018
- 1,416
- 5,918
It depends on how you look at it.
I'll take an almost purely market-based view.
Selling point: You need a selling point, something that makes your game stand out from the crowd. This can be a very good story, a well-known franchise, great graphics, exciting gameplay, etc. The more selling points you have, the better. The more selling points you have, the more successful your game will be (probably).
2. become known: All the Selling Points in the world are useless if nobody knows you. Create banners for your game, post actively and try to build a community.
3. know your audience: you need to know who you want to address. If you make a game with very specific content, you will attract fewer players, but they might be willing to commit much more (also financially).
Create a brand: The best developers manage to make their name or the name of their games into a brand. Icstor, for example, stands for rip-off and fraud. Of course, it is better if your own name becomes a positive brand.
Of course, these are only the absolute basics, but every successful company has to fulfil them.
I think it's mostly Marketing.
Because there can never be enough people that heard of your project. And once they hear 7 times (there's some research done into that, google "the rule of 7", I think it's bollocks but that's beyond the point) they are inclined to buy it / try it.
Look at coca cola: it's a horrible product, yet we drink it. They spend insane amounts of money on marketing. Did they improve their product? Not much, no.
People have different standards, and while a lot on this forum will agree that X and Y should be done in this way and not the other way, there are a lot more people that aren't here and / or don't share the same ideas.
Marketing is done by you, by others for you (lets players, etc), and by your product. Once you get people to try it out, if it's rubbish, you lost an opportunity.
And while I agree it should have decent gameplay time, I also think free patreon games are great because they don't need any prerequisite like this to be published. On conventional platforms the publishing time matters A LOT! And once it's out, bye. Good luck getting exposure like that again.
But free patreon games? A little bit when a thread is made about it and put sticky, but not much else (or I'm unaware of any more exposure boost, not sure, been making games for a while but not something based on patreon supporters)
We're gonna publish it with most likely less than 45 min what Droid Productions suggested, and see how it goes. We don't expect ANYTHING, so something above that is a big win for us.
I think the 45 mins is a bit unrealistic because that can be achieved in very annoying and fake ways (bad dialogue just for the sake of it, too long cutscenes for no reason, adding stuff that limits the player "oh it's night, gotta go to bed and do 1 thing tomorrow, maybe in a week [game time] I can get to finish this quest").
Best of luck with your project
Because there can never be enough people that heard of your project. And once they hear 7 times (there's some research done into that, google "the rule of 7", I think it's bollocks but that's beyond the point) they are inclined to buy it / try it.
Look at coca cola: it's a horrible product, yet we drink it. They spend insane amounts of money on marketing. Did they improve their product? Not much, no.
People have different standards, and while a lot on this forum will agree that X and Y should be done in this way and not the other way, there are a lot more people that aren't here and / or don't share the same ideas.
Marketing is done by you, by others for you (lets players, etc), and by your product. Once you get people to try it out, if it's rubbish, you lost an opportunity.
And while I agree it should have decent gameplay time, I also think free patreon games are great because they don't need any prerequisite like this to be published. On conventional platforms the publishing time matters A LOT! And once it's out, bye. Good luck getting exposure like that again.
But free patreon games? A little bit when a thread is made about it and put sticky, but not much else (or I'm unaware of any more exposure boost, not sure, been making games for a while but not something based on patreon supporters)
We're gonna publish it with most likely less than 45 min what Droid Productions suggested, and see how it goes. We don't expect ANYTHING, so something above that is a big win for us.
I think the 45 mins is a bit unrealistic because that can be achieved in very annoying and fake ways (bad dialogue just for the sake of it, too long cutscenes for no reason, adding stuff that limits the player "oh it's night, gotta go to bed and do 1 thing tomorrow, maybe in a week [game time] I can get to finish this quest").
Best of luck with your project
Or inefficient use of resources
I really do wish all games would provide a projected play-time. It's not always going to be perfect (using Steam metrics, Love of Magic has players who've logged 500+ hrs), but I can say "for a normal playthrough, expect 15-20 hrs / book".