Why do you like or not like sandbox games?

[tanstaafl]

I personally avoid them like the plague in regards to porn games. There have been a few good ones, but the vast majority fall into one of two categories for me:

1. Massive grind fests where you have to repeat actions until you're blue in the face to unlock a single rendered scene, and these grinds usually consist of repeated scenes as well.
2. Fake sandboxes where you simply walk around a house or neighborhood looking for hidden items like $3 under a couch before moving on.

They just aren't worth the hassle, imo.

 

[woody554]

it puts me in the driver's seat and lets me decide what to do. a good vn does the same, but only because of its sandbox qualities. kinetic novels are the opposite and remove all control, which is why I avoid them like the plague. can't stand being railroaded in a game.

when sandbox doesn't really give me choice but forces me to wander until I find the ONLY allowed continuation, that drives me insane.

grinding I don't mind at all, but I feel like people often confuse grinding with not progressing. grinding means you still progress, you're not stuck in a loop doing same things with no progress. I think it's the latter that drives people mad, not grind itself.

we often agree with most things, you and me, but with this we seem to be the opposite. I'd only play sandboxes if possible.

 

[Meaning Less]

I like games, almost all games have free-roam or another type of gameplay element. That's how you explore and find npcs to interact in the first place, unlike linear stories where you barely have control of anything and just follow along.

I can enjoy both, but sandboxes are far superior in many levels, it is almost like comparing a game to a movie.

 

[Pretentious Goblin]

They always end up fucking it up with either insane grind (Superpowered) or procedurally-generated characters that lack personality (Lab Rats 2, many text-based games). Or they have little grind and decent characters, but the gameplay is non-existent (Accidental Mind). There are probably some JRPGs that are better at this, depending on what you'd require to call it a sandbox.

 

[Douve]

Personnaly I prefer VN for the same reasons but I also like some good RPGM, when it's not a walking sim or a full linear story that should be renpy game and not RPGM. But I also hate kinetic novels.
Anyway if there's some good sandbox game that avoid thoses bad points I'm fine with it.

 

[tanstaafl]

grinding I don't mind at all, but I feel like people often confuse grinding with not progressing. grinding means you still progress, you're not stuck in a loop doing same things with no progress. I think it's the latter that drives people mad, not grind itself.

There's a game on this site, Big City's Pleasures is the name, where you get 1 point for an activity like talking to a specific person at night. To progress you need over 100 points. It's a ridiculous grind and no progress is made during this period.

Like I said, some sandboxes are done well and I enjoy them, but they are so few and far between that I just don't bother with them anymore unless I've heard otherwise from players.

 

[tanstaafl]

But I also hate kinetic novels.

Generally I agree wholeheartedly. As with sandboxes though, there are a few gems if the game is made by a particularly good story teller.

 

[Beatrix Kiddo]

Grindfest, disconnected narratives, shallow, lack of direction or terrible hint systems. There's probably some exceptions, but I don't have the time to look for them.

 

[tanstaafl]

So here's another question for you all. There are games that I don't consider sandboxes, but have a bit of sandbox elements. Like Milfy City. For the most part you can go where you want, when you want, but there are no caps or points to earn for the most part. You simply choose which story you want to progress. Do you consider these sandboxes or do you just consider them choose your own adventure VNs?

 

[Meaning Less]

Do you consider these sandboxes or do you just consider them choose your own adventure VNs?

Yes, milfy city is a sandbox... If it has free-roam it gets the tag.

In fact milfy city doesn't even get the VN tag because it has so much sandbox in focus.

 

[Douve]

So here's another question for you all. There are games that I don't consider sandboxes, but have a bit of sandbox elements. Like Milfy City. For the most part you can go where you want, when you want, but there are no caps or points to earn for the most part. You simply choose which story you want to progress. Do you consider these sandboxes or do you just consider them choose your own adventure VNs?

I consider them as VNs since it's more like a VN disguised as a sandbox than a real sandbox.

 

[tanstaafl]

Yes, milfy city is a sandbox... If it has free-roam it gets the tag.

There's no game element to Mify city though. I consider it a gray area. There is very little difference, strucurally, between Milfy City and a VN that simply provides a choice of love interest names. Sure it has free roam, but pretty much nothing else along those lines.

 

[Deleted member 15555]

the main problem with sandbox and why most people hate it is because they usually are grindfest or are a pain in the ass to play / replay, while a vn you can replay and skip any part you want easy to get to your favorite parts etc

Milfy city is a bit of a mix, since it uses the sandbox to trigger the story of each girl and doesn't abuse the "gameplay" or grind fest.

 

[Crimson Delight Games]

Like I said, some sandboxes are done well and I enjoy them, but they are so few and far between that I just don't bother with them anymore unless I've heard otherwise from players.

That's more a problem of bad design than sandbox gameplay, but I get your point.

We have a sandbox element in our game in the upcoming release, but we busted our asses for months to design, build, reiterate, and debug everything. I can understand why most devs don't want to sink so much time into an aspect of the game that isn't directly tied to lewd content; it's a ton of work to produce a free-roam loop that won't drive you up a wall with either boredom or frustration.

