What would you say are the most historically significant adult games?

[Hagatagar]

Skyrim and any other game that got their lewdness modded into are not meant for this list. Even games like GTA, Mass Effect or Baldurs Gate 3 doesn't belong in here, as they are not adult games in the porn way.

It's about porn games, so games where a significant part of its meaning is sex or at least nudity. So it's pointless discussing them here.



EstadoYSociedadGriegos
Yes, Violated Heroine, Sim Brothel (the original from Teferus not one of the clones) and Milfy City could go on the list too.

Violated Heroine: Is AFAIK the first really big RPGmaker porn game, but it also uses the battlefuck/lose and impregnation mechanics as actual game mechnanics, not just a means for lewd imagery. They were also the ones who made lewd status screens popular.

Sim Brothel (from Teferus): Also known as Java Sim Brothel or JaSBro. The original is a flash game and got the brothel genre going and thus caused a huge wave of similar games. But good luck finding more about it, it's burried under all the other ones.

Milfy City: I would say that they brought the western (ren'py DAZ) VN scene into the mainstream porn game scene. Many people discovered these games through Milfy City. And unlike Dating my Daughter or Big Brother, Milfy City has no (implied) incest in its name and was therefore much more accessible to mainstream people.

I think Free Cities can also go on the list, being a huge html sim game which is probably the one that got the complicated html games on the map. Prior to that, html games were mostly normal visual novels.

Another one is Girl Life. AFAIK they are the first in the way they actually try to "simulate" all kinds of life aspects as stats and attributes not just as simple one way values. Alos it being a real porn game with tons of content.

I think "

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" from 1982 should be on here too, the very first of its kind and opened the doors for nudity in casual games and typical dad game.


An honorable mention could probably go to the

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(dress up paper dolls), while they are not real porn games, you can undress the girls there and many of them are actually naked then. It was the poor mans nsfw game back then and by the sheer fact that the girls could go naked actually a huge deal.
Oh, and some took the extra steps to make it interactive. So if you wanted to pull away the underwear, they blushed. Some even added animations, like boob jiggle or an opening vagina if you click on them and even adding moan sounds or a different image if clicked too often on their private parts.

 

[APoc1]

I feel like maybe were looking at the wrong thing when it comes to influence. First off the premise of the thread need's more definition for which generation are you looking at or is this the start of the industry (if one can call porn games in the early days an industry)

if its the starting years then I would say it nearly impossible to pin the rise of porn games on any one game or even a group of them but rather the platforms on which they came out availability to greater masses than just computer geeks and the tiny number of otaku's who were really at the heart of the beginnings.

IMO its not entirely the games but how you were able to access them to me things took off when flash became ubiquitous on the interwebs. If you think about it before flash you had to buy/pirate(if even possible) have a machine to play it on (many games believe it or not were released on counsels not just PC's) , this kept the industry niche but when flash hit shit exploded now every noob who could run a browser could run a porn game and yes a shit ton of them were total shit but some were amazing like Slave Maker. Again though we talking early years some of you twats were not even born then so its really a generational thing younger folks will grav towards newer games... older will feel like its there games and so on and on .....

 

[ciaqoo]

... if you want to talk about some historically insignificant but great games you can always start a thread for it.

No I dont want to talk about insignificant but still great games. I would like to talk about current games which possibly in not far future will be recognized as historically significant cos they are marking now new trends.
And not just about games but tools , engines etc. But maybe starting new thread for this kind related topic is good idea.
It is more speculative topic cos we dont now for sure even near future now but for the same reason more interesting for me.
I'm not interesed in long distant history. I think last ten years is enough timespan of history. And we should keep in mind what tools were behind those games and for which hardware they were designed.
Hardware is evolwing at really fast pace, so ten years maybe max fifteen. Older games than that it should be separate "ancient" category imho cos hardware was radically differernt.

 

[ciaqoo]

Milfy City: I would say that they brought the western (ren'py DAZ) VN scene into the mainstream porn game scene. Many people discovered these games through Milfy City.

