Why Inzoi Failed

anne O'nymous

I'm not grumpy, I'm just coded that way.
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You have missed the point, stop buying from there, buy from somewhere else. Stop preordering and blindly buying games off hype and they will either improve or go bust (making way for others).
And in the present case it don't even deprive you of the product.

Don't pre-order, you'll still be able to buy the game once it is released and if it actually reach your expectation.
Don't buy all extensions, including those that are bad or useless, you'll still be able to play the game even without them.
Don't do micro-transactions, you don't need a shiny armor to have fun while playing the game.

If EA wasn't making more benefit through services than by actually selling games, they wouldn't push so much for micro-transactions and stupid extensions. And this isn't the fault of EA, they are responding to a market.
 
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Insomnimaniac Games

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If EA wasn't making more benefit through services than by actually selling games, they wouldn't push so much for micro-transactions and stupid extensions. And this isn't the fault of EA, they are responding to a market.
I don't like absolving blame here. Yeah, stupid people who preorder and buy these microtransactions are a problem, but that doesn't mean the seller isn't to blame as well. More than one party can be at fault.
 

suprisedcrankyface

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I don't like absolving blame here. Yeah, stupid people who preorder and buy these microtransactions are a problem, but that doesn't mean the seller isn't to blame as well. More than one party can be at fault.
It takes two to tango & companies have 1 obligation - make money for the share holders. If you reward them monetarily for these practices then yes, you are directly to blame. If no one purchased micro transactions when they arrived, and instead turned away from those games towards feature complete titles, do you really think we would be in the situation we are today.

Just look up oblivion horse armor, the backlash on that stopped bethsda putting micro transactions in games for YEARS (and scared the industry for along time). I believe it wasn't until WOW started making huge profits off in game transactions without the game getting slammed that it started to creep in, and then evolved into micro transaction.

If enough people boycotted wow then it would have sent another message about in game purchases, but people just started eating that up.
 

Insomnimaniac Games

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It takes two to tango & companies have 1 obligation - make money for the share holders. If you reward them monetarily for these practices then yes, you are directly to blame. If no one purchased micro transactions when they arrived, and instead turned away from those games towards feature complete titles, do you really think we would be in the situation we are today.

Just look up oblivion horse armor, the backlash on that stopped bethsda putting micro transactions in games for YEARS (and scared the industry for along time). I believe it wasn't until WOW started making huge profits off in game transactions without the game getting slammed that it started to creep in, and then evolved into micro transaction.

If enough people boycotted wow then it would have sent another message about in game purchases, but people just started eating that up.
Just because people can be taken advantage of, doesn't suddenly mean that they should be taken advantage of. If someone's wearing a shirt that says "Hit me", that really doesn't make it okay to hit them, it just kinda spreads the blame.
 

suprisedcrankyface

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Just because people can be taken advantage of, doesn't suddenly mean that they should be taken advantage of. If someone's wearing a shirt that says "Hit me", that really doesn't make it okay to hit them, it just kinda spreads the blame.
Well if the shirt says "hit me for $5" and the wearer accepts the money, then they have gotta expect whats happening next. At any point in the chain of events they could have prevented the outcome (not wear the shirt, refuse the offer), so yes, they are directly responsible for feeding into and enabling it. It would not have occurred without their direct involvement.
 

Asia Argento

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Inzoi was caught using AI for some of the development. So those who love the Sims considered it DOA...

Just my 2 cents...
 

suprisedcrankyface

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They're out of their minds if they think EA isn't rubbing their fingers trying to find out how to use AI to cut corners and costs.
It is already in games dev isn't it? Coding has been utilizing AI for quite awhile now (for simplistic tasks). And voice actors are apparently going to get screwed soon as well.

But again, if they cut these corners and the product suffers, yet they still charge top dollar on reduced overheads with an inferior product, if consumers keep consuming then they will keep shoveling.
 

anne O'nymous

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I don't like absolving blame here.
There's no absolving here, just an obvious truth: EA isn't responsible if people abuse of their micro-transactions or pre-order.

