Why does everyone hate RPGM?

[bugglebox]

What about if it had small maps so you don't easily get lost and then a "world map" that you go round with a car and it has knight rider theme music and shit?

 

[The-real-Vastitas]

RPGM games are easy to make

Sure it's as easy as to tie shoestrings and mind you faster done as well...go for itXD

modern MV game by a dev who knows what he's doing it's not comparable at all to an XP title.

and yet some people believe older versions of RPGM are superior to MV...which is as true as to say Win95 outperforms a modern OS...if

RPGM crashes a TON more

the developer is probably doing something wrong...if RPGM is used to create a 3D

visual novel

that is a mistake in itself...and if a game

really grinds my gear

I stay the hell away from it and do notice that Ren'py, Unity or what not engine based games can be grindy as fuck as well most prominent one being BB if that one isn't a thing of the past yet.:test3:

 

[redknight00]

What about if it had small maps so you don't easily get lost and then a "world map" that you go round with a car and it has knight rider theme music and shit?

If you're doing a modern day game, then it's already a minus for rpgm. If you don't plan on using combat, items, leveling and such what's the point of calling an RPG?

 

[bugglebox]

If you're doing a modern day game, then it's already a minus for rpgm. If you don't plan on using combat, items, leveling and such what's the point of calling an RPG?

Items are a must in these games I find so I'm definitely having items. Combat is planned for my game to some extent though I'm not planning on using RPGM's default combat. Leveling will be skill based.

 

[TheMann421]

I don't hate RPGM games per-se, but they have to be good for me to enjoy them.

I find a lot of the current RPGM games in development are like a VN, but they just have you run back and forth to places to get to the next scene with very little utilization of the possible content.

A good RPGM, in theory, would include some actual content for all the NPCs and locations in the map, and has a less linear story where you can go different paths throughout the map to access different content based on your own desires. Another important thing about RPGM is shit like walking speed, where I find that too many of them are limiting you to a snails pace to go back and forth between locations you've been a hundred times. Fortunately, if the game is RPGM MV you can use the cheat menu to by pass that.

My last issue is the amount of content released in RPGM games and their development schedules. Having a large map that is barely used means that I am saving my game at the end of the content, and when the new update comes up I have to load my old save then figure out where ___'s house is in this giant map, for a save that I made months ago. It's basically running to every door until you find the one that works.

 

[bugglebox]

I don't hate RPGM games per-se, but they have to be good for me to enjoy them.

I find a lot of the current RPGM games in development are like a VN, but they just have you run back and forth to places to get to the next scene with very little utilization of the possible content.

A good RPGM, in theory, would include some actual content for all the NPCs and locations in the map, and has a less linear story where you can go different paths throughout the map to access different content based on your own desires. Another important thing about RPGM is shit like walking speed, where I find that too many of them are limiting you to a snails pace to go back and forth between locations you've been a hundred times. Fortunately, if the game is RPGM MV you can use the cheat menu to by pass that.

My last issue is the amount of content released in RPGM games and their development schedules. Having a large map that is barely used means that I am saving my game at the end of the content, and when the new update comes up I have to load my old save then figure out where ___'s house is in this giant map, for a save that I made months ago. It's basically running to every door until you find the one that works.

Yeah the big empty map is an issue I hear about a lot, hence why if I decide to stick with using RPG Maker, each map will be fairly small and more detailed, if I do use maps rather than just VN style screens

 

[Yoshiiki]

Oh boy, I do see repetitive things here regarding rpgmaker, so let me say few words after working with it (mostly mv). And I have more than few words to drop as I feel that annoyance getting squeezed out of my stomach, just like that one more beer I couldn't handle and let it out the way it came.

