Why are so many AVN protagonist so pathetic?

[Lasse.9]

I don't get why AVN developers love to make the MC so pathetic and desperate.
In a lot of games the protagonist is, to put it bluntly, a single-minded pussy.
Often they only focus on sex, and that is fine, but so often they desperately chase that slim chance of pussy while portraying themselves very negatively. If those protagonist were real, they would be repulsive to most women.
for some games the pathetic behavior of the MC is central to the story and the writer is well-aware and acknowledge it. But some games have those pathetic protagonists, but writing tries to portray that they are just cool, manly, dominant and confident, even though they clearly ain't and are more like the exact opposite.

why do they not make more their protagonist be more decent, normal and likeable.
the developers can make pretty much anything they want in game come true, so why not make decent protagonist who are actually likeable?
is the pathetic and desperate virgins just more relatable to the creators and players, and do they just not realizing how the MC actually behaves?

 

[Glib_Gentleman]

I think some of it may be trope bleed-over from some of the original games this genre was based off of, like the Leisure Suit Larry series, and Japanese ADV games where the protagonist is a miserable and pathetic school boy.

Too few devs spend enough time when designing and creating their MCs. They don't consider motivation and goals beyond - "the player will want to bang these hot love interests, so the MC's motivation will be sex! It's perfect!"

Which stems from the larger problem of self-insert MCs. Too many MCs are stuck in the middle, where the dev wants to let the player self-insert into the game by naming the MC, etc., making choices . . . but the player isn't really the MC. The MC has a predefined history, relationships, past, etc. and that all collides with the player self-inserting.

So you end up with this bland middle ground where the dev doesn't give the MC too much personality so as not to conflict with self-inserting players and you just get crap.


IMHO, devs should either completely commit to a self-insert, where you don't see the MC at all and know nothing about them beyond what the player chooses, or devs should commit to well-made, well-written MCs with their own goals, flaws, and personality, where the player can truly inhabitable a ROLE.

There is a reason AAA and even indie devs have moved away from the silent protagonists of the 80s and 90s, and that's because it makes it hard to tell really impactful stories where the main character is the driving force of the action instead of just swept along by the actions of others.

 

[Lasse.9]

I think some of it may be trope bleed-over from some of the original games this genre was based off of, like the Leisure Suit Larry series, and Japanese ADV games where the protagonist is a miserable and pathetic school boy.

Too few devs spend enough time when designing and creating their MCs. They don't consider motivation and goals beyond - "the player will want to bang these hot love interests, so the MC's motivation will be sex! It's perfect!"

Which stems from the larger problem of self-insert MCs. Too many MCs are stuck in the middle, where the dev wants to let the player self-insert into the game by naming the MC, etc., making choices . . . but the player isn't really the MC. The MC has a predefined history, relationships, past, etc. and that all collides with the player self-inserting.

So you end up with this bland middle ground where the dev doesn't give the MC too much personality so as not to conflict with self-inserting players and you just get crap.


IMHO, devs should either completely commit to a self-insert, where you don't see the MC at all and know nothing about them beyond what the player chooses, or devs should commit to well-made, well-written MCs with their own goals, flaws, and personality, where the player can truly inhabitable a ROLE.

There is a reason AAA and even indie devs have moved away from the silent protagonists of the 80s and 90s, and that's because it makes it hard to tell really impactful stories where the main character is the driving force of the action instead of just swept along by the actions of others.

It can be difficult for the writer but I would say it is possible to balance player-choice and built-in MC-personality, and that is how games are best.
the important aspect for that is that the personality has to to be reasonable and understandable for the player, without over-reaching and forcing the player on a certain path

The worst motivation for the MC is when they just want to get laid, and are desperate to achieve that. it makes them seem idiotic when that is the only thing they care about.
Sex can be a fine central theme and goal, but not if that is the only thing they care about. when it is it makes the MC bland and annoying.
the MC is the character that players spend the most time with, yet often it is the least thought through and most 2-dimensional character in the game.

I get sex being a central theme. that makes complete sense. But what I don't get is the often high desperation and hyper-fixation.

 

[anne O'nymous]

It can be difficult for the writer but I would say it is possible to balance player-choice and built-in MC-personality, and that is how games are best.
the important aspect for that is that the personality has to to be reasonable and understandable for the player, without over-reaching and forcing the player on a certain path

The second point make the first one something near to unreachable.

