Basically the title. I've played a bunch of HTML games from here, and I'm baffled by developer choice to make them "sandboxes" that are just about entirely linear, with strict time of day requirements, and/or sequence of events. And if you don't trigger the events EXACTLY as hints (sometimes a bit confusing or bothersome to access) say, there is nothing to do in the "open world" (except maybe meaningless grinding). I don't want to throw stones at hard-working developers, and so I'm genuinely asking - is it easier or more efficient to develop? Do some think that grinding and navigating the open world adds something to the experience? Cheers for everyone who wants to share their thoughts here.
Why do so many HTML games are made to be "sandboxes"?
- Thread starter ArmMeSilly
- Start date
It's probably more that HTML (or a specific pre-built template or engine which happens to be coded in HTML) lends itself more readily to menu-web type sandbox setups and thus any clueless novice wanting to make such a sandbox gravitates towards HTML. The ones I've seen are relatively sparse on accompanying images and the text flow tends to be awful for dialogue so I imagine anyone wanting to make something closer to a linear visual novel will do the smart thing and use Ren'Py instead.
Then of course, being clueless novices, and often spitting out some v0.02 barebones demo, the product which ends up on here tends to be the barren skeleton of a sandbox with very little content other than 1 or 2 linear storylines. Doesn't mean they were intended to remain that way if the devs got around to actually finishing them.
A lot of the "life sim" styled ones also seem to be of Russian/ex-Soviet origin which leads me to believe a certain style of gameplay might be much more popular over there compared to the West or Japan. I haven't seen many "public molestation" games from outside Japan or "furry kitchen sink" projects detached from Western sexual liberation either.
Mind you I have also seen other HTML gameplay formats including 2D tile RPGs (Rogschard comes to mind) and less "sandboxy"/more "constrained text-based adventure" styled games such as Transylvania. I have also seen a plethora of empty and/or essentially linear Japanese RPGM-based games, and both RPGM and Ren'Py provoke a lot more "skip, SKIP, SKIIIIIIIIPPP!!!" reactions via dozens if not hundreds of "dialogue slides" full of cringy sex sounds or dirty talk which leads me to believe the feelings of emptiness in some HTML games might be due to the lack of an autoskip/fast forward option or a refusal to pad them with inane filler (or using RNG instead, ugh).
Then of course, being clueless novices, and often spitting out some v0.02 barebones demo, the product which ends up on here tends to be the barren skeleton of a sandbox with very little content other than 1 or 2 linear storylines. Doesn't mean they were intended to remain that way if the devs got around to actually finishing them.
A lot of the "life sim" styled ones also seem to be of Russian/ex-Soviet origin which leads me to believe a certain style of gameplay might be much more popular over there compared to the West or Japan. I haven't seen many "public molestation" games from outside Japan or "furry kitchen sink" projects detached from Western sexual liberation either.
Mind you I have also seen other HTML gameplay formats including 2D tile RPGs (Rogschard comes to mind) and less "sandboxy"/more "constrained text-based adventure" styled games such as Transylvania. I have also seen a plethora of empty and/or essentially linear Japanese RPGM-based games, and both RPGM and Ren'Py provoke a lot more "skip, SKIP, SKIIIIIIIIPPP!!!" reactions via dozens if not hundreds of "dialogue slides" full of cringy sex sounds or dirty talk which leads me to believe the feelings of emptiness in some HTML games might be due to the lack of an autoskip/fast forward option or a refusal to pad them with inane filler (or using RNG instead, ugh).
it's a skill issue. they don't know (yet) how to make freeroamers.
why do they insist on trying then? sandboxes are by far the most popular type of game people here want, and the devs are no exception.
why do they insist on trying then? sandboxes are by far the most popular type of game people here want, and the devs are no exception.
- May 25, 2017
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I know that I, personally, hardly ever play straight up VNs. Projeckt Moon, Healslut, and The Visit are the only three I've ever completed. For their current updates, I mean.
yeah. I do read VNs because I read really anything that fits the kinks I'm looking for, but given choice I'd always take the sandbox.
that said, I do believe that if you want a more literary story, like really get into the text, then VN is the right medium for that, and maybe even a KN. because you'll want that control of forcing things to happen in an exact way and order, and letting player to affect those choices would only weaken the story.
but I'm usually looking for fulfilling the taste for a kink, so the goal is the very different issue of maximizing the experience of that kink. which at least in my case requires interactivity, uncertainty and a a healthy serving of frustration. no easymode can ever fulfill that requirement.
- Jul 20, 2018
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It's quite simple most people start with the wrong question outline: "I want to make a sandbox game" rather than: "I want to tell a story" or "I have this amazing setting" or "I'd really like to see a story about X" work those out further and then look at what game mechanics work well with that story or setting. This is also known as the Ubisoft philosophy to game design.
- May 5, 2020
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They tend to be garbage.
