Would you be interested in a publisher, or do you prefer to self-publish?

[fantasia44]

Hi!

We’re a small group of guys from the non-adult video games industry, looking to enter this side of things, as we’re all big fans of NSFW gaming.

Between us we have 20+ years in the industry, primarily on the indie publishing side of things, and would be interested to hear if there is a need/demand for an indie publisher in the adult space?

In gamedev in general, it’s always a huge debate on whether or not to go with a publisher, and for adult games, the only real difference in terms of the business side of things would be the funding which, as we all know, is generally crowd-sourced, which is great for developers, as you don’t need to pay that back, whereas with publisher funding that’s recoupable against the revenue.

We would, however, be open to funding projects as well if there is a demand, but in general, what we normally provide to developers is:

- Marketing
- Production Assistance
- Storefront management
- Social media management
- Sourcing freelancers
- Keyart, trailers, & general marketing assets
- Digital distribution
- QA
- Localisation
- Business development
- Porting (not really applicable here as consoles aren’t open to adult-only games yet)

So essentially, all things related to releasing a game that isn’t direct development. In terms of the contractual side of things, that's always negotiated on a game-by-game basis, but would be a revenue share agreement, with the developer always taking the lion's share.

Now, we’re still in the early stages, but before we go further the question really is - would you guys be interested in partnering with a publisher to help bring your games to market, or do you generally prefer to self-publish?

 

[fitgirlbestgirl]

Not sure about this. 90% of the people who could use your services (provided that you're actually competent at them) don't have the money to make it worth your while. Most first time devs won't even cough up the money for a proofreader, let alone a marketing team. And the 10% who would have the money are already super successful and don't really need you.

Now, providing funding might be an interesting idea, but even there you would probably want to stick to someone who has already proven to be successful in the past, unless you want to gamble on some first time dev, but why would you, really?

This just seems like something you should pitch to specific devs you think would make sense for it and actually provide some references while you do it besides saying you're "a couple of guys from the games industry."

 

[Tataro]

You'd have to find someone who is starting a promising game and give them an offer. I have serious doubts bigger game makers like ICSTOR or DarkCookie have interest in sharing profits, considering they're making tens of thousands a month and are pretty much set.

On your side finding someone with a promising game to fund would mean risks and I don't know how OK with that you are. There are two games that come to mind as highly promising but canceled due to lack of funds,

Gates Motel by Psycho https://f95zone.to/threads/gates-motel-v0-55-p_s_y_c_h_o.23302/

And Fall Fable by Pro Morning https://f95zone.to/threads/fall-fable-v0-3-promorning.39648/

 

[fantasia44]

Thanks for the replies!

So this is what we do in our day-to-day, we sign games, taking a financial risk on them, supporting the development processs, and then recouping the investment through revshare. In the non-adult industry, we normally forecast using a variety of statistical methods, looking primarily at organic Steam wishlist growth, social media sentiment analysis, and of course qualitatively through playtesting the games.

Whilst not every game we publish becomes a massive hit, we offset this through proper portfolio diversification. And sure, part of that includes taking a risk on first-time devs, but not without doing our due diligence of course.

Yeah, we would share our backgrounds after prospective devs have been NDA'ed, which is normally the first step when prospecting and communicating with new devs anyway. Unfortunately, the other side of the industry is so averse to this side. I also know of a few AAA artists who moonlight on adult games, but anonymously. At least adult games aren't banned from Steam anymore, so I like to think that the industry as a whole is making a bit of progress.

 

[Ayno Sliqr]

I actually asked myself quite a few times when will industry professionals look towards this segment and why are there no big players making these kinds of games. Under a different brand, of course. I think that it could be very profitable with the proper approach.

The thing is that currently most of the devs do this as a hobby, I'm not sure how many would like strings attached. Looking at the rate at which games get updated, and especially at the high number of abandoned games, I would say that inconsistency is the biggest issue for devs, not the lack of founding/marketing or other help from a publisher.

Every average game will inevitably gain traction on its own in this segment if regularly updated - every one or two months. That's the number 1 rule for success in my opinion.

As someone who is looking to launch my own game soon I would definitely be interested in marketing for my game. Will I be interested in working with a publisher after I've gained traction and have a good number of supporters? I don't think so.

