What makes each content update enjoyable vs upsetting?

[hakarlman]

When a dev releases an update for their visual novel, it results in praise or backlash.

So what makes for a good content update that pleases all patrons?

edit: I decided to answer to get the conversation going.

Spreading content too thin on every update

An upsetting content update is when the fetish I enjoy is not included. In most cases, this is due to the games content being spread too thin.

Let's say a game is trying to cover 5-6 primary fetishes, but the update only delivers three of those fetishes, this will result in half of patrons being happy and the other half being upset.

I'm thinking that if you focus on a few core niches, and deliver those fetishes consistently every month(or every six weeks), you'll make ALL your patrons happy.

However, let's say most patrons don't mind waiting every other update for content they like, you might be able to get a ton of patrons like that. For example in Seeds of Chaos, the content fetishes are spread all over the place, and there's tons of characters, too many IMO. I could never support that game, because the fetish that I enjoy rarely gets included in every update, but the game has a ton of patron supporters. So it seems possible to still make money by having tons of fetishes, splitting their updates into multiple updates, but I can't stand that.

The conclusion here is if you try to add too many fetishes to your game, and don't give updates catering to that fetish every update, it will result in upset customers who will either wait until the next update or cancel their patron. If you deliver that fetish every month that they like, you'll keep them as patrons, assuming the quality is good of course, in which the following post talks about the importance of quality vs quantity.

 

[anne O'nymous]

So what makes for a good content update that pleases all patrons?

What do you expect as answer exactly ?

What will please all patrons is a long enough update with content enjoyable enough. And that's all, there's no magical recipe, no untold secret.
You can have a 10 minutes long update that will be praised for years, because it was 10 amazing minutes. Like you can have a 2 hours long update that will make you loose all your patrons, because it was 2 hours of bullshit.

You'll probably have a lot of answers after me, and all will be good answers. But I guess that at the end of the day, you'll have to make updates as long as a full game, but released in less than one month. With more story telling than sex, but also more sex that story. With tons of animations, but almost none because they are annoying. Voiced, but without a single bit of sound because it break the immersion. And so on. Simply because we are all different, we all expect something different from a game and its updates.

 

[polywog]

 

[hakarlman]

What do you expect as answer exactly ?

The following answer quote of yours is great:

You can have a 10 minutes long update that will be praised for years, because it was 10 amazing minutes. Like you can have a 2 hours long update that will make you loose all your patrons, because it was 2 hours of bullshit.

This is so true. Quality over Quantity.

edit: I have an existing list of ideas in regards to the topic question, and you drew upon one of them. If everyone responds and gives feedback already on my list, I know I'm on the right track. I'll share the list after.

 

[Domiek]

When a dev releases an update for their visual novel, it results in praise or backlash.

So what makes for a good content update that pleases all patrons?

edit: I decided to answer to get the conversation going.

Spreading content too thin on every update

An upsetting content update is when the fetish I enjoy is not included. In most cases, this is due to the games content being spread too thin.

Let's say a game is trying to cover 5-6 primary fetishes, but the update only delivers three of those fetishes, this will result in half of patrons being happy and the other half being upset.

I'm thinking that if you focus on a few core niches, and deliver those fetishes consistently every month(or every six weeks), you'll make ALL your patrons happy.

However, let's say most patrons don't mind waiting every other update for content they like, you might be able to get a ton of patrons like that. For example in Seeds of Chaos, the content fetishes are spread all over the place, and there's tons of characters, too many IMO. I could never support that game, because the fetish that I enjoy rarely gets included in every update, but the game has a ton of patron supporters. So it seems possible to still make money by having tons of fetishes, splitting their updates into multiple updates, but I can't stand that.

The conclusion here is if you try to add too many fetishes to your game, and don't give updates catering to that fetish every update, it will result in upset customers who will either wait until the next update or cancel their patron. If you deliver that fetish every month that they like, you'll keep them as patrons, assuming the quality is good of course, in which the following post talks about the importance of quality vs quantity.

Your answer sort of shows that it's impossible to make everyone happy with each update. For example, you focus on the fetish specifically while other players may care more about story progression with a specific girl.

For example, I had some users scream NTR a few updates ago because there was a guy lightly involved with a girl we just met. Of course this isn't NTR but don't try to explain it to those people. So just to be troll, I made that same girl be involved with a tranny. Surprisingly, quite a few people want to see more of that tranny now which is the opposite reaction I expected.

The main takeaway is that the dev should focus on what makes them happy and what they would consider a good update. Everything else is purely subjective. Unless of course it took 3 months for an update just to get 100 renders.