► Memory leaks and issues with MV itself

Pretty much solved, there are still issues left, but to get most of those you need: a dev who isn't aware of the problems and designs maps/game without giving it a second thought and/or a player who tries to just break the game (just start opening/closing menu as fast as you can). Sure, MV had a rough start, but after updates a lot has been fixed. Problem lies with devs themselves, because it sure does feel like someone is not fucking reading changelogs for engine they are using. And oh boy, I see a lot of MV projects that don't have their RPGMaker updated, because devs just ignore it - don't know the reason, don't fucking care, if you aren't interested in those changelogs/updates as a dev then you are the issue.​

► Javascript is crap

So is every other language and none at all. All languages have their cons and pros, I personally think that java (other than similar name - not related to JS) is crap choice for games when you can use C#. But in the end, it falls under dev's knowledge and preference. There is some discussion regarding coding language, sure, but you can find it everywhere, not only in game making field. But if a programmer is shit - code will be shit, only after that comes the issue related to cons of language itself.
​

► Dev has no idea what he/she is doing

Sure, sure, RPGMaker is designed so anyone can start making their own game, even a total newbie. As good as it may be, if you are a dev and refusing to learn and improve while clinging to that, you are a shitty dev in my view. Don't even start with "it's a hobby" argument because it's also shit argument - people like to learn about their hobbies, because they care. At one point you have to improve so you can address issues related to bad design/choice or engine itself.
​

► It's designed for only one type of a game

So? Just because a tool is designed for one thing, clever person may figure out a way to use it for something else. It may not be superior to other tools, but may be cheaper if someone lacks budget to get other tools. But it still falls under how much you know about that tool, mostly its limitations.​

► Plugins

Oh yeah, those "mods" that can give new functions or address some issues are a bliss for a lot of RPGMaker devs. But, heh, at the same time can be a huge issue. There are many fancy things and people want to make their game "cool, yo!". At one point it can bite you back and turn your game into laggy, crashing pile of crap. But that's also a part of learning... So if it has been a year or two and it's still an issue... You failed as a dev, you failed to realize your obvious mistake. Why? Because you didn't bother to gain more knowledge about your tools. You are that clueless person who doesn't read instructions and then losses his hand to some heavy machinery.
​

► Assets

It's more than true that a lot of RPGMaker games look the same, people use default assets that they got. While I agree that devs should be trying to address this, it may require going into extra fields (drawing/pixelart) or having money to get more. But I can tell you this: If, for example, ren'py (or any other engine) had same boundle of starting assets with it (like few characters, backgrounds, sound effects, etc), you would see a lot of games looking similar...
​

Now, some conclusion.
It should be pretty obvious at this point that I am directing a lot of problems at the devs and not RPGMaker itself. But that's because many issues with this engine were fixed and those that weren't, can be avoided to a degree. Problem with simple-to-use engines (and a lot of things that have this term slapped on) is that devs often don't bother learning about their tools. Sure, project itself may move on and get more content, but at the same time, it can stagnate from more technical point of view. It's not that uncommon to see a newbie that just started, he/she should improve over time, but if I don't see it while same issues are repeated over and over and/or not solved - then boy, oh boy, someone simply doesn't give a fuck.
This pretty much concludes my little rant on the topic. Sure, I may not puked on every issue there is, but tried my best to cover most common ones I see.

 

[bugglebox]

Oh boy, I do see repetitive things here regarding rpgmaker, so let me say few words after working with it (mostly mv). And I have more than few words to drop as I feel that annoyance getting squeezed out of my stomach, just like that one more beer I couldn't handle and let it out the way it came.

► Memory leaks and issues with MV itself

Pretty much solved, there are still issues left, but to get most of those you need: a dev who isn't aware of the problems and designs maps/game without giving it a second thought and/or a player who tries to just break the game (just start opening/closing menu as fast as you can). Sure, MV had a rough start, but after updates a lot has been fixed. Problem lies with devs themselves, because it sure does feel like someone is not fucking reading changelogs for engine they are using. And oh boy, I see a lot of MV projects that don't have their RPGMaker updated, because devs just ignore it - don't know the reason, don't fucking care, if you aren't interested in those changelogs/updates as a dev then you are the issue.​

► Javascript is crap

So is every other language and none at all. All languages have their cons and pros, I personally think that java (other than similar name - not related to JS) is crap choice for games when you can use C#. But in the end, it falls under dev's knowledge and preference. There is some discussion regarding coding language, sure, but you can find it everywhere, not only in game making field. But if a programmer is shit - code will be shit, only after that comes the issue related to cons of language itself.
​

► Dev has no idea what he/she is doing

Sure, sure, RPGMaker is designed so anyone can start making their own game, even a total newbie. As good as it may be, if you are a dev and refusing to learn and improve while clinging to that, you are a shitty dev in my view. Don't even start with "it's a hobby" argument because it's also shit argument - people like to learn about their hobbies, because they care. At one point you have to improve so you can address issues related to bad design/choice or engine itself.
​