I've also seen reviews for games that could be good, but people get turned away by the bad English. I'm sure foreign devs would sign up for translation services/founding.

Finding committed devs in this unconventional generally hobbyist space could be a challenge.

 

[anne O'nymous]

Between us we have 20+ years in the industry, primarily on the indie publishing side of things, and would be interested to hear if there is a need/demand for an indie publisher in the adult space?

There's already few, but globally speaking the only thing that have to do is to translate then publish Asian games. Even big indie studios, like Winged Cloud by example, quickly can to the conclusion that self publishing was a better option.

[...] and for adult games, the only real difference in terms of the business side of things would be the funding which, as we all know, is generally crowd-sourced, which is great for developers, as you don’t need to pay that back, whereas with publisher funding that’s recoupable against the revenue.

Ok, I have to stop you right there, to ask for a clarification.

Said like this, it really feel like you imagine the whole scene is relying on crowd-funding. This while the main business model, used since two decades, is to hope that you'll have enough tips/pledges to payback a part of the expenses.
In one hand this business model give more interest in the use of a publisher, since you'll not need to eat noddles for months in order to pay the expenses. But in the other hand, this business model also imply that you'll earn less (you've to payback the publisher) and take more risks (you can have to pay him back even if you earn near to nothing).

So essentially, all things related to releasing a game that isn’t direct development.

And I have to stop you again, still to ask for clarification.
Said like this, it really feel like you imagine that the whole scene is releasing finished products. This while the main releasing model is progressive updates. Therefore, everything, including the release, are direct development.
And I really mean everything. Take the marketing, Social media management and QA, by example. It's through them that you get the feedback you need to tweak/improve the future updates.

Now, we’re still in the early stages, but before we go further the question really is - would you guys be interested in partnering with a publisher to help bring your games to market, or do you generally prefer to self-publish?

90% of the games come from people who have a hobby. For them it start as a side occupation during their free time, and it's only when they achieve to make it big, that they consider turning this into a career.
Therefore, like fitgirlbestgirl said, either the developers don't earn enough for it to worse it for the publisher, or they earn too much to need one. And there's not really in between. Someone making a game out of passion will not like to have someone over him that expect for results. And someone who achieve to live from his passion already do everything a publisher could do for him, and do it good enough.
Add to this that, in both case, having a publisher would probably force them to change the way they works, the way they release their game, and the way they earn their money.

 

[anne O'nymous]

I actually asked myself quite a few times when will industry professionals look towards this segment and why are there no big players making these kinds of games. Under a different brand, of course. I think that it could be very profitable with the proper approach.

There were, in the 90's.
They were partnering with the major XXX studios in order to create adult games. globally speaking, it lasted a decade, not more. The problem wasn't necessarily the earnings. They were probably lower than expected coming from the porn industry, but I doubt that they weren't sufficient enough. I think that it's more the raising concurrence coming from indie dev releasing their small production over the (at this time) emerging Internet.
It's porn, once it became also available for free the market shares drastically reduced. Indie games weren't at all at the same quality level, but they were decent enough for what they were intended to.

And nowadays what could they do ? You can turn a Fallout or The Elder Scrolls game into an orgy, and you can do it for free. Of course, their own version would have a better quality, but you would have to pay for it... There's too few people that would be ready to pay US$ 60 for an adult game, to cover the making cost of such game.

 

[fantasia44]

Ok, I have to stop you right there, to ask for a clarification.

Said like this, it really feel like you imagine the whole scene is relying on crowd-funding. This while the main business model, used since two decades, is to hope that you'll have enough tips/pledges to payback a part of the expenses.
In one hand this business model give more interest in the use of a publisher, since you'll not need to eat noddles for months in order to pay the expenses. But in the other hand, this business model also imply that you'll earn less (you've to payback the publisher) and take more risks (you can have to pay him back even if you earn near to nothing).

Not quite sure I understand the question here. Essentially, the business model of the adult gaming sector is relying on generating pre-release revenue through patreon/subscribestar. This revenue is non-recoupable, meaning that the developers can keep it after they go gold. On the other site of the fence, as a developer, if you get funding from a publisher, then the publisher will fund the entire game. You are wrong in thinking that you will have to repay funding; it's not a loan - it's just recoupable against the revenue, with a different revshare split pre and post recoup.