Yes, they are the ones who propose this. But without an already existing market just waiting to jump in, it would have flopped, like thousands of wanabe innovation did in the past. Take Nintendo by example, to limits to video gaming, when it come to hardware they have has many failure than they have success.

Should one blame EA for having tried? No, it would be ridiculous.
Should one blame EA for over milking the cow? Yes, but the same shouldn't forget that without milk drinker, there's no reason to milk the cow.

But blaming EA is so easier, because it absolve yourself. It's EA who released none working extensions (what, I totally agree, is "bad"), but you bought some of them without first searching to know if they were working or not...

The same apply to any game that need a zero day patch. Without players pressuring the studio to release the game, and mocking, when not shaming, studios that constantly delay the release, this would happen way less often.
Customers have at least as much responsibility than the vendor. And time to time it worth remembering it to them.
 

suprisedcrankyface

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I didn't reply to the last one because it's obvious we aren't going to agree, and that's fine. No reason to have a pointless back and forth that ends in the same spot it started, right?
It depends on your view of companies, we do kind of agree but I think everyone by know should know that companies are soulless money making machines, and if you have money in your pocket and you hand it over, you need to take ultimate responsibility.

I mean if someone got caught cheating by their wife with a prostitute, is the prostitute 50% responsible for the husband?
 

Insomnimaniac Games

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I mean if someone got caught cheating by their wife with a prostitute, is the prostitute 50% responsible for the husband?
I wouldn't say 50%, but if she did so knowingly, the prostitute does hold some responsibility for helping to break up the marriage. Know idea what kinda percentage I'd throw at it though, I'm only good at those when it comes to futa math. :ROFLMAO:
 

suprisedcrankyface

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I wouldn't say 50%, but if she did so knowingly, the prostitute does hold some responsibility for helping to break up the marriage.
The basis of business is offer and acceptance, everyday business offer you all kinds of things that you simply walk past. If you choose to purchase the goods/services then you are accepting. unless you were lied to or a product misrepresented then that is on the purchaser, I mean its literally law in the majority of the world

Business makes offer to 'world at large'
Purchaser accepts that offer

Business is forced to honor the terms of the offer
Purchaser accepts the product/services as it was offered

If you lack avenues to pursue the business if they did misrepresent to you then that's on the relevant regulatory bodies (government issue).

I am not 'absolving' business of blame, but if you buy a shit deal that that's on you. Take an adult game for example, if you made a game with Futa in it, and clearly labeled it as such, if some moron turned around wanting their money back because it has Futa in it that's on them. If you put '100% no Futa' in the description then that's on you.

If you buy a game in 'early access' then that is what you are getting, an incomplete game that is not finished. Some devs promise features that are not in the game and this DOES get them in trouble, but making a shit game with badly implement features isn't misrepresenting a game, its just making a shit game. So wait for it to be finished and see if its shit or not, or accept the gamble you are taking and that it may not pay off.

I'm only good at those when it comes to futa math.
Haha

Find the value of X
1(Futa) + X = Partytime ;)
 

suprisedcrankyface

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But it's also on the business, right? Or are you doing that thing where you say one thing and then immediately contradict yourself and hope no one notices because you put a "but" in the middle?
Will just re quote myself because you clearly didn't read this one through, I have explained when/where the business/vendor is at fault and the purchaser/vendee is.

The basis of business is offer and acceptance, everyday business offer you all kinds of things that you simply walk past. If you choose to purchase the goods/services then you are accepting. unless you were lied to or a product misrepresented then that is on the purchaser, I mean its literally law in the majority of the world

Business makes offer to 'world at large'
Purchaser accepts that offer

Business is forced to honor the terms of the offer
Purchaser accepts the product/services as it was offered

If you lack avenues to pursue the business if they did misrepresent to you then that's on the relevant regulatory bodies (government issue).

I am not 'absolving' business of blame, but if you buy a shit deal that that's on you. Take an adult game for example, if you made a game with Futa in it, and clearly labeled it as such, if some moron turned around wanting their money back because it has Futa in it that's on them. If you put '100% no Futa' in the description then that's on you.

