Where are games with modern advanced AI?

[morphnet]

The first issue can be solved by only agro-ing if the source of damage was from a player, who is the only one who would be intentionally attack their allies. If there's meant to be "spy" npcs, just switch their teams once they betray their side.

The second can be solved by just having the boss be in an arena that can only be exited once they are defeated.

Of course both of these issues are basically only seen in real-time open world RPGs. A player can't just "run away from the boss" in an arena fighter. It's much easier to forsee how the player will interact with the enviroment and NPCs in genres other than 3D RPGs.


I'd say 300 is where you begin to reach "really large number". Also, I think the units in Arma are usually not all fighting at once.



Well obviously it won't work for everything, but every game has a way to check line of sight. It's not literal line of sight, it's just checking if a beam can be fired (often multiple in case a tiny object in in the way) from one object to another with nothing in-between it. I mean, as long as the enviroment is actually meant to represent how the game world looks like, not like a board game.


It's only part of how the bots would plan their actions. Like I didn't mention the bots would make sure they wouldn't run into the boundaries of the field, but it's implied.


As I said, I don't know how FIFA works. An example of taking an "action accordingly" is an NPC in a fighting game deciding which move to hit you with if you've missed an attack and are going through endlag. Slower moves are often better combo starters, but obviously slower, so the NPC takes the strongest move they can succesfully land.


Physics is complex, I shouldn't really have to explain why it is, but basically it has to calculate impacts, drag, acceleration, countless other things every physics step which is usually around 30-60 times a second.


RPGs are a genre popular enough to match FPS games in number. Puzzle games are pretty big, especially in the indie scene. A good number of shooters have simple NPCs too, like the Doom series.


So in a visual novel for example, the player is the one driving the story by completing actions to progress or making choices in dialogue or whatever. NPCs don't answer the dialogue prompt for you there.

Another example is a managment game like Lobotomy Corporation. The player commands the agents around, who are NPCs. While the NPCs all have healthbar, a position in the game world, and a character, the player is not simulated apart from the menus you can use to command agents.

Except now you are moving further and further away from the original topic. Where are games with modern advanced ai, your ideas and suggestions, while many were / are good only make the bots / ai less than they are now.

You also need to remember that apart from trying to refine scripts etc. studios have tried many other things too, from building and using in house engines to using new coding language as it comes out. The bottle neck always seems to come down unfortunately to processing power.

 

[nulnil]

Except now you are moving further and further away from the original topic. Where are games with modern advanced ai, your ideas and suggestions, while many were / are good only make the bots / ai less than they are now.

You also need to remember that apart from trying to refine scripts etc. studios have tried many other things too, from building and using in house engines to using new coding language as it comes out. The bottle neck always seems to come down unfortunately to processing power.

The original post asks why games don't use cloud support or machine learning to improve the logic of bots. The issue is that creating more complex bots has nothing to do having tons of processing power or the cloud, it's actually about developers creating more behaviors and ways information is processed. More importantly bots need more game mechanics in the first place to be even have the capacity to be more complex. A tic-tac-toe bot can always play perfectly but isn't complex because the game itself is simple.

Though video games are often far more complex than tic-tac-toe, bots can are still restricted to what the game allows them to do. A bot in an FPS can't shoot grenades out of the air unless they're given the behavior to do so, and the game mechanics allow it to be possible.

 

[skyblueaster]

There was already very good AI in the 2000s. AI as a concept is not exactly new, but it being used to generate passable art is “new.”
AAA developers don’t actually want to raise the bar, because they don’t want you getting used to good products.

That’s why newer iterations of games are usually side-grades now, with “new” features replacing “old features,” instead of being overall improved. And the funny part is that the “new features” are occasionally just old features re-introduced back in.

 

[morphnet]

The issue is that creating more complex bots has nothing to do having tons of processing power or the cloud, it's actually about developers creating more behaviors and ways information is processed.

As I have said before you are incorrect here.

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"The new architecture also improves power efficiency. You’ll likely see longer battery life in laptops and lower power consumption in desktops. Zen 5 introduces advanced AI acceleration capabilities. This could enhance gaming experiences through better NPCs and more realistic physics. "

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" Ultimately, it is telling that current NPC implementations in AI games research such as QuakeBot or GameBots (Adobbati et al 01) require a separate CPU for each NPC. "

You can easily search for this information and more.

 

[nulnil]

As I have said before you are incorrect here.

Let me correct "has nothing to do with..." to "is a small factor in...".

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"The new architecture also improves power efficiency. You’ll likely see longer battery life in laptops and lower power consumption in desktops. Zen 5 introduces advanced AI acceleration capabilities. This could enhance gaming experiences through better NPCs and more realistic physics. "

Also, COULD. Not "has".

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This boils down to how complex and how optimized the NPCs are in Baldurs Gate 3 (which I haven't played).

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" Ultimately, it is telling that current NPC implementations in AI games research such as QuakeBot or GameBots (Adobbati et al 01) require a separate CPU for each NPC. "

You can easily search for this information and more.

Though there is no date on the article, the most recent source is from 24 years ago. Games and computers have changed a lot since then.


I don't know if you develop games, but let me tell you something. It becomes exponentially harder to add more routines and behaviors to an NPC with each one you add. Especially when you reach the level where you're trying to make the NPC act in a way that's logical, like retreat if too injured, or if the threat is overwhelming, or if low on resources, ect. You can see yourself there are many possible conditions for when an NPC should retreat. With more behaviors, like when to play aggressive or defensive, you will have to consider them when making the conditions for other behaviors.

