Why Unity game engine for VN games?

[Ulaered]

So I am curious. I have noticed a lot of developers deciding to use Unity engine to create visual novels.
From what i understand, unity engine provides a lot of freedom to do a lot of things but I honestly don't understand why you would choose to use it over Ren'py or Twine or even RPGM (bleh)
For most games where the art is static, Ren'py would be a LOT easier to create a bug free games.

The only reason i can think of would be the comfort level of the developer with the engine. But I still think, the effort needed to do this would be better rewarded by using an engine designed for it.

I would like to hear some thoughts on this.

Some of the examples of game using Unity i am thinking of are :

• Something Unlimited
• Screw Wars IV: a new Cock
• Bug Brother (especially this one)

 

[DarthSeduction]

So I am curious. I have noticed a lot of developers deciding to use Unity engine to create visual novels.
From what i understand, unity engine provides a lot of freedom to do a lot of things but I honestly don't understand why you would choose to use it over Ren'py or Twine or even RPGM (bleh)
For most games where the art is static, Ren'py would be a LOT easier to create a bug free games.

The only reason i can think of would be the comfort level of the developer with the engine. But I still think, the effort needed to do this would be better rewarded by using an engine designed for it.

I would like to hear some thoughts on this.

Some of the examples of game using Unity i am thinking of are :

• Something Unlimited
• Screw Wars IV: a new Cock
• Bug Brother (especially this one)

Some people genuinely dislike Ren'Py for whatever reason. My first game is being programmed and written by me, so I'm using Ren'Py, however my second game, the artist doesn't like Ren'Py at all. As a result he found us a developer that can use Unity. Our dev is a good programmer though and specifically built a unity framework that supports a visual novel style. We are developing as a side project, Game Legends, which we are also using as a testing ground for the framework so that we can better develop our mechanics for use in the larger original project we are working on at the moment. The thing runs flawlessly as a kinetic novel. I'm implementing clickable objects into our third script, so we will see how we get that to perform. And I'll make a larger branching story event as well before we go all out with our main game.

 

[Ulaered]

Some people genuinely dislike Ren'Py for whatever reason. My first game is being programmed and written by me, so I'm using Ren'Py, however my second game, the artist doesn't like Ren'Py at all. As a result he found us a developer that can use Unity. Our dev is a good programmer though and specifically built a unity framework that supports a visual novel style. We are developing as a side project, Game Legends, which we are also using as a testing ground for the framework so that we can better develop our mechanics for use in the larger original project we are working on at the moment. The thing runs flawlessly as a kinetic novel. I'm implementing clickable objects into our third script, so we will see how we get that to perform. And I'll make a larger branching story event as well before we go all out with our main game.

Thanks for the insight.
If possible, can you elaborate on why the artist doesnt like Ren'Py? I am curious to understand.
The reason I ask is because based on your description also, it can be noted that a lot of extra effort needed to be put in to make it work. And all of the tools that you are custom scripting have existing support in Ren'Py.

I have some programming background so I am looking at it from this angle.

The artist might have a concern of 'art getting stolen'. But it is just as easy to do with Unity engine.

 

[DarthSeduction]

Thanks for the insight.
If possible, can you elaborate on why the artist doesnt like Ren'Py? I am curious to understand.
The reason I ask is because based on your description also, it can be noted that a lot of extra effort needed to be put in to make it work. And all of the tools that you are custom scripting have existing support in Ren'Py.

I have some programming background so I am looking at it from this angle.

The artist might have a concern of 'art getting stolen'. But it is just as easy to do with Unity engine.

From my perspective its a prejudice born of the fact that Ren'Py's full capabilities are so heavily underused that most people don't even realize what it's capable of. So people see it as simple and not all that special. Others are strictly opposed to VN because they get bored with long drawn out plots. Our artist is not a fan of DmD, for instance. And Ren'Py is most often associated with that type of game.

Life sims can be built in Ren'Py, but the only one doing so that I like is View of Family, and it has its fair share of bugs as well. As capable as Ren'Py is, in the end, the functionality of a larger system like a life sim also requires you to code new things in or modify certain aspects of existing systems.

As for all the testing, a lot of that is just us being thorough. Rich had already built his framework to be used in this way, so it isn't like he was working from scratch at the beginning, he was planning on this. Unity does support image mapping for things like the clickable objects we are adding, and can easily accommodate menu choices, it just does this in a different language from Ren'Py.

 

[Ulaered]

Thanks for the info.
It helps me understand why someone would choose Unity over RenPy

I agree Ren'Py does have a bad rep and isnt the best engine either. They could really use better documentation.

 

[anne O'nymous]

They could really use better documentation.

The author work alone, and like all coders in the world, he's really bad at writing doc because for him things are obvious ; "why should I explain what this explicitly named function do, since it's explicitly named ?". This is especially true since the code is public and a good coder wrote what he think is "self explanatory code". So, once again, why explaining when reading the code will explain all to you ? Well, at least it will do if "you" is some guy with a good coding knowledge and who think like the author.
To this, you must add the fact that whatever the real capabilities of his engine, he want it to be used for visual novel and nothing else. So, when he explain something, he don't care about the side effect, he will only explain what's related to visual novel.
In the end, all this combined goes against Ren'py, because the few people who try to go further tend to do it badly, because they missed the five lines in the doc saying that it can be done "like this", which let think that Ren'py is really hard to use.