If you buy a game in 'early access' then that is what you are getting, an incomplete game that is not finished. Some devs promise features that are not in the game and this DOES get them in trouble, but making a shit game with badly implement features isn't misrepresenting a game, its just making a shit game. So wait for it to be finished and see if its shit or not, or accept the gamble you are taking and that it may not pay off.
 

anne O'nymous

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The basic context is that EA is known for their predatory business practices and a sucker is born every minute. You and unsmiley seem to be determined to die on the hill of telling the suckers not to be born, while I insist that we blame EA for being evil. What did I miss?
Well, if it's what you understood, you missed everything... But honestly it's not really a surprise.
 
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suprisedcrankyface

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The basic context is that EA is known for their predatory business practices and a sucker is born every minute. You and unsmiley seem to be determined to die on the hill of telling the suckers not to be born, while I insist that we blame EA for being evil. What did I miss?
What makes a sucker a sucker, they suck. The problem isn't making a mistake, its repeating the mistake. And its not just me, the reason AAA games are struggling is they target the same age demographic each time (constant market easy to lure in), and when they wise up there's always a new batch. The problem in their plan is people kept playing games and now the market is a decade + of bs weary gamers and a single age bracket that might fall for it, and its increasingly called out to those who don't know better through independent media.

But really, if you buy a half finished product don't complain when you don't like how it turned out - most Westminster systems/derivatives & European law systems address misleading conduct. Your expectations vs reality are not misleading, check reality first or understand you gambled and lost.
 

Dark Lord Nova

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Lets get the BS out of the way first. Those that spread the rumor, "It's about time EA had some competition." Show me exactly where EA has a document, contract, legal document, stating that no one else can make a life-simulation game like The Sims. Truth- none. Nobody chose to do so till now, that is why. By the way, there are other simulation games out there.
Second. Quit making it sound like EA themselves are putting a gun to your head, forcing to make you by every pack they put out. You, yourself, choose or not to buy, what-ever you want, with your money. Do not blame EA for buying it right of way, when a pack comes out. When we know there are all sorts of sales that will be down the line. Reviewers to watch (though barely trusted due to being paid shills).

Third. This is off topic. None the less I want to say it. You complain about how many packs there are for Sims 4, yet if and when Sims 5 comes out, you are willing to fork over money for a new base game, and any packs for Sims 5 that will come out. There will definitely be a new Seasons, Pets, Paranormal, Family packs. What? Just how reta...What is the difference? Really? Beyond the obvious, art style, graphics, Sims HUD. Tell me. Explain. Actually I am fine, if not another new Sims comes out. Ever. Can spend my money else-where. And will not have to read or hear the same ole, same ole. Its buggy, lack-luster, too expensive, not enough game-play, and so on.

Fourth. Quit using Early Access as an excuse and crutch to defend a game that is not good by any stretch of the imagination. Yes, I know what Early Access means. Not everything is implemented but will be down the line. Basically. Still no excuse for so much lacking in Inzoi.

Fifth. Inzoi was released way to early. This should have been held back another year or two. At least. Half-backed ideas, or rather partly programmed into. No truer an expression describes this game. Big as an ocean, deep as a puddle.

Let me guess. The die - hards will answer, "It's early access"(that according to their own logic, is the be all, end all answer)and/or. "It be patched in later."

To compare Sims 4 base game alone from 10 years prior. What was is the game, right out of the box, literally, and once installed.

Sims 4 - This one being the one that Krafton completely tripped over themselves, fell flat on their face coming out of the gate. Interactions. Your non controlled sims will interact with each other, play instruments, chess, read, eat, check their phone, nap, play on the computer, workout, watch TV, and everything else......you know this be true.
Inzoi - Sit, sleep, bathe, eat. Are you kidding me? Seriously? What? Where is the.......what about......are they going to........This for me was a game killer. Taking out the one core game element is baffling to me. This would be like in a racing game, the maximum speed all cars can go is 20 M.P.H. Die - hard "Its Early Access."

Sims 4 - Sexual orientation. Been around since Sims 1. I could care less about politics when it comes to this sort of thing, personally I do not advocate for such. In a game, a single player one at that. It does not matter. I understand the world is not America. I do not blame Krafton for making everyone Heterosexual. This though was another nail in the coffin, not looking at the bigger picture. That being, those that will purchase Inzoi are not all cut from the same cloth. Religion, sex, sexual orientation, as well as other personal beliefs and experiences. Bad call, bad decision. Anti-gamer, anti-consumer. Die - hard "Its Early Access."
Inzoi - Everyone is hetro.