It is good game but i dont think it is historically significant. It is based on limited resources like most grinders.
I would call AWAM historically significant despite it is censored VN and developed at slow pace. But visuals are great and rich of ideas
edit
I would add The Point of No Return - multipath VN for RenPy created without variables.
Maybe it is not super duper game but for this one reason it is very different than other RenPy games. It is very good example how to resuse a lot of content without forcing player for grinding.

 

[Hagatagar]

I'm not interesed in long distant history. I think last ten years is enough timespan of history. And we should keep in mind what tools were behind those games and for which hardware they were designed.
Hardware is evolwing at really fast pace, so ten years maybe max fifteen. Older games than that it should be separate "ancient" category imho cos hardware was radically differernt.

Yes, let's forget history and just focus on the now, never learn from the past!

It is good game but i dont think it is historically significant. It is based on limited resources like most grinders.
I would call AWAM historically significant despite it is censored VN and developed at slow pace. But visuals are great and rich of ideas

This is not about if a game is good or not or which are someones favorites.
Milfy City is one of the big ones that put western VNs on the map. Not only was MC the bait to lure non typical porn gamers in, it and a few others solidified the typical DAZ look in the western VN scene, so that many expect the DAZ look in those games.

 

[Ecl1p5e]

Demon Girl by LineMarvel. Probably the first porn game ever experienced by people browsing casually through Newgrounds in the mid-2000s, and I think it inspired a handful of similar "run-or-rape" style games like it, like KoooonSoft's Angel Girl X, Shinobi Girl, Witch Girl, Warrior Girl, Kung-fu Girl etc.

 

[ciaqoo]

Yes, let's forget history and just focus on the now, never learn from the past!


This is not about if a game is good or not or which are someones favorites.
Milfy City is one of the big ones that put western VNs on the map. Not only was MC the bait to lure non typical porn gamers in, it and a few others solidified the typical DAZ look in the western VN scene, so that many expect the DAZ look in those games.

Making a mapped big grinder from VN is not yet historically significant achievent imho.
If it was transformation in reverse direction - from grinder into pure VN - I would call it historically significant and trendy achievment.
I'm not calling to forget history. Ten to fifteen years of modern history is enough times span - older games are not a modern history - they are ancient prehistory.

Games are not just movies or comic books. Modern games are designed for modern hardware. And modern hardware allowing to create high quality visuals at faster pace than before.

 

[whowhawhy]

movies are not just like games. modern movies are designed for modern resolutions. and modern resolutions allow to create high quality visuals at faster pace than before.

(apologies, had to chip in)

 

[Hagatagar]

Making a mapped big grinder from VN is not yet historically significant achievent imho.

Again, it's neither about the content of the game nor its quality.
Significance in history comes from its impact and whether you like it on not, Milfy City did have a bigger one.
And something else to add to the list of it's significance. Its creator is the western porn game embodiment of an milker dev.

Look at 2girls1cup (which fortunately I have never seen and yet I know about it), it's literally shit with no significance at all on its own, but it made an impact nonetheless.

 

[ciaqoo]

movies are not just like games. modern movies are designed for modern resolutions. and modern resolutions allow to create high quality visuals at faster pace than before.

Resolutions ??? 30 years old advanced cinema movies had the same resolutions as we are using now. You cant say the same about games.
I'm not sure if you are really know what you are talking about.

 

[tooldev]

Again, it's neither about the content of the game nor its quality.
Significance in history comes from its impact and whether you like it on not, Milfy City did have a bigger one.
And something else to add to the list of it's significance. Its creator is the western porn game embodiment of an milker dev.

Look at 2girls1cup (which fortunately I have never seen and yet I know about it), it's literally shit with no significance at all on its own, but it made an impact nonetheless.

I think you have a very distorted view on 'history'. History is done and finished. It doesnt change anymore. A lot of the examples you deem 'historically important' have either never been finished, are still in development or something of a mixed bag of both of those.

Especially 'games' like MILFY or BADIK have no place on the list, as the 'map' you are talking about is your very own view of the world but it is not a neutrally agreed view on the history of games at all. VNs have their base pretty much in Asia and any 'western' version owes its existence basically to them. That is what makes them examples of a genre but not historically relevant.