 

[Hentami]

If you really want to set your sites on making anything possible.. you don't use renpy. There are plenty of other routes to go besides Unity.

I've added online message boards, online rankings, realtime videos so far, not using Unity

 

[Ulaered]

The author work alone, and like all coders in the world, he's really bad at writing doc because for him things are obvious ; "why should I explain what this explicitly named function do, since it's explicitly named ?". This is especially true since the code is public and a good coder wrote what he think is "self explanatory code". So, once again, why explaining when reading the code will explain all to you ? Well, at least it will do if "you" is some guy with a good coding knowledge and who think like the author.
To this, you must add the fact that whatever the real capabilities of his engine, he want it to be used for visual novel and nothing else. So, when he explain something, he don't care about the side effect, he will only explain what's related to visual novel.
In the end, all this combined goes against Ren'py, because the few people who try to go further tend to do it badly, because they missed the five lines in the doc saying that it can be done "like this", which let think that Ren'py is really hard to use.

I have to completely agree with you on all of those points. The author has a whole documentation website that doesn't document even a tenth of the code.

If you really want to set your sites on making anything possible.. you don't use renpy. There are plenty of other routes to go besides Unity.

I've added online message boards, online rankings, realtime videos so far, not using Unity

I agree there are a lot of available tools/engines out there to accomplish the end goal of creating a game. I get confused when people re-invent wheel and it ends up being a square. I.e. people spend more time making an engine compliant to their wishes instead of picking an engine that does most of what they want and adding in the missing stuff.

Unfortunately for me, I guess I am a bit jaded with the games I mentioned (and others) where a lot more time could be spent on adding the meat of the project than trying to code the engine.

If anyone has some time, maybe they might be willing to add in their 2-cents

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[anne O'nymous]

I get confused when people re-invent wheel and it ends up being a square. I.e. people spend more time making an engine compliant to their wishes instead of picking an engine that does most of what they want and adding in the missing stuff.

It's even worse when the game itself have a lot of potential. Too many times the game is finally abandoned because the author can't make the engine. Or, when the game is finished, it's harmed by the engine which is below average.
Whatever you choose Unity, Unreal or Ren'py, there's so many possible additions, (all the one listed by @Hentami above can also be done with Ren'py, but I don't say that they can be done as easily than with Unity or Unreal). If really a creator want "its own custom engine", it's better to use one of them as base, because all the most boring and difficult parts are already done and confirmed working since so many times and by so many people.

 

[Hentami]

It's even worse when the game itself have a lot of potential. Too many times the game is finally abandoned because the author can't make the engine. Or, when the game is finished, it's harmed by the engine which is below average.
Whatever you choose Unity, Unreal or Ren'py, there's so many possible additions, (all the one listed by @Hentami above can also be done with Ren'py, but I don't say that they can be done as easily than with Unity or Unreal). If really a creator want "its own custom engine", it's better to use one of them as base, because all the most boring and difficult parts are already done and confirmed working since so many times and by so many people.

Ask someone who loves music to stop making music. That's why some of us most create our own path. It's inside us and must be released.

I've never seen any renpy game ever.. have what I listed? Not even ones making thousands a month.. so, I'll disagree with that Unless you were referring to something else in which case I have misunderstood.

I think most people miss the real truth behind why people abandon things, and it is not the engine, nor money. It is the desire. They never really had the burning desire inside to create things. I've released many games before I ever touched any revenue outlets, steam ready - before a single thought of any reason other then, I really enjoy to create things, that is first. If you don't do it for the love, what is your definition of success?

My definition of success is 'I created something I enjoy.'

But then again, I could just be completely wrong in every way.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I've never seen any renpy game ever.. have what I listed?

Did I said that it was done ? No, I just said that it can be done.
Don't forget that technically speaking, Ren'py is nothing more than a front end over Python ; just like tinker (aka Python-tk). You want to add an online message board or a ranking system ? You don't even need to add a single module. Ren'py already have few features linking it to the net (auto-update, auto-upload to some platforms and perhaps few more), and so all the modules you'll need are already here. All you need is to use them correctly.
You want a live video stream ? Ren'py already have video capabilities, and like I said the needed module to open the stream. You just need to change the way the core take its data when displaying a video.

Obviously, like I said, it will be easier with Unity or Unreal. But it doesn't mean that it's not impossible. Even making an online game with Ren'py is possible. It will be slow and boring, because you'll be limited by other things, but it's possible. I never said that it must be done with Ren'py, just that it can be done with it. It's like pure visual novel made with RPG Maker. They are possible and few people did it, which doesn't mean that it should have been done.

 

[Hentami]

Did I said that it was done ? No

I must have misunderstood you, as I mentioned I might have, and my apologies for that. Fair points!

 

[anne O'nymous]

I must have misunderstood you, as I mentioned I might have, and my apologies for that. Fair points!

No worry. Misunderstanding are things which happen, especially when people try to express their thoughts, and understand the ones expressed by others, in a language which isn't necessarily their natural language.