 

[morphnet]

Let me correct "has nothing to do with..." to "is a small factor in...".


Also, COULD. Not "has".


This boils down to how complex and how optimized the NPCs are in Baldurs Gate 3 (which I haven't played).


Though there is no date on the article, the most recent source is from 24 years ago. Games and computers have changed a lot since then.


I don't know if you develop games, but let me tell you something. It becomes exponentially harder to add more routines and behaviors to an NPC with each one you add. Especially when you reach the level where you're trying to make the NPC act in a way that's logical, like retreat if too injured, or if the threat is overwhelming, or if low on resources, ect. You can see yourself there are many possible conditions for when an NPC should retreat. With more behaviors, like when to play aggressive or defensive, you will have to consider them when making the conditions for other behaviors.

Your replies continue to confuse me, games with npc's ranging from simple to complex exist. This is NOT a theoretical / hypothetical discussion, they have been made and how they were made and what they use (hardware and software wise) is a matter of record and fact.

It doesn't matter in how many different ways or how many times you claim it is not the case, the facts are the facts.

 

[nulnil]

Your replies continue to confuse me, games with npc's ranging from simple to complex exist.

You're the one who doesn't seem to be understanding, and now you're straying from the topic.

Let me put this in extremely simple terms.

Processing power is a small factor in how complex an NPC is. Usually, the reason why NPCs has not advanced like graphics have is because they are made by human developers who need to brainstorm how the NPC will behave, and because game genres and mechanics have not grown as complex as graphics have.

If you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you.

This is NOT a theoretical / hypothetical discussion, they have been made and how they were made and what they use (hardware and software wise) is a matter of record and fact.

You're the one who brought up an article talking about hypotheticals. Second, you used Baldur's Gate 3's NPCs as an example of processing power as a limiting factor but it also appears you don't even know how performant the NPCs are in the first place.

That's like saying, "Don't eat too many apples, someone died after eating too many". How many did they eat? 10? 200? A billion? Were the apples laced with cyanide?

You talk about facts, but you've failed to even provide any.

 

[morphnet]

You're the one who doesn't seem to be understanding, and now you're straying from the topic.

Let me put this in extremely simple terms.

Processing power is a small factor in how complex an NPC is. Usually, the reason why NPCs has not advanced like graphics have is because they are made by human developers who need to brainstorm how the NPC will behave, and because game genres and mechanics have not grown as complex as graphics have.

If you can't understand that, I don't know what to tell you.


You're the one who brought up an article talking about hypotheticals. Second, you used Baldur's Gate 3's NPCs as an example of processing power as a limiting factor but it also appears you don't even know how performant the NPCs are in the first place.

That's like saying, "Don't eat too many apples, someone died after eating too many". How many did they eat? 10? 200? A billion? Were the apples laced with cyanide?

You talk about facts, but you've failed to even provide any.

The topic here is "where are games with modern advanced ai", for context that means we are working with a timeline of past games to present games.

The articles I provided gave information on npc's, CPU's, games affected by the reason that was given, not by me but by developers and studios. They are the ones who have said how CPU intensive npc's are, that CPU's are the bottleneck in advancing to better NPC's.

These are NOT my opinions but information I am relaying directly from the source.

So far you have yet to source anything to back up you opinion and right now that is all it is, an opinion, whereas I have sourced actual information from the industry and I will source more in this reply.

You're the one who doesn't seem to be understanding, and now you're straying from the topic.

Let me put this in extremely simple terms.

Processing power is a small factor in how complex an NPC is.

Well on the one hand we have you switching what you are saying from

"has nothing to do with..." to "is a small factor in...".

On the other hand we have the technical directors behind Total War: THREE KINGDOMS and HITMAN 2 who say it is a huge factor.

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Now of the three, I'm going to take the technical directors professional, educated and backed by work experience statements over your unsourced opinion every time.

Usually, the reason why NPCs has not advanced like graphics have is because they are made by human developers who need to brainstorm how the NPC will behave, and because game genres and mechanics have not grown as complex as graphics have.

In order to understand what the problem is, you first have to understand how, why, things work.
You have and are showing you do not understand the how, why and so your opinion is based on inaccurate information.
Looking at the above quote you have ALL the basics wrong.

You're the one who brought up an article talking about hypotheticals.

Did you read the articles AND apply them to the topic and in it's context?

Second, you used Baldur's Gate 3's NPCs as an example of processing power as a limiting factor but it also appears you don't even know how performant the NPCs are in the first place.

Did you read the articles AND apply them to the topic and in it's context?

That's like saying, "Don't eat too many apples, someone died after eating too many". How many did they eat? 10? 200? A billion? Were the apples laced with cyanide?

As far as analogies go, that is one of the worse I've read but does go aways in explaining how you think and why you have gotten so many things wrong here...

A more accurate analogy would be something like this...

A person asks why aren't cars much faster today than 10 years ago,
I say "it's the engine that is the problem"
You claim "it's the tires because they haven't advanced as much as the bodywork and the engine has nothing to do with, is a small factor"

I'll end the reply with the words at the end of that article I linked, hopefully you'll take it to heart....

"Gaming with a Sharper Eye
In short, CPUs manage a multitude of elements that make gameplay more realistic and make world-building more comprehensive. Knowing exactly how CPUs affect your gaming experience, however, makes you both a better PC owner and a more conscientious gamer."

 

[housekinokuni1974]

once again i precise i dont have any knowledge about this, whats your opinion on the last GTA5 videos on yt made by the IA