You cant throw words like 'impact' out and expect to be taken serious with your effort, if you dont define properly what impact means. That is pretty much the same bullshit, like the USA making lists over 'most influential people' and then seriously listing movie actors on those lists. Number of views on F95 or reviews means nothing in terms of a 'historical impact'.

 

[ciaqoo]

Again, it's neither about the content of the game nor its quality.
Significance in history comes from its impact and whether you like it on not, Milfy City did have a bigger one.
And something else to add to the list of it's significance. Its creator is the western porn game embodiment of an milker dev.

Look at 2girls1cup (which fortunately I have never seen and yet I know about it), it's literally shit with no significance at all on its own, but it made an impact nonetheless.

Impact ???
How many mods was for this grinder alone ?
If it had any impact for me - it was my experience to avoid grinders even if they had some good quality visual content inside.
So it was rather negative impact than positive one.
I wouldnt call it significant. Mapped grinders are inheritance from ancient prehistoric times when available resources like memory were very limited. In such envinronment designing game as a grinder had a sense. Cos other way games were few minutes short at best case.

 

[whowhawhy]

Resolutions ??? 30 years old advanced cinema movies had the same resolutions as we are using now. You cant say the same about games.
I'm not sure if you are really know what you are talking about.

i put zero effort in that remark, but your take was very similar to what can be seen with movies/tv. there are people among movie watchers who ignore the past and consider any movie older than 5-10-15 years boring ancient history not worthy any attention, or chase after audiovisual side of it rather than the story (which is reflected in constant upgrades of their home cinema), especially after the world has downgraded switched to digital. try convincing an average person to watch something from the 30s-40s (without a modern remaster or colorization), or even that that stuff can be enjoyable now.


with games hardware often doesn't matter, for older stuff there's emulation, virtualization, backwards compatibility, even keeping an older machine if you're more into it, and games can work out of the box dedades later too. plus both 30 years ago and now you have both games that try to push technology to its limit for eye candy or sheer quantity of content, and games that rely on niche stuff like aesthetics, gameplay, story, which doesn't become outdated with technological progress.

 

[whowhawhy]

History is done and finished. It doesnt change anymore.

if we consider history as something seen from our perspective, it's quite dynamic (discovering things that contradict what we've previously known about something or just were unaware of, attempts to erase stuff from history, etc.). and there's a lot of undocumented stuff regarding earlier days of gaming that's worth pursuing while the people who know something about them are still alive.

 

[tooldev]

if we consider history as something seen from our perspective, it's quite dynamic (discovering things that contradict what we've previously known about something or just were unaware of, attempts to erase stuff from history, etc.). and there's a lot of undocumented stuff regarding earlier days of gaming that's worth pursuing while the people who know something about them are still alive.

You cant pick things out of context, since it is important. For your quote especially as it refers to finished games in particular.

And no - history isnt dynamic, just knowledge might be limited. The event, person, place etc doesnt change anymore.

 

[Hagatagar]

History is done and finished. It doesnt change anymore.

Of course, but any significancy can only be determined afterwards. Some historical events are easy to identify while they happen, but many can only be confirmed after its impact has been played out.

as the 'map' you are talking about

Not sure what you mean by that.

is your very own view of the world but it is not a neutrally agreed view on the history of games at all.

Nothing has a "neutrally agreed view" neither does yours, its as biased and subjective as mine.

VNs have their base pretty much in Asia and any 'western' version owes its existence basically to them. That is what makes them examples of a genre but not historically relevant.

In no way or form I denied or even questioned that.
OPs list is clearly from a western point of view and thus all my suggestions as well.

You cant throw words like 'impact' out and expect to be taken serious with your effort, if you dont define properly what impact means.

I have to explain what impact in history means? Really?
First of all all my posts were in relation the the OP, not anything greater or even "belongs in the library of Alexandria".

In terms of porn games, games that changed things in the porn game scene in any (bigger) sort of way.
Pretty much the same as in real history.

That is pretty much the same bullshit, like the USA making lists over 'most influential people' and then seriously listing movie actors on those lists.

The US is extremly US centric, of course those kind of things will be about stuff they know. Nobody who buys magazines that lists influential people over there want to read about some chinese businessman or an european politician. And nobody that's not in the US cares about those lists. Its about making money, you can't make money with stuff that don't interest anyone where you sell your stuff.