Sims 4 - You can choose whether or not your Sims will age or not.
Inzoi - Nope, not present. Die - hard "Its Early Access." (patched in later)

These three core game mechanics should have been 99% - 100% present in the release of Inzoi. No excuses. Anything else was/is negotiable. Everyone would have been OK, they got the roots of the game perfect, can't wait see what and how they handle the rest.

In Inzoi
Why is there a chess table and I can not play? Die - hard "Its Early Access."
Why can't I fish? Die - hard "Its Early Access."
Why do I need to tell my Zoi to eat, instead of it being automatic? And for that matter will get rid of fully prepared meals? Die - hard "Its Early Access."
Why is there a inactive boardwalk? Die - hard "Its Early Access."
You thought Sims 4 was lacking in content. Hold my beer. Wait till you see the limited clothing selection in Inzoi. Die - hard "Its Early Access."
Why is there a long stretch of beach with nothing to do? Die - hard "Its Early Access."
Why are there 3 different neighborhoods? When all that time should have been used instead focused on one? Die - hard "Its Early Access."
What is this lame crap with cats? This too is half-baked, vague, and meaningless. The intro is...not that its wrong, seems geared toward 8 year old girls.
(on a side note I refuse to refer to the currency in this game as meows, this is not cute, charming, or funny, Sims you ain't, Simoleans, Sims, First Sim City Bank, Leave no Sim behind, puts a smile on all Simmers faces, meows will never catch on, and thank EA for that)
Why when I choose to visit some other household, knock on the door, nobody answers? Die - hard "Its Early Access."
Why is buy and build harder to use? One step forward, two steps back. When since Sims 1 had this so easy to use and only improved upon over the series. How easy and gamer friendly it was/is in Sims 4. Inzoi? "Its Early Access."

The following are all gimmicks. These should have been implemented later in the game. If they did not waste time, money, programming, etc. on this carp and instead focused on the core elements, it would have been a better polished game. And for that matter, these gimmicks are lack-luster like the rest of the game, not well implemented.

You can record yourself or some such as in dancing, masturba......., cooking and so on. Oh boy whoopee. You mean animations that are already in base game Sims, without the need to use myself as a guinea pig, I mean myself. Wow, truly amazing. At Krafton, we do not make everything in a game. You do.

You can make a pic or object and put it in game 3D. Though it will look like carp. Groans. This is sad.

You can make the whole neighborhood look from normal to decerped. Why? Are you going to implement a zombie apocalypse scenario down the line? Or a post apoc one? As well as clothing to fit the theme? What a waste.

You can put Videos and pics on a billboard.... I am dumbfounded. This is what you chose to do with your resources?

You can put pics on you clothing and framed pictures, though we have not worked out to make it singular. As to how Sims 2 was able to do this in their base game. Outside mods, programs were needed for pics, for those that do not know or remember. Thumbs up Krafton. You set life simulation back by 10-15 years.

You can get in trouble with the law. This for me personally was the worst offender, no pun intended. Is designed like no one ever watched a TV crime show with Police involved. Why are you walled off from the rest of the station? What if I were arrested and did not have any money? Would I die of starvation? They could have made it to where you eventually befriend (a)Police Officer(s) and do less time. Pay for your fine once at the Police station, or on the spot. Do it more like GTA where you had to get outside the circle of suspicion. Bribe the Police. This was totally half-assed. No doubt. Honestly, what were you thinking Krafton.

You can, kind of sort of, very limited design a few clothing items. Which will be covered by shills by making it look like the best thing ever, while creaming their pants.

You can make your Inzoi more complex, by typing in the box, Is a emotional basket case and unstable around any one else. Or something like that. Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut, there is always a but, you will need a computer created by Martians. Basically something a lot of people will not have. Consumer, Gamer friendly? What the hell is that Krafton asked. All that, you are going to need a high-end PC or desktop for the game, all for nothing, due to we did not put much effort into the game. Kiss my left testi........I heard many gamers cry.