I've never heard about any reputable publisher who gives repayable loans to developers instead of recoupable funding. The risk is essentially transferred to the publisher instead of the dev.

You are of course right on the point that the tradeoff is that developers will then have to share a portion of the revenue with the publisher.

And I have to stop you again, still to ask for clarification.
Said like this, it really feel like you imagine that the whole scene is releasing finished products. This while the main releasing model is progressive updates. Therefore, everything, including the release, are direct development.
And I really mean everything. Take the marketing, Social media management and QA, by example. It's through them that you get the feedback you need to tweak/improve the future updates.

So you're kinda arguing semantics here, but I get your point. In the games industry, we differ between development and everything else, and the point is exactly what you're saying that yes, those who self-publish will have to take care of everything included in releasing a game, however with a publisher, developers can focus on developing the game, while the publisher handles the rest.

And no, I was not implying that the dominant model here is to focus on going gold and releasing a 1.0, quite on the contrary, the vast majority of adult games do what we'd classify as an early access release or episodic releases.

Add to this that, in both case, having a publisher would probably force them to change the way they works, the way they release their game, and the way they earn their money.

Just going to address the last point here - this is not the case. Sure, a publisher will have an in-house production team, but they don't aim to change the way the developers work; quite the opposite, a good production team will work with the developer to help them with roadmaps and milestone planning, to make sure that the production schedule will stay on track, and support the developer where needed.

Developers always retain full creative rights + IP ownership, unless we're talking about acquisitions, but that's outside the scope of this.

It's in the publisher's best interest that the developer is happy, and can focus on making the best game possible. Of course, not all publishers are the same, and yes, it's no secret that there are publishers who prey on inexperienced developers, but it's very difficult to find an industry where there aren't bad actors. A lot of the concerns you highlight would be covered in a publishing contract though.

I hope that clarified it for you, am happy to elaborate further or answer any other questions.

 

[anne O'nymous]

You are wrong in thinking that you will have to repay funding; it's not a loan - it's just recoupable against the revenue, with a different revshare split pre and post recoup.

I know that, but you fail to put yourself in your future clients' shoes. And reading your answer it's not limited to this part. You're projecting what you know of the professional regular gaming industry into the adult gaming scene, without having at first tried to understand what the said scene is made of.
I seriously wonder how many adult game developers have you talked to before you had the idea to possibly enter the market as publisher.

You are of course right on the point that the tradeoff is that developers will then have to share a portion of the revenue with the publisher.

On the Western side of the scene, less than 5% of the creators effectively sell games. It's around 95% on the Asian side, but they aren't present on this forum, and unless you install yourself in Asia, you wouldn't be in position to publish for them on dlsite and others platform they use, therefore you'll not interest many of them ; this even if they would appreciate the funding part.

This mean that they can't reverse you a share of their selling, since there's no selling. Therefore, what they'll have to reverse is a part of their effective earning, the tips/pledges. So, call it semantic again if it please you, but in such context and from their point of view, it's nothing more than a loan with an undefined interest rate and a variable monthly payment. The only difference being that they don't have the obligation to payback if they earn nothing.
And since, accordingly to your own words, "[they] can keep [the tips/pledges] after they go gold", while only around 5% of them earn at least US$ 2,000/month, they'll never "go gold" and will have to payback this loan as long as they earn something.

So you're kinda arguing semantics here, but no, in the games industry, we differ between development and everything else.

You'll say that it's semantics again, but adult games creators are not in the games industry...

Between the mandatory expenses you've to deal with by yourself (insurance, pension contribution, etc.), and the needs to keep some money aside for the day it will stop, anyone who don't earn US$ 3,000/month have to keep his job, what mean that over the

You must be registered to see the links

, near to 4,500 still have a main job and works on their game during their free time.
This have to be weighted a little since there's countries where you are part of the 1% if you earn so much each month, while there's creators that are unemployed and happy to earn few bucks thanks to their game. But globally only 5% of the creators can effectively live from their creations, and therefore can be considered as being part of the games industry.