► It's designed for only one type of a game

So? Just because a tool is designed for one thing, clever person may figure out a way to use it for something else. It may not be superior to other tools, but may be cheaper if someone lacks budget to get other tools. But it still falls under how much you know about that tool, mostly its limitations.​

► Plugins

Oh yeah, those "mods" that can give new functions or address some issues are a bliss for a lot of RPGMaker devs. But, heh, at the same time can be a huge issue. There are many fancy things and people want to make their game "cool, yo!". At one point it can bite you back and turn your game into laggy, crashing pile of crap. But that's also a part of learning... So if it has been a year or two and it's still an issue... You failed as a dev, you failed to realize your obvious mistake. Why? Because you didn't bother to gain more knowledge about your tools. You are that clueless person who doesn't read instructions and then losses his hand to some heavy machinery.
​

► Assets

It's more than true that a lot of RPGMaker games look the same, people use default assets that they got. While I agree that devs should be trying to address this, it may require going into extra fields (drawing/pixelart) or having money to get more. But I can tell you this: If, for example, ren'py (or any other engine) had same boundle of starting assets with it (like few characters, backgrounds, sound effects, etc), you would see a lot of games looking similar...
​

Now, some conclusion.
It should be pretty obvious at this point that I am directing a lot of problems at the devs and not RPGMaker itself. But that's because many issues with this engine were fixed and those that weren't, can be avoided to a degree. Problem with simple-to-use engines (and a lot of things that have this term slapped on) is that devs often don't bother learning about their tools. Sure, project itself may move on and get more content, but at the same time, it can stagnate from more technical point of view. It's not that uncommon to see a newbie that just started, he/she should improve over time, but if I don't see it while same issues are repeated over and over and/or not solved - then boy, oh boy, someone simply doesn't give a fuck.
This pretty much concludes my little rant on the topic. Sure, I may not puked on every issue there is, but tried my best to cover most common ones I see.

A lot of people seem to not like javascript, I never upgraded to MV and still use VX Ace so it uses Ruby still with a lot of user made scripts already available for it, never tested its VN capabilities myself that much so far but apparently people have so idk I guess it's doable, I know RPG Maker can be used for more than one type of game as you get all the survival horror games with it (one thing I'm also working on and will probably add more to after I've made some progress with this adult game).

Also yeah a lot of games I find like, the adult games mostly, I feel I see a lot of the maps are exactly the same in most of them, they've used the default graphics and thrown them into huge hard to navigate maps and it's like a lot think because it's a porn game people won't care about how the map looks. If I do make maps rather than just VN screens, I plan to make the maps neater and smaller and definitely won't be using the default resources to do it.

 

[Yoshiiki]

A lot of people seem to not like javascript, I never upgraded to MV and still use VX Ace so it uses Ruby still with a lot of user made scripts already available for it, never tested its VN capabilities myself that much so far but apparently people have so idk I guess it's doable, I know RPG Maker can be used for more than one type of game as you get all the survival horror games with it (one thing I'm also working on and will probably add more to after I've made some progress with this adult game).

Personally I would say it's meh. C# would be much better for all of that and as a side note, I am glad unity does have scripting in C#. But developers behind RPG Maker are Japanese, so I bet there is a good explanation why it's JS in same way previously it was Ruby. More I go this way and I start shitting how mediocre at best is programming sector in there
Yup, VN/platformer, doable, especially VN would be easiest to do, even for a beginner.

Also yeah a lot of games I find like, the adult games mostly, I feel I see a lot of the maps are exactly the same in most of them, they've used the default graphics and thrown them into huge hard to navigate maps and it's like a lot think because it's a porn game people won't care about how the map looks. If I do make maps rather than just VN screens, I plan to make the maps neater and smaller and definitely won't be using the default resources to do it.