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As to your original question, I personally love sandbox gameplay because it's non-linear. Which means content has to be designed with that in mind, so it's usually built as individual chunks you can consume in any order you like. I prefer that style of gameplay over long linear sections where you need a guide to get the 'best' ending. The former is more forgiving, both narratively and mechanically. It also gives the illusion of a living world, despite everything being scripted (even the maps themelves don't have to be too big to sell the immersion).

 

[tanstaafl]

That's more a problem of bad design than sandbox gameplay, but I get your point

We have a sandbox element in our game in the upcoming release, but we busted our asses for months to design, build, reiterate, and debug everything. I can understand why most devs don't want to sink so much time into an aspect of the game that isn't directly tied to lewd content; it's a ton of work to produce a free-roam loop that won't drive you up a wall with either boredom or frustration.

See, this is the type of game that I could probably get in to if all of this is true. A well done sandbox that doesn't include umpteen days of skipping to complete a set amount of tasks, actual effort put in to natural world building, etc. I'll check this one out.

 

[M$hot]

I generally like sandboxes, but it's hard to find the balance. Too many options with too little payoff just feels like clutter. And that often goes paired with a few options that have like 95% of the content, meaning that people that want to see the content are still sort of forced into linear pathing.
Ignoring the grind and clunky UI for the moment, I think Son of a Bitch for example did this balancing quite well. Almost everywhere you go you can do something to progress your stats or progress with/towards a girl. There's cute girls in your home, or on your street, or a different street, or hell, a different neighborhood, at work, at school. If you were in it for one specific girl it was a bit of a mess to move around but if you got lost it wasn't often entirely pointless.

And yeah, I don't mind incremental progress (kiss on the first date, passionate kissing on 2nd date, feeling her up on the 3rd date, getting a blowie the 4th date and then fucking her the 5th date) kind of grinding, as that makes sense to me. Knowing the girl you want to seduce is more into muscles, going to the gym a few times also makes sense to me. But when you are just grinding stats and doing the same thing 20-30 times with little to no change except for the number going up it doesn't feel rewarding to overcome, it's just annoying.

Games like Milfy City and Midnight Paradise I'd rather label as 'non linear VN' because you get just enough freedom to choose which order you do quests in or you can even fully ignore a character you don't like usually. It's a nice balance of keeping progress happening and having some freedom of choice, but it doesn't really feel like a sandbox to me.

So for me it's in this order: Balanced sandbox > Unbalanced sandbox > non linear VN > Linear VN > text based only > not playing a game > Kinetic Novel.

Yes, I'd rather not play than "play" a KN. If I get to have no impact at all, I'd rather just grab one of the videos I keep in my spankbank.

Sorry for the long post, hope it at least answered the question!

 

[woody554]

So here's another question for you all. There are games that I don't consider sandboxes, but have a bit of sandbox elements. Like Milfy City. For the most part you can go where you want, when you want, but there are no caps or points to earn for the most part. You simply choose which story you want to progress. Do you consider these sandboxes or do you just consider them choose your own adventure VNs?

well as far as we use the term here, yeah that's as much a sandbox as we can have here.

but of course what we really mean here by 'sandbox' is a free-roamer or an rpg, not a sandbox. and the difference between those two is rpg has stats, free-roamer doesn't have to have. kerbal space program is a sandbox, skyrim is not. in a sandbox you can actually make new content, in an rpg you play through content made for you.

none of that matters of course because people will use 'sandbox' for any nonlinear VN where you're not railroaded.

 

[Deleted member 229118]

Same reason i like most things.
I like the feeling of control.
Of having the power.
There are many bad games out there.
Sandbox in name only.

Lets take station master:
Awefull sex scene, horrible grathic's but a great game.
Because of the control i get.
Same with free cities.
Lab rats 2 isnt really a sandbox but more a bussiness simulator.
And superpowered in an rpg.

Lifesim is an sandbox that give's me a lot of freedom(see: Power and control) on what i do.
In a good sandbox there are no right answers.
Just action and consiqence.

A good sandbox makes you feel like your in control of your characters life.
A bad one has you hunt for triggers.

 

[Meaning Less]

A well done sandbox that doesn't include umpteen days of skipping to complete a set amount of tasks

I feel like you are confusing sandbox with management. Different tags.

Of course if you don't like management you will call management games grindy, but that's because they are management games with sandbox mechanics instead of just "bad sandboxes"...

 

[desmosome]

It's not that I don't like sandbox. I just hate whatever bullshit most amateur devs are trying to pass off as sandbox. These things are not a sandbox. It's also not open world. It's almost always the repeat the same scene 10x to advance system. It's almost always linearly designed with only one place to go at any given time. There is zero sense of exploration. There is no sense of a living world. It usually feels like a bunch of self contained bubbles that rarely interact or react to one another.

That is the usual sandbox. Of course, there are some games that are well designed around a satisfactory sandbox system. I enjoy playing quite a few of them (but never update by update). I will play them once and then wait til completion.