Yes, those who self-publish will have to take care of everything included in releasing a game, my point is that with a publisher, developers can focus on developing the game, while the publisher handles the rest.

Rest that they need to handle...
Since they release by updates, and on their Patreon/subscribeStar/itch.io account, you can't do it for them.
Since past proved that to be successful nowadays you need to be present on your game's thread here, they'll have to do the social media management by themselves ; and since they're doing it, they'll do part of the marketing in the same time.
Since they aren't professional, and for most of them they don't even have past experience in coding and creation, they rely on direct discussion with the public to improve their game ; still something you can't do for them. Here, you'll argue that it's precisely your role to give them this feedback. But it's not what they want. They don't expect a professional to tell them how to do they game, they expect the players who like their game to tell them what can be improved for them to like it even more. And this you can't provide it ; you're the cold side of the medal, the one that can tell them what would improve the selling, while they want to talk to the warn side of it, the one that can tell them how to improve the enjoyment.
It's also by being present here and talking with their fan base, that they increase their popularity, and therefore their earning ; yet something they need to do by themselves.

Just going to address the last point here - this is not the case. Sure, a publisher will have an in-house production team, but they don't aim to change the way the developers work; quite the opposite, a good production team will work with the developer to help them with roadmaps and milestone planning, to make sure that the production schedule will stay on track, and support the developer where needed.

You start by saying one thing, then as argumentation you claim that you'll be doing the opposite...
You want to put professionalism into something that is purely amateurish for 95% of your possible future clients. You expect them to become professional developers, while they are part time jack of all trades on their free time. You want them to focus on their game making, while they want to take pleasure into sharing their creation with the public. And you believe that it will change nothing in the way they works.


Of course, all this don't apply to all creators on the Western scene.
There's some that consider themselves as a studio, and some that effectively are a studio. But they don't need you, they became a successful enough studio without your help, why would they reduce their share in exchange of something they already do good enough ?
There's also some that see themselves as professionals, or want to be professionals. The first one are like the studios above, they achieved this without you and don't need you to continue. ICSTOR, that have been named before on the thread, is constantly loosing patrons since two years. Yet he still earn at least US$ 7,000/month, and he earn this by doing near to nothing. I'm sure that he's happy with this, and he probably don't even see himself as more than a lucky guy that can leave out of his passion and will never have to have a regular works again.
This will those who want to be professionals but don't earn much, what to say except repeat that "they don't earn much" ? They are at their limits in terms of capabilities, period. Therefore there nothing you can do for them.

TLDR:
If someone want to be indie professional developer, he'll not make something as niche as an adult game. He'll make something that can reach an effectively big public and ensure that he'll be able to live out of his work.

 

[fantasia44]

I know that, but you fail to put yourself in your future clients' shoes. And reading your answer it's not limited to this part. You're projecting what you know of the professional regular gaming industry into the adult gaming scene, without having at first tried to understand what the said scene is made of.
I seriously wonder how many adult game developers have you talked to before you had the idea to possibly enter the market as publisher.




On the Western side of the scene, less than 5% of the creators effectively sell games. It's around 95% on the Asian side, but they aren't present on this forum, and unless you install yourself in Asia, you wouldn't be in position to publish for them on dlsite and others platform they use, therefore you'll not interest many of them ; this even if they would appreciate the funding part.

This mean that they can't reverse you a share of their selling, since there's no selling. Therefore, what they'll have to reverse is a part of their effective earning, the tips/pledges. So, call it semantic again if it please you, but in such context and from their point of view, it's nothing more than a loan with an undefined interest rate and a variable monthly payment. The only difference being that they don't have the obligation to payback if they earn nothing.
And since, accordingly to your own words, "[they] can keep [the tips/pledges] after they go gold", while only around 5% of them earn at least US$ 2,000/month, they'll never "go gold" and will have to payback this loan as long as they earn something.




You'll say that it's semantics again, but adult games creators are not in the games industry...

Between the mandatory expenses you've to deal with by yourself (insurance, pension contribution, etc.), and the needs to keep some money aside for the day it will stop, anyone who don't earn US$ 3,000/month have to keep his job, what mean that over the

You must be registered to see the links

, near to 4,500 still have a main job and works on their game during their free time.
This have to be weighted a little since there's countries where you are part of the 1% if you earn so much each month, while there's creators that are unemployed and happy to earn few bucks thanks to their game. But globally only 5% of the creators can effectively live from their creations, and therefore can be considered as being part of the games industry.