If you want to make some simple yet "enjoyable" game, a sandbox could be a good choice since you don't need to do a great story but just add some sex scenes here and there.
A VN needs to be well written and coherent.
If you want to make some simple yet "enjoyable" game, a sandbox could be a good choice since you don't need to do a great story but just add some sex scenes here and there.
A VN needs to be well written and coherent.
- Jul 20, 2018
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There is nothing wrong with a sandbox if it fits the game. If you have a lot of management gameplay a sandbox is quite suitable for instance.
- May 5, 2020
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But it generally does.
A sandbox that actually makes sense to be a sandbox and has well thought out mechanics is exeedingly rare. It's probably less than 5 or even 1% of all games tagged with sandbox.
For every game like A Spell for All, Master of Raana, or even Glassix/Corruption/etc., you have hundreds of linear sandbox that achieves nothing other than wasting people's time.
Sandboxes need 3 things at least. Player freedom to pursue the activities in the order that they want, a dynamic and big enough "world" to be explored and interacted with, and enough content to fill out this world. And that's not even getting to the actual gameplay mechanics.
- Oct 29, 2018
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Speaking to the highlighted part. I will never understand why either. I find most sandboxes adult games just tedious click fests with a few notable exceptions. Even the games that don't require points or money or some other way of keeping score to progress usually fall into the trap of having to be in a specific room at a specific time of day or you never progress. These games usually default to some sort of hint system that says "GO HERE NOW STUPID" to help people. It's just...bleh.
I think it's the illusion of freedom people look for, which helps for immersion and makes everything more impactful. (which of course is completely removed with the easymode hint systems.)
- Oct 29, 2018
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I get that, but it has the opposite affect for me. The story progresses at a certain pace and then just stops on a dime for however many days/weeks it takes for a person to be in room 2b in the afternoon on a thursday.
Personally the reason I seek them out is that if done well you can quickly access the character or type of content you are interested in. Simple example, if I like the design of the athletic older sister with tattoos and piercings why should I play a game where I have to spend in-game months romancing the curvy bimbo mother before getting to the "older sister chapters"? Or why play a combat molestation game where enemies proc random animations on your characters, when you can instead play one where you take the initiative and pick your preferred anal action over a mix of titjobs and handjobs?
- Oct 29, 2018
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I've made the argument before that games that allow you to pick a story to progress and has no roadblocks or choices in the way of doing so should not be considered sandbox per the definition here. Free roam is a much better term for it. To bring up an unpopular mention that did it well I'll bring up Milfy City. You could just choose one story to progress and ignore the others and then go back to them if you wanted. The only sandbox element present was 'I'll go to this room instead of that room'. Other than that it progressed almost exactly like a choice based VN.
What is your definition of a "sandbox" in this context then? I gave two examples of player freedom to deviate from a linear path.
- Oct 29, 2018
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I've already gave my definition at least twice. Games that require points, money, or some other form of keeping score to progress. Like a road block of having to purchase something for an LI to progress their story that costs an amount of money that you have to earn. Or sandboxes where people are on a schedule. I.E. Specific conversations that can only happen on a specific day of the week in the afternoon in that particular room. Sandboxes are things that require specific requirements of some sort to progress. Games like Milfy City have none of that, but still allow you to choose your path by letting you go to Caroline's room instead of your mothers. I.E. free roam instead of requirements to progress.
By those definitions Minecraft Creative Mode isn't a sandbox, which is completely ridiculous to me. Especially since neither of them imply any player freedom or choice in how to pursue those goals.
- Oct 29, 2018
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Maybe I'm failing to convey what I mean then. By free roam I'm talking about games where you could literally remove all sandbox elements like choosing a room or a time of day and replace them with a list of names to choose at specific points and the game wouldn't change at all.
I'll use Milfy City again as an example. If you got rid of all sandbox movement in Milfy City like selecting which room to go to and replaced it with a list of names at certain points that said "Whose story line will you pursue next". That's what I mean by not sandbox games, but have some elements of it like picking a room. What I'm saying is that Milfy City is basically just a Visual Novel that lets you pick Caroline over the little sister instead of forcing you to wait for story beats.
Are you debating the menu/choice visualisation style here or the game's responses to each choice? Because clicking on a map can be a lot more intuitive than having to remember which end of Canal St. leads to the Mall. And in a more well-made sandbox there would be a point to walking there, because walking along the main street with your face plastered in cum might cause people to comment on that and play into an exhibitionist fetish, while going through the back alley might avoid attention but carry the risk of being assaulted i.e. catering into a rape fetish instead.
The implication of both being able to remove the act of navigation and being able to dismiss an act of travelling takes place in the sense that nothing actually happens during that time to me just means that the game uses the mechanical framework of a sandbox but doesn't fill it with any actual content. I have yet to see anyone defend or praise an empty sandbox.