Ask what "reasonable and understandable" MC mean, and you'll see that you'll get a wild variety of answer that don't really have common points. An Italian will not at all describe you the same MC than a Japanese, and none will describe you the same MC than an American.
Therefore, most creators fallback to the expected most known trope, the Hollywood cliché. They are already doing it for their universe. 80% of the MCs live in a Hollywood sitcom city, going to an Hollywood US college or having a Hollywood job where they are payed to just be present. It's the next logical step for them to do the same for their MC.

It lead to relatively blank MCs, but MCs that every player is expected to know about, this whatever culture they come from. It's not a MC that match the expectation from their country, but at least it follow a logic that they learned to recognize and can more or less understand.

The worst motivation for the MC is when they just want to get laid, and are desperate to achieve that.

What is something totally different.

SexBot MC don't have the usual dumb personality (he's more clueless than dumb) yet he's as desperate to get laid than the usual MC. Midlife Crisis MC too only think about getting laid, and is far to be the sharpest knife in the box, yet he have a deeper personality than usual. Both share the exact same motivation than the generic college boy that can be found in too many games, yet they don't have their personality, nor their behavior.
And of course, there's the MCs like WVM one, that pass their time getting laid without even wanting to, what make them looks even more dumb than usual.
There's better example than the three I used, but they come from less known games, and therefore would talk to less readers.

the MC is the character that players spend the most time with, yet often it is the least thought through and most 2-dimensional character in the game.

And despite what it can looks like, they still have too intense and too present thoughts.

Those games aren't games where the player have to feel strong, badass, smart or whatever else you can think about. In such games, yes, the MC need to be deeply thought, because it's through his dialogs and actions that the game will pass those feelings to the player. Duke Nukem don't talk much, but every word he say, and every side action offered to the player, sweat the macho man he is.

But here you are face to games where players are expected to connect with the feelings and emotions projected to the MC, not the one project by him. While being perfectly aware that this is just a virtual fantasy, as player you should have the feeling that at least a small part of that love and lust is directed toward you.
This can't be achieved if the MC have a too strong personality, too rich background story, and/or too marked behavior. The more construct is the MC, the more difficult it will be for the player to feel a connection with the game, and therefore, through the MC, to feel a connection with the Love Interest(s).

Ideally, adult games MC should be totally transparent. But of course this isn't possible, because there's a story, and therefore the MC have to intervene.
Yet, making the MC as flat and blank as possible is the best possible compromise. It intervene in order to make the story progress, but don't think. That part is for the player, it's his responsibility to analyze the situation and draw conclusions. But of course, it lead to some inconsistencies, with the player being possibly few steps forward than the MC in his understanding of the context. Well, it's the price to pay...

 

[woody554]

for the people who know what they're doing: because for most stories it's the most dynamic starting point for the mc's arc, it allows for the most growth. another subset for these guys is making a deliberately creepy mc for certain fetishes, but I suspect you don't mean those.

for the people who don't know what they're doing: it's probably an exaggerated reflection of who they are. there's a LOT of people who are borderline rapists but don't even think they're treating women badly. I mean have you ever asked women you know how many unsolicited dick picks they've seen? -these are the guys who complain about feminism ruining the world when they're asked to reach up for the lowest bar of not being so overtly rapey. asking these guys to write a better character is like talking to a fish.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

why do they not make more their protagonist be more decent, normal and likeable

Because it's harder, and they are shit at writing. The same reason most games are almost-linear VNs and cookie cutter JRPGs. It's the easiest delivery mechanism for the porn they've cooked up. I don't think there's much more depth to it. You've said it yourself, you see writers try to portray their protags as confident and capable, and fail miserably. This is just a bad writer failing to write a compelling story.

There certainly are no careful calculations being made how unremarkable the protag must be to achieve the best balance between audience relatability and story quality. I don't think I can recall a story where all the other elements like plot, other characters and their arcs, dialogue, themes, and just prose on a very base technical level are well-executed, and then the MC is the only sore spot (and it's clearly not made for the laughs, the idiot MC trope is quite different, and it's obvious when you're supposed to laugh at or despise the MC). Maybe someone can give me a counter example, but in my experience if the MC is written badly, then all the other story elements are also crappy.