Rest that they need to handle...
Since they release by updates, and on their Patreon/subscribeStar/itch.io account, you can't do it for them.
Since past proved that to be successful nowadays you need to be present on your game's thread here, they'll have to do the social media management by themselves ; and since they're doing it, they'll do part of the marketing in the same time.
Since they aren't professional, and for most of them they don't even have past experience in coding and creation, they rely on direct discussion with the public to improve their game ; still something you can't do for them. Here, you'll argue that it's precisely your role to give them this feedback. But it's not what they want. They don't expect a professional to tell them how to do they game, they expect the players who like their game to tell them what can be improved for them to like it even more. And this you can't provide it ; you're the cold side of the medal, the one that can tell them what would improve the selling, while they want to talk to the warn side of it, the one that can tell them how to improve the enjoyment.
It's also by being present here and talking with their fan base, that they increase their popularity, and therefore their earning ; yet something they need to do by themselves.




You start by saying one thing, then as argumentation you claim that you'll be doing the opposite...
You want to put professionalism into something that is purely amateurish for 95% of your possible future clients. You expect them to become professional developers, while they are part time jack of all trades on their free time. You want them to focus on their game making, while they want to take pleasure into sharing their creation with the public. And you believe that it will change nothing in the way they works.


Of course, all this don't apply to all creators on the Western scene.
There's some that consider themselves as a studio, and some that effectively are a studio. But they don't need you, they became a successful enough studio without your help, why would they reduce their share in exchange of something they already do good enough ?
There's also some that see themselves as professionals, or want to be professionals. The first one are like the studios above, they achieved this without you and don't need you to continue. ICSTOR, that have been named before on the thread, is constantly loosing patrons since two years. Yet he still earn at least US$ 7,000/month, and he earn this by doing near to nothing. I'm sure that he's happy with this, and he probably don't even see himself as more than a lucky guy that can leave out of his passion and will never have to have a regular works again.
This will those who want to be professionals but don't earn much, what to say except repeat that "they don't earn much" ? They are at their limits in terms of capabilities, period. Therefore there nothing you can do for them.

TLDR:
If someone want to be indie professional developer, he'll not make something as niche as an adult game. He'll make something that can reach an effectively big public and ensure that he'll be able to live out of his work.

You are obviously passionate about this. Thank you very much for sharing your points of view, I appreciate it.

 

[Nograce]

I am not against any ideas here, but if you want to do this, you will need to contact individuals as fitgirlbestgirl said.
Play their game/project talk to them and see if they are interested.
I am a developer and I am interested in the idea.
I have my main job and I can only work on my project for maybe 2 days a week or so. Which I am happy with but a lot of time I wish I can just sit and develop the game. So I can give a better product and faster updates to my fans and supporters.
I am sure many indie developers think the same and could use the funding/help for their projects even if they would have to split their revenue. But it's a risk on your side because those developers are not successful like ICSTOR.

 

[mickydoo]

having a publisher would probably force them to change the way they works, the way they release their game

Just going to address the last point here - this is not the case. Sure, a publisher will have an in-house production team, but they don't aim to change the way the developers work; quite the opposite, a good production team will work with the developer to help them with roadmaps and milestone planning, to make sure that the production schedule will stay on track, and support the developer where needed.

A lot of the concerns you highlight would be covered in a publishing contract though.

Can you see you how you answered that? Roadmaps, milestones, production schedule, publishing contract.
Right now no one I know who developes including me has any of them, nor wants them. The moment someone says, hey want help................................its like, nah all good, my shit, my way.

You are not the first who has come up with this idea, as far as I'm aware no one has taken anybody else up on the offer.

 

[moskyx]

Unless you are willing to actually funding devs during dev process, and not just offering them extra services such as marketing campaigns and so on, I don't think you'll get a huge response. Like, there's this guy claiming he needs a better rig to do all the graphics and animations he has envisioned fo his game, but right now he's lacking funding via patrons so he can't develop his game as he would like to, and it's on the verge of quitting. Would you be willing to gamble and pay for that kind of expenses? That's the kind of support people might be needing here. Then of course, marketing, localizations and all that jazz is nice, but the main problem in this 'business' is to get the game actually done.