There are actually good reasons for bad map designs and both are shitty:
First is to prolong the game, more you have to navigate, longer you play, literally walking sim grind.
Second would be either dev not giving a damn/lacking skill or letting his creativity take over sensible map design. At least this one can be easily addressed: Stop playing parts of your game you want to check and play it as a whole, if something seems annoying - I betcha it probably is - fix it. And don't you dare using some methods to skip grindy parts, you made it, if it feels like a torture then why the fuck are you forcing people through it?
I sometimes want to force all MMO devs to go through their games from zero to level cap

On the assets issue once again, sometimes a little bit of creativity can already change stuff. Maybe recolor this or that, or if you are using day/night system, go through assets and change inside windows from that white to black. Mix some assets into one pile, find step-by-step guide on how to make some simple graphical effects and apply to tilesets. Wait for sale to get more stuff cheaper and such.
Reminds me how lucky I was that I had a bundle for VX Ace with DLCs that had a lot of Background Music in it, so I just used it to not be limited to basic stuff that was in MV. Shame that tilesets are different size, but I still somehow used haybale from VX Ace in MV XD
And learning things helps a lot. If not for that documentary about making Sound Effects I would never think of an idea how to make lewd sounds, who knew it would be helpful? (As a side note, if someone needs that, my profile does have a link to my blog, those lewd sound effects are there for free to use).

 

[Zippity]

Just curious why people don't like it. I've always found it the easier engine to use as it's more visual than renpy and an easier learning curve with a lot of features already built in.

Most of the time it comes down to game play style... Role Playing Game Maker (RPGM) was originally intended to make old Nintendo style role playing games with lots of questing and adventure... But when it comes to Erotic/Adult Visual Novels/Games, people want to either get busy with the erotica with minimal effort, or they want a good story to follow, leading up to erotica, without all that running around and questing non-sense...

Now do not get me wrong, there are a few RPGM adult/erotic games made that actually do without all that running around and questing stuff, but it is no way shape or form, the norm... And I'm 100% sure that there are lots of folks who like those normal RPGM erotic/adult games... But a majority of players/readers just find the cute pixel adventure game versions of erotic/adult game play to either be tedious, boring, and/or a waste of time trying to get to the story and erotic visuals... But again, it really depends on how they are created... Does the author focus on the RPG adventure part of the built in game-mechanics of the engine, or do they focus on the story and erotica? 9 times out of 10 it's the adventure stuff, because that is where RPGM is meant to shine, even if it can be adapted by taking the time to do so... Usually it's either because of laziness or purposeful design that most authors just take advantage of those mechanics, rather than adapting them to be less adventure like...

Sure, an RPG adventure game made with RPGM can have plenty of story, but it's typically (not always) presented in a top down, moving all around, sometimes quest focused, adventure game play style... Where as Ren'py and Unity and some of the other engines are designed to be more attuned to Book and/or Movie style story telling and presentation... Which works better for Visual Novels and/or story focused games... Again, it comes down to the author's and what they decide to do...

Me personally, I'm not a big fan of RPGM games, mostly because I want to immerse myself in a story most of the time, and not waste my day running around a map completing quests before seeing some story and/or visuals... If I wanted to play quest based games I'ld go play a MMORPG, which I just so happen to do now and then...

 

[bobdillan]

Because navigating maps are a PIA! (Pain In the Ass)
Plus it's like playing a Mario Game or Zelda. Kind of hard to feel like you're playing an actual 'Adult' game.

try roundscape my dude, they do it well. the actual issue is games that are poorly designed and make it hard to navigate. and they should really be a vn not a rpg.

 

[bobdillan]

RPGM doesn't allow us to free one hand, That's why.

that's not the engines fault, that is a dev issue, because you can just use the mouse :|

 

[bobdillan]

Most RPGM games look like ass and run like shit. The engine is also notorious for having memory leaks. Bugs in Ren'py games are easier to user fix than RPGM ones.

this is a dev issue not an rpgm issue. you have these noobs devs who have this idea that rpgm is an easy tool to use when it is actually probably more complicated to make a game that is good and works well with than renp'y especially since a lot of the rpgm games are visual novels and not an actual rpg style game.

Because you have to waste so much time running around. Sometimes they don't even add a "fast walk" feature. And the combat is soooooooooooooooooo slow... There should be at least an "auto combat" for easy enemies.

.... don't blame the engine blame the dev. also devs can add a auto combat feature (roundscape had one, but i sold the item cause i wanted gold). so remember don't hate the engine hate the shitty devs who think rpgm is a good engine to make a visual novel on :|

 

[goobdoob]

Hey, @bobdillan , I know you know how to multiquote. Please do that instead of 3 posts in a row.