 

[Fate stay]

Atleast they have a Big Cock

 

[Rintal]

Because most “developers” don’t have the slightest idea about what kind of men attract women and how they should act to attract a woman. The only thing they can come up with is a sweet, good guy with a gigantic penis. At best, it will be a very tough, sweet guy with a giant dick. Like, a former military or some kind of secret agent.
And that's okay, because most consumers of adult games also have no idea what kind of guys women like and how to treat a woman. So, a sweet, good guy seems legit for them. I mean, he has a big dick! What woman can resist such a feature?!

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

Because most “developers” don’t have the slightest idea about what kind of men attract women and how they should act to attract a woman. The only thing they can come up with is a sweet, good guy with a gigantic penis. At best, it will be a very tough, sweet guy with a giant dick. Like, a former military or some kind of secret agent.
And that's okay, because most consumers of adult games also have no idea what kind of guys women like and how to treat a woman. So, a sweet, good guy seems legit for them. I mean, he has a big dick! What woman can resist such a feature?!

You say that like those aren't desirable traits. Sure, they aren't the only traits a man should have, but they certainly don't hurt.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Because most “developers” don’t have the slightest idea about what kind of men attract women and how they should act to attract a woman.

And so, don't let us in hanging, what kind of men attract women, and how should they act to attract a woman ?

 

[Hagatagar]

I don't get why AVN developers love to make the MC so pathetic and desperate.

Isn't it so that players have it easier to self-insert?

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

Isn't it so that players have it easier to self-insert?

Nah, too many big dicks

 

[Icarus Media]

Nah, too many big dicks

Are you enjoying your weekend so far?

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

Are you enjoying your weekend so far?

Indeed I am. I'm swapping between saying stupid shit on here, and making a sex scene where a literal goddess gives a titjob. That's a good day in my book. How's yours been?

 

[Icarus Media]

Indeed I am. I'm swapping between saying stupid shit on here, and making a sex scene where a literal goddess gives a titjob. That's a good day in my book. How's yours been?

Good. Glad to know you are filling the hole in your schedule today with something enjoyable.

 

[trc450]

People are not that deep, when you put it in sensory deprived form they will come whatever they are.

I think it is worse in other film media especially. Ever heard of a good guy with family getting upset over tiny thing when everything around him is build around exploiting him out of his money or health.

 

[Rintal]

You say that like those aren't desirable traits. Sure, they aren't the only traits a man should have, but they certainly don't hurt.

I think these qualities doesn't really matter in a man's attractiveness. This is counterintuitive. We all believe that they matter, but experience shows that they don't.

And so, don't let us in hanging, what kind of men attract women, and how should they act to attract a woman ?

If there was a simple answer to this question, modern society would have far fewer problems. That's for sure! And if I were the one who had this answer, I would definitely not waste my time on adult games.
But I know for sure that women love confident men. Confidence plays a big role. Confidence that comes from competence.

 

[Insomnimaniac Games]

I think these qualities doesn't really matter in a man's attractiveness. This is counterintuitive. We all believe that they matter, but experience shows that they don't.

Being a good guy might not matter when you're trying just to get laid, but it absolutely does matter if you're looking for a long-term relationship. You're talking as if a good, kind guy can't also be confident.

 

[Rintal]

Being a good guy might not matter when you're trying just to get laid, but it absolutely does matter if you're looking for a long-term relationship. You're talking as if a good, kind guy can't also be confident.

Look, I don't want to get into a long debate about this. Of course, a good guy can be confident, but that’s not what we’re talking about. Talk about the fact that the protagonists in most games look like spineless symp, and not like a guy who can really attract the attention of women.
I can only advise the DEVs to read women's novels. This is where you can get an understanding of who women dream about. And these will be completely different from the characters we see in adult games for boys.

 

[MarshmallowCasserole]

Look, I don't want to get into a long debate about this. Of course, a good guy can be confident, but that’s not what we’re talking about. Talk about the fact that the protagonists in most games look like spineless symp, and not like a guy who can really attract the attention of women.

There you go. Should have phrased it this way from the start. A spineless horny simp is NOT a "sweet, good guy with a gigantic penis". There's nothing sweet about it, there's nothing good.

I can only advise the DEVs to read women's novels. This is where you can get an understanding of who women dream about. And these will be completely different from the characters we see in adult games for boys.

This makes no sense. If their audience is male, then why the fuck would they conform their characters to the equally warped female fantasy.

Women's fantasy romance: female character types that women like + male character types that women like.

Men's fantasy romance: female character types that men like + male character types that women men like.

(luckily, simps are disliked by both audiences; actually there's reason to think that men hate simps more than women)