 

[fantasia44]

Can you see you how you answered that? Roadmaps, milestones, production schedule, publishing contract.
Right now no one I know who developes including me has any of them, nor wants them. The moment someone says, hey want help................................its like, nah all good, my shit, my way.

You are not the first who has come up with this idea, as far as I'm aware no one has taken anybody else up on the offer.

Hmm, good point. For context, I started my career as an indie developer, and once I started working with publishers, I really felt that it amped up my production speed by getting feedback on my planning processes. But I see your point, and it also goes to the previous discussion re: sources of funding, that devs on this side aren't necessarily in any rush to go gold, whereas in the non-adult industry, we normally announce our release dates quite some time in advance.

 

[anne O'nymous]

But I see your point, and it also goes to the previous discussion re: sources of funding, that devs on this side aren't necessarily in any rush to go gold, whereas in the non-adult industry, we normally announce our release dates quite some time in advance.

The main point is more the reason behind one starting his game, than the source of funding (that in fact derives from this reason).

When you decided to become indie developer, it was a career choice. Perhaps that you had a side job to help pay the bill at first, probably that you had a plan B in case it will not works, but your idea was to become an indie developer and be able to live from this. For such person, finding someone that will serve as publisher is natural. You're kind of starting a society that is centered and limited to yourself, and most societies are created with the help of a starting capital that generally come from the outside.

But for adult game creators it's a totally different process. Really few among them have the intent to make this their career. They all would like to be the next DarkCookie or Adeptus Steve, but who wouldn't be the next Jeff Bezos ? It's a wet dream they make some nights, not the reason why they started their game.
They have a story, discover that they are (at least from their own eyes) good enough to do it, and therefore they decide to share it with the world. One morning they awake and think, "ok, starting now I'll not just dream about it, making an adult game will be my hobby". And obviously, no one add, "where can I find someone that will help me fund this passion of mine", after such though.
Of course, all of them hope they'll make some money. Between the assets and the pieces of hardware you'll blow up, consider US$ 10,000 as being the expense for a game made with Daz Studio. Go up to at least US$ 50,000 if you use the service of a 2D artist. Using an Illusion Studio will (normally) only cost you the price of the game that come with the studio, reason why many starts there.
While they start paying from their pocket, they expect that the public will permit them to pay this back. But if it don't payback, well never mind ; at worse they abandon the game because they can't fund it anymore, period. They would be disappointed to have to stop, but it's just a side occupation and they don't really regret the money they put in it. After all, there's hobbies that are way more expensive than that and that you can't really share, or at least not this easily, with the public, like model trains by example.

Or, said otherwise, while you would have been disappointed if you didn't made money as indie developer, most adult game creators are (happily) surprised when they start to earn some money. The kind of "treating yourself when you reach the US$ 100/month", "opening a champagne bottle when you reach the 100 patrons", then "throwing a big part when you reach the US$ 1,000/month", and finally "the fuck, what I did, when you reach the 1,000 patrons".

 

[fantasia44]

The main point is more the reason behind one starting his game, than the source of funding (that in fact derives from this reason).

When you decided to become indie developer, it was a career choice. Perhaps that you had a side job to help pay the bill at first, probably that you had a plan B in case it will not works, but your idea was to become an indie developer and be able to live from this. For such person, finding someone that will serve as publisher is natural. You're kind of starting a society that is centered and limited to yourself, and most societies are created with the help of a starting capital that generally come from the outside.