These are not gimmicks, either the following should have been left out completely or laser focused on one at a time, or put in later.
I personally have no problem with Inzoi doing and using things that Sims or other life simulation games have in their games. Its the execution.

Cleaning your house and washing clothes. OK, and.................................
You can go to work literally with your Zoi. This is meh, at best.
Yes, I know, its more or less a repeat. Just irked me to no end. The you can go to jail thing. This was done so poorly. Got the feeling that no one ever watched a TV crime drama before. Was half-assed. Why is the jail cell completely blocked off? What if i had no money when in jail, would I die? When bein a criminal they could have made it like GTA. Where you have to go outside the are of suspicion circle. Or bribe a cop, befriend one for lesser punishment. Pay the fine on the spot or at jail. (yes, I know there options to adjust)

You are just lying to yourself if the following puts a smile to your face to this day, with Sims.

Take an angry poop.
At times when just standing or sitting, your sim will just laugh. Happy to just be. Or that, yeah, I know I'm good, I got this. Damn sure of themselves. Obviously these two random animations are meant to be positive.
The culinary skill. From level 1 to 10. From dropping food on the floor, just picking it up and continuing as if nothing happened to spinning one butcher knife around another, and taking a bowl, rolling it down one arm, the back of your neck, then down the other arm. Yes sims actually proud and happy to cook.
If you took up the singing skill, your Sims can now choose to sing in the shower.
Playing chess, with their animations.
Any two Sims talking. Standing or sitting. The exaggerated body and facial animations.
And finally, your Sim has to pee. Of course instead of going to relieve their bladder, they chose to either do nay of the following instead. Get a drink, eat, play a video game, go on the computer, decide this would be the best time to develop a skill, and so on. Only to then have a bladder splatter. This was purposely programed this way, not a glitch. And we in this one instance love EA for it.

In Inzoi?

Nowhere to be seen or experienced. Of course they did not have to copy animations straight from The Sims. They could at least have a Zoi pick or scratch their ear or behind or armpit in the early stages of the cooking skill. Just saying. This is where Inzoi fails miserably.

In conclusion

Inzoi's Zois lack the charm, humor, and yes, cuteness The Sims, Sims, have. In spades. Their mistake. Chose to instead go the exact opposite route. Serious, no humor, no smiles on Inzoi players. Nobody would have criticized them for borrowing or using other ideas from any previous video games. For example, with all the American CPRPGs out there, no one complains of one game implementing some sort of character stats, level up, character sheet system from another. In fact, its expected and encouraged by players. They are trying to hard to be too different, to their own determent. Now we have seen what they are going to offer more or less, the only thing that will save Inzoi, is not more stuff put out by Krafton , instead it will be mods. And they know this themselves. They played their hand way too early. We saw what was given, and well, not exactly impressed or wowed in the slightest. Nah, I'm good, will just go back to playing The Sims 4 instead. What a sad potential waste of what could have been.

For Shame

To all of you Youtubers that were given early access and what-ever monetary amount it was to promote this game, and make it look like the greatest thing since sliced bread. You are dirty and rotten to the core. Hope that shiny new computer tower was worth your soul and reputation. Let me guess. You can say anything about the game, except anything negative. I say thee, nay. I shun thee from the realm of watching and banish thee to the nether realms. You are forever tarnished in my eyes, and all have been un-subscribed from my computer. May your souls forever be lost.
First off, it's pretty clear you haven't really played inZOI—maybe just messed around with it a bit. I've actually spent time with it, and honestly, I found it way more immersive than The Sims. Yeah, it's still barebones in some areas, but the potential is there. I'm still waiting on the first big update and the Mod Kit that's now supposed to drop in mid-June, originally supposed drop in the end of May but got a little bit delayed which I posted about it in my thread.

Second, the game's in early access—literally still in beta. That means it's not a finished product, and it's a work in progress. Acting like it's supposed to be a complete, polished game right now just shows you don't get what early access is about. Criticism is fine, but trashing a beta like it's a final release just comes off as impatient and pretty immature.
 
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