Number of views on F95 or reviews means nothing in terms of a 'historical impact'.

Also nothing I mentioned or referred to.

Impact ???
How many mods was for this grinder alone ?
If it had any impact for me - it was my experience to avoid grinders even if they had some good quality visual content inside.
So it was rather negative impact than positive one.
I wouldnt call it significant. Mapped grinders are inheritance from ancient prehistoric times when available resources like memory were very limited. In such envinronment designing game as a grinder had a sense. Cos other way games were few minutes short at best case.

Still focusing on the content and quality of the game. It's not about that, it doesn't matter how shitty the game is.


Milfy City is one of the typical games that western gamers name when they are listing the games that got them into porn games.
The dev made tons of money in the practically non existent western porn game market, thanks to the popularity of MC.

Is the Mariah Carey christmas song good? Nope. Did it had an inpact on the music and christmas "history"? Yes, it's 30 years old and still one of the top played and even sold songs on Christmas.

It's really funny how pissed off some people get, when someone mentions a game like Milfy City without activly shitting on it.

 

[anne O'nymous]

An honorable mention could probably go to the

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(dress up paper dolls), while they are not real porn games, you can undress the girls there and many of them are actually naked then. It was the poor mans nsfw game back then and by the sheer fact that the girls could go naked actually a huge deal.
Oh, and some took the extra steps to make it interactive. So if you wanted to pull away the underwear, they blushed. Some even added animations, like boob jiggle or an opening vagina if you click on them and even adding moan sounds or a different image if clicked too often on their private parts.

There's some porn content for KiSS in top of the one you talk about. It was really cheap and limited, but I remember a set where you could follow a "kidnap and torture to corrupt" scenario, using sex toys and BDSM items that, if used correctly, would lead you to a final state where the girl had a really lewd expression.
But it happened in the same time that Flash was rising in the adult gaming scene, so most creators goes for Flash that offered more possibilities.

 

[anne O'nymous]

[sorry for the double post]

IMO its not entirely the games but how you were able to access them to me things took off when flash became ubiquitous on the interwebs. If you think about it before flash you had to buy/pirate(if even possible) have a machine to play it on (many games believe it or not were released on counsels not just PC's) , this kept the industry niche but when flash hit shit exploded now every noob who could run a browser could run a porn game and yes a shit ton of them were total shit but some were amazing like Slave Maker.

What kept the industry as a niche was more the fact that real porn "games" were only available in sex shops. When the XXX studios were doing their "games" (that were mostly

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interfaces, or similar, to select short movies through a porn movie level story) in the mid-late 90's, you had to go to a sex shop to buy them, or be lucky enough to live in a country more open minded and then you had few magazines dedicated to this.
In parallel there were Japanese games including porn content or fully dedicated to it. But for most of them you had to import them from Japan. And if you were lucky you had one that include an English translation.

It's there, and through those games, that porn really entered the video gaming industry. But as you said, it's nearly impossible to select a single game as moment when it started to rise. Even the most stupid and basic none kinetic novel made with Ren'Py is 10 times more advanced that the "games" made by XXX studios during this period. Then, probably due to piracy with Internet rise, suddenly both XXX studios and Japanese games studios stopped to do games; not totally for Japanese games studios, but they kind of disappeared from the radar for the biggest part of the world.

Yet, without two events I'm not sure that Flash porn games would have risen so quickly. They filled a void, and anyone around 30yo or more that knew about those games where more than happy to have those Flash replacement, whatever how more cheap they were at starts. Then, by extension, would nowadays adult gaming scene have been the same?
Like Hagatagar implied, there were a transition period between the Flash era and nowadays. A period where we had games like the original Sim Bro. Still basic because relying on Flash, but better than the average Flash content that we used to have. And like those games made money, it decided some creators to try their luck with other game engines like RPG Maker and later Ren'Py.

There's some games that marked us and stay in our memory, but can they really be described as significant for the adult gaming scene?
I mean, what was the said scene before f95Zone? A bunch of forum that you discover almost by chance and that only presented a small portion of what existed. There were Newsgrounds of course, but it was, and still mostly is, dedicated to Flash, and therefore only presented a selection of what existed. If you wanted to play Japanese adult games, you had to go somewhere else. If you wanted to play games like CoC, you had to go yet to another place, and so on. Then F95Zone appeared, and from a single place you had access to all this and more.