But for adult game creators it's a totally different process. Really few among them have the intent to make this their career. They all would like to be the next DarkCookie or Adeptus Steve, but who wouldn't be the next Jeff Bezos ? It's a wet dream they make some nights, not the reason why they started their game.
They have a story, discover that they are (at least from their own eyes) good enough to do it, and therefore they decide to share it with the world. One morning they awake and think, "ok, starting now I'll not just dream about it, making an adult game will be my hobby". And obviously, no one add, "where can I find someone that will help me fund this passion of mine", after such though.
Of course, all of them hope they'll make some money. Between the assets and the pieces of hardware you'll blow up, consider US$ 10,000 as being the expense for a game made with Daz Studio. Go up to at least US$ 50,000 if you use the service of a 2D artist. Using an Illusion Studio will (normally) only cost you the price of the game that come with the studio, reason why many starts there.
While they start paying from their pocket, they expect that the public will permit them to pay this back. But if it don't payback, well never mind ; at worse they abandon the game because they can't fund it anymore, period. They would be disappointed to have to stop, but it's just a side occupation and they don't really regret the money they put in it. After all, there's hobbies that are way more expensive than that and that you can't really share, or at least not this easily, with the public, like model trains by example.

Or, said otherwise, while you would have been disappointed if you didn't made money as indie developer, most adult game creators are (happily) surprised when they start to earn some money. The kind of "treating yourself when you reach the US$ 100/month", "opening a champagne bottle when you reach the 100 patrons", then "throwing a big part when you reach the US$ 1,000/month", and finally "the fuck, what I did, when you reach the 1,000 patrons".

All great points, and well made. Hmm, lots of stuff for further thought - really appreciate all the responses to this!

 

[MeLovely Games]

I'm very interested in this. However, I need more information... what's the typical contract like? Do you have a generic template we can read? And what's the typical revenue share %?

About these 2 points:

- Storefront management
- Social media management

Do developers still get to own the digital distribution + storefront + social media accounts? Or does it have to be published through the publisher's account?

Everything on your list looks good, maybe option to port to VR?

 

[fantasia44]

I'm very interested in this. However, I need more information... what's the typical contract like? Do you have a generic template we can read? And what's the typical revenue share %?

About these 2 points:


Do developers still get to own the digital distribution + storefront + social media accounts? Or does it have to be published through the publisher's account?

Everything on your list looks good, maybe option to port to VR?

We actually haven't ported to VR from a flat game yet, but we are in the VR space.

Yup, developers normally own the social media accounts, we just help with content creation. Devs can own the storefronts as well, but we normally set that up, pay the app fees etc. as we're very used to the backends of the various storefronts, and they can be a biiit convoluted.

We have a typical contract for the non-adult side of things, but haven't had legal draft one up for this side yet. Wanted to gauge if there was even an interest first Revshare depends on a lot of factors, on the non-adult side of things, the industry standard is 60/40 in the developer's favor. Haven't given too much thought into this yet, as it really is project dependant, and would also depend a lot on the amount of funding needed + whether or not to go early access/episodic or do a traditional route to market

Feel free to DM me if you want to have a chat about your project.

 

[Deleted member 1121028]

I didn't read in extenso tho, but how much money you are willing to put on the table? Everything else is nothing-burger.
I guess people really into publishing should have already targeted few devs and build some kind of portfolio or a credible business model?

Feel free to DM me if you want to have a chat about your project.

Peeps, remember to ask where is the money (and fold at the first redflag o/).

 

[exer]

Unfortunately, there isn't really a place for a publisher in the adult games world. I think it would greatly benefit from it, but there just isn't enough money in game sales and the way it works right now just isn't suited to a publisher. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for marketing/social media management though. I'll try to explain based on my experiences and what I understand.

Most of the money made from adult games are through Patreon, rather than from sales like normal games. In that case alone, most of what you're offering kind of becomes pointless. There wouldn't be a need for someone to be managing a storefront for them or anything related to a release. There wouldn't be need for a big marketing campaign, and there's not many places to show trailers for an adult game anyway. Also, since porn streaming sites are already super overrun with those fake game trailers, it would be hard to make something seem legitimate. Anyway, since money isn't really made from actual game sales, that also renders services like localization kind of pointless. There's no reason to spend money for that kind of service if you can't make money off of it.

Marketing a Patreon while a game is in development could be helpful, but a project is really only going to have the money to pay for that kind of service after they're already successful and wont really need help marketing because they'll already have a sizeable Patreon. These bigger and more successful projects already have their own artists too, and have no need for things like promotional materials. They already have something that works and even if they did plan on doing a full paid release, it's unlikely they'd be willing to cut a deal.