 

[RHQuinn]

Unless of course it took 3 months for an update just to get 100 renders.

I'm new to 3D models so maybe I'm reading this wrong but that's a render per day - including mistakes, program/PC crashes, etc - excluding story and possibly extra gameplay, marketing and social media, etc. How many renders per 3 months (or whichever timeframe) would you consider worthwhile?

 

[Domiek]

I'm new to 3D models so maybe I'm reading this wrong but that's a render per day - including mistakes, program/PC crashes, etc - excluding story and possibly extra gameplay, marketing and social media, etc. How many renders per 3 months (or whichever timeframe) would you consider worthwhile?

It all depends on dev skill and equipment. Someone like Philly and Pink can put out a few hundred nice renders in a few weeks because they're insane and talented. Others might only be able to do 80-100 a month due to personal constraints or poor hardware.

However one render per day is pretty troll. Even on crappy equipment it shouldn't take more than an hour to render something unless it's an extremely complicated scene.

 

[khumak]

Personally, I think the problem I see devs run into the most often is either spreading themselves too thin trying to please everyone instead of doing what they're good at, or making a big shift in the direction of the game that most fans of the original "vision" for the game would not be happy with. Whatever sex orientations and body types your original characters had should not be deviated from mid way through the game. What ever types of sex your game originally focused on is what you should keep focusing on.

I also don't think mixing radically different body types makes sense even if you do it from day 1. People who like massive tits and horse dicks want cartoonishly out of proportion characters. People who like realistic proportions are going to be turned off by that and vice versa.

If the first half of the game is packed full of blowjobs or (insert whatever fetish you want here) then that's probably what your fans want. If the game starts off without any NTR, your fans probably don't want to see "their girl" stolen by some BBC you added mid way through the game. If the game starts off without any gay/futa/tranny/etc stuff then hardly any of your fans probably want any of that added later.

In other words, pick your theme and stick to it. Pick an art style and stick with it. Pick your fetishes and stick to them. If you want to focus on new stuff, make a new game that has that stuff in there from the get go.

There could be exceptions like making a game that was specifically designed to be about characters expanding their horizons to include fringe fetishes but that should be clear from day 1 if that's what you're doing.

Most people look at the tags associated with a game and if it has one that's a hard no for them they will never touch it. It doesn't matter how good the game is otherwise. So it doesn't matter if it has futa stuff or whatever their most despised tag is if they never play it. What does matter is if it didn't have that originally and you add it later. Now you've changed a game they like into one that repulses them.

 

[gunderson]

I think the big question a developer has to ask themselves is how they expand to a new fetish without excluding their core audience from likely being able to enjoy the new content.

For example: the "Eve" update to SS. In my experience, most of the core fanbase for that game is either in it for the incest, busty chicks, or schoolgirls. Some of them might clamor for flatter chicks (eww) or for more characters for the main character to bang who aren't their relatives (double eww. Inbreeding ftw!), but that's generally stuff that the main audience can still enjoy on a basic level.

However, a small but vocal contingent of fans ALSO wanted to live out their gay fantasies by banging a female-presenting person who's also a secret dude. But much like an imagined "Kevin" update, that would probably leave a bunch of the core audience feeling excluded because many of us don't actually want to fuck men. So DC's team had the idea of making Eve optionally a transvestite (still definitely a dude and definitely gay content, whatever your feelings about that are) or a kinda flat lady who's just self-conscious about her body based on the player's stated preferences in-game.

The result of this was that, while the "Eve" update didn't overall do much for me personally (I think her appearance change was overall an improvement, face-and-hair-wise, but her story is just kinda boring overall if the new fetishes represented aren't your thing), I at least don't feel excluded. And while there are certainly some people who object to even the possibility of gay sex in their game, I think the consensus is that people are cool with it. The people who want flat chicks are happy, the people who want to have sex with secret dudes are happy, and the people who are mostly in it for incestuous sex with busty relatives but can tolerate vanilla sex with goth stereotypes are...fine. For now.

That being said, at some point you do have to go back and give the core audience what they actually want, or you will start to lose them. Which...maybe next main story update, but probably Annie update, as far as SS is concerned?

In short, and more generally: if you want to expand your fetishes to reach a wider audience, try not to alienate your main fanbase. Few updates are going to make everybody happy, but make sure that every update there is at least something you would expect your core audience to enjoy.

 

[RedPillBlues]

For example, I had some users scream NTR a few updates ago because there was a guy lightly involved with a girl we just met. Of course this isn't NTR but don't try to explain it to those people.

To be fair it wasn't exactly "lightly" as the dude is full on shagging her and you have the option to either join or just fuck off. I would consider lightly as a ass grope or something, but it certainly wasn't NTR.