So, in the end, if there's something that really had a significant historical impact on adult games, I'm tempted to say that it's not a game, but a forum... this one.

 

[tooldev]

[sorry for the double post]


So, in the end, if there's something that really had a significant historical impact on adult games, I'm tempted to say that it's not a game, but a forum... this one.

TFG has been around for at least as long as F95, probably longer. So in terms of quantity they had been quite ahead, despite the special focus of many games on there.

We are throwing around words here , without ever defining any of them to get a consensus. What defines a porn game? I mentioned all those strip poker games from back in the 80s and 90s. Some used static images while others actually used full movies of amateur models (I had part in one of those as well, since there was nothing like porn sites with massive content around at that time, where one could 'borrow' stuff).

Most 'lewd' games build on regular games success or mechanics. That's it. Not a single lewd game comes to mind that was really doing anything spectacular new. VNs are just pepped up novels and we had choose-your-own-adventure long before them as well. Sim games use what other sim games did before them , just the setting is being changed. And so on....

 

[anne O'nymous]

TFG has been around for at least as long as F95, probably longer.

TFgames was created four years before F95Zone but, as its name say, it focus on transformation games, that don't even need to have adult content. And, of course, it's also not a piracy site; if a game is listed on TFGames, it's because its author wanted it.
Therefore, it's the perfect illustration of what I was saying. Before F95Zone peoples had to follow a bunch of different sites (and to know that they exist) in order to get a, more or less complete, overview of the adult gaming scene.

So in terms of quantity they had been quite ahead, despite the special focus of many games on there.

So ahead that there's 2,222 games available on TFGames (and half of them are demos that were never continued because no one was interested by them), against near to 20,000 here. There's more new games on F95Zone each year, than there's games on TFGames.
Not that it's a bad site, it's just a purely dedicated one. If you like transformation games, it's a place where you should be, but if what you want is adult games, then it's not the place for you.

What defines a porn game?

It doesn't matters, because it wouldn't change what I said.

Is a porn text RPG game distributed through BBS in the 80's a porn game or not? Who care? Nobody except twenty thousands peoples at max ever heard about it.
Is a Flash "select the fucking animation" games a porn game? Is it even a game? Who care? Nobody except two hundreds of thousands peoples at max ever heard about it. Same goes for the Meet'N'Fuck series by example.
And anyway, peoples can't even agree if Ren'Py CYOA games really are games or not, nor can they agree if platform games with fuck on loose really are games.
Yet there's one thing on which they all agree: As long as it's entertaining and kind of interactive, with some lewd content inside, let's say that it's kind of an adult game.

But in the end it don't permit to get a significant list of games because previous to F95Zone, only Leisure Suit Larry series were actually known from a majority. It's far to be the only game with adult content, and not even the only game made by what we would now call a AAA studio. But it's the only game that every kind of press dedicated to gaming talked about. All the other were more kept in their niche, either being a Japanese curiosity or something you should probably hear about but should you really play it?

Hagatagar talked about Sim Bro, personally it's Rack that stayed in my memory. And if you ask someone else that played those games, you'll get yet another answer because what games marked us depend on what site we used to be a regular user.
All of them had an impact on the adult gaming scene, but not a single one can pretend to be the game that had an impact on it.
Abandoned: A tale of forgotten lives is among the very first real time 3D adult games. Yet, can someone say that it, or one of the few that preceded, had an impact on the scene? No... It shown that it was something possible, but that's all.

And starting there, the question isn't "what is an adult game", but "what being historically significant mean".

Not a single lewd game comes to mind that was really doing anything spectacular new. VNs are just pepped up novels and we had choose-your-own-adventure long before them as well. Sim games use what other sim games did before them , just the setting is being changed. And so on....

It's funny because you clearly believe what you say, talking about porn games like there weren't open world games made with Unity or Unreal, platform games, and in fact all games that aren't VN or date sims.
What doesn't change the fact that, like 95% of "regular games", they invented nothing, but it still raise question...