When it comes to things like QA, it's honestly not that important in the adult games world. It's essentially expected for QA to be a Patreon benefit.

Then there's also the fact that most people simply don't care to release their game on storefronts. Whether it be because they're using stolen DAZ assets/Honey Select/music/whatever else, and simply can't, or because they just wanted to release it for free. A big part of that is because most people just don't pay for adult... anything these days. Between the numerous free tube sites and sites like F95, I know I've never paid for an adult movie or game (at least outside of Japan), and there's no real reason to. A quick google search or a few minutes here gives me more content than I could ever get through. That's outside of supporting Patreons and buying from Japanese artists though. I'm more than happy to support a project when I've got the extra money, because I know how helpful it is. Because of all of the choice, no one is ever forced to though. Unlike the normal game industry. Which is why Patreons are the standard for adult games. So even if you do get people on board, you aren't going to be making much of anything off of sales.

Lastly, the unfortunate reality is that the most successful adult games are the ones with drawn out development. I can name at least 5 that have been in development for more than 5 years and are nowhere near being finished, and are all making more than $10,000 a month (some are hidden now, but they were well above that before). Many aren't going to want production help, because that's going to cut into the money. Since adult games make their money through Patreon, rather than from sales, getting games out faster isn't what everyone wants. I'd wager that most of the biggest games want the opposite. Since once a game is released, there's going to be a drop off in Patreon money.


However, that's all focusing on people who already have successful Patreons. There is a potential way to get this to work.


If you really want to get into adult games with this kind of a thing, and want to be successful, you're going to have to take some considerable risks. As well as change up what you do. In short, you would need to get in with newer developers and help them grow. Ones that aren't proven and that aren't successful yet. That's why it would be so risky. Since sales aren't how adult games make money, you could instead take a percentage from the Patreon. Essentially, you'd have to take the same risk the developers do and just do the work and hope it pays off though.

To make that work, you would need to shift your focus from being a publisher, and being more about just marketing and social media management. In this case, they would largely be the same thing though. Instead of making trailers and putting the game up on storefronts when it's done, and other normal publisher stuff, you would just manage the Twitter, Patreon, and game threads like here on F95.

The silver lining in that situation is that, in addition to being way less work, if you and your people are good at what you do, and can develop an eye for spotting talent, you'll be able to make a lot of money this way. And eventually, it wont be nearly as risky. To make it somewhat less risky, you could also only stay with a client for X amount of time until deciding it's not worth it. It wouldn't have to be like a publishing deal where if it flops, you're stuck with it forever.
For fun, let's say you're taking something like 25% from the Patreon of a dozen different games. You have 2 of them that are flops and make basically nothing, but then you have 9 that all make around $5,000 a month, then one that really took off and is making around $20,000 a month. Which would net you around $16,250 a month. My best guess is that one person would be able to handle around 6 at a time, if not more. So in that case you should be able to afford to pay about $3,000 a month for the people managing the pages, which from what I understand is fairly normal for a social media manager, and then have another $10,250 a month for you, whoever else is just managing the managers (if you're not the ones doing the marketing and social media management yourselves) and whatever company expenses. That's obviously pretend numbers and you'd be able to negotiate whatever percentage and number of clients to take on you wanted, but you get the idea. I stuck with lower figures, but ones that appear to be attainable based on Patreons I've seen and supported. In this case, everyone is happy. The developer will be able to make money while just having to worry about developing the game, you'll be able to make money doing a portion of what you normally do, and as a bonus, adult games in general will be able to grow and possibly move towards being more professional and like more of a real industry.


I think it's a great idea to have some kind of producer/marketing company for adult games, and I think that kind of thing could be successful. I know I'm terrible at marketing and advertising my projects. I don't really know how to do it effectively and I don't really like doing it in general. So I just don't most of the time. I instead focus on making games and hope people end up enjoying them. But I would happily give up a percentage to get someone to do it for me. I'm sure there's a lot of other small developers here that have the same problem.
Honestly, I would love to have a publisher. To be able to get funding to just make a game without having to rely on stuff like Patreon sounds amazing. I just don't think it would be very profitable though, especially for the publisher. So unfortunately, I don't think there's a place for publishers in the adult games community right now. Maybe one day though.