Your answers to 4 comments are "it's the dev, not the engine". I would submit that if the engine makes it easy for the dev to make a bad game, then the engine is probably not the best tool for the job. And really, as the player, I don't care if it's the dev's fault that the game leaks memory like a sieve and I have to save every quest because I know it's going to crash soon.

The Steam page for RPGMaker MV says "POWERFUL enough for a developer SIMPLE enough for a child VERSATILE enough for any platform!" They advertise it as "simple", but you say "you have these noobs devs who have this idea that rpgm is an easy tool to use".

RPGM is fine for making a certain type of RPG (old-school Final Fantasy). It can be fine for a Visual Novel (See Black&White Photoshoot), but usually you have a dev trying to make a VN, and instead makes a bad RPG with lots of running around and fetch quests.

 

[bobdillan]

Hey, @bobdillan , I know you know how to multiquote. Please do that instead of 3 posts in a row.

Your answers to 4 comments are "it's the dev, not the engine". I would submit that if the engine makes it easy for the dev to make a bad game, then the engine is probably not the best tool for the job. And really, as the player, I don't care if it's the dev's fault that the game leaks memory like a sieve and I have to save every quest because I know it's going to crash soon.

The Steam page for RPGMaker MV says "POWERFUL enough for a developer SIMPLE enough for a child VERSATILE enough for any platform!" They advertise it as "simple", but you say "you have these noobs devs who have this idea that rpgm is an easy tool to use".

RPGM is fine for making a certain type of RPG (old-school Final Fantasy). It can be fine for a Visual Novel (See Black&White Photoshoot), but usually you have a dev trying to make a VN, and instead makes a bad RPG with lots of running around and fetch quests.

Yeah i realised after 2 replies i should be multi quoting. also i understand your point, however even if an engine is made to be easy to use doesn't mean that the engine is to blame if there are a lot of people that make shitty games using it. i get that rpgm is marketed as easy to use, which it probably is. but that doesn't mean quick to use, a lot of these devs rush things without even testing them or checking if they are any good because they want that dollar. It is a simple fact that if you don't test your game it will be shit because how can you know if it is any fun to play or balanced at all if you haven't even tried to play it. that is the dev attitude i am attacking, this idea that easy means effortless. writing is easy but it can become hard if you do it too long in one go. rpgm is an easy tool to use to make a basic level rpgm game, but if you skip basic steps that are needed in making a game, then it will be bad. like the basic step of "should i actually use rpgm for the game i want to make?" to which for a lot of rpgm games the answer to that would be no. easy and simple don't mean it will be quite and not take much time. super mario maker for example is really easy to use and simple as hell, that doesn't change the fact that out of all the possible level combinations that over 90% of them are total shit and not playable (matpat broke it down pretty well in a game thoery episode) and the same rule applies for rpgm, it has so many possible level layouts and combinations however most of them are shit. an example would be a dungeon that has rocks everywhere and you can't move. there are far more bad combinations then there are good, so to blame the engine for something the dev did is in my opinion a stupid idea cause it opens up to the idea that devs are not shit, the engine is blame it when bad level design is not the fault of the engine at all. also marketing isn't always 100% accurate.

 

[goobdoob]

Bad development and no testing isn't just an issue with RPGM games - See Daddy's Goodnight Kiss for some horrible coding and bad testing (not to mention Human characters that look like Orcs), but I can't put it down...

 

[bobdillan]

Bad development and no testing isn't just an issue with RPGM games - See Daddy's Goodnight Kiss for some horrible coding and bad testing (not to mention Human characters that look like Orcs), but I can't put it down...

i completely agree. not to mention a lot of games in general are half arsed.

 

[Legendary 22]

that's not the engines fault, that is a dev issue, because you can just use the mouse :|

Anyway thanks for the information. Whatever I think this is one of the problem.

 

[reaper6689]

rpgm the new ljn i have had taskmanager open and while playing a rpgm game there seems too be memory leaks mgfa had massive memory leaks

 

[Yoshiiki]

rpgm the new ljn i have had taskmanager open and while playing a rpgm game there seems too be memory leaks mgfa had massive memory leaks

I do not know about those games but:

You must be registered to see the links

Also, is it a memory leak or images being cached? Because 10MB image file won't take 10MB in RAM, it will take way more space.