 

[Domiek]

To be fair it wasn't exactly "lightly" as the dude is full on shagging her and you have the option to either join or just fuck off. I would consider lightly as a ass grope or something, but it certainly wasn't NTR.

They never shagged. It was just a blowie to some guy she barely knows. I meant "lightly involved" as in he's basically a stranger to her, much like Alex at that point Alex is essentially a stranger to MC.

 

[RedPillBlues]

They never shagged. It was just a blowie to some guy she barely knows. I meant "lightly involved" as in he's basically a stranger to her, much like Alex at that point Alex is essentially a stranger to MC.

Wait is that a different dude then in the optional threesome scene?

 

[Domiek]

Wait is that a different dude then in the optional threesome scene?

Both optional threesomes have only MC penetrating Alex. She only ups her dome game on the college douche and the futa (actually a man with tits imo).

 

[Avaron1974]

I am more into my romance stuff so mainly stick to date sim type games and not really into many kinks so the games I play keep me happy regardless of the content.

Those I play outside of my norm like Dom up there and his Personal Trainer, I play because the writing makes me laugh and he has a good sense of humour. Also some of the characters are awesome like Jenna.

Ultimately if a dev enjoys what he/she is doing then i'll enjoy playing it.

I don't expect or demand anything from updates because these are amateur devs. Some do it for a hobby, some to learn and others to supplement income. Whatever the reason they rarely have teams or high end hardware so i'm not expecting miracles.

I just want something i'll enjoy going through.

I've never given a shit about release schedules. Devs I like release somewhere between every 2 to 9 months.

 

[khumak]

I've never given a shit about release schedules. Devs I like release somewhere between every 2 to 9 months.

Personally, I think most devs would be better off without any release schedule. Just plan your updates so that they can be released in reasonable sized chunks with a new location/event/whatever that is actually complete. Doesn't really matter if that takes 3 days or 3 months.

I would much rather see an erratic release pattern where each new version had new stuff to do where the characters were all finished, the events all worked, the rewards for completing stuff was all implemented, etc rather than a scheduled release after 4 weeks or 6 weeks or whatever arbitrary number was being used but where some characters don't have any dialog or some events literally just have something that says "not implemented yet" or "placeholder" or whatever.

If it's not done yet, keep working on it or scale it back temporarily. Remove the stuff that's not finished yet and release with only the content that's actually finished. That doesn't mean go dark for 6 months if you run into problems and leave your fans wondering if you got hit by a bus. Let your fans know what's going on and throw them a bone once in awhile in the form of some teaser shots or whatever. Maybe an intro scene to some new event you're working on.

 

[polywog]

What so bad about upsetting people? Trying to please everyone all the time is unsustainable.
You were there for the landlady in her time of need... when she was diagnosed with that terminal illness.
You weren't just taking, you were giving back. She needed your strength, she didn't need sympathy, she needed you to make her feel alive one last time, not some whiny ass player who'd walk out and leave her to die alone.

Remember the time you shared, and don't be mad that she didn't leave you the building in her will. Honor her memory, don't cheapen it by reducing it to some transaction that makes you feel like a prostitute. Is it such a bad thing that she gave the apartment building to her hot sister that doesn't have cancer, and her daughters?

Life isn't always fair, and it would suck if every day went without rain.

 

[RedPillBlues]

I've never given a shit about release schedules. Devs I like release somewhere between every 2 to 9 months.

Speaking of releases, apparently dragon date is due for a new "Demo" (lmao) in the beginning of November. I wonder how that will go.

 

[ImperialD]

when updates get released ,, doesn't really matter to me ,, as long as they give us an update .. only thing i really really don't like are cliffhangers when things are going great ... wait till next update urghhhhhh .. sorry i know everyone probably feels like this also

 

[Avaron1974]

Speaking of releases, apparently dragon date is due for a new "Demo" (lmao) in the beginning of November. I wonder how that will go.

I find it hilarious we're so far beyond every launch date given and the best they can come back with is "hey, new demo".

I want to be angry with them but it just made me laugh.

They must know by now nobody is going to leave a good review if they ever do launch and any future project is already up shit creek without a paddle.

The worst part is it looks like it could have been amazing in the hands of someone competent.

 

[HopesGaming]

As a dev, you never really know how an update/first release will be perceived. You just have to do what you believe is great and is of quality.
Of course, you can play it safe and make an update that you know will be perceived well but that will never be an "amazing" update. Sometimes you have to add something extra to the mix. Be daring and take the jump. Be that with a specific fetish that hasn't been in the game yet or a specific style of storytelling that may or may not upset people.